Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
--- Robert Huff [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: L Goodwin writes: The USB drive option is interesting. I know thumb drives are not considered a good long-term storage solution, but for daily backups, I could rotate a couple of 2GB+ USB drives (until data grows too large). And if you've been retiring undersize IDE drives to a back room Yes, I have a few of those, but I'm looking for an offsite storage solution. Good idea, though! __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
Olivier Nicole writes: USB is a nice and cheap solution, as long as you don't have too much data to back-up every time. If you have 40GB per day, that would take 10 hours... a bit too much :) My setup (dump - USB 2) processes 22.8 Gbytes in a hair over 5 hours. The average throughput is ~2 myytes/sec ... which is _way_ slower than it should be. (The problem has not been reporduced on other machines.) I'd prefer to be running of the 80 mbyte/sec LVD SCSI card. However, that configuration (tape drive, cartridges, cables) would start at $1500 and up. This has so far cost less than $200, with an incremental cost of $50 per week of backup. Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:01:17PM -0700, L Goodwin wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) Too small these days. b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) Usefull, but you have to store them correctly or they won't last very long. c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) No experience with that, sorry d) USB drive (disks are cheap) This is what I currently use to back up my system. After mounting the (geli encrpyted) disk I start a script that performs a dump(8) of all ufs filesystems, compresses them with bzip2 and writes them to the external drive. If you want a non-os specific data format you can use tar. Start with a full backup, and after that use the --newer option, so every subsequent backup only stores the files that have changed since the last backup. Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Dump works best for UFS filesystems. Tar handles normal files well, but might have issues with device files, flags and ACLs, things that dump does handle. Copying the data straight to a FAT32 filesystem and you'll loose things like ownership and permission. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? Yes, if the client in question has access to all the data on the samba share. but automation on windows is much more difficult than on FreeBSD. If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? Not if you're using dump. Winzip can handle gzipped tarfiles. CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. CON: cannot be automated properly. CON: windows programs won't handle things like UIDs and permissions properly. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). PRO: Can be don with minimal user intervention. PRO: Can store all the attributes of the native file system. CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. I think a detachable USB disk is very cost effective. A 500GB external Seagate drive is $153 at newegg. You'd buy a couple and rotate them. A tape drive alone would cost more. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. In that case a 500 GB backup disk could hold years of weekly full backups. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). Media durability is an issue. I've seen test in magazines where more than half the discs contained a lot of errors or were unusable after two years. I've also seen optical drives fail in under two years depending on the environment. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. Mount an external USB, and create a cron job to copy the data over to it every night. No user action whatsoever required. Make sure that the external disk is not visible as a Samba share. Swap out the external disk for another one every week or month (this requires user intervention, but it could be scripted) and store the one not in use in a safe or off-site. How often you back up depends on how much work you're willing to loose or redo, and how easy it is to replace/recreate the data . Too much backups fills up cheap disk or DVD space. Not enough backups can destroy your client's business. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpoAa2u7vejT.pgp Description: PGP
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
It's true, but amanda allows for a holding disk that the backups get sent to, so the dumps themselves don't take so long. So, the other machines that are being backed up, and do the real work in house, don't take any longer then when I had a tape drive on the backup host. From the holding disk on the backup machine they get dumped to the USB external disk drive and it's not real important how long that takes, it's true you would want it done before the next backup started though. I don't use the backup machine for too much more then just doing the backups. It's an old relatively slow desktop machine that was put out of use when we got some upgraded machines. The stats from amanda show that things have settled down to average backing up something like 10 GB a day and that seems to take anywhere from 3 to 5 hours which isn't a problem. Thanks Chris Kottaridis([EMAIL PROTECTED]) =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-= On Tue, 2007-04-24 at 12:08 +0700, Olivier Nicole wrote: Since tapes get expensive and disks are relatively cheap I went out and bought a 300 GB USB disk drive for about $90.00. Right now I have amanda configured to back things up onto 6 virtual tapes each of about 40GB, USB is a nice and cheap solution, as long as you don't have too much data to back-up every time. If you have 40GB per day, that would take 10 hours... a bit too much :) Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:01:17PM -0700, L Goodwin wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) Generally, CD doesn't hold enough to be practical for any modern sizeable file system. DVD is a little better, but still only a drop in a many GB file system. My suggestion is to use either tape or a large external hard drive. Since you are mirroring, maybe the hard drive would be a good choice. You will be less concerned about recovery of immediate errors than about a systematic rotating archive.Buying about 5 large external drives is currently cheaper than buying a quality tape system, although handling the tapes can be easier and more flexible, plus easier to deal with continuation media if you have a very large filesystem. I would choose either LTO or DLT tape if you go that route. The DDS (DAT) tape just is not robust enough to handle a real server environment. It is OK for occasional copies to transfer data somewhere or save something off - providing you check if the tape is readable, but not hard core server backups. But, I have had no problem with either DLT or LTO. They are fast and reliable and have good capacity and can be set up so a dump can span more than one unit if necessary.If you are running a serious server, the increased cost will disappear in the the increased reliability and usability. I just noticed below that you indicated a 1GB backup that gradually grows. (They always grow faster than expected). Well, DLT or LTO would be overkill for that and also be very expensive. But it is too big already to be practical for CD. Although DVD would currently handle it, you would grow out of it soon. I think the large external hard drive on USB might be your best bet for now - see more comments below. Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Dump is the way to go. It works well, is already on the system and handles all types of files, links and permissions, ownerships, flags, etc correctly.Almost every other system has something missing somewhere. You can use dump regardless of which media you choose. There is no prepreparation needed for tapes.If you use a large hard disk, then you do need to fdisk, bsdlabel and newfs on it to create a file system. Then you can write the dumps to an ordinary file on the filesystem you create on the disk. If it is large enough you can write more than one dump. You can just rm old/obsolete dumps without any other mucking around. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. Sounds like that would be a separate issue. Do an extra backup from the Windows point of view if you want as some sort of interim support. But backup the whole system of data via the UNIX/FreeBSD side. That will allow you to put things completely back the way you want it most easily. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. Since extra high capacity hard drives are almost as cheap now as one or two large DLT or LTO tapes (let alone the drives), that 'multi-drive' solution may be your most economical method. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. Well, even a single extra large capacity USB hard drive will be less than buying an extra DVD writable drive and give you room for a couple of hundred 1GB size backups. jerry 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
Thanks, Olivier. The lack of a Recycle Bin for Samba shares had not occured to me. I guess I should have each Windows client backup of all files modified that day to a space on the local drive... Olivier Nicole [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) For years I have been using Amanda (in the ports) to backup any servers, including Samba server, as well as some disks from PC under Windows, saving the data on a SLR 100 (Tandberg) tape. Tape dirve is expensive (and maybe out of production), tapes are not cheap, but they are reliable. Now days I would choose LTO technology I beleive. At any cost I would avoid any kind of DAT format: it acheives the capacity by high compression of the data on the tape and so the reliability is really an issue, plus the rotating head wears the tape much uch faster than any linear reccording technology. Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. I never looked at that part. I am using tar because it is a very universal format: the next server could be a Linux box, the tapes would still be readable, compared to dump that tend to be specific for each operating system. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Of course it is possible: any file that the Windows machine can access through the network, it could back-it up. Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? Except if your tape drive is dead, fixing the server is really a matter of a couple of hours: at least fixing the server enough so you can restore something from a backup tape. I once was even able to restore something from booting the server from the recovery boot... I would consider it a highly bad luck that the server is dead and at the very same time you need to do a restore. These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a 1) multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups 1) (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several 1) backups to same disc/tape preferred. Tape is expensive. My future choice, when I have to replace the existing backup server is virtual tapes on some big hard disk (500GB SATA type of disk). Only thing to be found is the way to swap the hard drives. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data 2) occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at 2) a modest rate. Then install one disk and use some kind of virtual tapes on it. But that would not allow off site storage unless your disk can be moved. According the size of the data, you may consider USB connection. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not 3) too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf 4) space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except 5) if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive 6) that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't 6) have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or 7) monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The 7) RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in 7) leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, 7) rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. RAID 1 will not protect you against accidentally erasing a file. And even though you informed your customer that the back-up is there just in case of major system crash and does not cover the user mistakes, they will come back to you asking to restore a file that they deleted (Samba does not offer recycle-bin). So you can still think about daily
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
Forgot to mention that off site storage is a priority. The USB drive option is interesting. I know thumb drives are not considered a good long-term storage solution, but for daily backups, I could rotate a couple of 2GB+ USB drives (until data grows too large). Thanks to all for your experience, ideas and suggestions! Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, Apr 23, 2007 at 05:01:17PM -0700, L Goodwin wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) Too small these days. b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) Usefull, but you have to store them correctly or they won't last very long. c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) No experience with that, sorry d) USB drive (disks are cheap) This is what I currently use to back up my system. After mounting the (geli encrpyted) disk I start a script that performs a dump(8) of all ufs filesystems, compresses them with bzip2 and writes them to the external drive. If you want a non-os specific data format you can use tar. Start with a full backup, and after that use the --newer option, so every subsequent backup only stores the files that have changed since the last backup. Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Dump works best for UFS filesystems. Tar handles normal files well, but might have issues with device files, flags and ACLs, things that dump does handle. Copying the data straight to a FAT32 filesystem and you'll loose things like ownership and permission. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? Yes, if the client in question has access to all the data on the samba share. but automation on windows is much more difficult than on FreeBSD. If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? Not if you're using dump. Winzip can handle gzipped tarfiles. CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. CON: cannot be automated properly. CON: windows programs won't handle things like UIDs and permissions properly. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). PRO: Can be don with minimal user intervention. PRO: Can store all the attributes of the native file system. CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. I think a detachable USB disk is very cost effective. A 500GB external Seagate drive is $153 at newegg. You'd buy a couple and rotate them. A tape drive alone would cost more. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. In that case a 500 GB backup disk could hold years of weekly full backups. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). Media durability is an issue. I've seen test in magazines where more than half the discs contained a lot of errors or were unusable after two years. I've also seen optical drives fail in under two years depending on the environment. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. Mount an external USB, and create a cron job to copy the data over to it every night. No user action whatsoever required. Make sure that the external disk is not visible as a Samba share. Swap out the external disk for another one every week or month (this requires user intervention, but it could be scripted) and store the one not in use in a safe or off-site. How often you back up depends on how much work you're willing to loose or redo, and how easy it is to replace/recreate the data . Too much
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
On Tue, Apr 24, 2007 at 01:03:34PM -0700, L Goodwin wrote: Forgot to mention that off site storage is a priority. Please don't top-post. The USB drive option is interesting. I know thumb drives are not considered a good long-term storage solution, but for daily backups, I could rotate a couple of 2GB+ USB drives (until data grows too large). I would get one with a real harddisk instead of a thumbdrive. More capacity and probably a longer life. Using USB drives, there might be a way to completely automate backups. Using devd(8) it should be possible to detect that one of your backup disks is being plugged in. This can then start a script to mount the disk, perform the backups, unmount it and give the user a signal on the console, or audible, that he can take the USB drive out. If you're going to use thumbdrives, think about security. Such small devices are easily lost or stolen. Either encrypt the individual backups with programs like ccrypt(1) or gnupg(1), or use an encrpyted filesystem layer like geli(8). Thanks to all for your experience, ideas and suggestions! You're welcome. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpxXBEDoPUlf.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
L Goodwin writes: The USB drive option is interesting. I know thumb drives are not considered a good long-term storage solution, but for daily backups, I could rotate a couple of 2GB+ USB drives (until data grows too large). And if you've been retiring undersize IDE drives to a back room Robert Huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
On 23/04/07, Wood, Russell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-freebsd- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Marsh Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2007 8:21 AM To: L Goodwin Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers On 4/24/07, L Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. I dump (man dump) my array to a spare 250GB disk within my server. Indeed. A few cheap (maybe even free) drives are probably at least as reliable as an 80usd DLT tape. Also faster. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. Thanks! - Ahhh...imagining that irresistible new car smell? Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
On 4/24/07, L Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. Thanks! Hey, We had a similar issue trying to figure out what type of media to backup to... Tapes are great when they work. You need to store them properly, make sure the tapes aren't old and worn either. I'd only do once off, for archiving purposes, backups to DVD. We tried to try a 16 tape LTO2 autoloader, but after three dead on arrivals we scrapped that idea. We use Bacula (it's open source and in the ports) to backup to hard drive mirrors, I think it's bloody wonderful in comparison to some of the windows based tape software thats out there. I'd use bacula to either do a backup to hard drive and use virtual media that gets rotated, or buy a new set of tapes and maybe a new tape drive and have bacula manage that... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
At 07:01 PM 4/23/2007, L Goodwin wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. Thanks! You already have RAID 1 so you need more of an offline, removable media solution. You need to choose between CD, DVD, or tape. That is a cost and capacity issue, you need to do some price comparisons and choose what fits your budget. You can backup and restore all files UNIX and Samba/windows from the FreeBSD but not vice-versa. You would do well to setup some automated task, as in a cron job to do the backups. You will need a human to change whatever media you choose, and move it off-site occasionally too. For FreeBSD, be sure to backup /etc /usr/local/etc. You can use dump/restore, tar, pax, cpio, or one of the ports such as bacula. -Derek -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. MailScanner thanks transtec Computers for their support. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner-freebsd- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Daniel Marsh Sent: Tuesday, 24 April 2007 8:21 AM To: L Goodwin Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers On 4/24/07, L Goodwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. I dump (man dump) my array to a spare 250GB disk within my server. - Russell DISCLAIMER: Disclaimer. This e-mail is private and confidential. If you are not the intended recipient, please advise us by return e-mail immediately, and delete the e-mail and any attachments without using or disclosing the contents in any way. The views expressed in this e-mail are those of the author, and do not represent those of this company unless this is clearly indicated. You should scan this e-mail and any attachments for viruses. This company accepts no liability for any direct or indirect damage or loss resulting from the use of any attachments to this e-mail. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) For years I have been using Amanda (in the ports) to backup any servers, including Samba server, as well as some disks from PC under Windows, saving the data on a SLR 100 (Tandberg) tape. Tape dirve is expensive (and maybe out of production), tapes are not cheap, but they are reliable. Now days I would choose LTO technology I beleive. At any cost I would avoid any kind of DAT format: it acheives the capacity by high compression of the data on the tape and so the reliability is really an issue, plus the rotating head wears the tape much uch faster than any linear reccording technology. Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. I never looked at that part. I am using tar because it is a very universal format: the next server could be a Linux box, the tapes would still be readable, compared to dump that tend to be specific for each operating system. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Of course it is possible: any file that the Windows machine can access through the network, it could back-it up. Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? Except if your tape drive is dead, fixing the server is really a matter of a couple of hours: at least fixing the server enough so you can restore something from a backup tape. I once was even able to restore something from booting the server from the recovery boot... I would consider it a highly bad luck that the server is dead and at the very same time you need to do a restore. These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a 1) multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups 1) (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several 1) backups to same disc/tape preferred. Tape is expensive. My future choice, when I have to replace the existing backup server is virtual tapes on some big hard disk (500GB SATA type of disk). Only thing to be found is the way to swap the hard drives. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data 2) occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at 2) a modest rate. Then install one disk and use some kind of virtual tapes on it. But that would not allow off site storage unless your disk can be moved. According the size of the data, you may consider USB connection. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not 3) too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf 4) space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except 5) if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive 6) that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't 6) have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or 7) monthly or ad-hoc, but daily is probably out of the question. The 7) RAID 1 array is expected to provide some degree of protection in 7) leieu of daily backups. Plan to back up all documents each time, 7) rather than implement a two-tiered backup process. RAID 1 will not protect you against accidentally erasing a file. And even though you informed your customer that the back-up is there just in case of major system crash and does not cover the user mistakes, they will come back to you asking to restore a file that they deleted (Samba does not offer recycle-bin). So you can still think about daily incremental back-up. Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
L Goodwin writes: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. Weird as it sounds to be saying this ... 1 Gbyte is _nothing_. Buy an external hard drive that connects via USB 2.0. (100 Gbyte would last three months.) Practical transfer speed of, say, 15 Mbytes/sec means a dump will take less than 15 minutes. As for inter-OS software operability - no idea. Robert huff ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
My decade old Loader Express with ten 40 GB tapes finally died a couple of months ago. So, I just switched over to a different style. I don't know how applicable it is to your situation. I have used amanda for years to manage tape drives. In the latest version they support backup to hard disk. They have a disk-chg script that acts like it's changing a tape in a tape changer when really it's just pointing at a different directory on the disk. It ends up writing what otherwise would be on a tape to a file in that directory. But, it looks like a tape to amanda. Since tapes get expensive and disks are relatively cheap I went out and bought a 300 GB USB disk drive for about $90.00. Right now I have amanda configured to back things up onto 6 virtual tapes each of about 40GB, which matches the tape capacities I was using. The virtual tapes exist on the 300 MB USB disk drive. That all seems to be working. So, I am backing up 5 days a week onto a backup cycle of 6 tapes. I could mount and unmount the USB disk before and after the backups to make them a little more inaccessible when not performing a backup, but at the moment I don't. I also have an unused 8 port Power control unit that can be controlled by network or serial port. So, eventually I plan on connecting the USB disk drive to this power control unit and then modifying the disk-chg script to turn on the power to the USB disk and then mount it. Once the backup is done I'll unmount the disk drive and turn the power to the USB disk drive off via the APC control. So, my backup device will only be on-line during the backup itself. I can grow this by adding more external USB devices and modifying the disk-chg script to turn on the correct USB drive and mount it so I can have up to 8 USB devices, assuming I use a 4 port USB adaptor since the hardware only has 2 USB ports. I can add disks depending on how far back I want to save data. Each 300 GB should be able to handle a weeks worth of data at the current capacities. Anyway, to just get the 1 week depth was an ~$90.00 solution for me, the best I could find for a refurbished tape drive for my old tape changer was ~$600.00, and I can store things in the way I have been used to for that last decade, using amanda. Since I have a spare APC controller around I can expand on this at ~ $90.00 per week of backup desired, once I've provided a little software glue. Just a thought. Thanks Chris Kottaridis([EMAIL PROTECTED]) === On Mon, 2007-04-23 at 17:01 -0700, L Goodwin wrote: I need to implement an automated backup facility on the FreeBSD file server I'm setting up for a client. It will have a software RAID 1 Mirror/Duplex that is made available to Windows XP SP2 and Windows Vista Home Premium users as a Samba share. I also plan to create system recovery disks (disk images) for the server and each Windows client. This leaves backing up user data on some schedule. I've read Backup Basics, but have some questions: Which is best backup media for a FreeBSD file server, based on known issues (or lack of) with each format? I need to decide between the following formats: a) CD-R (or CD-RW?) b) DVD-R (or CD-RW?) c) Streaming tape (which format/standard?) Which is the best method for backing up data files on a Samba sharer FreeBSD? Handbook says dump is the only way to go. Is it possible to have a Windows client perform the backup files on the Samba share to a local Re-Writable CD or DVD drive? If the answer is YES, what are the pros and cons of a UNIX-based (data-file only) backup vs. a Windows-based one? Please add to my list of pros and cons: Windows Backup: PRO: Backup can be restored to a Windows drive while server is being fixed? CON: Users might forget to replace backup disk after using optical drive. FreeBSD Backup: PRO: Out of sight from users (server is in a storeroom). CON: Cannot restore backup to a Windows disk while server is being fixed? These are some of my other considerations: 1) Cost is a primary concern. Budget does not allow for a multi-drive solution. Best if client does not handle backups (change discs/tapes), so a solution that permits storing several backups to same disc/tape preferred. 2) I only want to back up user data (not the OS). Current user data occupies less than 1GB of drive space, and is expected to grow at a modest rate. 3) I do NOT have a writable CD or DVD drive (but can buy one if not too spendy). 4) I have an external SCSI connection, but very little shelf space. 5) The server does not have room for another internal device (except if swapping out the existing ATAPI CD-ROM drive). 6) I have an Ecrix Corporation Model VXI-1A SCSI internal tape drive that I assume is obsolete (comments appreciated). Anyway, I don't have room for it. 7) Have not yet settled on a backup schedule. May be weekly or monthly or ad-hoc, but
Re: Backup media choices for FreeBSD servers
Since tapes get expensive and disks are relatively cheap I went out and bought a 300 GB USB disk drive for about $90.00. Right now I have amanda configured to back things up onto 6 virtual tapes each of about 40GB, USB is a nice and cheap solution, as long as you don't have too much data to back-up every time. If you have 40GB per day, that would take 10 hours... a bit too much :) Olivier ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
