Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
i complete my software engineering degree. PHP isn't really a programming language. It's more a fancy templating for me it's just funny thing that needs several megs of RAM to display the current date ;) but as being treated as technology instead of just tool, it's used everythere without sense. in 90% cases just to link common header of HTML page with different body and common footer. simply using makefile with cat (possibly something SLIGHTLY more complicated) does the same. once, not every time page is viewed. programming language, and agree with the recommendation that you start with something a bit higher level. Perl, for example, ships with exactly :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:53:00 +0100 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Also if anyone wants to recommend any other books on C++ feel free. For beginners, I'd highly recommend C++ Primer / Fourth Ed. by Stanley B. Lippman et. al. But if you're starting to learn programming from scratch, it's much easier to begin with a scripted language like Python (others prefer Ruby or Perl, which are fine too). Why? C++ and STL are a powerful combination, but there's a lot of pitfalls and gotchas that you won't experience elsewhere (not so much with C itself, but with C++). And the biggest shortcoming of Standard C++ is its lack of standard libraries for stuff like network I/O, etc. Whatever you'll use for that will be intrinsically platform dependent. By learning a scripting language like Python, you'll get instant portability for their standard library as well as over 99% 3rd party modules. Once you've accumulated enough experience there, you can always catch up on C++. Whatever you opt to do, happy hacking and enjoy the ride! :) -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
a lot of pitfalls and gotchas that you won't experience elsewhere (not so much with C itself, but with C++). And that's why it's good to start with C ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
James Jeffery wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. Also if anyone wants to recommend any other books on C++ feel free. We are learning VB at college at the moment, i like it, but its not machine portable and i dont like the whole drag and drop way of creating a program, seems like cheating. Thanks for reading James The FreeBSD Developers' Handbook could be good to check out as well: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/developers-handbook/tools-compiling.html I think it's best to start with C and then move onto C++, however I use C for low level things with only textbased user interfaces and Java for things that require a GUI. -- Christer Hermansson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 10:13:56PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 08:53:00PM +0100, James Jeffery wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. I'd say that C++ isn't the easiest way to learn programming. I'd suggest starting with Perl, Ruby or Python. If you're amenable to languages other than C++, I'd specifically recommend Ruby, via the book Learn to Program by Chris Pine. Ruby and Perl are both excellent first languages, and both Learn to Program and Learning Perl by Randal Schwartz et al. are excellent books. Ruby's much better for learning object oriented programming techniques, though, and anyone learning to program anything like mainstream languages these days should learn some OOP (generally speaking). In the Unix world (such as with FreeBSD), I'd recommend C before C++, too -- though probably long after Ruby or Perl. If you specifically want to learn C++, though, and skip the middle man: more power to ya, and good luck. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. FreeBSD comes with the GNU C++ and C compilers installed. There are others available (Intel) or in progress (OpenWatcom). Also in progress is the TenDRA compiler, though FreeBSD support is part of what's in progress. http://www.tendra.org/about/ -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Dr. Ron Paul: Liberty has meaning only if we still believe in it when terrible things happen and a false government security blanket beckons. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 12:07:59AM +, Aryeh Friedman wrote: PHP isn't really a programming language. It's more a fancy templating system that happens to be able to use extensions that can provide C style linkage. That said, I laude you for your desire to learn a real programming language, and agree with the recommendation that you start with something a bit higher level. Perl, for example, ships with absolutely top-notch documentation, and generally speaking, its third-party extensions have similar documentation quality. Ruby is *VERY* easy to learn and there are many online and offline books for teaching it (or depending on your personal ideals on bittorrent)... it has one advantage over perl it much less syntactically ugly Perl gets a lot of bad press for its syntax. It's mostly undeserved, however. I think the two things about Perl that contribute most to that reputation are: 1. sigils on variables (there's a widespread unreasoning hatred of this language characteristic in some circles) 2. the fact that OOP in Perl actually *is* very ugly -- even if the rest of the language isn't As Paul Graham has been known to say (even if he wasn't talking about Perl specifically, at the time), real ugliness isn't harsh-looking syntax; it's having to build programs using the wrong concepts. Perl's full of ways to use the *right* concepts, as long as you don't misuse it like most of the code at Matt's Script Archive does. That's a not-so-subtle hint to avoid Matt's Script Archive if you're looking for examples of good Perl code. Perlmonks is much better for that. On the other hand, Aryeh Friedman is right that Ruby is very easy to learn, and it too is an excellent language. It's also much better (in my opinion at least) for learning object oriented programming techniques than Perl. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Brian K. Reid: In computer science, we stand on each other's feet. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sun, Oct 07, 2007 at 10:08:58AM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote: i complete my software engineering degree. PHP isn't really a programming language. It's more a fancy templating for me it's just funny thing that needs several megs of RAM to display the current date ;) but as being treated as technology instead of just tool, it's used everythere without sense. in 90% cases just to link common header of HTML page with different body and common footer. simply using makefile with cat (possibly something SLIGHTLY more complicated) does the same. once, not every time page is viewed. That's not a very practical answer for someone dealing with a shared hosting provider. Most of them don't allow shell access and make execution. On the other hand, for many common uses of PHP, SSI is at least as appropriate and simpler to use. -- CCD CopyWrite Chad Perrin [ http://ccd.apotheon.org ] Paul Graham: Real ugliness is not harsh-looking syntax, but having to build programs out of the wrong concepts. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 10:33:12AM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: In the Unix world (such as with FreeBSD), I'd recommend C before C++, too -- though probably long after Ruby or Perl. Too right. But it should be noted that both C and C++ give you enough rope to hang yourself with. My preference for doing things is; 1) Can it be done with a shell-script? (esp. one-time hacks) 2) Else use Perl, Octave, Ruby, but 3) If speed is key, use C. :-) Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. FreeBSD comes with the GNU C++ and C compilers installed. There are others available (Intel) or in progress (OpenWatcom). Also in progress is the TenDRA compiler, though FreeBSD support is part of what's in progress. Both OpenBSD and NetBSD (pkgsrc) have recently imported Anders Magnusson's BSD-licensed pcc compiler. At this time it is i386 en C only. In time this might be a faster (as in compile-time) alternative to gcc. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpjHpQLuYAaY.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sun, 7 Oct 2007 17:08:30 +0200 Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My preference for doing things is; 1) Can it be done with a shell-script? (esp. one-time hacks) 2) Else use Perl, Octave, Ruby, but 3) If speed is key, use C. :-) Yup, exactly. In Python, that's what extension modules in C and C++ are for (ditto for Perl, Ruby, ...). You gain raw speed for CPU bottlenecks, though that's just a nice side effect. More importantly, you can tap into existing C/C++ libraries by wrapping their interfaces into nice extension modules. And if you're too lazy do do the wrapping against Python, Ruby, Perl... APIs yourself, just use something like SWIG. It works like a charm. :) Anyway, having a working knowledge of C and C++ is always a very good idea! Go for it! It'll pay off, whatever your main programming language. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. Also if anyone wants to recommend any other books on C++ feel free. We are learning VB at college at the moment, i like it, but its not machine portable and i dont like the whole drag and drop way of creating a program, seems like cheating. Thanks for reading James ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sat, 6 Oct 2007 20:53:00 +0100 James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. gcc, the system C compiler, is a C++ compiler too. It's often invoked as g++ to get c++ defaults. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
James Jeffery wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. Also if anyone wants to recommend any other books on C++ feel free. We are learning VB at college at the moment, i like it, but its not machine portable and i dont like the whole drag and drop way of creating a program, seems like cheating. Thanks for reading James Are you using the Jesse Liberty's book? (the 21 days thing ? :) ) This is actually quite good for a beginner in the language - just don't try to finish it in 21 days... On to your question, FreeBSD provides (and is actually compiled itself by) the gcc compiler which will happily compile C and C++ programs. You may as well wish to install a GUI frontend (like kdevelop), but this is probably an overkill for the simple examples in the book. P.S. Visual Basic (at least up to version 6) is the best and easiest way to write the worst, most unreadable code... ever. Even worse, it may actually work...sort of. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 08:53:00PM +0100, James Jeffery wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. I'd say that C++ isn't the easiest way to learn programming. I'd suggest starting with Perl, Ruby or Python. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. FreeBSD comes with the GNU C++ and C compilers installed. There are others available (Intel) or in progress (OpenWatcom). Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpmAAMiPPYvn.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
Hi all, thanks for the fast replys, much appreciated. Manolis: Yep, its the book by Jesse, i never believe them when they say in 24 hours, its a snag for them to sell the book, they just split it up into 24 sections to make it look like its possible. Roland: Ive been working with PHP over the past 2 years, i understand the basics such as data types, functions, arrays, variables, objects ect, but i want to challenge myself and learn something that will benifit me when looking for work after uni, i've got another 4 years of learning before i complete my software engineering degree. Be cool to create stuff that i can use in FreeBSD, i know i have years of learning to do but im up for it. On 10/6/07, Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Oct 06, 2007 at 08:53:00PM +0100, James Jeffery wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. I'd say that C++ isn't the easiest way to learn programming. I'd suggest starting with Perl, Ruby or Python. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. FreeBSD comes with the GNU C++ and C compilers installed. There are others available (Intel) or in progress (OpenWatcom). Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. so you should start from lower level first - learn C first :) C is easy. it's actually very easy ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On 2007-10-06 20:53, James Jeffery [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Evening to you all (or morning in some parts of the world). Im learning C++ from Sams Teach Yourself C++, now many will call this a dumb method, and the books pointless and stupid, but i have no knowledge of any lower level languages, so i do need to be spoon fed the basics. Im using Borland C++ compiler on XP and was wondering what compilers there are for FreeBSD that would allow me to compile and execute some of the examples i will practise from the book. The base system of FreeBSD includes g++ (the GNU C++ Compiler), and there are several versions of the GNU C++ compiler in the ports too: $ pwd /usr/ports/lang $ ls -ld gcc[0-9]* drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc28 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc295 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc32 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc33 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Oct 4 18:43 gcc34 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc40 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Oct 2 16:32 gcc41 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc41-withgcjawt drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Oct 2 16:32 gcc42 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Sep 21 19:51 gcc42-withgcjawt drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel - 512 Oct 2 16:32 gcc43 $ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
On 2007-10-06, James Jeffery top-posted. [ please don't do that, it makes it very difficult to format responses correctly and makes it just about as hard to read and understand them ] Hi all, thanks for the fast replys, much appreciated. Manolis: Yep, its the book by Jesse, i never believe them when they say in 24 hours, its a snag for them to sell the book, they just split it up into 24 sections to make it look like its possible. I'd personally consider getting a better book. Generally, as has been said, the learn X in Y units_of_time books are titled that way for marketability. You can't *possibly* learn C++ in 10 minutes, 24 hours, 21 days, or even a year. See also http://norvig.com/21-days.html and http://accu.org/index.php/book_reviews for book reviews. Roland: Ive been working with PHP over the past 2 years, i understand the basics such as data types, functions, arrays, variables, objects ect, but i want to challenge myself and learn something that will benifit me when looking for work after uni, i've got another 4 years of learning before i complete my software engineering degree. PHP isn't really a programming language. It's more a fancy templating system that happens to be able to use extensions that can provide C style linkage. That said, I laude you for your desire to learn a real programming language, and agree with the recommendation that you start with something a bit higher level. Perl, for example, ships with absolutely top-notch documentation, and generally speaking, its third-party extensions have similar documentation quality. Best Regards, Christopher Nehren -- apeiron Yaakov, And it seems to me that the only people going on about freedom these days are RMS and Bush. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: C++ Compiler On FreeBSD
PHP isn't really a programming language. It's more a fancy templating system that happens to be able to use extensions that can provide C style linkage. That said, I laude you for your desire to learn a real programming language, and agree with the recommendation that you start with something a bit higher level. Perl, for example, ships with absolutely top-notch documentation, and generally speaking, its third-party extensions have similar documentation quality. Ruby is *VERY* easy to learn and there are many online and offline books for teaching it (or depending on your personal ideals on bittorrent)... it has one advantage over perl it much less syntactically ugly ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
