Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
--As of April 8, 2011 3:50:52 PM -0600, Chad Perrin is alleged to have said: You seem to fail to realize that it's possible to CC someone who isn't on the list, but not CC someone who *is* on the list. That would be why people who aren't members of the list say thinks like please CC me, while people who are members occasionally say please don't send duplicates to me. --As for the rest, it is mine. Of course that's hard to keep track of, and a manual process on the part of the persons sending the messages. ;) (And if it's not mentioned in the specific email you are replying to, you either have to rely on memory or guess.) I've seen a variety of other solutions to this. Some mailing lists programs will even check to see if the message has been sent to you directly, and if so avoid sending another copy to you. Usually that's an option, and I tend to turn it off: It just means my filters don't work on the message I get. If you have an email client that supports it, there is one good way to reliably indicate your preference: The 'Reply-To:' header. I set mine to the mailing list when sending to the list. Nearly all mail clients will then automatically send replies to that address. Of course, that only works if I have a mail client that lets me set that header independently. My at-home client does, but I also access my email over webmail. The webmail program technically can do it, but it's interface is *very* poor. (Squirrelmail: It allows it via profiles, but all profiles are named by the sender address, unchangeable. For this use-case, the sending address is the same for all profiles.) And while *most* email clients support replies to the Reply-To address, not all do. Nor does it help if people are habitually hitting reply-all. Still, I find setting the Reply-To address works better than most of the other options. It doesn't work 100% of the time, but then neither does anything else. (Including address rewriting by the mailing list.) So, if getting two copies is annoying you, try it. You'll at least have made your preference known, without imposing it on others as their preference. Daniel T. Staal --- This email copyright the author. Unless otherwise noted, you are expressly allowed to retransmit, quote, or otherwise use the contents for non-commercial purposes. This copyright will expire 5 years after the author's death, or in 30 years, whichever is longer, unless such a period is in excess of local copyright law. --- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
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Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On 04/08/11 16:21, Carmel wrote: On Fri, 08 Apr 2011 12:51:41 +0100 Arthur Chancefree...@qeng-ho.org articulated: On 04/07/11 15:32, Carmel wrote: Odhiambo, please don't CC me. I don't need multiple copies of the same post. CCing the original poster is standard etiquette on FreeBSD mailing lists. Most lists are open to anybody to mail to without being signed up, so when replying there's no way of knowing whether or not the questioner will see a reply that only goes to the list. This is especially true of freebsd-questions. 1) I have posted several times on this list and only received CC's on two of them that I can recall. Obviously your standard is not so standard. Well, it's not an ISO or IETF standard, that I'll admit. However, if you take a look at the article on getting the best out of -questions http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/freebsd-questions/article.html#AEN206 (which is one click away from the Mailing List Etiquette section of the Mailing List FAQ) section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote 2) I placed a very clear notice at the bottom of my post(s). Many people would consider that a clue as to my desire to receive multiple copies of the same document. My MUA (Thunderbird) greys out signature blocks, some other mailers also de-emphasise them. This and the fact that most sig blocks are just chaff means they tend not to get read. That's unfortunate on the odd occasions they have significant content. 3) Perhaps it is only me; however, most of the major lists that I employ all require a registration by the poster prior to being allowed to post. Many lists do, the FBSD lists tend not to. From the FAQ, note the final paragraph. start quote 1.3. Are the FreeBSD mailing lists open for anyone to participate? Again, this depends on charter of each individual list. Please read the charter of a mailing list before you post to it, and respect it when you post. This will help everyone to have a better experience with the lists. If after reading the above lists, you still do not know which mailing list to post a question to, you will probably want to post to freebsd-questions (but see below, first). Also note that the mailing lists have traditionally been open to postings from non-subscribers. This has been a deliberate choice, to help make joining the FreeBSD community an easier process, and to encourage open sharing of ideas. However, due to past abuse by some individuals, certain lists now have a policy where postings from non-subscribers must be manually screened to ensure that they are appropriate. end quote 4) I have seen several posts where the OP requested to be CC'd because they were not registered members of the list. Obviously, they were aware of the necessity of being CC'd or reading the archives in order to review any posts to their request. Now, is someone is just so plain stupid that they are not aware of that simple fact, then they are too stupid to be posting to begin with. Are they stupid? No. Are they unfamiliar with the way things are done round here? Quite possibly. I think you'll find that many of the people who do that are first time users or possible future users, often coming from a Linux background and/or used to closed lists. With luck, as people start using FBSD seriously they'll also take some time to read the FAQs. [For lurkers reading this, if you haven't read the Mailing List FAQ you'll find it at http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/articles/mailing-list-faq/ ] 5) If you noticed, I asked Odhiambo very nicely not to include me in a CC. I am sure he meant well; however, the inevitable destruction of electrons in the transmission of the superfluous document could have been avoided. If you interpreted my remark as criticising your politeness, I apologise. That was not the intention. Oh, and speaking as an ex-physicist, if electrons are being destroyed in transmission I'd *seriously* worry about your ISP. Either they've got a source of positrons or they've got radioactives that undergo electron capture. Either way I wouldn't want to be anywhere near their kit. Gamma rays are not good for you. :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the list a good reason to do otherwise. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpaRGrvGSRLO.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On 8 Apr 2011 20:25, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. While you make a valid point, how would one complain about not receiving an email? Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
Quoth Chad Perrin on Friday, 08 April 2011: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the list a good reason to do otherwise. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] +1 (I replied, cluttering up inboxes all over freebsdland) -- .o. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..o | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com ooo | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgp0LfZmUcK7u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 08:30:25PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote: On 8 Apr 2011 20:25, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. While you make a valid point, how would one complain about not receiving an email? Did you overlook the words in addition to the mail from the list? -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpcoeKOP9rLr.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 12:34:24PM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: +1 (I replied, cluttering up inboxes all over freebsdland) You didn't CC me directly, though, for which I'm grateful. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpnTlZSkroSX.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 13:11:52 -0600 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com articulated: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the list a good reason to do otherwise. Chad, it is common sense thinking like that, that will inevitable get you chastised. By the way, did you notice I directed a polite, one sentence directive towards Odhiambo. Suddenly, every buttinsky crawls out of the woodwork, sans any factual input on my original post and hijacks this thread championing their own views on replying to posts. I have no problem with that as long as they start a new thread, being sure to CC each other and thereby waste their time discussing it among themselves. To hijack another thread displays no only their lack of basic posting etiquette, but their narcissism. It is a shame when individuals like, but not limited to, Maciej Milewski, Chuck Swiger, Bryan H. and even Odhiambo contribute useful information only to be over shadowed by those other morons. Absolutely pathetic. I was going to CC all those who argued so feverishly in favor of the protocol, but then common sense and plain decency got the better of me. -- Carmel ✌ carmel...@hotmail.com Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On 8 April 2011 20:28, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 08:30:25PM +0100, Chris Rees wrote: On 8 Apr 2011 20:25, Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote: I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. While you make a valid point, how would one complain about not receiving an email? Did you overlook the words in addition to the mail from the list? My bad... Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On 8 April 2011 16:10, Carmel carmel...@hotmail.com wrote: By the way, did you notice I directed a polite, one sentence directive towards Odhiambo. Suddenly, every buttinsky crawls out of the woodwork, sans any factual input on my original post and hijacks this thread Maybe you would be better served by not using a _public_ mailing list if you don't want other people to reply to your _public_ postings. Just a hint. -- -- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 01:11:52PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the list a good reason to do otherwise. You seem to miss one crucial fact: Not all the people who write to this list are subscribed to it. They will not see any replies directed only to the list. It is for their benefit that that rule exists. -- Insert your favourite quote here. Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 11:15:11PM +0200, Erik Trulsson wrote:
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 01:11:52PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote:
On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote:
section 8.6 starts:
start quote
Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and
to FreeBSD-questions.
end quote
I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not*
need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see
anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the
list.
I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the
list a good reason to do otherwise.
You seem to miss one crucial fact: Not all the people who write to
this list are subscribed to it. They will not see any replies directed
only to the list. It is for their benefit that that rule exists.
You seem to fail to realize that it's possible to CC someone who isn't on
the list, but not CC someone who *is* on the list. That would be why
people who aren't members of the list say thinks like please CC me,
while people who are members occasionally say please don't send
duplicates to me.
--
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
pgp101GD1lTqR.pgp
Description: PGP signature
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 23:15:11 +0200 Erik Trulsson ertr1...@student.uu.se wrote: You seem to miss one crucial fact: Not all the people who write to this list are subscribed to it. They will not see any replies directed only to the list. It is for their benefit that that rule exists. I don't know about anyone else, but personally I like getting replies CC'd to me because they end up in my INBOX - otherwise I often don't notice someone's replied since there are so many new messages to the mailing list each day. -- Bruce Cran ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:50:52 -0600 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com articulated: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 11:15:11PM +0200, Erik Trulsson wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 01:11:52PM -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: On Fri, Apr 08, 2011 at 06:42:16PM +0100, Arthur Chance wrote: section 8.6 starts: start quote Unless there is a good reason to do otherwise, reply to the sender and to FreeBSD-questions. end quote I, for one, am glad this does not happen more often. I really do *not* need a bunch of duplicates cluttering up my inbox. I have yet to see anyone complain of not receiving a CC in addition to the mail from the list. I consider not cluttering up the inboxes of people subscribed to the list a good reason to do otherwise. You seem to miss one crucial fact: Not all the people who write to this list are subscribed to it. They will not see any replies directed only to the list. It is for their benefit that that rule exists. You seem to fail to realize that it's possible to CC someone who isn't on the list, but not CC someone who *is* on the list. That would be why people who aren't members of the list say thinks like please CC me, while people who are members occasionally say please don't send duplicates to me. The solution to this problem is so obvious that I am amazed that no one has proposed it. Simply require the poster to be subscribed to the list. Other high quality lists, such as but not limited to Postfix have that requirement in place. If a potential poster is either too stupid or too lazy to subscribe then that is their problem. For the record, I have subscribed to lists before simple to post one question. Upon receiving an answer, I terminated my subscription. I did not feel the least bit inconvenienced. -- Carmel ✌ carmel...@hotmail.com Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
Can we just drop this matter? It's bad enough that iPhone mail makes this whole ordeal a pain in the butt to read, but in the grand scheme of things, it _just doesn't matter_. I'm subscribed to the list, I expect lots of email from the list that I probably won't read anyway, but at least it's helpful to someone, somehow. My 2 cents. -Alex___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Mailing list etiquette (Was: Re: Linksys-E4200 Wireless N-router)
Hi, On Saturday 09 April 2011 05:46:43 Carmel wrote: On Fri, 8 Apr 2011 15:50:52 -0600 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com articulated: The solution to this problem is so obvious that I am amazed that no one this is a solution which creates just new problems. has proposed it. Simply require the poster to be subscribed to the list. Other high quality lists, such as but not limited to Postfix have that requirement in place. If a potential poster is either too stupid or too lazy to subscribe then that is their problem. For the record, I have subscribed to lists before simple to post one question. Upon receiving an answer, I terminated my subscription. I did not feel the least bit inconvenienced. You did not, but the rest of us would have. Erich ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
