Re: FreeBSD weakness.
On Tue, 2004-06-22 at 02:36, Tom McLaughlin wrote: On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 02:59, Lloyd Hayes wrote: Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux... I'f you're going to go with Linux then I'd recommend Mandrake. Many people would also recommend Suse as well but I never personally used that so I can't vouch for it but you many want to give that a whirl. I'd stay away from Fedora though, I don't think it's meant for anyone besides those willing to work on it when they find problems. Mandrake has the Community Download edition available about a month I think before the pay CD release. It's a way for all the early adopters to leach, find bugs, and kvetch before the people paying Mandrakesoft's bills get their version. :) Wait two weeks or so after the release for the errata to flow in then install and run their update utility. Mandrake served me well for a number of years until I felt I needed something different which is why I am here. It's still the distribution I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't feel like bothering with all the internals. Tom id second the mandrake vote I started with mandrake thought id be cleaver an go hardcore with slackware then went back to mandrake as a desktop os arden ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
I have been playing with Linux and BSD for about 3 years. I have landed on the following. 1. FreeBSD is great for non-cluster server install bases. 2. FreeBSD is great for a workstation if you really really like compiling and hand editing config files. 3. Linux is best for a workstation desktop substitute for Windows if you have app support. As for Linux distros I have landed on Xandros. They just announced the free download edition a few weeks ago. On Tue, 22 Jun 2004 12:31:08 +0100, arden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tue, 2004-06-22 at 02:36, Tom McLaughlin wrote: On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 02:59, Lloyd Hayes wrote: Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux... I'f you're going to go with Linux then I'd recommend Mandrake. Many people would also recommend Suse as well but I never personally used that so I can't vouch for it but you many want to give that a whirl. I'd stay away from Fedora though, I don't think it's meant for anyone besides those willing to work on it when they find problems. Mandrake has the Community Download edition available about a month I think before the pay CD release. It's a way for all the early adopters to leach, find bugs, and kvetch before the people paying Mandrakesoft's bills get their version. :) Wait two weeks or so after the release for the errata to flow in then install and run their update utility. Mandrake served me well for a number of years until I felt I needed something different which is why I am here. It's still the distribution I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't feel like bothering with all the internals. Tom id second the mandrake vote I started with mandrake thought id be cleaver an go hardcore with slackware then went back to mandrake as a desktop os arden ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
In reading the reviews, the book/CD set got the most praise. However, from the reviews, it sounds like it needs to be updated. Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Lloyd: I heartily recommend FreeBSD: An Open-Source OS for your PC. by Annelise Anderson http://www.bsdmall.com/freebosforyo.html This is the book for absolute beginners. If you think a port is a place where ships dock and bash is a goth discoteque dance, then this is the book you should be reading. The next great resource are the tutorials by Dru Lavigne: FreeBSD Basics http://www.onlamp.com/pub/ct/15 Whether judged by pedagogic, technical or literary standards, Dru's articles are works of high perfection. Finally, I recommend getting Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD. The book is a great resource for technical details about FreeBSD 5.X. I found the sections on TCP/IP and the etc file system to be very helpfully. HTH Jonathan I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. -- Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux... Seriously, one thing that catches my attention is that I don't see any really great differences between the BSD (Any version) and the Linux community. In doing some reading, it appears that the people at KDE and Gnome, as well as many others, have this same thought. I was actually pointed in the FreeBSD direction by a magazine writer whom I was communicating with about the future of Linux. We talked by email and he thought that FreeBSD had to most promise of a good future. He suggested that I should check FreeBSD out. Understand that learning UNIX is not my end goal. It may happen in the process, but being a master of the UNIX system is not my end goal. Nor is writing programs my goal. I wrote a ton of programs 20 years ago, but I haven't written a single line of code in 10 years. I have no wish to work in an IT shop anywhere. My goal is simply to keep some of my older computers useful. I care less about which operating system I am using as long as it does the job that I want. This business of buying new computers every year or two is a Micro$oft idea. It is also an idea that needs to be re-thought. Micro$oft is great about jumping onto new technology with half-baked software. When they get close to fixing their software, then they abandon it for new technology and more half-baked software expecting people to buy the new hardware/software. It's a system that Micro$oft can't be beaten at. I simply think that it is time for a change. (I'm not against new ideas. But I hate keeping up with Mr. Gates.) Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ Tom McLaughlin wrote: On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 15:40, Jorn Argelo wrote: Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Beginners who never seen UNIX coude shouldn't start with FreeBSD in the first place, if you ask me. They should start Mandrake Linux or SuSe or something of the sorts. FreeBSD isn't made to make an user friendly operating system, as Mandrake Linux is aiming at. You just have to know some Unix stuff before you even start with FreeBSD. I would have to disgree having my first *nix experience five years ago with Mandrake and switching to FreeBSD a number of months ago. I switched to FreeBSD because I felt my unix skills were getting rusty. When I started with Mandrake I did most of my system configuration and administration from the command line and I learned a lot of unix in those first few years. Over time with the inclusion of more GUI based tools that became harder. Files seemed to keep moving or configuration was spread across too many files. I believe you end up becomming too dependant on the distribution specific configuration tools with Linux and you don't truely learn the system. For anyone who really wants to learn unix the BSDs are the place to start. Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Tom I have the book on the below link, and I must say it is very very good. Good examples and clearly elaborated, though it lacks in-depth information, which might be handy for more advanced users. It's good for beginners who are comfortable in a Unix or Linux enviroment. Why don't you give that one a shot? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072224096/104-0798845-8369533?v=glance And what about our own FreeBSD Handbook? Don't tell me that that is bad, because there is book that can beat it if you ask me. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Cheers, Jorn ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness(It's not. hear my story)
I liked your story. Here is mine. In the 1980s, I was offered programming jobs at Microsoft and Intuit, and few other companies. I wasn't sure if I was willing to commit to working full time on computers. Up until this point, writing computer programs had simply been a hobby. So, I went back to college and buried myself in a year of intensive computer classes. (No UNIX.) I came out of it with 4.0 grade average, job offers by the US Government, and an intense dislike of computers. I worked myself back into liking computers afterwards as long as it was a passive acquaintance. I like using computers for work, communication and recreation. I don't like spending all day, every day, on them. Needless to say, I didn't take anyones job offer which related to computers. As I have mentioned earlier, my only goal here is to setup some older computers of mine and keep them useful. I'll repeat this so there is no misunderstanding. The people here have been great in their response to help! But there is also no getting around the fact that I am much older (54) and less able to absorb new ideas as fast Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ Mark Jayson Alvarez wrote: Hi Lloyd, Let me share you my experience with learning freebsd. I promise you... you'll throw away those expensive books that you have bought after reading my story.. A few months ago, I was totally a Windows user. I've already heard about Linux from a friend but not exactly Unix.. That friend of mine was convincing me to use the same OS he's using but I refused to cause I've seen nothing graphical with he's OS(running the whole thing in Terminal without using any Desktop environment). But then something bright have sparked in my mind and decided to search Google for best Operating System. And so I've landed on Windows, Freebsd, MacOS and, Linux comparison.. Of the four OS's featured, I've never heard anything about FreeBSD and so I went to their site to find out more... And my journey began there... After finishing the installation of Freebsd(using only the handbook and nothing else) I've landed on this so called terminal.. Mind you, I'm completely new to Unix and I know not a thing, not even the ls command.. Learning that FreeBSD is a Unix like operating system, I began searching google for Unix commands and I've downloaded something in PDF format comparing the commands in MSDOS(which I'm used with) and those that are used in Unix.. And that's it!!! With a few resources at hand I was able to do all of the things I used to do in Windows without having too much trouble in FreeBSD.. Now, I'm still reading FreeBSD's Handbook and I'm already on the Chapter 19-Advance Networking.. preparing my self for a career in Networking being just a fresh graduate.. I tell you... learning one thing is not about the those fancy Documents and instructions that would help you out along the way... It's about having that willingness and passion to learn that thing.. It's about having the confidence that, hey, if they've learned this, why can't I?! Knowledge is a long race, and don't you worry my friend.. you're not the last in this race... 'cause no one has ever gone too far.. Hope this thought would help you out and all of those beginners like us whom would want to dwell into the simple but complicated world of Unix computing... Regards to all Mailers -jay:-) --- Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. -- Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
BSD cant do multipath routing behind NAT, just like iproute(8) Linux, hope Paul Hening Kamp Patch will work... regards reza Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux... Seriously, one thing that catches my attention is that I don't see any really great differences between the BSD (Any version) and the Linux community. In doing some reading, it appears that the people at KDE and Gnome, as well as many others, have this same thought. I was actually pointed in the FreeBSD direction by a magazine writer whom I was communicating with about the future of Linux. We talked by email and he thought that FreeBSD had to most promise of a good future. He suggested that I should check FreeBSD out. Understand that learning UNIX is not my end goal. It may happen in the process, but being a master of the UNIX system is not my end goal. Nor is writing programs my goal. I wrote a ton of programs 20 years ago, but I haven't written a single line of code in 10 years. I have no wish to work in an IT shop anywhere. My goal is simply to keep some of my older computers useful. I care less about which operating system I am using as long as it does the job that I want. This business of buying new computers every year or two is a Micro$oft idea. It is also an idea that needs to be re-thought. Micro$oft is great about jumping onto new technology with half-baked software. When they get close to fixing their software, then they abandon it for new technology and more half-baked software expecting people to buy the new hardware/software. It's a system that Micro$oft can't be beaten at. I simply think that it is time for a change. (I'm not against new ideas. But I hate keeping up with Mr. Gates.) Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ Tom McLaughlin wrote: On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 15:40, Jorn Argelo wrote: Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Beginners who never seen UNIX coude shouldn't start with FreeBSD in the first place, if you ask me. They should start Mandrake Linux or SuSe or something of the sorts. FreeBSD isn't made to make an user friendly operating system, as Mandrake Linux is aiming at. You just have to know some Unix stuff before you even start with FreeBSD. I would have to disgree having my first *nix experience five years ago with Mandrake and switching to FreeBSD a number of months ago. I switched to FreeBSD because I felt my unix skills were getting rusty. When I started with Mandrake I did most of my system configuration and administration from the command line and I learned a lot of unix in those first few years. Over time with the inclusion of more GUI based tools that became harder. Files seemed to keep moving or configuration was spread across too many files. I believe you end up becomming too dependant on the distribution specific configuration tools with Linux and you don't truely learn the system. For anyone who really wants to learn unix the BSDs are the place to start. Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Tom I have the book on the below link, and I must say it is very very good. Good examples and clearly elaborated, though it lacks in-depth information, which might be handy for more advanced users. It's good for beginners who are comfortable in a Unix or Linux enviroment. Why don't you give that one a shot? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072224096/104-0798845-8369533?v=glance And what about our own FreeBSD Handbook? Don't tell me that that is bad, because there is book that can beat it if you ask me. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Cheers, Jorn ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To
Re: FreeBSD weakness(It's not. hear my story)
On 2004-06-21 01:42, Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll repeat this so there is no misunderstanding. The people here have been great in their response to help! But there is also no getting around the fact that I am much older (54) and less able to absorb new ideas as fast That's okay. My mother is around that age and started using a computer about a year ago. She doesn't want to be a hot-shot programmer or even anything remotely related to an IT professional. No time for that just yet, what with a full time job as a teacher in primary school and all the rest of the stuff she does at home. Yet, she has actually managed to learn quite an astonishing amount of things by spending a total of less than 200 hours during a period that lasted almost a year and a half. So, it's not impossible to learn using a computer even at this age. I'm not saying it's easy either, mind you. But it *can* be done ;) - Giorgos ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness
On 2004-06-21 01:42, Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'll repeat this so there is no misunderstanding. The people here have been great in their response to help! But there is also no getting around the fact that I am much older (54) and less able to absorb new ideas as fast ALoha Lloyd Age and cunning will beat youth and speed most of the time. (IIRC) ;o) begin horn blowing I am 57 and installed my first linux distro about a year ago. Sice then I have tried 5 different linux distros and was unsatisfied with each for various reasons. Mostly because I didn't have total control over what is being installed from the iso or from the packages. Gentoo does better than most by emulating FBSD. In January I installed FreeBSD for the first time. Actually, I installed it about a dozen times for the first time. I read the handbook and lurked on forums and subscribed to the mailing lists (-newbies -questions). I kept acquiring old systems and improving them. I now have FBSD installed on 4 frankenputers and my laptop. I still have so much to learn and to do. I have a lot planned and will try to do it myself with the aid of books/howtos and lurking. I also know that when I am stuck, I can send to -questions and get quality (and quantity) answers. end horn blowing I agree with you. The people on this list and their responses are fantastic! I for one hope you stick with it. Keep your mind active and the ability to absorb will not diminish. Robert ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
On Mon, 2004-06-21 at 02:59, Lloyd Hayes wrote: Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Under these conditions, I guess that I need to go for Linux... I'f you're going to go with Linux then I'd recommend Mandrake. Many people would also recommend Suse as well but I never personally used that so I can't vouch for it but you many want to give that a whirl. I'd stay away from Fedora though, I don't think it's meant for anyone besides those willing to work on it when they find problems. Mandrake has the Community Download edition available about a month I think before the pay CD release. It's a way for all the early adopters to leach, find bugs, and kvetch before the people paying Mandrakesoft's bills get their version. :) Wait two weeks or so after the release for the errata to flow in then install and run their update utility. Mandrake served me well for a number of years until I felt I needed something different which is why I am here. It's still the distribution I'd recommend to anyone who doesn't feel like bothering with all the internals. Tom ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 20:33, Tom McLaughlin wrote: On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 14:23, Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Of the free OSs I think the different BSDs tend to be the better documented. Along with the man pages (don't short them, some can be obtuse at times but overall they give me what I need most of the time), this has served as my primary source of documentation for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html Book wise, there are more on Linux. This is starting to change though which is great. I think what you are looking for isn't necessarilly a FreeBSD specific book, though having at least one is great, but a general unix primer to help you get more familiar with unix concepts. I remember when I started toying around with linux and stared at the command line not knowing what to do. I had Running Linux back then which had a great intro to such things like file permissions, users/groups, and navigating around the system. Since I really can't from looking at my bookshelf, can anyone recommend a book with a few good chapters on general unix concepts to get a completely green user familiar and comfortable with the way things are done? Comming from $OTHER_OS to unix can be daunting but once you get the basics down, you start to complain that $OTHER_OS is too hard to do what you want. :) Tom I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. ive also just started down the bsd route started on linux 2/3 years back then m$ was my desktop OS now thats been replaced by mandrake and bsd is my play OS i have to say its done me no end of good at work now been sent on aix courses in order to become a member of our risc team :) on a side not ive still have a small windows partition for running dvd2one dose any one know an equivalent in the *nix world arden ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
[snipped] Since I really can't from looking at my bookshelf, can anyone recommend a book with a few good chapters on general unix concepts to get a completely green user familiar and comfortable with the way things are done? Comming from $OTHER_OS to unix can be daunting but once you get General UNIX stuff: Visual Quickstart Guide [to] UNIX by Deborah Eric Ray FreeBSD-specific stuff: Greg Lehey's Complete FreeBSD Best all-around mini-nutshell introduction: Anneliese Anderson's For People New to Both FreeBSD and UNIX, found in the doc section of the FreeBSD website. Don Tyson ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. Hi Lloyd, Welcome to the FreeBSD Questions Mailinglist! We try to help persons who have issues with their installations, etc. And you are one of those persons we want to try and help. However, we can help you if you give more information, what errors do you get? Do you perhaps know what you did which caused those errors? From what moment did those errors arise? What links did you get? Did people refer to the handbook? http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/index.html or the faq? http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/faq/index.html or where? And what books did you order? Perhaps they are outdated, or not very up to date anymore. What version are you running? Oh, and you can contribute, read the handbook and faq, and create some articles, which you think need to be linked with freebsd so that anyone can use them. You can find more information for that here: http://www.freebsd.org/docproj/index.html I hope this helped a little, Cheers -- Kind regards, Remko Lodder |[EMAIL PROTECTED] Reporter DSINet|[EMAIL PROTECTED] Projectleader Mostly-Harmless |[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 14:23, Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Of the free OSs I think the different BSDs tend to be the better documented. Along with the man pages (don't short them, some can be obtuse at times but overall they give me what I need most of the time), this has served as my primary source of documentation for FreeBSD: http://www.freebsd.org/docs.html Book wise, there are more on Linux. This is starting to change though which is great. I think what you are looking for isn't necessarilly a FreeBSD specific book, though having at least one is great, but a general unix primer to help you get more familiar with unix concepts. I remember when I started toying around with linux and stared at the command line not knowing what to do. I had Running Linux back then which had a great intro to such things like file permissions, users/groups, and navigating around the system. Since I really can't from looking at my bookshelf, can anyone recommend a book with a few good chapters on general unix concepts to get a completely green user familiar and comfortable with the way things are done? Comming from $OTHER_OS to unix can be daunting but once you get the basics down, you start to complain that $OTHER_OS is too hard to do what you want. :) Tom I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Beginners who never seen UNIX coude shouldn't start with FreeBSD in the first place, if you ask me. They should start Mandrake Linux or SuSe or something of the sorts. FreeBSD isn't made to make an user friendly operating system, as Mandrake Linux is aiming at. You just have to know some Unix stuff before you even start with FreeBSD. I have the book on the below link, and I must say it is very very good. Good examples and clearly elaborated, though it lacks in-depth information, which might be handy for more advanced users. It's good for beginners who are comfortable in a Unix or Linux enviroment. Why don't you give that one a shot? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072224096/104-0798845-8369533?v=glance And what about our own FreeBSD Handbook? Don't tell me that that is bad, because there is book that can beat it if you ask me. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Cheers, Jorn ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
On Sat, 2004-06-19 at 15:40, Jorn Argelo wrote: Lloyd Hayes wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. Beginners who never seen UNIX coude shouldn't start with FreeBSD in the first place, if you ask me. They should start Mandrake Linux or SuSe or something of the sorts. FreeBSD isn't made to make an user friendly operating system, as Mandrake Linux is aiming at. You just have to know some Unix stuff before you even start with FreeBSD. I would have to disgree having my first *nix experience five years ago with Mandrake and switching to FreeBSD a number of months ago. I switched to FreeBSD because I felt my unix skills were getting rusty. When I started with Mandrake I did most of my system configuration and administration from the command line and I learned a lot of unix in those first few years. Over time with the inclusion of more GUI based tools that became harder. Files seemed to keep moving or configuration was spread across too many files. I believe you end up becomming too dependant on the distribution specific configuration tools with Linux and you don't truely learn the system. For anyone who really wants to learn unix the BSDs are the place to start. Linux is for people who hate Micro$oft. BSD is for people who love Unix. Tom I have the book on the below link, and I must say it is very very good. Good examples and clearly elaborated, though it lacks in-depth information, which might be handy for more advanced users. It's good for beginners who are comfortable in a Unix or Linux enviroment. Why don't you give that one a shot? http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0072224096/104-0798845-8369533?v=glance And what about our own FreeBSD Handbook? Don't tell me that that is bad, because there is book that can beat it if you ask me. http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Cheers, Jorn ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
--- Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. -- Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Lloyd, I must say that there may not be as much documentation about FreeBSD as there is to other operating systems. However the documentation that does exist is of high quality. If your looking for an intorductory book: FreeBSD: An Open-Source Operating System for Your Personal Computer, Second Edition (with CD-ROM) by Annelise Anderson ISBN: 0971204519 Also the FreeBSD handbook is an excellent reference: http://www.freebsd.org/doc/en_US.ISO8859-1/books/handbook/ Additional articles published by O'Reilly / Onlamp have a great beginners section (FreeBSD basics and Big Scary Daemons): www.onlamp.com/bsd Another set of good articles: http://www.daemonnews.org/new2bsd/ http://www.freebsd.org/projects/newbies.html Hope this helps, Pete __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - 50x more storage than other providers! http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness.
Hi Lloyd: I heartily recommend FreeBSD: An Open-Source OS for your PC. by Annelise Anderson http://www.bsdmall.com/freebosforyo.html This is the book for absolute beginners. If you think a port is a place where ships dock and bash is a goth discoteque dance, then this is the book you should be reading. The next great resource are the tutorials by Dru Lavigne: FreeBSD Basics http://www.onlamp.com/pub/ct/15 Whether judged by pedagogic, technical or literary standards, Dru's articles are works of high perfection. Finally, I recommend getting Greg Lehey's The Complete FreeBSD. The book is a great resource for technical details about FreeBSD 5.X. I found the sections on TCP/IP and the etc file system to be very helpfully. HTH Jonathan I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. -- Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness(It's not. hear my story)
Hi Lloyd, Let me share you my experience with learning freebsd. I promise you... you'll throw away those expensive books that you have bought after reading my story.. A few months ago, I was totally a Windows user. I've already heard about Linux from a friend but not exactly Unix.. That friend of mine was convincing me to use the same OS he's using but I refused to cause I've seen nothing graphical with he's OS(running the whole thing in Terminal without using any Desktop environment). But then something bright have sparked in my mind and decided to search Google for best Operating System. And so I've landed on Windows, Freebsd, MacOS and, Linux comparison.. Of the four OS's featured, I've never heard anything about FreeBSD and so I went to their site to find out more... And my journey began there... After finishing the installation of Freebsd(using only the handbook and nothing else) I've landed on this so called terminal.. Mind you, I'm completely new to Unix and I know not a thing, not even the ls command.. Learning that FreeBSD is a Unix like operating system, I began searching google for Unix commands and I've downloaded something in PDF format comparing the commands in MSDOS(which I'm used with) and those that are used in Unix.. And that's it!!! With a few resources at hand I was able to do all of the things I used to do in Windows without having too much trouble in FreeBSD.. Now, I'm still reading FreeBSD's Handbook and I'm already on the Chapter 19-Advance Networking.. preparing my self for a career in Networking being just a fresh graduate.. I tell you... learning one thing is not about the those fancy Documents and instructions that would help you out along the way... It's about having that willingness and passion to learn that thing.. It's about having the confidence that, hey, if they've learned this, why can't I?! Knowledge is a long race, and don't you worry my friend.. you're not the last in this race... 'cause no one has ever gone too far.. Hope this thought would help you out and all of those beginners like us whom would want to dwell into the simple but complicated world of Unix computing... Regards to all Mailers -jay:-) --- Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I finally decided that I needed to get more information on FreeBSD. I got it up and running, then I did something else and I start getting errors again So I just ordered 3 books on FreeBSD from Amazon. In most of the reviews posted there about the books, people were complaining about weak documentation, too much information about things that they were not interested in, and errors in the in the books which seems to be the most common complaint. In my very short recent history with FreeBSD, I've formed the opinion that documenting FreeBSD is it's greatest weakness. FreeBSD needs someone who can actually type to write a good book for beginners who have never seen UNIX code. A book is needed with examples that actually WORK! Examples that are explained in plain English. There seems to be very few books on FreeBSD around. I have decided that it is a very good operating system which I need to learn more about. And yes, I have all of the links that everyone sent me. Thanks for all of the info. -- Lloyd Hayes Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://TalkingStaff.bravehost.com E-FAX Number: (208) 248-6590 Web Journal: http://lloyd_hayes.bravejournal.com/ ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: FreeBSD weakness(It's not. hear my story)
- Original Message - From: Mark Jayson Alvarez [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Lloyd Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, June 19, 2004 9:59 PM Subject: Re: FreeBSD weakness(It's not. hear my story) Hi Lloyd, Let me share you my experience with learning freebsd. I promise you... you'll throw away those expensive books that you have bought after reading my story.. A few months ago, I was totally a Windows user. I've already heard about Linux from a friend but not exactly Unix.. That friend of mine was convincing me to use the same OS he's using but I refused to cause I've seen nothing graphical with he's OS(running the whole thing in Terminal without using any Desktop environment). But then something bright have sparked in my mind and decided to search Google for best Operating System. And so I've landed on Windows, Freebsd, MacOS and, Linux comparison.. Of the four OS's featured, I've never heard anything about FreeBSD and so I went to their site to find out more... And my journey began there... After finishing the installation of Freebsd(using only the handbook and nothing else) I've landed on this so called terminal.. Mind you, I'm completely new to Unix and I know not a thing, not even the ls command.. Learning that FreeBSD is a Unix like operating system, I began searching google for Unix commands and I've downloaded something in PDF format comparing the commands in MSDOS(which I'm used with) and those that are used in Unix.. And that's it!!! With a few resources at hand I was able to do all of the things I used to do in Windows without having too much trouble in FreeBSD.. Now, I'm still reading FreeBSD's Handbook and I'm already on the Chapter 19-Advance Networking.. preparing my self for a career in Networking being just a fresh graduate.. I tell you... learning one thing is not about the those fancy Documents and instructions that would help you out along the way... It's about having that willingness and passion to learn that thing.. It's about having the confidence that, hey, if they've learned this, why can't I?! Knowledge is a long race, and don't you worry my friend.. you're not the last in this race... 'cause no one has ever gone too far.. Hope this thought would help you out and all of those beginners like us whom would want to dwell into the simple but complicated world of Unix computing... Regards to all Mailers -jay:-) Jay, You got the spirit. From what you've said here, you went at it exactly like I did. Denny ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
