Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-10 Thread Allen
On 9/6/2011 10:44 AM, Michael Doyle wrote: Lots of other people have given good answers. I'm just chiming in on points 3 and 7 On 20 Aug 2011, at 05:47, Evan Busch wrote: What is a quality operating system? I work as a database developer in an SME. I support end users on Mac OSX

Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-06 Thread Michael Doyle
Lots of other people have given good answers. I'm just chiming in on points 3 and 7 On 20 Aug 2011, at 05:47, Evan Busch wrote: What is a quality operating system? I work as a database developer in an SME. I support end users on Mac OSX and Windows XP .. Windows Vista clients

Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-03 Thread Jakub Lach
http://www.openbsd.org/faq/faq5.html#Why Sorry, it's looks roughly applicable here. I'm guilty too, but I don't want/use binary upgrades. -- View this message in context: http://freebsd.1045724.n5.nabble.com/A-quality-operating-system-tp4717703p4765099.html Sent from the freebsd-questions

Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-03 Thread Allen
Maybe I can play Diplomat here, considering that I use both BSD and Linux and Windows, and I won't pretend to care about any of your feelings and just be Honest: On 8/20/2011 2:09 PM, Michael Sierchio wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com wrote: 3)

Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-03 Thread Matthew Seaman
On 03/09/2011 10:17, Allen wrote: Try that on any version of BSD before PC-BSD came around. I get that a lot of BSD people are programmers and like looking at source code, but personally, not being a coder, I don't CARE what flags something uses However, I, as a systems administrator that

Re: A quality operating system

2011-09-03 Thread Julian H. Stacey
Hi, Reference: From: Allen unix.hac...@comcast.net Date: Sat, 03 Sep 2011 05:17:51 -0400 Message-id: 4e61f0bf.9030...@comcast.net Allen wrote: Maybe I can play Diplomat here, considering that I use both BSD and ..^ Linux and Windows, and I won't

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-28 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 09:04:28PM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Saturday, 27 August 2011: I've decided to provide the professional response Evan claims to crave: Dear Evan, We appreciate your feedback on the quality, scope, and focus of our

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-28 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of August 28, 2011 9:10:34 AM -0600, Chad Perrin is alleged to have said: On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 09:04:28PM -0700, Chip Camden wrote: Quoth Chad Perrin on Saturday, 27 August 2011: I've decided to provide the professional response Evan claims to crave: Dear Evan, We

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-28 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 12:21:06PM -0400, Daniel Staal wrote: What do you mean? All you need is some random link to a random survey URL. The fact that the survey doesn't mention anything about the product in question, the type of issue addressed, what type of response he was given, or

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Mario Lobo
On Thursday 25 August 2011 01:39:54 Polytropon wrote: Last, suppose you issue a general invitation for people to go over to your house for a free dinner, with food that you know (because you helped in preparing it!) in your heart and taste to be excellent, well prepared and nutritious.

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Evan Busch
I can see this will be important here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: But allow me to say that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_ way, you should always bring examples and name _concrete_ points

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Chip Camden
Quoth Evan Busch on Saturday, 27 August 2011: In most cases, documentation requires you to have a minimal clue of what you're doing. There's terminology you simply have to know, and concepts to understand in order to use the documentation. See the Wikipedia page above -- the problem

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Frank Shute
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:56:16PM -0500, Evan Busch wrote: I can see this will be important here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: But allow me to say that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Robert Bonomi
From owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org Sat Aug 27 13:58:08 2011 Date: Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:56:16 -0500 From: Evan Busch antiequal...@gmail.com To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A quality operating system I can see this will be important here

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Mario Lobo
On Saturday 27 August 2011 16:58:06 Frank Shute wrote: On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 01:56:16PM -0500, Evan Busch wrote: [Snip..] If so, it's just them trying to cover up the inherently defensive and reactionary nature of their comments. They're inherently defensive and reactionary because

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Aug 27, 2011 at 09:48:45PM -0300, Mario Lobo wrote: So, to exhaust everything I have to say on this subject, I will try to translate the best I can, two popular sayings here in my country. I hope I can make their meaning get through. I think both translations carried quite a lot of

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Polytropon
On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:56:16 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: I can see this will be important here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_dilemma On Wed, Aug 24, 2011 at 9:32 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: But allow me to say that _if_ you are interested in contributing in _that_ way,

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 05:09:26AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:56:16 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: I've never had this problem when the claims have been stated professionally -- only here. But the claims HAVEN'T been stated professionally. You didn't bring _one_ example,

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-27 Thread Chip Camden
Quoth Chad Perrin on Saturday, 27 August 2011: On Sun, Aug 28, 2011 at 05:09:26AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 27 Aug 2011 13:56:16 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: I've never had this problem when the claims have been stated professionally -- only here. But the claims HAVEN'T been

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-25 Thread Mihamina Rakotomandimby
On 08/25/2011 07:39 AM, Polytropon wrote: [...] and you have to get all the strange concepts in line, beginning with drive letters and ending in reboots after few changes.:-) The FreeBSD documentation even keeps that in mind: It mentions the Windows terms for things just in case some reader is

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Evan Busch
Subject: A quality operating system Hi, I make decisions about hardware and software for those who work with me. Talking with my second in command this morning, we reached a quandary. Ron is completely pro-Linux and pro-Windows, and against FreeBSD. What is odd about this is that he's

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Polytropon
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 21:02:18 -0500, Evan Busch wrote: I didn't expect this much response. You always get what you deserve on this list. :-) No, seriously: There are participants of this list who understand complains and other statements in a critical tone as inspiration for improvement. But

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Henry Olyer
Baloney. Sure, nothing human is perfect, that includes the people behind FreeBSD and also the OS. But compared to (gasp!,) windoz and linux, (not too bad, but it's as non-secure as windoz!,) FreeBSD and OpenBSD standout for one reason, their better. I would like to see negotiate a deal to give

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Polytropon
On Wed, 24 Aug 2011 22:48:46 -0400, Henry Olyer wrote: Sure, nothing human is perfect, that includes the people behind FreeBSD and also the OS. And even if the OS is perfect, its 3rd party applications may be not. But compared to (gasp!,) windoz and linux, (not too bad, but it's as

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Mario Lobo
Hi Evan; Please allow me some comments. On Wednesday 24 August 2011 23:02:18 Evan Busch wrote: I didn't expect this much response. That's a bit naive and shows how much you don't know this list. Some interesting stuff: Here, this is mostly the case. Even the trolls are so. On Sat, Aug

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-24 Thread Polytropon
On Thu, 25 Aug 2011 01:24:51 -0300, Mario Lobo wrote: Well, I think the handbook has got its name wrong. To me, it should have been called handybook. What you're saying sounds more like you wanted the handbook to be a usage tutorial, which it's NOT what it is supposed to be. That's a valid

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-23 Thread Polytropon
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:13:32 -0500, Jorge Biquez wrote: Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart between all OSs. And a question arrive to my mind... if for some reason, I know it is impossible, but if for some reason FreeBSD would stop existing... serious users of

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-23 Thread Polytropon
Allow me some short :-) comments. On Sun, 21 Aug 2011 16:18:50 -0400, Alejandro Imass wrote: Disagree. I've worked with FreeBSD since 6.2 and it's only been getting better and better. FreeBSD is getting faster and better whilst Linux really seems to have drifted from direction like you say.

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-23 Thread Alessandro Spinella
On 08/23/11 10:24, Polytropon wrote: On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 23:13:32 -0500, Jorge Biquez wrote: Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart between all OSs. And a question arrive to my mind... if for some reason, I know it is impossible, but if for some reason FreeBSD would

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-22 Thread David Demelier
On 21/08/2011 03:47, Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello. I insist Can we know what was the OS you all decided to use ? Thanks Jorge Biquez ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-22 Thread C. P. Ghost
On Sun, Aug 21, 2011 at 10:24 PM, Matthew Seaman m.sea...@infracaninophile.co.uk wrote: On 21/08/2011 05:13, Jorge Biquez wrote: if for some reason, I know it is impossible, but if for some reason FreeBSD would stop existing... serious users of FreeBSD, what would be your next OS? If the

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-21 Thread Ryan Coleman
On Aug 21, 2011, at 10:11 AM, Adam Vande More wrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 9:46 PM, Daniel Staal dst...@usa.net wrote: --As of August 20, 2011 7:01:07 PM -0700, Carl G Smith is alleged to have said: I have heard that the OS X OS is based on FreeBSD. Is this true? --As for the

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-21 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:13:32PM -0500, Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello. ;=) Thanks for the comments.. :=) No, I am curious what they decided to use that covers all the points , at least better that FreeBSD. Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart between all

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-21 Thread Christian Barthel
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 11:13:32PM -0500, Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello. ;=) Thanks for the comments.. :=) No, I am curious what they decided to use that covers all the points , at least better that FreeBSD. Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart between all

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-21 Thread Alejandro Imass
attention to the user experience. What breaks? Where? All of this adds up to a quality operating system in theory that does not translate into quality in reality. By this part of your post I think you boss simply doesn't like FreeBSD period. You don't have to come here and make up all

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-21 Thread Matthew Seaman
On 21/08/2011 05:13, Jorge Biquez wrote: if for some reason, I know it is impossible, but if for some reason FreeBSD would stop existing... serious users of FreeBSD, what would be your next OS? If the FreeBSD project disbanded (for some unimaginable reason), then I guess I'd have to choose an

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Test Rat
Evan Busch antiequal...@gmail.com writes: [...] Even when you get big parts of the operating system correct, it's the thousand little details that have been forgotten, ignored or snootily written off that add up to many hours of frustration for the end user. This is not necessary frustration,

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Odhiambo Washington
is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. Over the past few years, FreeBSD has drifted off-course in this department, in his view. Let me share the points he made that I consider valid (I have deleted two

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Open Slate Project
Perhaps you would be happier at an Apple Store. I lost you at documentation. Obviously you have not read the handbook, or one of the excellent books -- Absolute BSD for example. -- Gary Dunn, Honolulu Open Slate Project http://openslate.org http://www.facebook.com/openslate Twitter

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Zane C. B-H.
: What is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. Over the past few years, FreeBSD has drifted off-course in this department, in his view. Let me share the points he made that I consider valid (I have

SV: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Hasse Hansson
Happy Trolling :-) /Hasse -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] På vegne af Evan Busch Sendt: den 20 augusti 2011 06:47 Til: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Emne: A quality operating system Hi, I make decisions about

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Jorge Biquez
was considering FreeBSD because of greater stability and security. He asked me a question that stopped me dead: What is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. Over the past few years, FreeBSD has

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Jerry McAllister
operating system? One that works reliably - like FreeBSD. I hope it is confy under that bridge. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Dave Pooser
On 8/20/11 1:49 AM, Test Rat ttse...@gmail.com wrote: There is an ongoing discussion on arch@ about this. http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-arch/2011-August/011412.html Thanks for posting that link; it covered some of the reasons I'm retiring my office FreeBSD servers in favor of

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Conrad J. Sabatier
was considering FreeBSD because of greater stability and security. He asked me a question that stopped me dead: What is a quality operating system? In a word, FreeBSD. In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. You mean, like

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Michael Sierchio
My comments inline. Summary: utter rubbish. On Fri, Aug 19, 2011 at 9:47 PM, Evan Busch antiequal...@gmail.com wrote: (1) Lack of direction. FreeBSD is still not sure whether it is a desktop OS, or a server OS. Not at all the case. FreeBSD is a server OS. Desktop features get

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Michael Sierchio
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com wrote: 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, but that I *have* to is ridiculous. Updating a server should not be more difficult than yum update -- full stop. Are you lazy, or stupid? man

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Chad Perrin
operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. This is why I like FreeBSD, relative to MS Windows, Apple MacOS, or any Linux distribution I've encountered. Over the past few years, FreeBSD has drifted off-course

Re: A quality operating system Trolling For A Quality Operating System

2011-08-20 Thread mikel king
system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. Over the past few years, FreeBSD has drifted off-course in this department, in his view. Let me share the points he made that I consider valid (I have deleted two as trivial

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Polytropon
me dead: What is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system is reliable, streamlined and clearly organized. There's more: To me as a sysadmin and developer, documentation is also a quality indicator. FreeBSD has excellent manpages, and many

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Peter Hunčár
+10 I really like ppl thinking, that someone will create/develop/maitain an OS just for them. There are hundreds of chocices: OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD, + forks, Windoze, hundreds (and growing) of different linux distros, Solaris, Minix, vxworks, even MSDOS :) Feel free to choose. If there will be

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 12:12:00PM -0500, Dave Pooser wrote: 1) I really don't see the Handbook as all that great. It's great that a volunteer team put it together, but when I compare it to https://access.redhat.com/knowledge/docs/Red_Hat_Enterprise_Linux/ or

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of August 20, 2011 12:12:00 PM -0500, Dave Pooser is alleged to have said: 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, but that I *have* to is ridiculous. Updating a server should not be more difficult than yum update -- full stop. --As for the rest, it is mine.

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Jerry
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:09:53 -0700 Michael Sierchio articulated: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com wrote: 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, but that I *have* to is ridiculous. Updating a server should not be more

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of August 20, 2011 4:22:45 PM -0400, Jerry is alleged to have said: I have never wasted my time with it personally; however, I thought I read somewhere that it did not work if the user had built a custom kernel. From what I have seen written regarding it, you have to move the custom kernel

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Polytropon
On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 16:22:45 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Sat, 20 Aug 2011 11:09:53 -0700 Michael Sierchio articulated: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 10:12 AM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com wrote: 3) Updates are a mess. It's cool that I *can* compile a new kernel, but that I *have*

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Adam Vande More
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 3:39 PM, Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: That's correct. The freebsd-update program is _not_ to be used for few specific cases, i. e. the OS version is a -STABLE or even -CURRENT one, or the user is running a non-GENERIC kernel. In such cases, updating from source

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Dave Pooser
On 8/20/11 1:09 PM, Michael Sierchio ku...@tenebras.com wrote: Are you lazy, or stupid? man freebsd-update You know, someone more clever than you might have read enough of the message to realize that since I specifically referenced DTrace support as a FreeBSD advantage, I would have to be using

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Adam Vande More
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.comwrote: On 8/20/11 1:09 PM, Michael Sierchio ku...@tenebras.com wrote: Are you lazy, or stupid? man freebsd-update You know, someone more clever than you might have read enough of the message to realize that since I

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Dave Pooser
On 8/20/11 4:38 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote: freebsd-update works quite well and quickly on systems with a custom kernel with the additional caveat you *should* rebuild and install the kernel afterward, and even this isn't always necessary. This is assuming you're on RELEASE

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Fish Kungfu
Meanwhile, the OP has run away giggling like a juvenile who just threw a rock at a hornets nest. On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 6:39 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.comwrote: On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 5:27 PM, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.comwrote: On 8/20/11 1:09 PM, Michael Sierchio

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Patrick Lamaiziere
Le Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:46:58 -0500, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com a écrit : An honest question here-- how many people run production servers on RELEASE, never mind BETA? Mine has been running on STABLE, first 8.1 and then 8.2. Me! Because if it works, don't break it..

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Antonio Olivares
All of this adds up to a quality operating system in theory that does not translate into quality in reality. You alienate users and place the burden upon them to sort through your mess, then sneer at them. You alienate business, professional and artistic users with your insistence

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Ryan Coleman
I use FreeBSD 9, 8.2 and 8.1. OS X 10.7 (Lion) Windows 7 Professional (64-bit), Windows Vista Ultimate (64-bit) and Windows XP Professional (32-bit). iOS 4, Blackberry 6 and Android 2.2.2. Oh, you weren't asking me. Sorry. :-p On Aug 20, 2011, at 8:47 PM, Jorge Biquez wrote: Hello. I

RE: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Carl G Smith
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Antonio Olivares Sent: Saturday, August 20, 2011 6:06 PM To: Evan Busch Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: A quality operating system All of this adds up

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Mario Lobo
On Saturday 20 August 2011 19:47:07 Fish Kungfu wrote: Meanwhile, the OP has run away giggling like a juvenile who just threw a rock at a hornets nest. You bet! The OP (and Rob) were probably just bored, but Vadim Goncharov was definetly NOT! (Thanks Test Rat!)

RE: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of August 20, 2011 7:01:07 PM -0700, Carl G Smith is alleged to have said: I have heard that the OS X OS is based on FreeBSD. Is this true? --As for the rest, it is mine. Partially. It combines a mostly Mach kernel with some FreeBSD-derived userland and interfaces, then adds a

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Jorge Biquez
Hello. ;=) Thanks for the comments.. :=) No, I am curious what they decided to use that covers all the points , at least better that FreeBSD. Seriously I would like to see or hear about the comparison chart between all OSs. And a question arrive to my mind... if for some reason, I know

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-20 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Aug 20, 2011 at 05:12:19PM -0700, Randal L. Schwartz wrote: Duane == Duane Hill du...@duanemail.org writes: Duane Saturday, August 20, 2011, 6:23:05 PM, wrote: Le Sat, 20 Aug 2011 17:46:58 -0500, Dave Pooser dave-free...@pooserville.com a écrit : An honest question here-- how

A quality operating system

2011-08-19 Thread Evan Busch
types of UNIX (dating back quite some time) but also all Unix-like OSen. I told him I was considering FreeBSD because of greater stability and security. He asked me a question that stopped me dead: What is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating system

Re: A quality operating system

2011-08-19 Thread Gary Gatten
, not only all types of UNIX (dating back quite some time) but also all Unix-like OSen. I told him I was considering FreeBSD because of greater stability and security. He asked me a question that stopped me dead: What is a quality operating system? In his view, and now mine, a quality operating