Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-25 Thread Michael Cardell Widerkrantz
Gary Gatten ggat...@waddell.com, 2011-07-18 21:44 (+0200): I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. I'm not sure what you mean by fast here. It took a

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-24 Thread Dick Hoogendijk
Op 24-7-2011 2:00 schreef Jerry: On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 15:58:07 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: You are clearly an asshole who has no interest in having a reasonable discussion. Newer methods do not frighten me, you stupid asshole. Thanks Chad. At one time I thought you were intelligent with

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-23 Thread Chad Perrin
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 11:05:40AM -0400, Jerry wrote: On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:58:26 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: In fact, the NetworkManager set of network management tools has in some ways outdone the stupidities of MS Windows network management. Hey, this is stupid, but it's not

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-23 Thread Bruce Cran
On 23/07/2011 22:58, Chad Perrin wrote: Do you realize that MS Windows has nothing equivalent to rc.conf or /etc/network/interfaces? It does: it's in the registry. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces contains a list of interfaces and their settings.

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-23 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sat, Jul 23, 2011 at 11:25:10PM +0100, Bruce Cran wrote: On 23/07/2011 22:58, Chad Perrin wrote: Do you realize that MS Windows has nothing equivalent to rc.conf or /etc/network/interfaces? It does: it's in the registry. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-23 Thread Jerome Herman
On 24/07/2011 00:25, Bruce Cran wrote: On 23/07/2011 22:58, Chad Perrin wrote: Do you realize that MS Windows has nothing equivalent to rc.conf or /etc/network/interfaces? It does: it's in the registry. HKLM\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\services\Tcpip\Parameters\Interfaces contains a list of

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-23 Thread Jerry
On Sat, 23 Jul 2011 15:58:07 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: You are clearly an asshole who has no interest in having a reasonable discussion. Newer methods do not frighten me, you stupid asshole. Thanks Chad. At one time I thought you were intelligent with conflicting views. However, the more

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-22 Thread Polytropon
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 08:55:29 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:21:31 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: This is where we find a dividing line between users who want different things. Yes, you turn on your Win7 laptop (or wake it up) in a coffee shop, and it connects automagically

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-22 Thread Chad Perrin
On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:56:42AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: Want it like this? :-) ---http://xkcd.com/416/ That's exactly what I don't want. That is (an exaggeration of) what NetworkManager is trying to do and, predictably, it fails sometimes, just as MS Windows' automated network

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-22 Thread Polytropon
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:58:26 -0600, Chad Perrin wrote: I mean that its primary purpose is to try to guess what the user wants based on the developers' mental model of what users want, then tries to make it happen -- and, too often, the developers' mental model of what users want does not match

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-22 Thread Jerry
On Fri, 22 Jul 2011 06:58:26 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: On Fri, Jul 22, 2011 at 10:56:42AM +0200, Polytropon wrote: Want it like this? :-) ---http://xkcd.com/416/ That's exactly what I don't want. That is (an exaggeration of) what NetworkManager is trying to do and,

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-20 Thread Chad Perrin
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 08:55:29AM -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:21:31 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: This is where we find a dividing line between users who want different things. Yes, you turn on your Win7 laptop (or wake it up) in a coffee shop, and it connects

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-20 Thread Chad Perrin
On Tue, Jul 19, 2011 at 12:03:56PM -0600, Sam George wrote: Having come to BSD from Linux less than a month ago, I find it interesting that the very thing, which Mr. Pottering is encouraging in Linux development, is what has lead me to search for other options besides Linux. Of late

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-20 Thread Jerry
On Wed, 20 Jul 2011 14:29:41 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: If you turn off the automation that connects you to networks you do not want, you turn off the advantage you suggest FreeBSD needs. Maybe its a language thing; however, I am not comprehending what you are trying got say. You would,

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Polytropon
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 01:39:02 +0200, Jerome Herman wrote: On 19/07/2011 01:21, Gary Gatten wrote: snip This may get me flamed (probably will) but I'm wondering what the relationship is between FreeBSD and PC-BSD? PERHAPS if they were to somehow join forces, share development load, etc.

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Jerome Herman
On 19/07/2011 08:11, Polytropon wrote: On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 01:39:02 +0200, Jerome Herman wrote: On 19/07/2011 01:21, Gary Gatten wrote: snip This may get me flamed (probably will) but I'm wondering what the relationship is between FreeBSD and PC-BSD? PERHAPS if they were to somehow join

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Polytropon
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 11:20:29 +0200, Jerome Herman wrote: On 19/07/2011 08:11, Polytropon wrote: Arguing... what is easier at manually locating software using a web browser, manually downloading it and interactively holding the installer's hand while installing software? :-) Well, of course

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 21:21:31 -0600 Chad Perrin articulated: This is where we find a dividing line between users who want different things. Yes, you turn on your Win7 laptop (or wake it up) in a coffee shop, and it connects automagically -- in fact, you probably don't even realize it has

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:33:01 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: First of all, forgive me for top posting but I don't want to disturb the debate between Jerry and Polytropon. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I saved it in separate folder. It is just plain good reading, not only because of the

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:50:25 -0500 (CDT) Robert Bonomi articulated: Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:01:20 -0400 From: Jerry je...@seibercom.net Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:31:41 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Your TV example

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Eduardo Morras
At 11:20 19/07/2011, Jerome Herman wrote: A FreeBSD distro with LDAP, ACL and MAC management would be nice though. You could create a port that brings all this functionality in one rush. Remember that the ports collection is more than just about installing software - it can be used to even

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Sam George
On 7/17/2011 05:10, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Michael Sierchio
ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore Interestingly enough, a great deal of it is true. It might

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Jerry
On Tue, 19 Jul 2011 14:19:04 -0400 Michael Sierchio articulated: IMHO what has helped Linux is the existence of commercial distributions with support - Red Hat, SUSE, etc. The only attempts to do this for BSD have been undercapitalized and/or half-hearted. Yes, it is hard to sell a car sans

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-19 Thread Mario Lobo
On Tuesday 19 July 2011 10:06:22 Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:33:01 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: First of all, forgive me for top posting but I don't want to disturb the debate between Jerry and Polytropon. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I saved it in separate folder. It is

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread perryh
Joshua Isom jri...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergstr??m wrote: I hope gnome does [go Linux-only].. Maybe then more people would forget about it and focus on making KDE better ;) ... What about enlightenment? For us

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Joshua Isom
On 7/18/2011 8:05 AM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Joshua Isomjri...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergstr??m wrote: I hope gnome does [go Linux-only].. Maybe then more people would forget about it and focus on making KDE better

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread perryh
Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.comwrote: ... Name one cloud provider providing FreeBSD 8x or 9X to run as instances. I know

Fwd: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Aryeh Friedman
-- Forwarded message -- From: Aryeh Friedman aryeh.fried...@gmail.com Date: Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 3:16 AM Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore To: per...@pluto.rain.com That is the approach I am taking... RS's recommendation was we make a disk image

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Chad Perrin
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 07:10:59AM -0400, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Vande More
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.comwrote: Im pretty sure they are only XEN based and not cloud based per se, as there appears to be no elasticity on demand, Granted RootBSD is nice but on demand expansion of memory, cpu and disk under ones control is more

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 01:51:19 -0500, Joshua Isom wrote: On 7/18/2011 8:05 AM, per...@pluto.rain.com wrote: Joshua Isomjri...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergstr??m wrote: I hope gnome does [go Linux-only].. Maybe then more

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Christian Barthel
and functional! On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 07:10:59AM -0400, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread C. Bergström
On 07/18/11 03:02 PM, Adam Vande More wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:16 PM, Outback Dingooutbackdi...@gmail.comwrote: Im pretty sure they are only XEN based and not cloud based per se, as there appears to be no elasticity on demand, Granted RootBSD is nice but on demand expansion of

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Vande More
2011/7/18 C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com One of those links gives a 404 on the root domain Works for me. and the other on the pricing page (http://www.reliacloud.com/**pricing/http://www.reliacloud.com/pricing/ ) Not sure where you got that link. Use the menu. I'm not sure

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Gour-Gadadhara Dasa
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 10:05:41 +0200 Polytropon free...@edvax.de wrote: And furthermore, I've found some Linux users migrating AWAY from Linux, using FreeBSD instead. How can this be combined with Poettering's claim? I'm the one...using Linux since '99 (SuSE, Gentoo,Arch) and moved to PCBSD-9.0

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Peter Vereshagin
Hey Mr(s) freebsd-questions show some good to me! 2011/07/18 03:49:59 -0500 Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com = To C. Bergstr?m : AVM We all wish a lot of things. One of mine would be that people shouldn't AVM have strong opinions on subjects they know little to nothing about. It's about me

Re: [freebsd-questions] Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Howard Jones
On 18/07/2011 11:14, Gour-Gadadhara Dasa wrote: I'm the one...using Linux since '99 (SuSE, Gentoo,Arch) and moved to PCBSD-9.0 some months ago. I'm *very* happy and cannot believe how little time I spend doing admin work 'cause the OS 'just works'. Otoh, Linux was saga with *constant*

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:47:24 +0700 C. Bergström articulated: I wish people would spend as much time solving problems in *BSD as they do trying to defend an irrelevant OS ;) Personally, I wish they would spend more time in developing fully functional wireless drivers as opposed to simply

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:30:00 -0400, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not want to write or are not capable of writing. Other OS's are

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Aryeh Friedman
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 7:30 AM, Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:47:24 +0700 C. Bergström articulated: I wish people would spend as much time solving problems in *BSD as they do trying to defend an irrelevant OS ;) Personally, I wish they would spend more time in

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread C. Bergström
On 07/18/11 06:30 PM, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not want to write or are not capable of writing. Like a bounties page? (If such a

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Aryeh Friedman
Just a side note I am the managing partner in a software development firm and they *ONLY* reason we have not released the majority of our internal lib is because we are essentially giving something of huge value (to us) up for nothing in return but if there was money involved to compensate for the

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerome Herman
On 17/07/2011 15:02, C. Bergström wrote: On 07/17/11 07:43 PM, Dick Hoogendijk wrote: Op 17-7-2011 14:17 schreef Subbsd: community decreases. It is a pity that many developers of FreeBSD have left in Apple, the small part works over {NET,OPEN,DRAGONFLY}.BSD but as a whole it already

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jamie Paul Griffin
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 07:30:00AM -0400, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not want to write or are not capable of writing. Other OS's

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jamie Paul Griffin
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 07:30:00AM -0400, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not want to write or are not capable of writing. Other OS's

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Sergio de Almeida Lenzi
Em Seg, 2011-07-18 às 07:30 -0400, Jerry escreveu: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:47:24 +0700 C. Bergström articulated: I wish people would spend as much time solving problems in *BSD as they do trying to defend an irrelevant OS ;) Personally, I wish they would spend more time in developing

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Anton Shterenlikht
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 07:01:29PM +0700, C. Bergstr??m wrote: On 07/18/11 06:30 PM, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not want to write

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Peter Vereshagin
Hey Mr(s) freebsd-questions show some good to me! 2011/07/18 07:50:41 -0400 Aryeh Friedman aryeh.fried...@gmail.com = To FreeBSD : AF version number every 18 months +/-. I have two new laptops ion front of AF me that I cannot use FBSD on simply because they don't support the AF wireless (N

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 13:49:03 +0200 Polytropon articulated: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:30:00 -0400, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Frank Shute
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 01:49:03PM +0200, Polytropon wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 07:30:00 -0400, Jerry wrote: I suggested several years ago, and I will re-suggest that FreeBSD start a program that would allow programmers to be paid to write code that either the regular contributors do not

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 09:57:59 -0400, Jerry wrote: There are so many fundamental problems with the standards concept. For starters it limits or prevents basic product improvement or development. It the wireless A protocol were to have been made a standard then improvement on its deficiencies

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Chip Camden
Quoth per...@pluto.rain.com on Monday, 18 July 2011: Joshua Isom jri...@gmail.com wrote: On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergstr??m wrote: I hope gnome does [go Linux-only].. Maybe then more people would forget about it and focus on making

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:51:55 +0100 Frank Shute articulated: I like Jerry's proposal. The FreeBSD Foundation should organise their donations page so that you can donate to various different areas of development like TUG do: https://www.tug.org/donate.html It should be at least split into

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 11:10:30 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:51:55 +0100 Frank Shute articulated: I like Jerry's proposal. The FreeBSD Foundation should organise their donations page so that you can donate to various different areas of development like TUG do:

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread CyberLeo Kitsana
On 07/18/2011 06:50 AM, Aryeh Friedman wrote: The issue your talking about is actually caused by a fundamental flaw in *ALL* pure open source projects namely in return for the freedom to look at the code and stuff we give up market forces. Perhaps the benefits inherent in enriching the global

Re: [freebsd-questions] Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Adam Vande More
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Howard Jones ho...@thingy.com wrote: On 18/07/2011 11:14, Gour-Gadadhara Dasa wrote: Interesting - I'm in the process of switching our FreeBSD servers to Linux (Debian and CentOS), to get away from the packaging/ports mess :-) I've been spoilt by apt-get and

Re: [freebsd-questions] Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Howard Jones
On 18/07/2011 19:18, Adam Vande More wrote: On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 5:24 AM, Howard Jones ho...@thingy.com mailto:ho...@thingy.com wrote: On 18/07/2011 11:14, Gour-Gadadhara Dasa wrote: Interesting - I'm in the process of switching our FreeBSD servers to Linux (Debian and CentOS),

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Robison, Dave
usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Arthur Barlow
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:00:49 +0200 From: Jerome Herman jher...@dichotomia.fr Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: 4e242071.9050...@dichotomia.fr Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Bill Tillman
From: per...@pluto.rain.com per...@pluto.rain.com To: jri...@gmail.com; cbergst...@pathscale.com Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 9:05:47 AM Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore Joshua Isom jri...@gmail.com wrote

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Peter Vereshagin
: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org BT Sent: Mon, July 18, 2011 9:05:47 AM BT Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore BT BT Joshua Isom jri...@gmail.com wrote: BT On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: BT On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergstr??m wrote: BT I hope gnome does

RE: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Gary Gatten
snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. Not just on the desktop, but servers as well. Supported versions of Linux such as RHEL, Suse, etc. seem

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:58:08 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Here the circle closes: Without STANDARDS, you wouldn't be able to view the digital pictures you took with a camera 10 years ago because the manufacturer decided to use a proprietary image format without any documentation, as you

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:44:15 -0500 Gary Gatten articulated: snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. Not just on the desktop, but servers as

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:48:46 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:58:08 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Here the circle closes: Without STANDARDS, you wouldn't be able to view the digital pictures you took with a camera 10 years ago because the manufacturer decided to use a

RE: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Paul Schmehl
--On July 18, 2011 2:44:15 PM -0500 Gary Gatten ggat...@waddell.com wrote: snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. Not just on the desktop, but

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Paul Schmehl
On 07/17/2011 04:10, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 16:22:45 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:44:15 -0500 Gary Gatten articulated: snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 15:32:25 -0500, Paul Schmehl wrote: In short, some people chase the newest shiniest thing. Others prefer to stick with what works. Often, the newest shiniest folks, after they've gained some wisdom, move to the other camp. So you could well see a resurgence of BSD as

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Bruce Ferrell
On 07/18/2011 01:32 PM, Paul Schmehl wrote: --On July 18, 2011 2:44:15 PM -0500 Gary Gatten ggat...@waddell.com wrote: snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS,

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerome Herman
On 18/07/2011 22:22, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 14:44:15 -0500 Gary Gatten articulated: snip I've always been curious why Linux seemed to take off so fast when other FOSS / non Winblow$ OS's were available for some time with not much traction; OS/2, BeOS, *nix with X11, etc. Not just

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread perryh
Anton Shterenlikht me...@bristol.ac.uk wrote: We are pleased to announce a call for project proposals. We will accept proposals until February 15th. Please read Project Proposal Procedures to find out what needs to be included in your proposal. *end quote* Is this not what you want? This

RE: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Gary Gatten
snip This may get me flamed (probably will) but I'm wondering what the relationship is between FreeBSD and PC-BSD? PERHAPS if they were to somehow join forces, share development load, etc. and unify the FreeBSD offerings under one roof; ie: PC-BSD and SERVER-BSD. I believe several flavors of

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerome Herman
On 19/07/2011 01:21, Gary Gatten wrote: snip This may get me flamed (probably will) but I'm wondering what the relationship is between FreeBSD and PC-BSD? PERHAPS if they were to somehow join forces, share development load, etc. and unify the FreeBSD offerings under one roof; ie: PC-BSD and

RE: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Devin Teske
-Original Message- From: owner-freebsd-questi...@freebsd.org [mailto:owner-freebsd- questi...@freebsd.org] On Behalf Of Robison, Dave Sent: Monday, July 18, 2011 10:53 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore Using primarily

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Mario Lobo
Hi; First of all, forgive me for top posting but I don't want to disturb the debate between Jerry and Polytropon. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I saved it in separate folder. It is just plain good reading, not only because of the issue at hand, but also because of the elegance and

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:31:41 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Your TV example is very good. I've recently read a text that predicts the future of CDs - a text from the late 80's. When we consider what we are _currently_ using, the text predicting no important future for CDs looks quite funny.

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Mario Lobo
Hi; First of all, forgive me for top posting but I don't want to disturb the debate between Jerry and Polytropon. In fact, I enjoyed it so much that I saved it in separate folder. It is just plain good reading, not only because of the issue at hand, but also because of the elegance and

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Chad Perrin
On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 04:22:45PM -0400, Jerry wrote: I think the explanation is rather simple, Give the user what he wants, not what you think he wants. You are never going to satisfy every conceivable user, so concentrate on the core users. Microsoft has done that extremely well. On the

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Robert Bonomi
Date: Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:01:20 -0400 From: Jerry je...@seibercom.net Subject: Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:31:41 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Your TV example is very good. I've recently read a text that predicts the future of CDs - a text

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-18 Thread Polytropon
On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 20:01:20 -0400, Jerry wrote: On Mon, 18 Jul 2011 22:31:41 +0200 Polytropon articulated: Your TV example is very good. I've recently read a text that predicts the future of CDs - a text from the late 80's. When we consider what we are _currently_ using, the text

Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Jerry
While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Jens Jahnke
Hi, On Sun, 17 Jul 2011 07:10:59 -0400 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: J Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore J J http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243/Lennart-Poettering-BSD-Isnt-Relevant-Anymore J J Interestingly enough, a great deal of it is true. It might be J

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Svein Skogen (Listmail account)
On 17.07.2011 13:10, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Subbsd
Hi All of us know that in many cases BSD do not concede technically Linux. However is the fact. The quantity of the companies using FreeBSD catastrophically decreases! In what a problem? As I see one of popularization's problems - there is no information on innovations (DTRACE, ccTCP, VIMAGE,

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Dick Hoogendijk
Op 17-7-2011 14:17 schreef Subbsd: community decreases. It is a pity that many developers of FreeBSD have left in Apple, the small part works over {NET,OPEN,DRAGONFLY}.BSD but as a whole it already absolutely small small groups of people. And do you feel this will be the end of FreeBSD?

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Fernando Apesteguía
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 1:10 PM, Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread C. Bergström
On 07/17/11 07:43 PM, Dick Hoogendijk wrote: Op 17-7-2011 14:17 schreef Subbsd: community decreases. It is a pity that many developers of FreeBSD have left in Apple, the small part works over {NET,OPEN,DRAGONFLY}.BSD but as a whole it already absolutely small small groups of people. And do

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread C. Bergström
On 07/17/11 07:24 PM, Fernando Apesteguía wrote: However, what worries me is how influential he is in some open source projects. He suggested that Gnome should be Linux specific because trying to keep compatibility with other UNIX systems (BSD for example) holds them from going further in the

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Daniel Staal
--As of July 17, 2011 8:13:13 PM +0700, C. Bergström is alleged to have said: 1) Why care about *BSD as a desktop? 2) Why care about *BSD as a workstation? (Which I see as a next level in stability/usability beyond a toy desktop) --As for the rest, it is mine. Because it is easier to get

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Dennis Glatting
On Sun, 17 Jul 2011, Jerry wrote: While I usually consider Slashdot nothing more than a bunch of juveniles ranting against Microsoft; however, I did find this rather interesting post this morning. Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore http://bsd.slashdot.org/story/11/07/16/0020243

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Fernando Apesteguía
2011/7/17 C. Bergström cbergst...@pathscale.com:  On 07/17/11 07:24 PM, Fernando Apesteguía wrote: However, what worries me is how influential he is in some open source projects. He suggested that Gnome should be Linux specific because trying to keep compatibility with other UNIX systems (BSD

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Outback Dingo
The FreeBSD pieces work better. Does Linux have some advantages? Yes. Does FreeBSD have some deficiencies? Yes. There, I said it. I'm over it now. ++1 I completely agree, as a server OS FreeBSD hands down rocks The only reason i can see netcraft making suh states is because of

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Mario Lobo
On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergström wrote: In the specific case about Gnome - really if you care so much then you can submit patches and contribute. If nobody is willing to do the work (scratch the itch) then ultimately it really doesn't matter. I hope gnome does do this.. Maybe

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Joshua Isom
On 7/17/2011 6:16 PM, Mario Lobo wrote: On Sunday 17 July 2011 10:13:13 C. Bergström wrote: In the specific case about Gnome - really if you care so much then you can submit patches and contribute. If nobody is willing to do the work (scratch the itch) then ultimately it really doesn't matter.

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Adam Vande More
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.comwrote: and cloud computing instances anyway, Name one cloud provider providing FreeBSD 8x or 9X to run as instances. I know of one coming... question is are there others There are plenty already. Rootbsd for one,

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Outback Dingo
On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.comwrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 2:28 PM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.comwrote: and cloud computing instances anyway, Name one cloud provider providing FreeBSD 8x or 9X to run as instances. I know of one coming...

Re: Lennart Poettering: BSD Isn't Relevant Anymore

2011-07-17 Thread Aryeh Friedman
I am working on making a general purpose image for XEN (specifically for rack space but since it is a common framework attempting to make it vendor neutral) On Mon, Jul 18, 2011 at 12:16 AM, Outback Dingo outbackdi...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 17, 2011 at 11:03 PM, Adam Vande More