Re: Out of the frying pan...
John wrote: On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 11:35:49PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 09:57 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:47:13PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely Thanks for your response, Joshua! Well, your answer is very reasonable given the information I supplied, but it is not what's happening. I can have my Windoze work-owned laptop next to it on the table, and it will load up these pages in a snap. Konqueror isn't getting any data - it sits there with nothing happening - no data coming across the network. You may have an issue with DNS. You should have DNS servers listed in your /etc/resolv.conf, like this: nameserver 888.888.888.888 (the number is an example - you should use your ISP's nameserver or your internal one, if you've set it up) Is this also an issue with other browsers or network software? If you haven't done so already, you should try Firefox or Opera and see if Konqueror is the problem. Opera does not have this problem. It appears to be unique to Konqueror. Odd - but I was going to shop around for a different browser, anyway. Month late, kilodollars short. Probably I'm just griping, but some food for thought: Oh, the cruft that gets put on the WWW these daze. ActiveX, Java applets, Flash, bla bla ... unless you're sure that you were only looking at sites displaying *relatively compliant* (X)HTML, you can't trust just any site to work on just any browser without a lot of often hair-raising work in browser configuration and installation of plugins. There's a whole bunch of $PLURAL_ADJECTIVE_NOUN out there who don't know about standards and don't care, and they are quite responsible for a number of my griefs with browsers on FreeBSD. The other day I followed a link that led to some site with an Any Da _ _ Browser logo. Loved the thought, and we should all do that --- there are standards. But, of course, I can't use that graphic on most of my sites Kevin Kinsey ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 01:20:58AM -0500, Timothy Luoma wrote: On Jan 13, 2005, at 5:18 PM, John wrote: Yeah - thinking about that - but should I really need SEVERAL Gb to support the environment I want? Maybe... FWIW, the day after Thanksgiving, BestBuy had a 250GB drive for $80 after $100 rebate. Even if you can't find a deal that good, your time is worth money, and if financially possible, even $50 will get you a nice large hard drive these days and you can completely segregate Windows onto another drive if you want. (Then again, I bought the drive basically on principle because it was such a good deal, then I ended up buying a new desktop to put it in, so you never know where these things will lead... but fortunately for me it led me to finally have a 100% FreeBSD box) Sounds like you've since got it working, glad to hear it. Thanks for the info. I bet those weren't LAPTOP hard drives at those prices, though... On my servers, I have a couple of 73Gb (SCSI) drives... -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 11:35:49PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 09:57 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:47:13PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely Thanks for your response, Joshua! Well, your answer is very reasonable given the information I supplied, but it is not what's happening. I can have my Windoze work-owned laptop next to it on the table, and it will load up these pages in a snap. Konqueror isn't getting any data - it sits there with nothing happening - no data coming across the network. You may have an issue with DNS. You should have DNS servers listed in your /etc/resolv.conf, like this: nameserver 888.888.888.888 Well, I have a local-caching DNS server running on my gateway/NAT/ firewall FreeBSD system. DHCP is correctly populating /etc/resolv.conf with the correct value. SOME web sites work great, others show this very bawky behaivor. A Windows laptop running on the same network referring to the same local DNS server has no such problem. I can set them up side-by-side, and the results are deterministic and predictable. I've seen DNS problems cause some pretty bizarre behaviors, so I hate to dismiss this out-of-hand, but I think these facts argue against a DNS configuration issue, but I could easily be missing something. (the number is an example - you should use your ISP's nameserver or your internal one, if you've set it up) Using the internal one, as noted above, same as the Windows laptop uses. Is this also an issue with other browsers or network software? If you haven't done so already, you should try Firefox or Opera and see if Konqueror is the problem. Yes - I will load them up and try them. sure about that, but the upshot is that the browser doesn't know what the whole page will look like until an image downloads, as there are often page elements which depend on the placement of other elements to determine their own placement. However, AFAIK this is also considered a bug, because Konqueror doesn't handle this issue gracefully, so (again AFAIR) this is something that the KDE project is working to correct. I seem to remember something about this waiting until KDE version 4, however. I don't speak for them, so apologies if this isn't entirely correct. So - now back to where things were before my fatal load of Win 98. 1) Figure out Sound FreeBSD 2) Figure out browers and Plugins for FreeBSD 3) Try to get some of apm/acpi working 4) Figure out WHY the system won't recognize (not even IDENTIFY) a CD in my laptop multi-bay Have you tried mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Oh, yeah - it's not in dmesgs. 4.x used to at least have an atapi-slave ID timeout, but this doesn't even do that - the kernel just pauses and goes on without any message. It's pretty bizarre - 4.x would boot and actually INSTALL from the CD, but when you booted from the hard drive, I'd get the ID timeout message. 5.x boots from the CD, but then can't even install from it. I boot the CD, then eject it, bring it to another system, and NFS mount it to complete the installation. Kludgy, but it works. OK when I'm at home with the other systems, but not much good when I'm traveling with the laptop... ;) That's strange. It appears to mount the CD and then unmount it, though I'm not sure. Do you have the correct drivers for your CD? You've probably been through that, but can't hurt to mention it. I appreciate thoroughness. BTW, most of this stuff is covered extensively in the handbook, but unfortunately I've never had much luck with ACPI, mostly due to my hardware. Yup - I was just making a little to do list, in case anyone had any caveats to yell out. I've already heard from the folks on the ACPI list - I have some to do's to try. Good luck. There be dragons. Yeah... you got that right! -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Re: Out of the frying pan...
John wrote: [ ... ] Well, I have a local-caching DNS server running on my gateway/NAT/ firewall FreeBSD system. DHCP is correctly populating /etc/resolv.conf with the correct value. SOME web sites work great, others show this very bawky behaivor. A Windows laptop running on the same network referring to the same local DNS server has no such problem. I can set them up side-by-side, and the results are deterministic and predictable. Try restarting named using the -4 flag to restrict it to doing IPv4 queries only, rather than permitting IPv6 as well, and see whether that makes a difference. -- -Chuck ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Sun, Jan 16, 2005 at 06:21:32PM -0500, Chuck Swiger wrote: John wrote: [ ... ] Well, I have a local-caching DNS server running on my gateway/NAT/ firewall FreeBSD system. DHCP is correctly populating /etc/resolv.conf with the correct value. SOME web sites work great, others show this very bawky behaivor. A Windows laptop running on the same network referring to the same local DNS server has no such problem. I can set them up side-by-side, and the results are deterministic and predictable. Try restarting named using the -4 flag to restrict it to doing IPv4 queries only, rather than permitting IPv6 as well, and see whether that makes a difference. Worthy of a shot, but no joy. Thanks for the suggestion, though. -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 11:35:49PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 09:57 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:47:13PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely Thanks for your response, Joshua! Well, your answer is very reasonable given the information I supplied, but it is not what's happening. I can have my Windoze work-owned laptop next to it on the table, and it will load up these pages in a snap. Konqueror isn't getting any data - it sits there with nothing happening - no data coming across the network. You may have an issue with DNS. You should have DNS servers listed in your /etc/resolv.conf, like this: nameserver 888.888.888.888 (the number is an example - you should use your ISP's nameserver or your internal one, if you've set it up) Is this also an issue with other browsers or network software? If you haven't done so already, you should try Firefox or Opera and see if Konqueror is the problem. Opera does not have this problem. It appears to be unique to Konqueror. Odd - but I was going to shop around for a different browser, anyway. -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 03:34:26PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Friday 14 January 2005 02:12 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 01:32:03PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Friday 14 January 2005 12:23 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Benjamin Walkenhorst wrote: Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Yes, I would say that the source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3-STABLE was fine, it was the xorg/XFree86 and kde issues that made me insane. It's possible that I should have just done a pkg_delete -a and started over with the packages from that point, but I also need to learn to use pkg_upgrade. I would not hesitate to do the source upgrade again for a system which is NOT running X. I have now reinstalled 5.3, just to get around the Xorg-XFree86 issue, and I have kde installed, and I have room to spare. So, I'm much farther than I was when I ran out of room, and I still have room. This is a good thing! Yes it is! (...and speaking as someone who is typing with 2 fractured wrists, all good news is welcome!) Oh, no! I'd ask what happened, but I'll wait until you're healed up... Indoor soccer injury -- the floor is concrete. I hope you have lots of fun and joy with your system before the next challenge (which we will gladly participate in) ! OK, well, it seems I spoke just a little bit too soon. Or, maybe I'm OK, but just worried. I downloaded and burned an ISO 5.3 CD. I did a minimal install, NFS mounted all the 5-stable packages I kept from the last time around (I'm not a COMPLETE idiot!) and simply did a pkg_add kde-lite*. That got me a long, long ways. I also needed to do a pkg_add xorg-server* but I think nearly everything else got loaded up. I was in great shape in terms of disk footprint and everything else I can tell from here. Now, at this point, I'm running FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE, but I've installed packages from FreeBSD 5-STABLE, but if my understanding is correct, that should be OK. This is the point at which things got interesting. I did the pkg_add for OOo - and found that I was missing four dependent packages. As luck would have it, all four of them have been updated since I started this process, so I downloaded and installed the newer revv'ed ones, but I got an error message that something (I wished I'd trapped the output) wanted libm.so.2. When I look around, I find that I have libm.so.3. The four packages were atk, pango, shared-mime-info, and gtk-2. I think one of the post-install scripts complained that it couldn't run something, Am I preparing trouble, or am I OK? Despite the warning, everything seems to be installing. Obviously, I wasn't able to install the newer packages as dependencies, but after installing them by hand, the things on which they depended seem to be installing OK, though with warnings. Anyway, I have everything installed, (except maybe a JDK - any suggestions?) and I'm at 80% in my combined root /usr partition, which feels a little tighter than I would like, but I do still have 270Mb free, so that's not too bad - that's larger than my first FreeBSD hard drive! :) OO just finished. Other than 16 packages that are newer than expected, it seems to have installed. I'm not actually with the machine, so I can't start X and kde and try it. Am I OK, or should I start over and redo something? If the package finished installing, everything may be okay (no guarantees). Create a list of frequent tasks in OpenOffice; and run OpenOffice through its paces. YIPPEE!!! Two more hurdles cleared, and I'm up and running! I learned two lessons: 1) Don't depend on dependencies 2) startx is still your friend With the first one, I was having X mess up my screen completely, and not having it be restored when I tried to return to my virtual terminal on doing an X -configure xorg.config.new. Checking the log files revealed that the there mkfontdir wasn't loaded. I had done a pkg_add kde-lite* and expected it to take care of all the dependencies. That was not the case. Parts of x.org were loaded, but not all of it. That was quickly corrected by doing a pkg_add xord-6.8* of the meta package to get the rest of the pieces. The next one was really strange. kde would start, but in the middle of initializing, it would simply go away. Using startx to get things rolling, I captured the error message. Somehow, /tmp/.ICE was owned by my personal uid rather than root, which kde found unacceptable. Not sure how that happened. I certainly didn't create it by hand. I may have installed the package
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely sure about that, but the upshot is that the browser doesn't know what the whole page will look like until an image downloads, as there are often page elements which depend on the placement of other elements to determine their own placement. However, AFAIK this is also considered a bug, because Konqueror doesn't handle this issue gracefully, so (again AFAIR) this is something that the KDE project is working to correct. I seem to remember something about this waiting until KDE version 4, however. I don't speak for them, so apologies if this isn't entirely correct. So - now back to where things were before my fatal load of Win 98. 1) Figure out Sound FreeBSD 2) Figure out browers and Plugins for FreeBSD 3) Try to get some of apm/acpi working 4) Figure out WHY the system won't recognize (not even IDENTIFY) a CD in my laptop multi-bay Have you tried mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom You've probably been through that, but can't hurt to mention it. BTW, most of this stuff is covered extensively in the handbook, but unfortunately I've never had much luck with ACPI, mostly due to my hardware. Those were all issues before my switch to 5.3. I have a functional laptop again! YAY! Thanks to all, especially you, Andrew, typing with your poor wrists! It sounds like so far so good. I know the feeling. - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:47:13PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely Thanks for your response, Joshua! Well, your answer is very reasonable given the information I supplied, but it is not what's happening. I can have my Windoze work-owned laptop next to it on the table, and it will load up these pages in a snap. Konqueror isn't getting any data - it sits there with nothing happening - no data coming across the network. sure about that, but the upshot is that the browser doesn't know what the whole page will look like until an image downloads, as there are often page elements which depend on the placement of other elements to determine their own placement. However, AFAIK this is also considered a bug, because Konqueror doesn't handle this issue gracefully, so (again AFAIR) this is something that the KDE project is working to correct. I seem to remember something about this waiting until KDE version 4, however. I don't speak for them, so apologies if this isn't entirely correct. So - now back to where things were before my fatal load of Win 98. 1) Figure out Sound FreeBSD 2) Figure out browers and Plugins for FreeBSD 3) Try to get some of apm/acpi working 4) Figure out WHY the system won't recognize (not even IDENTIFY) a CD in my laptop multi-bay Have you tried mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Oh, yeah - it's not in dmesgs. 4.x used to at least have an atapi-slave ID timeout, but this doesn't even do that - the kernel just pauses and goes on without any message. It's pretty bizarre - 4.x would boot and actually INSTALL from the CD, but when you booted from the hard drive, I'd get the ID timeout message. 5.x boots from the CD, but then can't even install from it. I boot the CD, then eject it, bring it to another system, and NFS mount it to complete the installation. Kludgy, but it works. OK when I'm at home with the other systems, but not much good when I'm traveling with the laptop... ;) You've probably been through that, but can't hurt to mention it. I appreciate thoroughness. BTW, most of this stuff is covered extensively in the handbook, but unfortunately I've never had much luck with ACPI, mostly due to my hardware. Yup - I was just making a little to do list, in case anyone had any caveats to yell out. I've already heard from the folks on the ACPI list - I have some to do's to try. Those were all issues before my switch to 5.3. I have a functional laptop again! YAY! Thanks to all, especially you, Andrew, typing with your poor wrists! It sounds like so far so good. I know the feeling. - jt -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Jan 13, 2005, at 5:18 PM, John wrote: Yeah - thinking about that - but should I really need SEVERAL Gb to support the environment I want? Maybe... FWIW, the day after Thanksgiving, BestBuy had a 250GB drive for $80 after $100 rebate. Even if you can't find a deal that good, your time is worth money, and if financially possible, even $50 will get you a nice large hard drive these days and you can completely segregate Windows onto another drive if you want. (Then again, I bought the drive basically on principle because it was such a good deal, then I ended up buying a new desktop to put it in, so you never know where these things will lead... but fortunately for me it led me to finally have a 100% FreeBSD box) Sounds like you've since got it working, glad to hear it. TjL ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Saturday 15 January 2005 09:57 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Jan 15, 2005 at 09:47:13PM -0800, Joshua Tinnin wrote: On Saturday 15 January 2005 07:23 pm, John [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh, and figure out WHAT is going on with Konqueror. On some web sites, it is just fine and dandy, but on other web sites, it just is GLACIAL. I'm talking about MINUTES to render a page. The CPU isn't busy, there's no IO going on - I have NO IDEA what it is waiting for. It's so bad, it stretches credibility. Then, as I said, on other web sites, it's just fine. Sometimes is stops with 94% loaded and just waits a couple minutes - sometimes it pauses with like 12 out of 19 image loaded, and sometimes it pauses just as soon as it resolves the new URL and connects to the server. VERY odd. Well, it just told you what's happening. It's waiting to load some images and the page won't render until it happens. IIRC, this happens because of image tags without size parameters, though I'm not entirely Thanks for your response, Joshua! Well, your answer is very reasonable given the information I supplied, but it is not what's happening. I can have my Windoze work-owned laptop next to it on the table, and it will load up these pages in a snap. Konqueror isn't getting any data - it sits there with nothing happening - no data coming across the network. You may have an issue with DNS. You should have DNS servers listed in your /etc/resolv.conf, like this: nameserver 888.888.888.888 (the number is an example - you should use your ISP's nameserver or your internal one, if you've set it up) Is this also an issue with other browsers or network software? If you haven't done so already, you should try Firefox or Opera and see if Konqueror is the problem. sure about that, but the upshot is that the browser doesn't know what the whole page will look like until an image downloads, as there are often page elements which depend on the placement of other elements to determine their own placement. However, AFAIK this is also considered a bug, because Konqueror doesn't handle this issue gracefully, so (again AFAIR) this is something that the KDE project is working to correct. I seem to remember something about this waiting until KDE version 4, however. I don't speak for them, so apologies if this isn't entirely correct. So - now back to where things were before my fatal load of Win 98. 1) Figure out Sound FreeBSD 2) Figure out browers and Plugins for FreeBSD 3) Try to get some of apm/acpi working 4) Figure out WHY the system won't recognize (not even IDENTIFY) a CD in my laptop multi-bay Have you tried mount -t cd9660 /dev/acd0 /cdrom Oh, yeah - it's not in dmesgs. 4.x used to at least have an atapi-slave ID timeout, but this doesn't even do that - the kernel just pauses and goes on without any message. It's pretty bizarre - 4.x would boot and actually INSTALL from the CD, but when you booted from the hard drive, I'd get the ID timeout message. 5.x boots from the CD, but then can't even install from it. I boot the CD, then eject it, bring it to another system, and NFS mount it to complete the installation. Kludgy, but it works. OK when I'm at home with the other systems, but not much good when I'm traveling with the laptop... ;) That's strange. It appears to mount the CD and then unmount it, though I'm not sure. Do you have the correct drivers for your CD? You've probably been through that, but can't hurt to mention it. I appreciate thoroughness. BTW, most of this stuff is covered extensively in the handbook, but unfortunately I've never had much luck with ACPI, mostly due to my hardware. Yup - I was just making a little to do list, in case anyone had any caveats to yell out. I've already heard from the folks on the ACPI list - I have some to do's to try. Good luck. There be dragons. - jt ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Kind regards, Benjamin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Benjamin Walkenhorst wrote: Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Yes, I would say that the source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3-STABLE was fine, it was the xorg/XFree86 and kde issues that made me insane. It's possible that I should have just done a pkg_delete -a and started over with the packages from that point, but I also need to learn to use pkg_upgrade. I would not hesitate to do the source upgrade again for a system which is NOT running X. I have now reinstalled 5.3, just to get around the Xorg-XFree86 issue, and I have kde installed, and I have room to spare. So, I'm much farther than I was when I ran out of room, and I still have room. This is a good thing! Kind regards, Benjamin -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Friday 14 January 2005 12:23 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Benjamin Walkenhorst wrote: Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Yes, I would say that the source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3-STABLE was fine, it was the xorg/XFree86 and kde issues that made me insane. It's possible that I should have just done a pkg_delete -a and started over with the packages from that point, but I also need to learn to use pkg_upgrade. I would not hesitate to do the source upgrade again for a system which is NOT running X. I have now reinstalled 5.3, just to get around the Xorg-XFree86 issue, and I have kde installed, and I have room to spare. So, I'm much farther than I was when I ran out of room, and I still have room. This is a good thing! Yes it is! (...and speaking as someone who is typing with 2 fractured wrists, all good news is welcome!) Kind regards, Benjamin I hope you have lots of fun and joy with your system before the next challenge (which we will gladly participate in) ! Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 01:32:03PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Friday 14 January 2005 12:23 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Benjamin Walkenhorst wrote: Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Yes, I would say that the source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3-STABLE was fine, it was the xorg/XFree86 and kde issues that made me insane. It's possible that I should have just done a pkg_delete -a and started over with the packages from that point, but I also need to learn to use pkg_upgrade. I would not hesitate to do the source upgrade again for a system which is NOT running X. I have now reinstalled 5.3, just to get around the Xorg-XFree86 issue, and I have kde installed, and I have room to spare. So, I'm much farther than I was when I ran out of room, and I still have room. This is a good thing! Yes it is! (...and speaking as someone who is typing with 2 fractured wrists, all good news is welcome!) Oh, no! I'd ask what happened, but I'll wait until you're healed up... I hope you have lots of fun and joy with your system before the next challenge (which we will gladly participate in) ! OK, well, it seems I spoke just a little bit too soon. Or, maybe I'm OK, but just worried. I downloaded and burned an ISO 5.3 CD. I did a minimal install, NFS mounted all the 5-stable packages I kept from the last time around (I'm not a COMPLETE idiot!) and simply did a pkg_add kde-lite*. That got me a long, long ways. I also needed to do a pkg_add xorg-server* but I think nearly everything else got loaded up. I was in great shape in terms of disk footprint and everything else I can tell from here. Now, at this point, I'm running FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE, but I've installed packages from FreeBSD 5-STABLE, but if my understanding is correct, that should be OK. This is the point at which things got interesting. I did the pkg_add for OOo - and found that I was missing four dependent packages. As luck would have it, all four of them have been updated since I started this process, so I downloaded and installed the newer revv'ed ones, but I got an error message that something (I wished I'd trapped the output) wanted libm.so.2. When I look around, I find that I have libm.so.3. The four packages were atk, pango, shared-mime-info, and gtk-2. I think one of the post-install scripts complained that it couldn't run something, Am I preparing trouble, or am I OK? Despite the warning, everything seems to be installing. Obviously, I wasn't able to install the newer packages as dependencies, but after installing them by hand, the things on which they depended seem to be installing OK, though with warnings. Anyway, I have everything installed, (except maybe a JDK - any suggestions?) and I'm at 80% in my combined root /usr partition, which feels a little tighter than I would like, but I do still have 270Mb free, so that's not too bad - that's larger than my first FreeBSD hard drive! :) OO just finished. Other than 16 packages that are newer than expected, it seems to have installed. I'm not actually with the machine, so I can't start X and kde and try it. Am I OK, or should I start over and redo something? -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Friday 14 January 2005 02:12 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 01:32:03PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Friday 14 January 2005 12:23 pm, John wrote: On Fri, Jan 14, 2005 at 06:19:20PM +0100, Benjamin Walkenhorst wrote: Hello, Andrew L. Gould wrote: 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Just a sidenote, I did a source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3, which basically worked okay. Switching from XFree to X.org was really troublesome, on the other hand... Yes, I would say that the source upgrade from 5.2.1 to 5.3-STABLE was fine, it was the xorg/XFree86 and kde issues that made me insane. It's possible that I should have just done a pkg_delete -a and started over with the packages from that point, but I also need to learn to use pkg_upgrade. I would not hesitate to do the source upgrade again for a system which is NOT running X. I have now reinstalled 5.3, just to get around the Xorg-XFree86 issue, and I have kde installed, and I have room to spare. So, I'm much farther than I was when I ran out of room, and I still have room. This is a good thing! Yes it is! (...and speaking as someone who is typing with 2 fractured wrists, all good news is welcome!) Oh, no! I'd ask what happened, but I'll wait until you're healed up... Indoor soccer injury -- the floor is concrete. I hope you have lots of fun and joy with your system before the next challenge (which we will gladly participate in) ! OK, well, it seems I spoke just a little bit too soon. Or, maybe I'm OK, but just worried. I downloaded and burned an ISO 5.3 CD. I did a minimal install, NFS mounted all the 5-stable packages I kept from the last time around (I'm not a COMPLETE idiot!) and simply did a pkg_add kde-lite*. That got me a long, long ways. I also needed to do a pkg_add xorg-server* but I think nearly everything else got loaded up. I was in great shape in terms of disk footprint and everything else I can tell from here. Now, at this point, I'm running FreeBSD 5.3-RELEASE, but I've installed packages from FreeBSD 5-STABLE, but if my understanding is correct, that should be OK. This is the point at which things got interesting. I did the pkg_add for OOo - and found that I was missing four dependent packages. As luck would have it, all four of them have been updated since I started this process, so I downloaded and installed the newer revv'ed ones, but I got an error message that something (I wished I'd trapped the output) wanted libm.so.2. When I look around, I find that I have libm.so.3. The four packages were atk, pango, shared-mime-info, and gtk-2. I think one of the post-install scripts complained that it couldn't run something, Am I preparing trouble, or am I OK? Despite the warning, everything seems to be installing. Obviously, I wasn't able to install the newer packages as dependencies, but after installing them by hand, the things on which they depended seem to be installing OK, though with warnings. Anyway, I have everything installed, (except maybe a JDK - any suggestions?) and I'm at 80% in my combined root /usr partition, which feels a little tighter than I would like, but I do still have 270Mb free, so that's not too bad - that's larger than my first FreeBSD hard drive! :) OO just finished. Other than 16 packages that are newer than expected, it seems to have installed. I'm not actually with the machine, so I can't start X and kde and try it. Am I OK, or should I start over and redo something? If the package finished installing, everything may be okay (no guarantees). Create a list of frequent tasks in OpenOffice; and run OpenOffice through its paces. Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Out of the frying pan...
I just keep painting myself into corners, and I'm hoping that people can point out some (presumably dumb) things that I am doing, and recommend a course of action that will get me back to where I want to be. I have a Compaq Armada M700 on which I had installed FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE (as of February, 2004) and life was pretty good. There were a few annoyance, but it was a useful working environment. I didn't have Java running, I probably needed to find a better browser than Konqeror, and the sound, touch-pad, and suspend/resume functions didn't work, so there were things I would have liked to have improved. All that changed when I tried to install Win98SE in the lower partition I had reserved for that purpose. It totally trashed my / (with /usr) filesystem, though leaving /home (and /var) alone. [ I bit the bullet and bought Windows XP Home, which installed fine - but that's for my kids - I want my FreeBSD! ] This seemed like a good time to move forward. I had a set of 5.2.1 CD's, so I installed them. Things didn't work very well. Part of it was ACPI problems I didn't correctly recognize, but my biggest problem was that I couldn't get OpenOffice to install, because it had moved to Xorg from XFree86, along with FreeBSD 5.3. I had a slower, desktop machine with a plenty of disk space, so I loaded up the source distribution from 5.2.1, cvsup'ed to -STABLE, did a buildworld, buildkernel, mounted /usr/src and /usr/obj via NFS, and upgraded the laptop to 5.3. Since then, I've been playing a challenging game of update the package to try to get all the requisite packages for Xorg and kde in place (not to mention OpenOffice, and I'm not even there yet). Have you already guessed my problem? My / and /usr single filesystem, which is 1.5Gb in size, that had been about 80% full with XFree86, kde, fvwm, and OpenOffice is now 101% full and I haven't even gotten all of kde installed (and all the dependent packages), let alone OpenOffice. I see my options as this: 1) Try to figure out the dependency trees for kde, install kde-lite instead, and rip out the packages I don't need (theoretically possible - but feasible?) 2) Back up /home, reinstall a minimum 5.2.1 system, do the installworld and installkernel again, and then do the install of the kde (or kde-lite) then restore /home (but how much larger do I need to make / and /usr?) 3) Buy or build a 5.3 installation set, and redo the installation, using only the distributions I need, and hope it fits. Other suggestions? Anything obvious I'm missing? You folks have been extrememly helpful so far, so I'm hoping there's a good solution I'm just missing! -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Thursday 13 January 2005 03:24 pm, John wrote: I just keep painting myself into corners, and I'm hoping that people can point out some (presumably dumb) things that I am doing, and recommend a course of action that will get me back to where I want to be. I have a Compaq Armada M700 on which I had installed FreeBSD 4.9-STABLE (as of February, 2004) and life was pretty good. There were a few annoyance, but it was a useful working environment. I didn't have Java running, I probably needed to find a better browser than Konqeror, and the sound, touch-pad, and suspend/resume functions didn't work, so there were things I would have liked to have improved. All that changed when I tried to install Win98SE in the lower partition I had reserved for that purpose. It totally trashed my / (with /usr) filesystem, though leaving /home (and /var) alone. [ I bit the bullet and bought Windows XP Home, which installed fine - but that's for my kids - I want my FreeBSD! ] This seemed like a good time to move forward. I had a set of 5.2.1 CD's, so I installed them. Things didn't work very well. Part of it was ACPI problems I didn't correctly recognize, but my biggest problem was that I couldn't get OpenOffice to install, because it had moved to Xorg from XFree86, along with FreeBSD 5.3. I had a slower, desktop machine with a plenty of disk space, so I loaded up the source distribution from 5.2.1, cvsup'ed to -STABLE, did a buildworld, buildkernel, mounted /usr/src and /usr/obj via NFS, and upgraded the laptop to 5.3. Since then, I've been playing a challenging game of update the package to try to get all the requisite packages for Xorg and kde in place (not to mention OpenOffice, and I'm not even there yet). Have you already guessed my problem? My / and /usr single filesystem, which is 1.5Gb in size, that had been about 80% full with XFree86, kde, fvwm, and OpenOffice is now 101% full and I haven't even gotten all of kde installed (and all the dependent packages), let alone OpenOffice. I see my options as this: 1) Try to figure out the dependency trees for kde, install kde-lite instead, and rip out the packages I don't need (theoretically possible - but feasible?) 2) Back up /home, reinstall a minimum 5.2.1 system, do the installworld and installkernel again, and then do the install of the kde (or kde-lite) then restore /home (but how much larger do I need to make / and /usr?) 3) Buy or build a 5.3 installation set, and redo the installation, using only the distributions I need, and hope it fits. Other suggestions? Anything obvious I'm missing? You folks have been extrememly helpful so far, so I'm hoping there's a good solution I'm just missing! 1. Upgrade the hard drive. 2. If you're going to install Windows, install it before you install FreeBSD. 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. 4. Building OpenOffice requires massive resources. Use the binary packages. 5. When you install from ports, make sure you make install clean to remove working files when they're no longer needed. 6. Use portupgrade (in the ports) to upgrade applications; but exclude OpenOffice. Not only can portupgrade take care of dependencies, but it has options to look for binary packages online before opting to compile from source. Best of luck, Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 04:08:53PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Thursday 13 January 2005 03:24 pm, John wrote: I just keep painting myself into corners, and I'm hoping that people can point out some (presumably dumb) things that I am doing, and recommend a course of action that will get me back to where I want to be. [ deleted for brevity ] I see my options as this: 1) Try to figure out the dependency trees for kde, install kde-lite instead, and rip out the packages I don't need (theoretically possible - but feasible?) 2) Back up /home, reinstall a minimum 5.2.1 system, do the installworld and installkernel again, and then do the install of the kde (or kde-lite) then restore /home (but how much larger do I need to make / and /usr?) 3) Buy or build a 5.3 installation set, and redo the installation, using only the distributions I need, and hope it fits. Other suggestions? Anything obvious I'm missing? You folks have been extrememly helpful so far, so I'm hoping there's a good solution I'm just missing! 1. Upgrade the hard drive. Yeah - thinking about that - but should I really need SEVERAL Gb to support the environment I want? Maybe... 2. If you're going to install Windows, install it before you install FreeBSD. Yup - learned THAT the hard way! We do need to update the handbook and other documentation in this regard - the current docs give the impression that the only problem is that the boot manager gets lost. I was, therefore, entirely ready for that, and had everything at hand to put it back - only to discover after putting the boot manager back that the problem was far, far worse than that. Of course, that may be due to the ancient Windows I was installing. 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Sigh. OK. I'll have to see if I can build that from what I have already... Pointers to a way to build a distribution set for 5.3-STABLE from what I have built? 4. Building OpenOffice requires massive resources. Use the binary packages. Oh, definitely! That is what I intend to do. Since I am using OpenOffice, should I use kde-lite instead of the full kde installation? 5. When you install from ports, make sure you make install clean to remove working files when they're no longer needed. OK, but that system, where I have the sources and all, is not hurting for space. 6. Use portupgrade (in the ports) to upgrade applications; but exclude OpenOffice. Not only can portupgrade take care of dependencies, but it has options to look for binary packages online before opting to compile from source. Ah hah! This is a trick I didn't know. I'll learn that. Thanks! Best of luck, Andrew Gould Thank you, Andrew. I'd still like to know why the disk footprint for what I want seems to have grown to dramatically. My hunch is that when I did the installworld I got a bunch of distributions (to use the install terminology) that I didn't intend, but that's just speculation on my part. -- John Lind [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Thursday 13 January 2005 04:18 pm, John wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 04:08:53PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Thursday 13 January 2005 03:24 pm, John wrote: I just keep painting myself into corners, and I'm hoping that people can point out some (presumably dumb) things that I am doing, and recommend a course of action that will get me back to where I want to be. [ deleted for brevity ] I see my options as this: 1) Try to figure out the dependency trees for kde, install kde-lite instead, and rip out the packages I don't need (theoretically possible - but feasible?) 2) Back up /home, reinstall a minimum 5.2.1 system, do the installworld and installkernel again, and then do the install of the kde (or kde-lite) then restore /home (but how much larger do I need to make / and /usr?) 3) Buy or build a 5.3 installation set, and redo the installation, using only the distributions I need, and hope it fits. Other suggestions? Anything obvious I'm missing? You folks have been extrememly helpful so far, so I'm hoping there's a good solution I'm just missing! 1. Upgrade the hard drive. Yeah - thinking about that - but should I really need SEVERAL Gb to support the environment I want? Maybe... I don't think you'll ever regret getting more space. Even if the platform doesn't need the space, you never know what immediate needs might pop up. The first wedding/family reunion we attended with a digital camera produced almost 400MB of our own 5 Megapixal images. That doesn't include copies of the relative's images. Being over a thousand miles from home is no time to upgrade a laptop. (A slide show of the photos was running during the last extended family dinner.) 2. If you're going to install Windows, install it before you install FreeBSD. Yup - learned THAT the hard way! We do need to update the handbook and other documentation in this regard - the current docs give the impression that the only problem is that the boot manager gets lost. I was, therefore, entirely ready for that, and had everything at hand to put it back - only to discover after putting the boot manager back that the problem was far, far worse than that. Of course, that may be due to the ancient Windows I was installing. 3. Definitely go with a clean installation of FreeBSD 5.3 rather than 5.2.1. Sigh. OK. I'll have to see if I can build that from what I have already... Pointers to a way to build a distribution set for 5.3-STABLE from what I have built? I suggest downloading and installing the 5.3 Release CD #1; and cvsup it from there. It would give you a clean start. There were a lot of changes from 5.2.1 to 5.3. A larger hard drive would uncomplicate this issue. 4. Building OpenOffice requires massive resources. Use the binary packages. Oh, definitely! That is what I intend to do. Since I am using OpenOffice, should I use kde-lite instead of the full kde installation? 5. When you install from ports, make sure you make install clean to remove working files when they're no longer needed. OK, but that system, where I have the sources and all, is not hurting for space. That may be true for /usr/src; but are you also using that system for /usr/ports? How is /tmp being handled? 6. Use portupgrade (in the ports) to upgrade applications; but exclude OpenOffice. Not only can portupgrade take care of dependencies, but it has options to look for binary packages online before opting to compile from source. Ah hah! This is a trick I didn't know. I'll learn that. Thanks! Best of luck, Andrew Gould Thank you, Andrew. I'd still like to know why the disk footprint for what I want seems to have grown to dramatically. My hunch is that when I did the installworld I got a bunch of distributions (to use the install terminology) that I didn't intend, but that's just speculation on my part. It's hard to help with this issue. Try using 'du' (man du) to find directories that are using unexpected amounts of space. Good luck, Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Out of the frying pan...
On Thursday 13 January 2005 05:05 pm, you wrote: On Thu, Jan 13, 2005 at 05:01:25PM -0600, Andrew L. Gould wrote: On Thursday 13 January 2005 04:18 pm, John wrote: ... Thanks, Andrew - any advice on the kde versus kde-lite thing? I've been looking around, and I can't find a clear description of how they differ... This is from the kde-lite port MAKEFILE: WITHOUT_KDEVELOP= yes WITHOUT_KDEEDU= yes WITHOUT_KDENETWORK= yes WITHOUT_KDESDK= yes WITHOUT_KDETOYS=yes WITHOUT_KDEWEBDEV= yes WITHOUT_KOFFICE=yes Given the space limitations, I'd make a list of things you do on the computer that's covered by KDE apps. Then, install kde-lite and see if anything is missing. If something's missing, install the individual port. For example, if you use kppp (a nifty, ppp dialup program), which is in kdenetwork; so you would install it using the port at /usr/ports/net/kdenetwork3. Since you use OpenOffice, however, you don't need koffice taking up space. Best regards, Andrew Gould ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
