Re: OT-ish: fedora->crash->single user fsck; FreeBSD->crash->smooth recovery
>> Ok, I'll quit ranting and actually ask a question: The real big thing >> that suprised me (about Fedora), is that every damn time it crashes, I >> have to sit through 20 minutes of fsck when it boots, then it cries, >> gags, and throws me into a root console to run fsck again, manually, >> for 20 more minutes. I'm thinking about symlinking fsck to a rather >> dirtier word on the Fedora box. > > yes it is normal. > > linux filesystem works like in -o async mode, is just caches what it have to > write and write whenever it likes at whatever sequence. > > in linux it is always presented as feature not bug. > > > another very stupid thing is TOO delayed writes, i mean linux simply caches > things as long as there are free memory then just starts lots of writes at > once efectively halting the system for a while. > Ok, so you are saying the write caching is radically different on FreeBSD than what I know of Win/Lin? Or is the timeout to flush just some really small period like 100mS? Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: OT-ish: fedora->crash->single user fsck; FreeBSD->crash->smooth recovery
On Tue, 15 Jul 2008 07:36:17 +0200 (CEST)
Wojciech Puchar <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Is ext2/3 really that bad?
> >
> i don't know ext3, it in theory does journalling, are you using ext3 or
> ext2?
>
> hint: ext3 is actually ext2 with extra file created, there is no need to
> convert, just run fsck_ext3 to convert to ext3, and delete that file to
> convert to ext2.
( my apologies for pursuing the OT)
I can't speak for Fedora, i haven't bothered using it. I can tell you , though,
that ext3's journal is prey to memory hungry processes (like VMWare server) -
user level app uses lots of memory, the fs doesn't have enough to cache/journal
and you hit the ground very fast and very hard. There are some sysctl you can
use to postpone this (at the expense of usable memory).
Other than that, i can't say ext3 is that bad.
But yeah, I still haven't found enough reasons to move back to Linux from FBSD.
B
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Re: OT-ish: fedora->crash->single user fsck; FreeBSD->crash->smooth recovery
Just unacceptable for a laptop. No flash in firefox, I hate flash, but it's crippling not to have. i don't have. nothing lost. Lots of unsupported hardware, etc. [I simply buy COMPATIBLE hardware like IBM/Lenovo. observe, it just doesn't crash (unless I plug in a weird flash drive, camera, etc., and I shouldn't be plugging those things into my servers anyway). Yea FreeBSD! Fedora has crashed at least 5 times in one Just once a day is considered "stable" in linux world today. One other thought on FreeBSD vs. Fedora: dudes, rpm dependencies are junk (or put differently, our ports maintainers are saints)! Every at least when i used linux some years ago there was many distros and every usable distro (like debian or slackware) used other package format, yes rpm was (is?) unusable. engender riddicule - linux is dumbbed down almost as bad as windows, i would object this. linux goal is to compete with windows. and it competes excellent. it is even worse. linux is for people that want to show they are "better" than his/her friends so they use "better" operating system. at least in Poland, where linux users often presents themselves as "experts" to others. Ok, I'll quit ranting and actually ask a question: The real big thing that suprised me (about Fedora), is that every damn time it crashes, I have to sit through 20 minutes of fsck when it boots, then it cries, gags, and throws me into a root console to run fsck again, manually, for 20 more minutes. I'm thinking about symlinking fsck to a rather dirtier word on the Fedora box. yes it is normal. linux filesystem works like in -o async mode, is just caches what it have to write and write whenever it likes at whatever sequence. in linux it is always presented as feature not bug. another very stupid thing is TOO delayed writes, i mean linux simply caches things as long as there are free memory then just starts lots of writes at once efectively halting the system for a while. probably crashed my FreeBSD boxes 10-50 times, and it always boots right up and does an fsck in the background. So compare, one manual same on my systems. UFS is designed to survive crashes. to ditch Fedora and spend the time sending logs to freebsd-acpi, manually configuring amd, etc, etc... Is ext2/3 really that bad? i don't know ext3, it in theory does journalling, are you using ext3 or ext2? hint: ext3 is actually ext2 with extra file created, there is no need to convert, just run fsck_ext3 to convert to ext3, and delete that file to convert to ext2. if this journalling really work i don't know. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
OT-ish: fedora->crash->single user fsck; FreeBSD->crash->smooth recovery
So, after much tough consideration, I've put Fedora on my laptop. FreeBSD just won't do a large-ish number of desktop things (I have 5 FreeBSD systems from 1-10 years old and not a single one will suspend correctly, even after following the instructions in the handbook. Just unacceptable for a laptop. No flash in firefox, I hate flash, but it's crippling not to have. Lots of unsupported hardware, etc. [I know, should have bought a thinkpad, not a bloody compaq]). Having ran it for about a week, I've got to say, I've really been taking for granted the stability of FreeBSD. As people frequently observe, it just doesn't crash (unless I plug in a weird flash drive, camera, etc., and I shouldn't be plugging those things into my servers anyway). Yea FreeBSD! Fedora has crashed at least 5 times in one week. I guess the demands of running user applications are just too much (interestingly, it never crashes doing wine, which seems to run everything these days; most crashes seem related to abusing X (i.e. changing resolution, dual monitors, etc)). One other thought on FreeBSD vs. Fedora: dudes, rpm dependencies are junk (or put differently, our ports maintainers are saints)! Every 3rd install I have to manually find some .so file. Worse yet, try linking libc.a! What joker took it out of the path! I've got to install an rpm to rebuild the kernel!? What about exporting a default CFLAGS? FreeBSD was built to compile, not just serve! Now I understand why dumb questions on the FreeBSD list occasionally engender riddicule - linux is dumbbed down almost as bad as windows, whereas FreeBSD gives me a sense of freedom from stuff I don't need, and quick builds for that which I do (except acpi ;). Ok, I'll quit ranting and actually ask a question: The real big thing that suprised me (about Fedora), is that every damn time it crashes, I have to sit through 20 minutes of fsck when it boots, then it cries, gags, and throws me into a root console to run fsck again, manually, for 20 more minutes. I'm thinking about symlinking fsck to a rather dirtier word on the Fedora box. This has only once ever happened on FreeBSD and I had a gmirror on a bad disk controller. What with the crappy usb sticks & such, I've probably crashed my FreeBSD boxes 10-50 times, and it always boots right up and does an fsck in the background. So compare, one manual fsck in, say, 10 computer-years, vs. 5 in one week. I'm about ready to ditch Fedora and spend the time sending logs to freebsd-acpi, manually configuring amd, etc, etc... Is ext2/3 really that bad? Steve ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
