Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Mario Lobo l...@bsd.com.br wrote: My apologies to all for this, specially to those who already know about this and those who think too little of it. I am really worried about this: http://americancensorship.org/ Mario, I couldn't agree more and it's a very important topic. But PLEASE let's take this thread to freebsd-chat@. It *really* doesn't belong here. Thanks, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us (FINAL - moving to freebsd-chat)
On Friday 18 November 2011 13:13:33 C. P. Ghost wrote: On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 11:24 PM, Mario Lobo l...@bsd.com.br wrote: My apologies to all for this, specially to those who already know about this and those who think too little of it. I am really worried about this: http://americancensorship.org/ Mario, I couldn't agree more and it's a very important topic. But PLEASE let's take this thread to freebsd-chat@. It *really* doesn't belong here. Thanks, -cpghost. I'll re-post there. I wasn't subscribed to chat. Again, my apologies.. Best wishes, -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us [put down your coffee before reading]
If these rootless people get control of what goes through the root servers Thanks, I spewed coffee out of my nose when I read this. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us [put down your coffee before reading]
On Thursday 17 November 2011 06:08:05 Nomen Nescio wrote: If these rootless people get control of what goes through the root servers Thanks, I spewed coffee out of my nose when I read this. I hope the coffee wasn't too hot. I was just trying to convey meaning, not to be orthographically right. Just in case you're not a totally alienated individual, this means that I should not worry about the issue, right? By the way, I was at home, long past my working hours when I saw the article and posted the message. -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Wed, 16 Nov 2011 19:24:54 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: My apologies to all for this, specially to those who already know about this and those who think too little of it. I am really worried about this: http://americancensorship.org/ If these rootless people get control of what goes through the root servers, we will loose the last free medium of expression and info exchange that is not owned by a corporation or anybody. I don't know if I should be worried or not, but if my worries are founded and this comes to pass, as far as I can see, it will be the end of this great tool as we know it today. There is a petition going on here: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_internet/ There are a lot of Americans on this list that have a lot more power than the rest of us to change this. A LOT of people from all over the world is signing this petition. I hope at least some don't judge me to be over dramatic here but this situation sounds very much so. I hope that most of you (if not all) replicates this and that I don't get scalded for this post. I can only hope Sorry, but I totally disagree with you assessment of this bill. First of all, because I have not fully read it and secondly because I think it may in fact have merit. There are all ready too many scumbags who are illegally ripping off the works of others using a multitude of false pretenses. A developer, writer or what ever title you choose to assign to said individual has a right to protect his/her/their property. If you want to use a copyrighted or patented item you either get legal permission and pay a fee if required. Any attempt to use said item(s) without properly obtained the legal right to first is nothing more than common thrift and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The Internet was envisioned as a means of exchanging information, not pilfering it; although sadly enough it has rapidly developed into just that medium supported by socialists/fascists who would rather pilfer the works of another rather than obtaining the right to use said works. -- Jerry ♔ je...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thursday 17 November 2011 09:05:32 Jerry wrote: Sorry, but I totally disagree with you assessment of this bill. First of all, because I have not fully read it and secondly because I think it may in fact have merit. There are all ready too many scumbags who are illegally ripping off the works of others using a multitude of false pretenses. A developer, writer or what ever title you choose to assign to said individual has a right to protect his/her/their property. If you want to use a copyrighted or patented item you either get legal permission and pay a fee if required. Any attempt to use said item(s) without properly obtained the legal right to first is nothing more than common thrift and should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law. The Internet was envisioned as a means of exchanging information, not pilfering it; although sadly enough it has rapidly developed into just that medium supported by socialists/fascists who would rather pilfer the works of another rather than obtaining the right to use said works. My assessment is still being built so thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Jerry The basis for my worries is the fact that historically, every time governments want to control everything, they begin with a step that seems honest and fair to everybody but soon enough, this is extented to whatever they think is right for them. By controlling the root servers, they could blacklist anything. Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:28:57 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. -- Jerry ✌ jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:55:02 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:28:57 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. So what you are saying then is that there should be roadblocks on ever street to make sure that all cars and drivers have proper documentation to make sure car theft does not occur? -- Rod ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:00:04 -0500 Rod Person articulated: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:55:02 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:28:57 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. So what you are saying then is that there should be roadblocks on ever street to make sure that all cars and drivers have proper documentation to make sure car theft does not occur? Well, now we are into the car analogy which really doesn't scale well for this discussion. However, lets visit this concept. It is already required in the US and I would assume many other countries that a vehicle must process the proper tags and documentation to be operated on a public street. The operator of said vehicle must also process proper documentation that he/she is legally allowed to operate said vehicle. Neither of these two requirements is a handicap to the honest individual. Many states, including New York State now equip their police vehicles with devices that can scan the tags on vehicles as they are traveling and can ascertain whether the vehicle is properly insured and registered to be operated on the highway. This non intrusive method of law enforcement has resulted in hundreds of illegal vehicles being removed from the highway. At present, I know of no method to determine the legality of the driver without the police officer physically checking the drivers identification. It has been proposed that such devices be installed at regular intervals along federal highways in the US. As usual, the regular scumbags have instigated legal action to stall the use of such a system on a pseudo invasion of privacy concept. In essence, the only privacy that would be invaded would be those of the user of said illegally operated vehicle. So to answer you question, yes I believe in strict enforcement of laws and regulations. Only a felon has a reason to fear such enforcement. A non intrusive method of enforcement of said laws is a bonus. Only those who break laws have a reason to fear them. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Nov 17, 2011, at 8:00 AM, Rod Person wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 07:55:02 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:28:57 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. So what you are saying then is that there should be roadblocks on ever street to make sure that all cars and drivers have proper documentation to make sure car theft does not occur? -- Rod An interesting perspective of SOPA. Worth watching to the end. http://fightforthefuture.org/pipa/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On 2011-11-17 13:28, Mario Lobo wrote: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? There is and they need to be changed radically to reflect peoples actions. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:38:49 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 08:00:04 -0500 Rod Person articulated: Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. So what you are saying then is that there should be roadblocks on ever street to make sure that all cars and drivers have proper documentation to make sure car theft does not occur? Well, now we are into the car analogy which really doesn't scale Sorry, it was suppose to be more of a right of free travel analogy, than a car thing. Or possibly analogy of traffic follow and bottlenecks created by the stopping and checking of every vehicle. well for this discussion. However, lets visit this concept. It is already required in the US and I would assume many other countries that a vehicle must process the proper tags and documentation to be operated on a public street. The operator of said vehicle must also process proper documentation that he/she is legally allowed to operate said vehicle. Neither of these two requirements is a handicap to the honest individual. Many states, including New York State now equip their police vehicles with devices that can scan the tags on vehicles as they are traveling and can ascertain whether the vehicle is properly insured and registered to be operated on the highway. This non intrusive method of law enforcement has resulted in hundreds of illegal vehicles being removed from the highway. At present, I know of no method to determine the legality of the driver without the police officer physically checking the drivers identification. It has been proposed that such devices be installed at regular intervals along federal highways in the US. As usual, the regular scumbags have instigated legal action to stall the use of such a system on a pseudo invasion of privacy concept. In essence, the only privacy that would be invaded would be those of the user of said illegally operated vehicle. So to answer you question, yes I believe in strict enforcement of laws and regulations. Only a felon has a reason to fear such enforcement. A non intrusive method of enforcement of said laws is a bonus. Only those who break laws have a reason to fear them. I do agree in the enforcement of existing laws. But I don't see the as non intrusive. If your going to check all packages coming through the root servers then there is going to be intrusion into your privacy. Otherwise how would they check you allowed to use the content? What happens in a case where someone has hacked you network and is using it to transfer the their stolen content, such as in the mp3 downloading cases? Then once a new law is on the books, the officials find ways to use the laws in way the were not intended as in the case of the Patriot Act were it's use is over 90 some percent of the time has nothing to to with terrorism. As someone that has been stop because of how I look and where I live, I find the 'only those that break laws have reason to fear them argument' extremely naive. -- Rod ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On 11/17/11 13:05, Jerry wrote: First of all, because I have not fully read it... it mean that you does *not* agree because *your* partial-ignorance? and later you state Only a felon has a reason to fear such enforcement. is there any better arguments to support that point of view? if not : *that* felon will subscribe petition. Alessandro ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 09:02:39AM -0500, Rod Person wrote: As someone that has been stop because of how I look and where I live, I find the 'only those that break laws have reason to fear them argument' extremely naive. It is not just naive, it is not an argument. If we would pass anything under the idea of nothing to hide, we could just drop all safeguards in, for example, the remote search legislation (hacking of suspects by the police). Or hand out search warrants for a complete neighbourhoud of its probable that there are stolen goods in the area. Its merely a comment, and I suppose its naive. Certainly in the light that privacy is about being able to develop your personality freely and thus does just concern what would happen if a country were to get a dictator, but also with people feeling free enough to develop their own ideas on society. Nevertheless, under European law, such legislation would probably not pass as it is not a proportional impact on privacy (a human right, article 8 of the European Convention on Human Rights) and thus not necessary in a democratic society. However, I'm not a law student and also not from the USA, so I don't know how this would work out in practice at the other side of the ocean. Kind regards pgpg9TMszTCHt.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On 11/17/11 9:02 AM, Rod Person wrote: As someone that has been stop because of how I look and where I live, I find the 'only those that break laws have reason to fear them argument' extremely naive. To put it mildly. Before you know it, records of what you've been up to on the Internet will be discoverable in your divorce proceedings when your soon-to-be-ex-spouse decides to go for the nuclear option. Now, not only will you have to pull the battery from your cell phone and pay cash at all toll plazas, but you'll have to hit a different Internet Cafe and pay cash every time you surf the web. --Jon Radel j...@radel.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:16:50 -0500 Jon Radel j...@radel.com wrote: On 11/17/11 9:02 AM, Rod Person wrote: As someone that has been stop because of how I look and where I live, I find the 'only those that break laws have reason to fear them argument' extremely naive. To put it mildly. Before you know it, records of what you've been up to on the Internet will be discoverable in your divorce proceedings when your soon-to-be-ex-spouse decides to go for the nuclear option. Now, not only will you have to pull the battery from your cell phone and pay cash at all toll plazas, but you'll have to hit a different Internet Cafe and pay cash every time you surf the web. I thought this had already been done? Luckily, I don't have a cell phone - more so because I hate phones, for those wondering. :) -- Rod The club is like groceries, and I jus bag a bi@$! Santonio Holmes on the Twitter ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thursday 17 November 2011 11:02:39 Rod Person wrote: Then once a new law is on the books, the officials find ways to use the laws in way the were not intended as in the case of the Patriot Act were it's use is over 90 some percent of the time has nothing to to with terrorism. This is EXACTLY what I meant by worry in my original post. Thanks for putting it into words. -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us [put down your coffee before reading]
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 08:09:59AM -0300, Mario Lobo wrote: On Thursday 17 November 2011 06:08:05 Nomen Nescio wrote: Thanks, I spewed coffee out of my nose when I read this. Just in case you're not a totally alienated individual, this means that I should not worry about the issue, right? I think it means he found the wordplay humorous. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpKEdVUpxyCN.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 07:55:02AM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 09:28:57 -0300 Mario Lobo articulated: Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. So, implementing yet another law that will be poorly enforced will help the problem??? This thing is a lawyers' bonanza, not a protection for content creators. Let the feeding frenzy begin - ???. jerry Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. -- Jerry ??? jerry+f...@seibercom.net Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or ignored. Do not CC this poster. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 07:55:02AM -0500, Jerry wrote: Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. If there are problems with enforcement, creating new laws will not magically fix that. What SOPA and PIPA do is essentially let people with intrinsic commercial conflicts of interest to bypass the checks and balances of the legal system to have competitors and innocent bystanders shut down without due process or actual proof of wrongdoing. These aren't just poorly worded bills; they're poorly conceived bills. MasterCard opposes the bill because its executives and legal staff believe it will legally force them to cut off millions or billions in revenue generated by perfectly legal operations every year. Google opposes the bill because its executives, engineers, and legal staff believe it will require them to *spend* millions or billions every year in dealing with enforcement of spurious claims by parties with no actionable cause to make their claims. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpdSVKcNj1hd.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Nov 17, 2011, at 12:17 PM, Chad Perrin wrote: On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 07:55:02AM -0500, Jerry wrote: Laws to protect copyrighted or patented goods certainly exist. Unfortunately, they are poorly enforced. There is no universal standard for copyright infringement, etcetera. The best way to protect copyrighted material is stopping its pilferage at the source; ie, making every entity in the chain of its illegal usage responsible. If there are problems with enforcement, creating new laws will not magically fix that. What SOPA and PIPA do is essentially let people with intrinsic commercial conflicts of interest to bypass the checks and balances of the legal system to have competitors and innocent bystanders shut down without due process or actual proof of wrongdoing. These aren't just poorly worded bills; they're poorly conceived bills. MasterCard opposes the bill because its executives and legal staff believe it will legally force them to cut off millions or billions in revenue generated by perfectly legal operations every year. Google opposes the bill because its executives, engineers, and legal staff believe it will require them to *spend* millions or billions every year in dealing with enforcement of spurious claims by parties with no actionable cause to make their claims. Theft is theft no matter how a socialist/fascist tries to color it. Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] Thanks for sharing your perspective. I could not agree more. Cheers, Mikel King BSD News Network http://bsdnews.net skype: mikel.king http://twitter.com/mikelking ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:50 -0700 Chad Perrin articulated: Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. Yes, you must be one of those scumbags that pilfers the property or intellectual rights of others sans payment or having acquired the legal rights to the property and then tries to hide behind some pseudo Divine-Right bullshit. You can fool yourself into believing that running someone over with a car and killing them is Vehicular manslaughter and not 1st degree murder; however, that does not change one iota the simple fact that the victim is dead. You can try an justify your illegal actions all you want; criminal attorneys make a living out of doing it in court everyday of the week. It amazes me how scumbags constantly attempt to justify their illegal actions. The simple fact is that a thief is a thief no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Now go back and play your pirated music, etcetera. I am sure you have all ready justified that practice to yourself. -- Jerry ♔ Disclaimer: off-list followups get on-list replies or get ignored. Please do not ignore the Reply-To header. __ Ralph Waldo Emerson ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 12:56:06 -0500 Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:50 -0700 Chad Perrin articulated: Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. Yes, you must be one of those scumbags that pilfers the property or intellectual rights of others sans payment or having acquired the legal rights to the property and then tries to hide behind some pseudo Divine-Right bullshit. You can fool yourself into believing that running someone over with a car and killing them is Vehicular manslaughter and not 1st degree murder; however, that does not change one iota the simple fact that the victim is dead. You can try an justify your illegal actions all you want; criminal attorneys make a living out of doing it in court everyday of the week. It amazes me how scumbags constantly attempt to justify their illegal actions. The simple fact is that a thief is a thief no matter how you try and sugar coat it. Now go back and play your pirated music, etcetera. I am sure you have all ready justified that practice to yourself. For christ's sake stop your crusade, please. I do not know if and if, who hurt you, but that issue is certainly not adressed by accusing possibly, or better, almost certainly, innocent people of illegal and/or criminal actions. Civil liberties are a protection of citizens against their state. Should you entertain the notion that states are by their very nature trustworthy, have a look at some failed states in the recent eighty years. States are represented by human beings who do, more often than one would wish to, succumb to the temptation of crime themselves. Should you require something more illustrating, viz., not theoretical, I fullheartedly suggest reading a most outstanding author, Aleksandr Isayevich Solzhenitsyn, Archipelago Gulag. You might develop a more moderate approach to that libertinistic scumbags who demand protection from legislation which is increasingly becoming a loose cannon on the deck. BTW, using increasingly foul language against arguments people of different persuasion make is a telltale sign ... of Chekism. Feel free to stand for your point and oppose other's, but do that reasonably and respectfully. -- Christopher J. Ruwe TZ GMT + 1 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:56:06PM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:50 -0700 Chad Perrin articulated: Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. Yes, you must be one of those scumbags that pilfers the property or intellectual rights of others sans payment or having acquired the legal rights to the property and then tries to hide behind some pseudo Divine-Right bullshit. You can fool yourself into believing that running someone over with a car and killing them is Vehicular manslaughter and not 1st degree murder; however, that does not change one iota the simple fact that the victim is dead. Well, if the driver was not planning to kill the victim, you're not fooling yourself. The driver may find a hard time living with himself, but will not be a murderer. For example, if the victim was attempting suicide, by jumping right in front of the car at the very last moment, it wouldn't even be manslaughter. The point is, these things are much more complex than bad and good. You should not oversimplificate criminal law, but carefully take into account every detail of every situation. You can try an justify your illegal actions all you want; criminal attorneys make a living out of doing it in court everyday of the week. It amazes me how scumbags constantly attempt to justify their illegal actions. The simple fact is that a thief is a thief no matter how you try and sugar coat it. First, music is a licensing thing. So, you do not buy music, you buy a license to play it. To illustrate this, if you bought a CD with a song, in the Netherlands you are allowed to download this song from the Internet, as you own the license to listen to it for private use. (As a matter of fact, downloading is legal in the Netherlands, and we pay taxes to the entertainment industry, but that is a whole different story, with it's own bad and good features. Also, distributing, thus, uploading is illegal.) The main problem is that there are no proportional solutions to the downloading problem. This means that we may, for example, start filtering all online traffic, but this would be such an impact on the privacy (and thus human rights/democracy), that this is not an option. Therefore, solutions will have to rely on a factor of trust. Furthermore, we know in no way what illegal activities the former poster has been doing. Just pointing out the difference between copyright infringement and thieving (which is important to note) does not make you a so-called scumbag. Also, be happy there are attorneys, every side of the argument has the right to be heard and every single citizen should be able to access the rule of law. Kind regards pgp6f2qkvQf6k.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:56:06PM -0500, Jerry wrote: On Thu, 17 Nov 2011 10:17:50 -0700 Chad Perrin articulated: Copyright infringement is copyright infringement -- and not theft -- no matter how hyperbolic your choice of phrasing. Castigate people for the unlawful act of copyright infringement if you want to, but please do not conflate two separate bodies of law by equating one illegal act with another. This abuse of terms is largely the fault of media conglomerates and their lobbying organizations (e.g. the RIAA and MPAA). The more you repeat these abuses of terminology, the more they are emboldened; I think it was the RIAA representative at the SOPA hearing yesterday who literally equated copyright infringement with *murder*. Don't be like that jackass. Yes, you must be one of those scumbags that pilfers the property or intellectual rights of others sans payment or having acquired the legal rights to the property and then tries to hide behind some pseudo Divine-Right bullshit. You can fool yourself into believing that running someone over with a car and killing them is Vehicular manslaughter and not 1st degree murder; however, that does not change one iota the simple fact that the victim is dead. That is an incorrect assumption. You have betrayed your tendencies toward argumentum ad hominem fallacy pretty clearly to this mailing list. Good job. . . . and now, slightly less directly than the jackass at the SOPA hearing, you too have equated copyright infringement with murder. I expect you'll probably equate it with rape or slavery soon enough. You can try an justify your illegal actions all you want; criminal attorneys make a living out of doing it in court everyday of the week. It amazes me how scumbags constantly attempt to justify their illegal actions. The simple fact is that a thief is a thief no matter how you try and sugar coat it. There are no illegal filesharing actions occuring here at all. You are obviously incapable of reasonable discourse. Now go back and play your pirated music, etcetera. I am sure you have all ready justified that practice to yourself. Oh, of course -- pirated, like the hundreds of CDs and audiocasettes and DVDs I have, though I've stopped consuming new music in any form from corporations that sue their own customers. I'd say you were in left field, but honestly, you're probably not even in the stadium. You *are* one of those jackasses, making accusations without any evidence that turn out to be patently false. I imagine your use of theft to refer to copyright infringement is not, as I initially treated it in the interests of keeping discussion civil, a mistake. Rather, it must be an intentional deception intended to smear people with whom you disagree so you can avoid having to think your arguments through and actually communicate with people. You deserve no further consideration from me. Enjoy the very small space within your mind without my company, jackass. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgpg7oJDUPVAA.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:41:51PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: Oh, of course -- pirated, like the hundreds of CDs and audiocasettes and DVDs I have, though I've stopped consuming new music in any form from corporations that sue their own customers. clarification: Those are hundreds of CDs and audiocasettes and DVDs that I have purchased legally. I think the purchased legally part got accidentally deleted while I was trying to fix a typo (which somehow never ended up fixed; find it if you can). I think the only CD of music I've ever burned was a copy of an audiocasette I had bought twelve years earlier. I'd exhort readers to not take Jerry's absurd accusations and hostile attitude to anyone who doesn't just applaud his every effort as an indication that they should ignore the rest of what he says; in theory, some of it might actually be worth considering. As I've reread it, though, I see that all of it is tainted by (intentionally?) confusing terms such as theft and copyright infringement, leveling baseless accusations against innocent parties, and generally engaging in fallacy by preference rather than actual reasoned argumentation, so there's nothing left to read and judge for oneself. -- Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ] pgp5uc9LBlsKu.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
Quoth Jerry on Thursday, 17 November 2011: Only those who break laws have a reason to fear them. That statement carries large assumptions about the wisdom and benevolence of government. -- .O. | Sterling (Chip) Camden | http://camdensoftware.com ..O | sterl...@camdensoftware.com | http://chipsquips.com OOO | 2048R/D6DBAF91 | http://chipstips.com pgpKlVi97yAk2.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thu, Nov 17, 2011 at 12:56:31PM -0700, Chad Perrin wrote: I'd exhort readers to not take Jerry's absurd accusations and hostile attitude to anyone who doesn't just applaud his every effort as an indication that they should ignore the rest of what he says; in theory, some of it might actually be worth considering. As I've reread it, though, I see that all of it is tainted by (intentionally?) confusing terms such as theft and copyright infringement, leveling baseless accusations against innocent parties, and generally engaging in fallacy by preference rather than actual reasoned argumentation, so there's nothing left to read and judge for oneself. I just saw that, besides the already mentioned website by the EFF, there seems to be a letter to congres from several privacy and free expression organisations worldwide: https://s3.amazonaws.com/access.3cdn.net/ea0af5a75bcbfe15c4_v0m6bxvv4.pdf Or Mozilla: https://blog.mozilla.com/blog/2011/11/15/mozilla/ Kind regards pgpveu31hygCB.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
My assessment is still being built so thanks for sharing your thoughts on this, Jerry Not that I paid attention to the proposal, because I decided a few decades ago governments were the root of all evil and nothing they do is for anybody's good. There isn't enough time in the universe to read and object to all the new draconian laws. The business of legislative bodies should be to constantly repeal bad laws instead of making new bad ones. But I digest... By controlling the root servers, they could blacklist anything. They already p0wned the root servers. Look at the Microsoft case. The federales went into private server farms and set up their own boxes. You think anything goes through American backbones and the guys in black suits with no sense of humor don't know about it, and can't reroute it or DOS it or make funny things happen already? Wake up and smell the Constitution burning. The Homeland Insecurity fascists strip search innocent citizens not accused of any crime (to hell with the Bill of Rights) and they (DHS) have already taken over hundreds of domains because they (DHS) accused the domain owner of running a website that sells forgeries of legitimate products like handbags, iphones, etc. No court case, no grand jury, no due process. Just gimme gimme gimme. I'm the government, get out of my way or I'll kill you or I'll confiscate everything you own and then I'll kill you. Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? There are too many laws now to protect anything. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Thursday 17 November 2011 17:28:39 Dave U. Random wrote: They already p0wned the root servers. Look at the Microsoft case. The federales went into private server farms and set up their own boxes. You think anything goes through American backbones and the guys in black suits with no sense of humor don't know about it, and can't reroute it or DOS it or make funny things happen already? Wake up and smell the Constitution burning. Yes but it isn't legal YET! Aren't there enough laws already to protect copyright? There are too many laws now to protect anything. I believe that this whole discussion boils down to one comment I just saw on ZDNET: Yes, our government is trying to censor the web. So is the UK. Our corrupt officials have sold our government to the highest bidder, and it is now operated by the rich for the rich... and they fear an American Spring(**) like the ones now being celebrated throughout the middle east. After crushing the citizens under heel for so long, they see what open communications have brought in Arabian countries and fear the same here. Thus, the land of the free and it's free speech must become a thing of the past so that the rich can continue to get richer and the poor may be oppressed more easily. Perhaps I am becoming a cynical old man as I watch them disassemble my constitution, but these are sad times : sad times indeed. Regards, Jon (**) which is already happening !! I think that this is what they want to stop. People are becoming aware of things, not through official statements, PBS, the State of the Union Address or mainstream media, but through each other! Fast and uncensored ! And from any point of the planet. Facts that would never come to public awareness otherwise.And this knowledge is empowering people to take to the streets knowing exactly why. Copyright, laws, intellectual property and legal jargons are nothing but smoke and mirrors. -- Mario Lobo http://www.mallavoodoo.com.br FreeBSD since 2.2.8 [not Pro-Audio YET!!] (99% winblows FREE) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
On Wed, Nov 16, 2011 at 5:24 PM, Mario Lobo l...@bsd.com.br wrote: My apologies to all for this, specially to those who already know about this and those who think too little of it. I am really worried about this: http://americancensorship.org/ If these rootless people get control of what goes through the root servers, we will loose the last free medium of expression and info exchange that is not owned by a corporation or anybody. I don't know if I should be worried or not, but if my worries are founded and this comes to pass, as far as I can see, it will be the end of this great tool as we know it today. There is a petition going on here: http://www.avaaz.org/en/save_the_internet/ There are a lot of Americans on this list that have a lot more power than the rest of us to change this. A LOT of people from all over the world is signing this petition. I hope at least some don't judge me to be over dramatic here but this situation sounds very much so. I hope that most of you (if not all) replicates this and that I don't get scalded for this post. I can only hope I too would like to appologize to all the ranters for going in a more technical direction with this discussion. But, it is my understanding that if passed this legislation would force ISPs to break DNSSEC, by tampering with signed DNS resolution, right? With all due respect to any view on the issue, isn't this a negative thing? Perhaps throwing the baby out with the bathwater? Plus, if congress thinks that there is only one set of DNS servers, they're sadly uninformed. If they want to break it, then people will just change over to a different set of servers to access The Pirate Bay, or scat porn, or stormfront.com, or the Libertarian Party website, or anything else the government wants to arbitrarily censor then change back to the broken one to get their government approved scrubbed squeaky clean intertube. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: [OT] but concerns all of us
Jerry je...@seibercom.net wrote: Only those who break laws have a reason to fear them. That is a catastrophically incorrect view. Ask an attorney how much is spent by corporations and private citizens defending themselves against both wrongful lawsuits and wrongful prosecution. It's enough money to run a few other small countries. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
