Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
jb jb.1234abcd at gmail.com writes: jb jb.1234abcd at gmail.com writes: ... Next problem: the FB 9.1 dmesg differs on: - VB VM pnp bios: Bad PnP BIOS data checksum ... orm0: ISA Option ROM at iomem 0xc-0xc7fff pnpid ORM on isa0 Correction - on real hardware none of the above dmesg: ... isab0: PCI-ISA bridge at device 31.0 on pci0 isa0: ISA bus on isab0 pmtimer0 on isa0 orm0: ISA Option ROMs at iomem 0xc-0xc,0xe-0xe pnpid ORM on isa0 sc0: System console at flags 0x100 on isa0 vga0: Generic ISA VGA at port 0x3c0-0x3df iomem 0xa-0xb on isa0 ... That msg in FB VM: pnp bios: Bad PnP BIOS data checksum it means what is says - do not trust it; or also do not use PnP ? But it may also mean a problem accessing it in VM only, as opposed to a real machine. Searched Google, it shows often, but no clear interpretation. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
jb jb.1234abcd at gmail.com writes: Hi, host=CentOS guest=FreeBSD in VirtualBox FB 9.1 installation seemed to be normal (there was a one page text at the end that quickly disappeared, but could not catch it ...), Perhaps those messages I could not catch were relevant, because it seems that the installation did not finish properly (most of base dirs and kernel dir were not populated) - it just died. I guessed that 192MB RAM assigned to VM was insufficient. This has been already reported for FB 9.1 recently. Next problem: the installation's dmesg shows net driver em0, which is Intel PRO/1000 - and this is how install offers to configure the network; but my host has Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express, which is bge0 driver in FB. How to force it to discover the right net device during install, and/or after install ? Next problem: I selected powerd service during install, but after boot, there was error msg: starting powerd powerd lookup freq: No such file or directory /etc/rc: WARNING failed to start powerd Next problem: when I am logged out from FB, and I do (I tested it repeatedly) Machine-Close-Power off the machine to cloce VM with FB, then on subsequent VM Start and FB reboot I get error msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ... Starting file system checks: ** SU+J Recovering /dev/ada0s1a ... but when I do Machine-Close-Send the shutdown signal there are no errors, just normal msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... ... Starting file system checks: /dev/ada0s1a: FILE SYSTEM CLEAN; SKIPPING CHECKS ... jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: the installation's dmesg shows net driver em0, which is Intel PRO/1000 - and this is how install offers to configure the network; but my host has Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express, which is bge0 driver in FB. How to force it to discover the right net device during install, and/or after install ? This is normal for VirtualBox -- it doesn't matter what NIC the host has, VB always presents it as an em(4) interface to the guest. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: I selected powerd service during install, but after boot, there was error msg: starting powerd powerd lookup freq: No such file or directory /etc/rc: WARNING failed to start powerd Again -- standard for VirtualBox hosts: powerd doesn't work -- the guest OS can't control the frequency of the host CPU, which is what you'ld expect thinking about it. Just disable powerd in /etc/rc.conf to get rid of the error message. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman matthew at FreeBSD.org writes: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: the installation's dmesg shows net driver em0, which is Intel PRO/1000 - and this is how install offers to configure the network; but my host has Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express, which is bge0 driver in FB. How to force it to discover the right net device during install, and/or after install ? This is normal for VirtualBox -- it doesn't matter what NIC the host has, VB always presents it as an em(4) interface to the guest. Cheers, Matthew OK. But I also could not ping: $ ping -c 1 google.com I have VM-Settings-Network Attached to NAT What is the correct setting here ? jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: when I am logged out from FB, and I do (I tested it repeatedly) Machine-Close-Power off the machine to cloce VM with FB, then on subsequent VM Start and FB reboot I get error msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ... Starting file system checks: ** SU+J Recovering /dev/ada0s1a ... but when I do Machine-Close-Send the shutdown signal there are no errors, just normal msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... ... Starting file system checks: /dev/ada0s1a: FILE SYSTEM CLEAN; SKIPPING CHECKS ... Ummm... what did you expect to happen? 'Machine-Close-Power off' is essentially the same as ripping the power cord out of a physical machine. It's designed to stop the guest system no matter what: even if the guest is trapped in so tight a loop it can't respond to anything else. 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' is more like pressing the power button on the front of most modern machines, in that what it does is signal the guest OS to shut itself off and power down the system after that. You can achieve the same effect from within the guest OS by typing: shutdown -p now 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' is what you want to use routinely. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman matthew at FreeBSD.org writes: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: I selected powerd service during install, but after boot, there was error msg: starting powerd powerd lookup freq: No such file or directory /etc/rc: WARNING failed to start powerd Again -- standard for VirtualBox hosts: powerd doesn't work -- the guest OS can't control the frequency of the host CPU, which is what you'ld expect thinking about it. Just disable powerd in /etc/rc.conf to get rid of the error message. Cheers, Matthew A general question: to what extent is FB Install aware of installation env (VB here) ? If so, would it make sense to sanitize it to avoid offering install options that are irrelevant/inappropriate ? jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 06/01/2013 11:52, jb wrote: Matthew Seaman matthew at FreeBSD.org writes: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: the installation's dmesg shows net driver em0, which is Intel PRO/1000 - and this is how install offers to configure the network; but my host has Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express, which is bge0 driver in FB. How to force it to discover the right net device during install, and/or after install ? This is normal for VirtualBox -- it doesn't matter what NIC the host has, VB always presents it as an em(4) interface to the guest. OK. But I also could not ping: $ ping -c 1 google.com I have VM-Settings-Network Attached to NAT What is the correct setting here ? Not really enough information there to say exactly what has gone wrong. NAT+DHCP should work. You need: ifconfig_em0=DHCP in /etc/rc.conf obviously. Try tcpdump(1) on the external interface of your host system to see if the traffic shows up. You will also need to have a process called something like VBoxNetDHCP running on the host. Process name might be slightly different on different host OSes (I'm using MacOS X). It should be started automatically but no harm checking. If that hasn't led to a fix, please post the output of: ifconfig em0 netstat -rn from the guest system. If NAT won't work, you might try bridged mode -- this effectively makes the VM share your main host's NIC and gives it its own externally visible IP on the network. You generally need bridged mode if you want to run servers in the VM. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey JID: matt...@infracaninophile.co.uk signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 06/01/2013 12:09, jb wrote: A general question: to what extent is FB Install aware of installation env (VB here) ? If so, would it make sense to sanitize it to avoid offering install options that are irrelevant/inappropriate ? This is FreeBSD. It doesn't hold your hand and wipe the drool off your chin. You're assumed to know what you're doing, and to be able to configure your systems appropriately. And when you do know, and can configure things, then it doesn't get in your way. The installer doesn't know about all the various possible different execution environments it might get used in. To do so would add a lot of complexity for not very much gain to most users. Instead, it is targeted at the most common installation scenario: direct installation onto a PC with all the standard sort of capabilities.This should produce a working system for the vast majority of use cases, but you may need to go in and twiddle a few knobs and generally tune things up a bit to get the very best results. Cheers, Matthew -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
jb wrote: [snip] But I also could not ping: $ ping -c 1 google.com I have VM-Settings-Network Attached to NAT What is the correct setting here ? Vbox will not allow ping and/or traceroute type traffic through NAT. It states this somewhere in the docs. This normal to NAT. I've used both NAT and bridged and have more recently come around to believing that bridged is the better of the two. Especially when/if you wish to serve content to the outside world. Trying to monkey around with the port forwarding rules of the NAT setup is for the birds. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman wrote: On 06/01/2013 12:09, jb wrote: A general question: to what extent is FB Install aware of installation env (VB here) ? If so, would it make sense to sanitize it to avoid offering install options that are irrelevant/inappropriate ? This is FreeBSD. It doesn't hold your hand and wipe the drool off your chin. You're assumed to know what you're doing, and to be able to configure your systems appropriately. And when you do know, and can configure things, then it doesn't get in your way. The installer doesn't know about all the various possible different execution environments it might get used in. To do so would add a lot of complexity for not very much gain to most users. Instead, it is targeted at the most common installation scenario: direct installation onto a PC with all the standard sort of capabilities.This should produce a working system for the vast majority of use cases, but you may need to go in and twiddle a few knobs and generally tune things up a bit to get the very best results. The converse may be applicable as well, that Vbox has configurability to know a little something about the environment for the proposed guest. When creating a new VM, you can choose BSD in the Operating System drop-down and then choose FreeBSD or FreebSD-64. I've had no trouble installing the 9.1 Release disk1 CD into a Vbox VM (amd64 version). What I have not done is tried all the various partitioning schemes available under Manual config. Possibly one, such as Dos MBR or BSD disklabel which I have not tried, may be broken boot-loading wise. I only went straight down the GPT road. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Michael Powell nightrecon at hotmail.com writes: ... What I have not done is tried all the various partitioning schemes available under Manual config. Possibly one, such as Dos MBR or BSD disklabel which I have not tried, may be broken boot-loading wise. I only went straight down the GPT road. -Mike I have done Manual MBR paritioning here and it worked. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Michael Powell wrote: [snip] The converse may be applicable as well, that Vbox has configurability to know a little something about the environment for the proposed guest. When creating a new VM, you can choose BSD in the Operating System drop-down and then choose FreeBSD or FreebSD-64. I've had no trouble installing the 9.1 Release disk1 CD into a Vbox VM (amd64 version). What I have not done is tried all the various partitioning schemes available under Manual config. Possibly one, such as Dos MBR or BSD disklabel which I have not tried, may be broken boot-loading wise. I only went straight down the GPT road. Addendum: Also, which I forgot and left out in my haste, I think I have seen most reports of people having trouble seems to have revolved around the Auto partitioning scheme choice in the new bsdinstaller. I avoided it and went straight to Manual as I prefer to do my own. IIRC the Auto provides one slice and one partition and throws everything in there. I still wish to have separate partitions for /, /usr, /var, etc, so I've also never tried the Auto scheme either. Maybe if this is the problem the OP may wish to try avoiding Auto and proceed directly to Manual. Might rule something out. -Mike ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On 01/06/2013 01:51 PM, Michael Powell wrote: Michael Powell wrote: [snip] The converse may be applicable as well, that Vbox has configurability to know a little something about the environment for the proposed guest. When creating a new VM, you can choose BSD in the Operating System drop-down and then choose FreeBSD or FreebSD-64. I've had no trouble installing the 9.1 Release disk1 CD into a Vbox VM (amd64 version). What I have not done is tried all the various partitioning schemes available under Manual config. Possibly one, such as Dos MBR or BSD disklabel which I have not tried, may be broken boot-loading wise. I only went straight down the GPT road. Addendum: Also, which I forgot and left out in my haste, I think I have seen most reports of people having trouble seems to have revolved around the Auto partitioning scheme choice in the new bsdinstaller. I avoided it and went straight to Manual as I prefer to do my own. IIRC the Auto provides one slice and one partition and throws everything in there. I still wish to have separate partitions for /, /usr, /var, etc, so I've also never tried the Auto scheme either. Maybe if this is the problem the OP may wish to try avoiding Auto and proceed directly to Manual. Might rule something out. -Mike Auto configures your system with three gpt partitions freebsd-boot where the bootstrap code is installed freebsd-ufs which is the / partition freebsd-swap for swap obviously There are no slices involved in the default installation. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 12:09:12 + (UTC), jb wrote: A general question: to what extent is FB Install aware of installation env (VB here) ? FreeBSD can only detect hardware certainly to a specific point. The idea behind virtualization is that it presents non-existent devices as if they were real. This technology has become so great that many operating systems don't distinguish anymore between real hardware and emulated hardware. :-) If so, would it make sense to sanitize it to avoid offering install options that are irrelevant/inappropriate ? FreeBSD is a general-purpose operating system. It can be used for desktops, for laptops, servers without GPU and keyboard, and for virtual environments. This is all possible with the _same_ OS distribution. Disabling things the OS or the installer can do in a way that it does _not_ do things depending on arbitrary circumstances (instead of operator decisions) doesn't sound as an ideal solution, it looks more like hey look at me, I'm a crippled OS installer which only works for one specific virtualisation environment, and when you're done with installation, there could be things you expect to work which I won't let you do simply because! However, there _are_ tailored appliances of FreeBSD which specificlally target virtualied environments. They are based on FreeBSD as the OS, and add certain preinstallation and preconfiguration. Just have a look at this: http://www.virtualbsd.info/ This interesting project even skips the step of manual installation. Instead it offers a fully functional image for VMware and VirtualBox. It builds on the foundation of FreeBSD, instead of demanding a change of the OS to fit one limited use case by predefining settings that might be inappropriate (or leaving out functionality that would be irrelevant) in this _one_ application. The strength of a general-purpose OS is that it can be applied in many settings. It's the administrator's task to deal with the implications that this set of features implies for any specific case. -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013, Matthew Seaman wrote: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: the installation's dmesg shows net driver em0, which is Intel PRO/1000 - and this is how install offers to configure the network; but my host has Broadcom Corporation NetLink BCM5787M Gigabit Ethernet PCI Express, which is bge0 driver in FB. How to force it to discover the right net device during install, and/or after install ? This is normal for VirtualBox -- it doesn't matter what NIC the host has, VB always presents it as an em(4) interface to the guest. Under Network/Adapter1/Advanced, there are other choices for the emulated adapter type. Intel PRO/1000 MT Desktop (82540EM) is the default, and usually a good choice. The first choice is PCnet-PCI II (Am79C970A), and that one works with FreeBSD also. That first one is capable of PXE-booting in bridged mode, where the emulated Intel cards are not. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013, Michael Powell wrote: Matthew Seaman wrote: On 06/01/2013 12:09, jb wrote: A general question: to what extent is FB Install aware of installation env (VB here) ? If so, would it make sense to sanitize it to avoid offering install options that are irrelevant/inappropriate ? This is FreeBSD. It doesn't hold your hand and wipe the drool off your chin. You're assumed to know what you're doing, and to be able to configure your systems appropriately. And when you do know, and can configure things, then it doesn't get in your way. The installer doesn't know about all the various possible different execution environments it might get used in. To do so would add a lot of complexity for not very much gain to most users. Instead, it is targeted at the most common installation scenario: direct installation onto a PC with all the standard sort of capabilities.This should produce a working system for the vast majority of use cases, but you may need to go in and twiddle a few knobs and generally tune things up a bit to get the very best results. The converse may be applicable as well, that Vbox has configurability to know a little something about the environment for the proposed guest. When creating a new VM, you can choose BSD in the Operating System drop-down and then choose FreeBSD or FreebSD-64. I've had no trouble installing the 9.1 Release disk1 CD into a Vbox VM (amd64 version). What I have not done is tried all the various partitioning schemes available under Manual config. Possibly one, such as Dos MBR or BSD disklabel which I have not tried, may be broken boot-loading wise. I only went straight down the GPT road. MBR works also. Which is to be expected, it's an emulated machine, and isn't any more picky about boot blocks than physical hardware. Probably less picky, really. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
jb jb.1234abcd at gmail.com writes: ... Next problem: the FB 9.1 dmesg differs on: - VB VM pnp bios: Bad PnP BIOS data checksum ... orm0: ISA Option ROM at iomem 0xc-0xc7fff pnpid ORM on isa0 - on real hardware none of the above jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman matthew at FreeBSD.org writes: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: I selected powerd service during install, but after boot, there was error msg: starting powerd powerd lookup freq: No such file or directory /etc/rc: WARNING failed to start powerd Again -- standard for VirtualBox hosts: powerd doesn't work -- the guest OS can't control the frequency of the host CPU, which is what you'ld expect thinking about it. Just disable powerd in /etc/rc.conf to get rid of the error message. Cheers, Matthew If so, then bsdinstall should stop offering powerd as a service during installation (regardless of whethter in real or virtual env). It can discover this condition with checking for lack of sysctl -a | grep dev.cpu.0.freq sysctl -a | grep dev.cpu.0.freq_levels in /usr/libexec/bsdinstall/services, exactly as it does with if (sysctlnametomib(dev.cpu.0.freq, freq_mib, len)) err(1, lookup freq); ... if (sysctlnametomib(dev.cpu.0.freq_levels, levels_mib, len)) err(1, lookup freq_levels); in /usr/sbin/powerd (via /etc/rc.d/powerd) - see powerd.c. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman matthew at FreeBSD.org writes: On 06/01/2013 11:19, jb wrote: Next problem: when I am logged out from FB, and I do (I tested it repeatedly) Machine-Close-Power off the machine to cloce VM with FB, then on subsequent VM Start and FB reboot I get error msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... WARNING: / was not properly dismounted ... Starting file system checks: ** SU+J Recovering /dev/ada0s1a ... but when I do Machine-Close-Send the shutdown signal there are no errors, just normal msgs: ... Trying to mount root from ufs:/dev/ada0s1a [rw]... ... Starting file system checks: /dev/ada0s1a: FILE SYSTEM CLEAN; SKIPPING CHECKS ... Ummm... what did you expect to happen? 'Machine-Close-Power off' is essentially the same as ripping the power cord out of a physical machine. It's designed to stop the guest system no matter what: even if the guest is trapped in so tight a loop it can't respond to anything else. 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' is more like pressing the power button on the front of most modern machines, in that what it does is signal the guest OS to shut itself off and power down the system after that. You can achieve the same effect from within the guest OS by typing: shutdown -p now 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' is what you want to use routinely. Cheers, Matthew Right, but the wordings are unfortunate and counterintuitive/misleading: 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' means to 'shutdown -p now' (equivalent to 'poweroff') of Guest, followed by unforced Close of VM. 'Machine-Close-Power off' means Kill VM' without regard of the Guest - but the Power off in its name may make user believe that there is Poweroff (orderly shutdown, poweroff) involved as part of the process. It would be better, in my opinion, if these options were called Machine-Close-Shutdown-Guest Machine-Close-Kill-Guest No margin for error/misunderstanding. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Matthew Seaman m.seaman at infracaninophile.co.uk writes: ... There is no problem with interface em0, NAT, manual/DHCP config, and ping or traceroute. jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 19:02:43 + (UTC), jb wrote: Right, but the wordings are unfortunate and counterintuitive/misleading: 'Machine-Close-Send shutdown' means to 'shutdown -p now' (equivalent to 'poweroff') of Guest, followed by unforced Close of VM. 'Machine-Close-Power off' means Kill VM' without regard of the Guest - but the Power off in its name may make user believe that there is Poweroff (orderly shutdown, poweroff) involved as part of the process. It would be better, in my opinion, if these options were called Machine-Close-Shutdown-Guest Machine-Close-Kill-Guest No margin for error/misunderstanding. A need for this interpretation may arise for those who did not do computing in the pre-ATX era (at least in the PC sector). Power off means _power off_, typically AC power off, a switch that would disconnect the mains source, so there is no way for the OS to shut anything down. On an AT PC, there was no real way to tell the OS to perform a shutdown, so shutdown -h would be the equivalent command to be issued by the operator, followed by mechanically switching the machine off. A command like shutdown -p combined both things when ATX (with APM, later with ACPI) became common. Similarly, emergency power off would carry this meaning: stop the machine at all costs NOW. A different term, delayed power off, was common on machines to allow the OS to perform the proper shutdown steps and _then_ power the machine off, but it's not common anymore. However, your transition of this knowledge to the terminology to be used in combination with _virtual_ machines makes sense. Maybe that wording is really not optimal. Kill guest matches today's understanding, but could possibly be formed better in regards of future use (like the power off vs. shutdown difference that was totally clear in the 1990's, but maybe isn't as clear anymore today). -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
Polytropon freebsd at edvax.de writes: ... However, your transition of this knowledge to the terminology to be used in combination with _virtual_ machines makes sense. Maybe that wording is really not optimal. Kill guest matches today's understanding, but could possibly be formed better in regards of future use (like the power off vs. shutdown difference that was totally clear in the 1990's, but maybe isn't as clear anymore today). Well, I remember some time ago there were some changes done to shutdown, halt, poweroff commands and their interpretation/implementation. Since then Confusion Reigns Supreme ! See Google search: difference shutdown poweroff Enjoy it -:) jb ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: FB 9.1 boot loader problem in VirtualBox
On Sun, 6 Jan 2013 20:02:04 + (UTC), jb wrote: Polytropon freebsd at edvax.de writes: ... However, your transition of this knowledge to the terminology to be used in combination with _virtual_ machines makes sense. Maybe that wording is really not optimal. Kill guest matches today's understanding, but could possibly be formed better in regards of future use (like the power off vs. shutdown difference that was totally clear in the 1990's, but maybe isn't as clear anymore today). Well, I remember some time ago there were some changes done to shutdown, halt, poweroff commands and their interpretation/implementation. Since then Confusion Reigns Supreme ! See Google search: difference shutdown poweroff I know it's just about terminology, and if you leave the PC sector, you'll be surprised about different interpretation and even deviating terminology. :-) -- Polytropon Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
