Re: Greylisting and new posters
On Saturday 30 May 2009 21:09:45 Chuck Robey wrote: > Probably, the only thing that really might need > another word or two is to make the services offered by FreeBSD-test list > better advertised (it does still exist, right?) People can post all the > test mail they want to that list. Nice story but don't see how it's relevant. FreeBSD greylisting is not server wide, but per destination, so the test list doesn't come into view even for "pre-greylisting". -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greylisting and new posters
Mel Flynn wrote: > All (including David with his kick-ass postmaster hat), > > while off-topic, flames and other non sense covered by Freedom of Speech are > an annoyance to many, I'm more bothered by some newcomers to the list that > are > being greylisted on first post and instantly hit the resend button. > Especially > since a technical solution is possible in 90% of the cases (there are a few > people that don't resend, but re-edit). > > Is it possible to: > a) Put a big-red-blink-popup-attentiongrabbing monster text into the > subscription page about first posts being delayed with a link to greylisting? > b) Hash the bodies of greylisted messages and reject / discard if the same > body with a different msg id is being received? > > I'd be happy to contribute to b) if it is thought that the incoming mailer > can > handle the hashing and storage of this information. Seems to me that the particular problem you're referring to doesn't really happen all that often. Probably, the only thing that really might need another word or two is to make the services offered by FreeBSD-test list better advertised (it does still exist, right?) People can post all the test mail they want to that list. About 6 months ago, I recommended to an acquaintance that they make use of the FreeBSD-test list, and I actually saw the replies he got from some idiots subscribed to that list, complaining that my acquaintance used that list exactly like he was supposed to do. I wonder if maybe the list ought to have some feature like having it's subscribers list zeroed out once a week. It's then a pretty obvious problem which really could be dealt with in the new subscribers intro mail. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greylisting and new posters
Don't be. It's been bothering me for a while and you weren't even the trigger. Ironically the trigger was the endless and rather pointless discussions about list moderation. most probably you didn't read the points. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greylisting and new posters
On Saturday 30 May 2009 10:20:06 Erik Norgaard wrote: > Mel Flynn wrote: > > Is it possible to: > > a) Put a big-red-blink-popup-attentiongrabbing monster text into the > > subscription page about first posts being delayed with a link to > > greylisting? b) Hash the bodies of greylisted messages and reject / > > discard if the same body with a different msg id is being received? > > > > I'd be happy to contribute to b) if it is thought that the incoming > > mailer can handle the hashing and storage of this information. > > Hi, ok sorry about that mail yesterday :) I've been off the list for > some time. Don't be. It's been bothering me for a while and you weren't even the trigger. Ironically the trigger was the endless and rather pointless discussions about list moderation. The thing with double posts like these is that they are more frequent as of late and sometimes lead to 2 seperate threads about the same thing, where I already have half a reply ready only to notice that it was already covered "in the other one". > Your option b) won't work: you propose to reply with a 2XX (OK) or 5XX > (rejected, don't try again) if subscriber sends the message again. > > Problem is that the server after receiving the 450 error will retry > after some time and this may be before the sender is white listed. So if > you implement the solution you propose you risk that the original > message is either discarded or rejected. Not unless the retrying mailer is really broken. > So, you need to come up with an idea of how to distinguish between the > server resending the same message and the subscriber resending the same > message. If anything, I believe it's most likely that the subscriber > will not send the exact same message, missing some blanks or double > signature line etc... Most of the time it's identical, but I haven't investigated white-space differences. And like I mentioned in the original email, the msg id is the identifier. md5(body) as key generates msg-id foo, this message has msg-id bar, so redirect bar to /dev/null. Once foo delivered delete from state table. > Question: Did grey listing actually reduce the amount of spam on the > list? I eventually dumped it as it caused more problems than it solved. It does marginally for me, for the list I have no idea. It seems to be more effective with viruses then "professional spam". -- Mel ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
Re: Greylisting and new posters
Mel Flynn wrote: Is it possible to: a) Put a big-red-blink-popup-attentiongrabbing monster text into the subscription page about first posts being delayed with a link to greylisting? b) Hash the bodies of greylisted messages and reject / discard if the same body with a different msg id is being received? I'd be happy to contribute to b) if it is thought that the incoming mailer can handle the hashing and storage of this information. Hi, ok sorry about that mail yesterday :) I've been off the list for some time. It would be great if the confirmation mail and the subscription page would include the message: "After confirming/activating your subscription your first mail may be delayed X minutes due to grey listing" Also, it would be great to have a descriptive error message, rather than this: 450 4.7.1 : Recipient address rejected: Service is unavailable (in reply to RCPT TO command)) This text message indicates an error in the recipients end, while the 450 status indicates it's temporary. IIRC the postgrey port will provide a message along the lines "sender postgreyed X seconds, see website for more information." Your option b) won't work: you propose to reply with a 2XX (OK) or 5XX (rejected, don't try again) if subscriber sends the message again. Problem is that the server after receiving the 450 error will retry after some time and this may be before the sender is white listed. So if you implement the solution you propose you risk that the original message is either discarded or rejected. So, you need to come up with an idea of how to distinguish between the server resending the same message and the subscriber resending the same message. If anything, I believe it's most likely that the subscriber will not send the exact same message, missing some blanks or double signature line etc... Now, you could take an active approach, when a subscriber's first message is grey listed, send an automatic reply that the message is grey listed for X seconds. But, then you have the problem that these auto replies will also be sent to innocent people who are being impersonated by some spammer, or to non-existing mail addresses which will generate loads of error messages. Question: Did grey listing actually reduce the amount of spam on the list? I eventually dumped it as it caused more problems than it solved. BR, Erik -- Erik Nørgaard Ph: +34.666334818/+34.915211157 http://www.locolomo.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org"
