Re: ISP questions

2009-06-10 Thread Jerry
On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:13:47 -0600
Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:

If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something
entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be
imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies,
and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held
hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those
incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of
people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise
screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that
treatment.

(Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.)

So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of
circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with
screwing you over.  I prefer to gamble on other things.  Your mileage
may vary.

I am not going to debate.

1) Your math doesn't even begin to compute - as you stated.
2) You have supplied no factual proof of your statement. Innuendo is not
evidence.

Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you
should live in a bubble? If you have documented proof of your
statements, I would love to see them. If not, you sound like someone
who screwed up, got burned and like is now the norm in our society,
refusing to take responsibility for it; preferring to place the blame on
someone or something else.

If you don't like GoDaddy, that is your prerogative. However,
slandering them with undocumented statements is rather low. As I said,
I have not had a problem with them in the seven years I have used their
services. Obviously, that does not coincide with your statements.

Out of morbid curiosity, who are you presently using? I am willing to
bet that I can find someone with a horror story to tell about them
also. Would it be accurate; you tell me?

-- 
Jerry
ges...@yahoo.com

QOTD:
Every morning I read the obituaries; if my name's not there,
I go to work.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-10 Thread Wojciech Puchar

Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you


Everything is dangerous, life itself being the most - always ends with 
death.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-10 Thread Chad Perrin
On Wed, Jun 10, 2009 at 06:33:05AM -0400, Jerry wrote:
 On Tue, 9 Jun 2009 17:13:47 -0600
 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:
 
 If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something
 entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be
 imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies,
 and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held
 hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those
 incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of
 people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise
 screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that
 treatment.
 
 (Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.)
 
 So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of
 circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with
 screwing you over.  I prefer to gamble on other things.  Your mileage
 may vary.
 
 I am not going to debate.
 
 1) Your math doesn't even begin to compute - as you stated.

How do you figure?


 2) You have supplied no factual proof of your statement. Innuendo is not
 evidence.

Try http://nodaddy.com for examples.


 
 Every time you get in a car, you risk your life. Does that mean you
 should live in a bubble? If you have documented proof of your
 statements, I would love to see them. If not, you sound like someone
 who screwed up, got burned and like is now the norm in our society,
 refusing to take responsibility for it; preferring to place the blame on
 someone or something else.

I haven't been burned by GoDaddy.  As you might have surmised from
previous statements (if you were paying enough attention), I have chosen
to learn from others' mistakes in the case of GoDaddy rather than
obstinately insisting on making such a mistake for myself.  Thanks for
degrading the apparent rigor of your own arguments by descending into ad
hominem fallacy, though, assuming I've done something I haven't so you
can blame me, the hypothetical victim, for what has(n't actually) been
done to me.

The only way I remember having been burned by my choice of registrar,
and thus having to learn from my own mistake, was the case of using a
single provider for both domain registration and Webhosting.  I learned
from that experience that if a single provider handles both domain
registration and Webhosting for that domain, it makes it really easy for
that provider to screw the user by making it as difficult as possible to
move one or the other service to a different provider, thus costing more
money over a longer period while giving crappy service -- essentially
creating an artificial lock-in situation from which it may be difficult
to extricate oneself.  I didn't have that particular problem with
GoDaddy, but I certainly wouldn't put it past that company.


 
 If you don't like GoDaddy, that is your prerogative. However,
 slandering them with undocumented statements is rather low. As I said,
 I have not had a problem with them in the seven years I have used their
 services. Obviously, that does not coincide with your statements.

You didn't ask for documentation, and that's not the direction the
discussion was going.  I provided a URL so you can see some corroborating
documentation of real-world incidents above, though, now that you've
specifically brought up the point of such evidence.

The fact you, yourself have not had a problem, may well be a matter of
nothing but luck.  In fact, I'm sure most GoDaddy customers haven't had a
problem.  That's sorta the point, though -- as long as the incidence of
problems is kept below a particular threshold, GoDaddy is free to screw
over that small percentage of exceptions with relative impunity, unless
those who know about such incidents try to get the word out to help other
would-be customers protect themselves.  It's not like I have a selfish
aim in suggesting one use a different registrar; I don't run, or work
for, or otherwise have a relationship with, a competing company (other
than being another company's customer, of course).


 
 Out of morbid curiosity, who are you presently using? I am willing to
 bet that I can find someone with a horror story to tell about them
 also. Would it be accurate; you tell me?

I'm using pairNIC.  If you find such horror stories, please let me know,
and I'll investigate them to determine whether I consider them credible
and suggestive of the likelihood that the same thing could happen to me.
Some horror stories are suggestive of bad policy to which I don't want to
submit myself; others are merely suggestive of a fluke, or exaggeration.

The fact is that the GoDaddy horror stories I've seen have, in some
cases, actually been thoroughly documented not only by the parties
involved (on both sides, in fact), but by the news media as well, and
they're very suggestive of policies that can lead to terrible abuses of
customers in the future.  Meanwhile, pairNIC 

Re: ISP questions

2009-06-09 Thread Chad Perrin
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 05:31:12PM -0400, Jerry wrote:
 On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:55:49 -0600
 Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:
 
 I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I
 will be forced to learn from my own.  If you really want to learn from
 your own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where
 GoDaddy has screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in
 willful ignorance until the day when your luck changes.  I guess
 that's your prerogative.
 
 I believe you are over generalizing it. I have had two occasions where
 FBSD crashed and I lost a considerable amount of data. According to
 your statement, I should just say screw FBSD and move on to another OS.

FreeBSD doesn't have volition.  Using FreeBSD isn't a matter of trusting
the software's intentions.

GoDaddy executives and managers *do* have volition.  Using GoDaddy *is* a
matter of trusting the executives' and managers' intentions.

Next, we'll be comparing apples and . . . windows, I guess, since oranges
at least are fruit.  Pun intended.


 
 Seriously though, if they have X number of clients and only .1% of them
 have experienced a problem, is there really a problem? I don't know
 since I don't have statistics on GoDaddy. Obviously you do. Would you
 be kind enough to post them so I could inspect them myself.

If 0.111% of customers are unfortunate enough to end up with something
entirely beyond their control causing something to happen that can be
imagined to be a violation of GoDaddy's partially undisclosed policies,
and 0.1% of GoDaddy customers end up getting their domain names held
hostage to the tune of several hundred dollars as a result of those
incidents entirely beyond their control, that means that about 90% of
people GoDaddy has any way of exploiting, extorting, or otherwise
screwing over in a manner defensible in court are getting exactly that
treatment.

(Note that I'm making up numbers here, just like you.)

So . . . you're basically gambling that you'll never be the victim of
circumstances that would allow GoDaddy to figure it can get away with
screwing you over.  I prefer to gamble on other things.  Your mileage may
vary.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-08 Thread Jerry
On Sun, 7 Jun 2009 19:46:29 -0600
Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:

On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:50:35PM -0400, itsemu wrote:
 if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the
 requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides
 windows.. probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any
 idea what hardware each different county they are supporting has in
 there headend because its all different, reverse dns will probably
 be a waste of ip space because of the way its assigned in classes
 and i seriously doubt they will do it via a ticket if its not that
 way. named registration if im catching that right godaddys probably
 going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows..

Use a better registrar than GoDaddy.  Price isn't everything, and
GoDaddy will as soon screw you over as look at you.

When searching for registrars to use, the first thing I do is look for
registrars that have donated domain registration and/or hosting
services to open source projects, because that always says something
nice about their level of customer service and knowledgeability.  The
second thing I look for is their conflict resolution policy, because I
never want to be in the position of having my service halted on
someone else's say-so for something that isn't my fault without anyone
letting me know there's a problem in time to fix it before service is
cut off -- and I *definitely* don't want to pay a
severeal-hundred-dollar ransom to get my domain name back (a favorite
dirty trick of GoDaddy's).

Price is somewhere down around concern five or six when I'm choosing a
domain name registrar.

I have used GoDaddy for 7 years now without a single problem. Maybe I
am just lucky. I have only contacted them twice; however, I received
a quick and courteous response to my inquiry.

I know nothing about their philanthropic practices, nor does it concern
me, unless I happen to be the beneficiary of such acts.

-- 
Jerry
ges...@yahoo.com

O'Reilly's Law of the Kitchen:
Cleanliness is next to impossible


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-08 Thread Chad Perrin
On Mon, Jun 08, 2009 at 04:45:43AM -0400, Jerry wrote:
 
 I have used GoDaddy for 7 years now without a single problem. Maybe I
 am just lucky. I have only contacted them twice; however, I received
 a quick and courteous response to my inquiry.

I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I will
be forced to learn from my own.  If you really want to learn from your
own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where GoDaddy has
screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in willful ignorance
until the day when your luck changes.  I guess that's your prerogative.


 
 I know nothing about their philanthropic practices, nor does it concern
 me, unless I happen to be the beneficiary of such acts.

I think you missed the import of what I said about supporting open source
projects, and how that seems a strongly correlated indicator of other
good business practices.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
Quoth Paul Graham: Object-oriented programming offers a sustainable way
to write spaghetti code.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-08 Thread Jerry
On Mon, 8 Jun 2009 14:55:49 -0600
Chad Perrin per...@apotheon.com wrote:

I try to learn from others' mistakes to reduce the likelihood that I
will be forced to learn from my own.  If you really want to learn from
your own mistakes, though, go ahead and ignore the instances where
GoDaddy has screwed over other customers, and just keep using it in
willful ignorance until the day when your luck changes.  I guess
that's your prerogative.

I believe you are over generalizing it. I have had two occasions where
FBSD crashed and I lost a considerable amount of data. According to
your statement, I should just say screw FBSD and move on to another OS.

Seriously though, if they have X number of clients and only .1% of them
have experienced a problem, is there really a problem? I don't know
since I don't have statistics on GoDaddy. Obviously you do. Would you
be kind enough to post them so I could inspect them myself.

Thanks!

-- 
Jerry
ges...@yahoo.com

They're unfriendly, which is fortunate, really.  They'd be difficult
to like.

Avon


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-07 Thread Chad Perrin
On Thu, Jun 04, 2009 at 11:50:35PM -0400, itsemu wrote:
 if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the
 requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows..
 probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware
 each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its
 all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of
 the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a
 ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right
 godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows..

Use a better registrar than GoDaddy.  Price isn't everything, and GoDaddy
will as soon screw you over as look at you.

When searching for registrars to use, the first thing I do is look for
registrars that have donated domain registration and/or hosting services
to open source projects, because that always says something nice about
their level of customer service and knowledgeability.  The second thing I
look for is their conflict resolution policy, because I never want to be
in the position of having my service halted on someone else's say-so for
something that isn't my fault without anyone letting me know there's a
problem in time to fix it before service is cut off -- and I *definitely*
don't want to pay a severeal-hundred-dollar ransom to get my domain name
back (a favorite dirty trick of GoDaddy's).

Price is somewhere down around concern five or six when I'm choosing a
domain name registrar.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
Quoth Robert Martin: Would you rather Test-First, or Debug-Later?


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-07 Thread Chad Perrin
On Fri, Jun 05, 2009 at 06:23:56PM +0200, Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 
 The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had
 a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated,
 angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable
 why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving
 door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months.
 
 I think there are people doing this that can work for years. just a matter 
 of personal character, they could completely don't care :)

In my experience, the people who remain in such positions for more than a
couple years and don't quit or get moved/promoted somewhere else tend to
turn into BOFH-types who have a sense of entitlement, enjoy making
others' lives difficult, and epitomize the very worst qualities of common
tech support personnel.  They basically turn into (or were, from the
beginning) people that should just get an ass-kicking about daily.

There are exceptions, of course, but they're few and far between, from
what I've seen.


 
 Some still insist that it's our fault, they we have to go to them, run 
 some DVD-bootable linux distro with web browser and show that all is fine 

God, I *wish* I could find ISP tech support people who were knowledgeable
enough to do something like that -- then maybe when I have a connectivity
problem we'd actually be able to sort the problem out in one call,
instead of the tech support people I talk to being hampered by both lack
of knowledge and bureaucratic shackles so that nothing's going to get
fixed for at least three hours.

My at one point ISP actually had (I don't know if this is still the case)
a special telephone number to call for some stupid automated connectivity
test to be run, and when I called once to try to get troubleshooting for
my connection I was told to hang up, call that number, follow directions,
then call back with the case number it gave me if there was actually a
connectivity problem.  Seriously, this is what it has come to -- nobody
knows how to use ping or traceroute any longer, apparently.  This is
especially problematic when the problem I was having wasn't a complete
outage, but *intermittent* service failure, so the damned thing didn't
even detect a connection problem because there wasn't one at that exact
moment.

Anyway . . . my point is that I'd love to deal with tech support that
knows what a Linux distribution LiveCD is, rather than tech support that
doesn't know what ping and traceroute are.  I get the feeling modern
public corporation ISPs actually *want* their tech support personnel to
be ignorant morons so they can avoid having to fix problems, simply
snowing users in with stupidity long enough to see if the problem goes
away (even if only by the customer going away in annoyance).  Clearly,
individual customers aren't important to ISP management these days.

-- 
Chad Perrin [ original content licensed OWL: http://owl.apotheon.org ]
Quoth Martin Golding: Always code as if the guy who ends up maintaining
your code will be a violent psychopath who knows where you live.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Matthew Seaman

Reid Linnemann wrote:

Written by Mark Hartkemeyer on 06/04/09 11:23

I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
people before I even got some of them answered.

Here are some of the questions and answers:

1. What speed connections do you offer?
5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
768kBps

2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package

3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)

4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
You need a static IP.

6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
Talk to residential services.

7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
server on my connection.

8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
(They didn't know.)

I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?

Thanks,
Mark Hartkemeyer


These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew
the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was
wrong. There was a point in time when a technical support representative
for an ISP was knowledgeable and courteous, but those days are forever
gone and those reps have been replaced with poorly trained monkeys that
are forbidden to divert from The Script. You could not get any
intelligible information about the ISP's services any more than you
could expect to get intelligible information about a Dell computer's
north bridge controller from a Walmart Associate. This is attributable
to the explosion in popularity of personal internet access, resulting in
a greater need for servicing a high volume of low complexity technical
support requests (e.g., my internet don't work). The reps are paid far
to little to be technically competent and the ISP doesn't get a return
for training them to be proficient when they can just ist them in front
of a knowledge database they've already invested cash into and tell them
to read what it says. You have to meander your way at least up to tier
II or III support to get to anyone who might possibly be invested enough
in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers.


Man, you're with the wrong ISP.  The one I use would have no problems at
all answering all of the above, and they'd do it on the phone, by e-mail,
usenet, IRC and probably by generating smoke-signals from the roof of the
datacenter if they thought it would help.  Brilliant approach to customer
management; technical service levels damn good too, despite everything it
seems their NSPs do to foul things up.

Actually, the answers to virtually all of those questions are on their web
site already.

Oh, and they actually like you to run your own mail, web and DNS...  The only
slight flaw is that they are a bunch of penguinistas rather than embracing
the one true daemonic faith.  But I can forgive them for that.

Cheers,

Matthew

--
Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil.   7 Priory Courtyard
 Flat 3
PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate
 Kent, CT11 9PW



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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar

My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month


1Gbyte/s? 


Yes.


it's 10Gbit/s


No.


So 1Gbyte or Gbit/s?

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar

in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers.


Man, you're with the wrong ISP.


Or maybe it's best ISP available there? :)
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Steve Bertrand
itsemu wrote:
 if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the
 requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows..

Excuse me, unless you have ever worked at an ISP, might I kindly ask you
to have some respect. (if you have, the call centre you likely worked
for != ISP).

 probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware
 each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its
 all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of
 the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a
 ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right
 godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows..

Nevermind. I should have read your entire post before I started to
respond. It's clear that you have the experience and education behind
you to make statements about the knowledge of ISP staff.

Steve


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Steve Bertrand
Modulok wrote:

 While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake:
 
 - Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable
 modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best.

Well, I don't know about cable, but this is the way DSL works. 90%+ of
the issues with DSL are due to the modem losing connectivity overnight,
so a reboot is the quickest and easiest method of troubleshooting.

We've got nearly all of our DSL subs trained to reboot their CPE before
they call us.

If that solution weeds out 50% of support calls, then our staff can
focus on bigger and better things.

 Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support
 people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for
 their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management.

The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had
a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated,
angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable
why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving
door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months.

I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that
about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error.

Unless it's a relatively small ISP, you can't expect the tech support
people to be able to answer questions relating to the engineering of
their network (how many hops to the core), what software they run on
their servers etc.

Perhaps if people were to call into their tech support helpdesk every
once in a while when they *aren't* having any issues just to tell them
that their doing a heck of a job, and to have a nice day, you might find
the staff willing to stay around a bit longer and become a little more
knowledgeable for the next time one calls.

Steve

Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to
time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while
(unfortunately).

I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch
and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if
your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me?

I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a
decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Bill Moran
In response to Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca:

[snip]

 Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to
 time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while
 (unfortunately).
 
 I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch
 and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if
 your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me?
 
 I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a
 decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn.

I think there's a serious lesson to be learned here ... many years ago
I realized just the kind of crap these people have to deal with on a
daily basis, and I make it a point to be polite and friendly _any_ time
I call tech support.  The upshot of this is that I've noticed that I'll
get answers and help where other people won't ... the tech support folks
_want_ to stay on the phone with me.

The downside to this is when I make a call and either I or the the tech
support person knows that they can't fix my problem -- being polite doesn't
help much.  When the both of us know that management or the higher level
tech screwed something up and the tech support folks are supposed to be
covering it up, there's not much you can really say or do, and that's
_really_ frustrating.

-- 
Bill Moran
http://www.potentialtech.com
http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Steve Bertrand
Bill Moran wrote:
 In response to Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca:
 
 [snip]
 
 Disclaimer: I work as a network engineer at a small ISP. From time to
 time, I still have to answer the phone every once in a while
 (unfortunately).

 I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch
 and snivel and have no respect. It's not my fault you can't connect if
 your dog ate your keyboard, why are you bothering me?

 I thoroughly enjoy a good conversation with a user if they can ask a
 decent and sincere question, and I can tell they are willing to learn.
 
 I think there's a serious lesson to be learned here ... many years ago
 I realized just the kind of crap these people have to deal with on a
 daily basis, and I make it a point to be polite and friendly _any_ time
 I call tech support.  The upshot of this is that I've noticed that I'll
 get answers and help where other people won't ... the tech support folks
 _want_ to stay on the phone with me.

You are absolutely right, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Even I will
admit to not minding hanging on the phone a few extra minutes with a
calm, polite user (no matter how 'green' they are) if they do what I say
(without click-click-clicking in the background) throughout the
troubleshooting process.

We *always* will be up front and honest if we (or any of our wholesalers
or intermediaries) are having issues (that we know about).

Being small, we also expect users to believe that when we tell them that
they are having a problem at their end and they need to call someone in,
that we actually know what we are talking about.

It's the users who scream and bitch and claim it hasn't worked for a
month!, meanwhile their IE is displaying an illegal page fault that are
really frustrating.

 The downside to this is when I make a call and either I or the the tech
 support person knows that they can't fix my problem -- being polite doesn't
 help much.

No, but remaining polite after you _both_ realize this and come to terms
with it will help you remain calm, and help the tech person be able to
deal with the next available irate client a little better.

  When the both of us know that management or the higher level
 tech screwed something up and the tech support folks are supposed to be
 covering it up, there's not much you can really say or do, and that's
 _really_ frustrating.

Yes, I agree. I've been in that position previously during times where I
wasn't connected to my own ISP.

I must say, that my experience working in an ISP environment has
completely changed my attitude when it comes to me having to call a
different ISP on behalf of someone else (mind you, if required, I can
usually find someone there that has a clue).

Steve


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Reid Linnemann
Written by Steve Bertrand on 06/05/09 08:43
 Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support
 people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for
 their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management.
 
 The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had
 a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated,
 angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable
 why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving
 door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months.
 

I did the support gig for the better part of two years when I started
school. It was difficult, especially when the people that were
frustrated, angry, and determined to take it out on me had broken or
ancient hardware and lived out in the boondocks where audible crackling
could be heard over the same phone line they were using to dial in with.
I even had a guy call in once who got irate with me because I wouldn't
help him troubleshoot why his video card was displaying only 256 colors.
He just wanted someone to be mad at, and I was it.

 I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that
 about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error.
 
 Unless it's a relatively small ISP, you can't expect the tech support
 people to be able to answer questions relating to the engineering of
 their network (how many hops to the core), what software they run on
 their servers etc.
 

This is very true. When the ISP I worked at was smaller and had a
support staff of around 10 people, and the network engineers where in
the next room, everyone knew what servers ran what services, what type
of machines they were, what versions of what operating systems were one
them, how to edit the zone files, etc. When that ISP was acquired by a
larger one, and operations expanded and the different departments
separated, things started getting dumb. Rapidly.

 Perhaps if people were to call into their tech support helpdesk every
 once in a while when they *aren't* having any issues just to tell them
 that their doing a heck of a job, and to have a nice day, you might find
 the staff willing to stay around a bit longer and become a little more
 knowledgeable for the next time one calls.
 

IMO, I think it's more laudable to take a minute to calm down when you
have an issue, take a deep breath, consider the position of the guy/girl
on the other end, and then make your tech support call with the
intention of making it productive for the poor dude/lady who is likely
getting bitched at not only from other users, but from his/her own
management as well for having an average call time over 5 minutes or for
taking a 16 minute break when only 15 minutes are allowed. Recognize
that every time that rep's phone rings, he/she feels a wave of horror
and anxiety for what might be on the other end - some problem they can't
solve, and irate user, a fed up user calling to cancel (but management
won't allow them to comply without trying to dissuade the user or put
them through a lengthy exit poll), or maybe the first call to mark the
beginning of an outage, sure to be followed by nothing but irate callers
for the next several hours.
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar


Well, I don't know about cable, but this is the way DSL works. 90%+ of
the issues with DSL are due to the modem losing connectivity overnight,
so a reboot is the quickest and easiest method of troubleshooting.


i don't remember now what brand of modem i have (i'm not in place) from 
Polish Telecom but it never hung for over 1.5 year!



people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for
their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management.


The tech support people do what they are told to do. If you've ever had
a job in which every single incoming call is someone who is frustrated,
angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might be understandable
why the tech support call centre business is like an employee revolving
door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few months.


I think there are people doing this that can work for years. just a matter 
of personal character, they could completely don't care :)




I've been in the industry quite a while, and I would hazard a guess that
about 85% of tech support calls incoming would be user error.


i bet 95%


I do not like dealing directly with users. Most of them complain, bitch
and snivel and have no respect.


I don't agree. 90% of my people i have to respond (my clients) are not 
like that. They ask politely, but the problem is that they ask me to do 
things that is not my job, because internet doesn't work.


There are no connection problems, but as usual windoze doesn't work 
properly.


I have to explain every time that they have to call some kind of
computer/windoze service and pay to have things repaired.

Some still insist that it's our fault, they we have to go to them, run 
some DVD-bootable linux distro with web browser and show that all is fine 
:)

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar

You are absolutely right, and I'm glad you pointed that out. Even I will
admit to not minding hanging on the phone a few extra minutes with a
calm, polite user (no matter how 'green' they are) if they do what I say
(without click-click-clicking in the background) throughout the
troubleshooting process.


To be honest i just don't know windows much so i can't help much.


We *always* will be up front and honest if we (or any of our wholesalers
or intermediaries) are having issues (that we know about).


And that's right. Same if WE have/had problems we simply tell clients the 
truth.



It's the users who scream and bitch and claim it hasn't worked for a
month!,


Simply answer why didn't you call month ago? As you called now, i count 
this as problem started today.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar

I did the support gig for the better part of two years when I started
school. It was difficult, especially when the people that were
frustrated, angry, and determined to take it out on me had broken or
ancient hardware and lived out in the boondocks where audible crackling


Just put the earphone on table and wait until the noise ends :)


I even had a guy call in once who got irate with me because I wouldn't
help him troubleshoot why his video card was displaying only 256 colors.


Simply because it's not your job.


them, how to edit the zone files, etc. When that ISP was acquired by a
larger one, and operations expanded and the different departments
separated, things started getting dumb. Rapidly.


And that's why in any normal system big companies will loose to small 
ones. Small company will ALWAYS be better managed, and run cheaper. But we 
don't live in normal system.



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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Karl Vogel
 On Fri, 05 Jun 2009 09:43:17 -0400, 
 Steve Bertrand st...@ibctech.ca said:

S If you've ever had a job in which every single incoming call is someone
S who is frustrated, angry and is going to take it out on *you*, it might
S be understandable why the tech support call centre business is like an
S employee revolving door, and they can't keep anyone longer than a few
S months.

   I've been at a US Air Force MIS helpdesk since Sept 1988.  I wrote an
   article about some of my favorite tools, and as an aside I mentioned
   my time working in IT support.  My favorite article comment:

 If I'm still doing this in 21 years, someone please write a
 program to kill me.

-- 
Karl Vogel  I don't speak for the USAF or my company

Oh anchor bimbo,
The gleam from your whitened teeth
Gives me a migraine.--snotty media haiku
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-05 Thread Wojciech Puchar

S months.

  I've been at a US Air Force MIS helpdesk since Sept 1988.  I wrote an
  article about some of my favorite tools, and as an aside I mentioned
  my time working in IT support.  My favorite article comment:

If I'm still doing this in 21 years, someone please write a
program to kill me.


just read polish article about whole US army having to switch to windows 
vista because someone decided so - no i fully understand you :)

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Diego F. Arias R.
On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:23 AM, Mark Hartkemeyer hartk...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
 Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
 18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
 ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
 people before I even got some of them answered.

 Here are some of the questions and answers:

 1. What speed connections do you offer?
    5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
    768kBps

 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
    Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package

 3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
    It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
 misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)

 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
    Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
    You need a static IP.

 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
    Talk to residential services.

 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
    Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
 asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
 server on my connection.

 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
    (They didn't know.)

 I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
 asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
 did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
 resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?

 Thanks,
 Mark Hartkemeyer
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8.Q: I need to change my Reverse DNS on my Static IP for running a mail server.
A: What are you talking about? That doesnt Exist.


-- 
mmm, interesante.
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Bill Moran
In response to Mark Hartkemeyer hartk...@gmail.com:

 I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
 Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
 18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
 ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
 people before I even got some of them answered.
 
 Here are some of the questions and answers:
 
 1. What speed connections do you offer?
 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)

If they're doing 5 megabyte per second, then sign me up!

 3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
 It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
 misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)

I suspect you're correct, although it is possible to have multiple
backbones that are different hops away.

 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
 Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.

 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
 Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
 asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
 server on my connection.

That's the stupidest answer I've heard today (just trumped the previous
one).

Reminds me of when I was trying to pay my student loan back, and the bank
refused to tell me what the monthly payment was until I started paying it
back.  No, I'm not making that up or exaggerating.

How do I know what to write the check for?
We'll tell you.
Well then tell me now.
I can't divulge that information until you start making payments.

 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
 (They didn't know.)

Heh.  Can they find the bathroom in the dark?

 I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
 asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
 did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
 resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?

I recommend hooking up with your local user's group.  There's probably a
LUG in Cinci somewhere, and most LUGs I know are pretty friendly to BSD
folks, and there will be someone in the LUG who's already done this
research.  How 'bout this:
http://www.clug.org/

If you meet anyone there who recognizes my name, tell them I said Hi.

-- 
Bill Moran
http://www.potentialtech.com
http://people.collaborativefusion.com/~wmoran/
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Jerry
On Thu, 4 Jun 2009 13:10:17 -0400
Bill Moran wmo...@potentialtech.com wrote:

In response to Mark Hartkemeyer hartk...@gmail.com:

 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
 Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.

Actually, I had a Comcast representative give basically the same
answer. Evidently, they are trying to discourage 'social engineering''
which is probably not such a bad idea.

 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some
 ports? Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
 asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
 server on my connection.

That's the stupidest answer I've heard today (just trumped the previous
one).

If they can run a mail  http server, they are obviously not blocking
ports 25  80. I would like to know how they are handling MX setting
though.

 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
 (They didn't know.)

Heh.  Can they find the bathroom in the dark?

Now the rep should know that, especially if the caller is inquiring
about a business account.


-- 
Jerry
ges...@yahoo.com

Why do so many foods come packaged in plastic?
It's quite uncanny.


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Wojciech Puchar

4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
Can't provide this, due to security reasons.


That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.


It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply 
fear.



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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Wojciech Puchar

That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.


It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply
fear.


Based on the answers provided, I highly doubt that the OP was speaking
to an admin...


Of course not, but THEY require others to not talk about used hardware and 
software because they fear. And they really believe it helps :)


In Poland actually the hated Polish Telecom have best managed IP 
network. Most others are really poor and that's the important reason that 
Polish Telecom have really little competition.


They invested millions of dollars each for hardware, but not employees.

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Steve Bertrand
Wojciech Puchar wrote:
 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
 Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

 That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.
 
 It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good, they simply
 fear.

Based on the answers provided, I highly doubt that the OP was speaking
to an admin...

Steve


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Mark Busby



--- On Thu, 6/4/09, Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl wrote:

 From: Wojciech Puchar woj...@wojtek.tensor.gdynia.pl
 Subject: Re: ISP questions
 To: Bill Moran wmo...@potentialtech.com
 Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
 Date: Thursday, June 4, 2009, 12:56 PM
  4. What kind of hardware and
 software are you running?
      Can't provide this, due
 to security reasons.
 
  That's the stupidest answer I've heard today.
 
 It isn't that stupid. As many ISPs admins aren't very good,
 they simply 
 fear.
 
  Yeah, most admins just get to set around and do nothing but answer questions 
on mailing lists. =) Being short handed, under paid and taking care of the 
support overflow. The time I get to tell some supposed grad student/software 
sales person with a sexy voice. We don't share that information makes my day. 
Just call me paranoid. lol

Locked into contracts with software venders will make you answer Info Not 
Shared. Unable to make changes while you wait for a patch/fix. Your the only 
one who's found this problem, so we'll wait until the next version to patch 
this problem. 

 
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Reid Linnemann
Written by Mark Hartkemeyer on 06/04/09 11:23
 I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
 Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
 18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
 ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
 people before I even got some of them answered.
 
 Here are some of the questions and answers:
 
 1. What speed connections do you offer?
 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
 768kBps
 
 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
 Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package
 
 3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
 It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
 misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)
 
 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
 Can't provide this, due to security reasons.
 
 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
 You need a static IP.
 
 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
 Talk to residential services.
 
 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
 Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
 asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
 server on my connection.
 
 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
 (They didn't know.)
 
 I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
 asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
 did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
 resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?
 
 Thanks,
 Mark Hartkemeyer

These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew
the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was
wrong. There was a point in time when a technical support representative
for an ISP was knowledgeable and courteous, but those days are forever
gone and those reps have been replaced with poorly trained monkeys that
are forbidden to divert from The Script. You could not get any
intelligible information about the ISP's services any more than you
could expect to get intelligible information about a Dell computer's
north bridge controller from a Walmart Associate. This is attributable
to the explosion in popularity of personal internet access, resulting in
a greater need for servicing a high volume of low complexity technical
support requests (e.g., my internet don't work). The reps are paid far
to little to be technically competent and the ISP doesn't get a return
for training them to be proficient when they can just ist them in front
of a knowledge database they've already invested cash into and tell them
to read what it says. You have to meander your way at least up to tier
II or III support to get to anyone who might possibly be invested enough
in the service to know the meaning of your questions and the answers.
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Wojciech Puchar



Your the only one who's found this problem, so we'll wait until the next 
version to patch this problem.


It's just like my upstream network provider. When they have longer 
problems i heard Sorry we working on this, you must be really unlucky, as 
nobody else have problems here.


I asked few their other clients then - they heard exactly the same.
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Wojciech Puchar

These responses don't surprise me. I'm actually impressed your rep knew
the numbers for the up/down bandwidth, even though their metric was


It's just marketing bandwidth as most clients don't understand what it 
mean anyway, but just expect higher value that others for the same price.



It's at most - top limit. Actually - such speed are never achievable 
unless you use it at 3:00 am. Sometimes never at all.


Like local cable TV, they have 6 possible prices for internet access, 
called from 256kbps/64kbps to 10Mbps/2Mbps, actually you rarely see any 
difference and it's closest to lowest offer.


But people like to hear this so they hear, and at least here marketing 
people know perfectly what to answer about internet speed as they call 
it :)

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Bernt Hansson

Mark Hartkemeyer said the following on 2009-06-04 18:23:

I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
people before I even got some of them answered.

Here are some of the questions and answers:

1. What speed connections do you offer?
5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
768kBps


My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month


2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package


Yes 50SEK a month


3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)


No answer


4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
Can't provide this, due to security reasons.


Sun and solaris + linux


5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
You need a static IP.


No. Do it yourself.


6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
Talk to residential services.


No


7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
server on my connection.


Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed


8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
(They didn't know.)


Yes.


I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?

Thanks,
Mark Hartkemeyer


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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Wojciech Puchar

5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
768kBps


My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month


1Gbyte/s? it's 10Gbit/s
What card do you use to connect?


server on my connection.


Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed


So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request.
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Bernt Hansson

Wojciech Puchar said the following on 2009-06-05 01:34:

5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
768kBps


My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month


1Gbyte/s? 


Yes.


it's 10Gbit/s


No.


What card do you use to connect?


A netgear 310fx I only have a 100mb/s


server on my connection.


Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed


So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request.


You can't. But I have a real connection which does not (yet) block the 
ports.

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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Bernt Hansson

NB this is a residential ISP I'm writing about.


Wojciech Puchar said the following on 2009-06-05 01:34:

5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
768kBps


My isp have up to 1Gbyte/s costs 1000SEK a month


1Gbyte/s? it's 10Gbit/s
What card do you use to connect?


server on my connection.


Outgoing port 25, 137-139 closed. Incoming port 137-139, 445 closed


So it's not full internet service unless it can unblock it on request.



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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread Modulok
On 6/4/09, Mark Hartkemeyer hartk...@gmail.com wrote:
 I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
 Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
 18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
 ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
 people before I even got some of them answered.

 Here are some of the questions and answers:

 1. What speed connections do you offer?
 5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
 768kBps

 2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
 Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package

 3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
 It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
 misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)

 4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
 Can't provide this, due to security reasons.

 5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
 You need a static IP.

 6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
 Talk to residential services.

 7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some ports?
 Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
 asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
 server on my connection.

 8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
 (They didn't know.)

 I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
 asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
 did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
 resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?

 Thanks,
 Mark Hartkemeyer

While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake:

- Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable
modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best.

- When faced with questions such as, Do you guys need advanced notice
if I change my ethernet (MAC) address? They inform me that my IP
address is static and I should not change it. (I spoofed the MAC
address. It would have taken years on hold for htem to understand.)

- When I ask them why I have no connection, they go through the
unplug-routine again. I later find out that their service was down for
half the state, but technical support wasn't informed of the outage.

- One time I called after they had switched to a new phone system. I
could hear technical support, but they couldn't hear me:

Technical Support, this is Kathy. How may I help you?
Are you guys having trouble on your end? My connection just bit the dust.
Sir?
Yes, what?
Sir are you there?
Umm...yeah. I'm right here, Kathy. Hello!
*click*

- I never get the bandwidth I pay for, because they oversold their service.

- The guys who wired my location took the most illogical approach
possible. There is probably 500 extra feet of cable that just wraps
around the building from one end to the other.

- When they showed up to install a lighting arrestor, I had to provide
them with tools, because they forgot to bring any. (They forgot to
bring tools!)

- My service was inexplicably cancelled one day, despite me never
being offline. So when I had problems a week later, I was told I
didn't have an account with them. This took four hours on the
telephone (Four freaking hours! Mostly on hold.) to clear up. I think
signing up for a new account would have been less painful. Perhaps I
should have just not said anything and waited to see if I was still
receiving a bill.

- They always ask me to 'go to the start menu', despite the fact I'm
running FreeBSD. One support person didn't know what an operating
system was:

Sir, I need you to go to the start menu...
I'm not on Windows. What is it you're looking for?
Sir?
I'm not using Windows. I'm using FreeBSD.
Free what?
FreeBSD, it's an operating system.
What's an operating system?
... *Oh my God*
Sir are you there?
Yeah, I'm there. I'm in the Windows control panel. Please proceed.

We're pretty rural here, so unless I go with a high latency satellite
connection, they're the only game in town. Maybe I should start my own
ISP. It couldn't be any worse.

Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support
people's fault. They're just there 8-5 trying to make rent and pay for
their kids dental. If you want to blame somebody, blame management.

Best of luck with your troubles. You're not alone!
-Modulok-
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Re: ISP questions

2009-06-04 Thread itsemu
if your dealing with a isp such as a cable/dsl company, remember the
requirements to work there, they arent trained on anything besides windows..
probably dont really know what a static ip is or have any idea what hardware
each different county they are supporting has in there headend because its
all different, reverse dns will probably be a waste of ip space because of
the way its assigned in classes and i seriously doubt they will do it via a
ticket if its not that way. named registration if im catching that right
godaddys probably going to be cheaper maybe im wrong who knows..

On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:34 PM, Modulok modu...@gmail.com wrote:

 On 6/4/09, Mark Hartkemeyer hartk...@gmail.com wrote:
  I'm pretty new to FreeBSD and was reading part of Greg Lehey's The
  Complete FreeBSD 4th Edition.  I found the section on ISPs in chapter
  18 really interesting.  I put some of his recommended questions to my
  ISP, Cincinnati Bell's Zoomtown.  I think I talked to three or four
  people before I even got some of them answered.
 
  Here are some of the questions and answers:
 
  1. What speed connections do you offer?
  5MBps upload/5MBps download (she said bytes, but should it be bits?)
  768kBps
 
  2. Can you supply a static IP address? At what cost?
  Yes, $49.95/month for the whole Internet package
 
  3. How many hops are there to the backbone?
  It depends on the site you're trying to reach. (I think they
  misunderstood what I meant by backbone?)
 
  4. What kind of hardware and software are you running?
  Can't provide this, due to security reasons.
 
  5. Can you supply primary or secondary DNS for me?
  You need a static IP.
 
  6. Can you provide name registration? At what cost?
  Talk to residential services.
 
  7. Do you give complete access to the Internet, or do you block some
 ports?
  Cannot provide this info, due to security reasons.  After
  asking, I was told that I would be able to run a mail server and http
  server on my connection.
 
  8. Do you have complete reverse DNS?
  (They didn't know.)
 
  I assume this is a pretty typical response from ISPs.  Has anyone
  asked their ISP questions like these?  If so, what kind of response
  did you get?  Does anyone know of a really good ISP, or a good
  resource for finding a good ISP around Cincinnati, OH?
 
  Thanks,
  Mark Hartkemeyer

 While it sounds pretty bad, I think my ISP takes the cake:

 - Regardless of the problem, their solution is to unplug the cable
 modem, wait 30 seconds and plug it back in and hope for the best.

 - When faced with questions such as, Do you guys need advanced notice
 if I change my ethernet (MAC) address? They inform me that my IP
 address is static and I should not change it. (I spoofed the MAC
 address. It would have taken years on hold for htem to understand.)

 - When I ask them why I have no connection, they go through the
 unplug-routine again. I later find out that their service was down for
 half the state, but technical support wasn't informed of the outage.

 - One time I called after they had switched to a new phone system. I
 could hear technical support, but they couldn't hear me:

 Technical Support, this is Kathy. How may I help you?
 Are you guys having trouble on your end? My connection just bit the dust.
 Sir?
 Yes, what?
 Sir are you there?
 Umm...yeah. I'm right here, Kathy. Hello!
 *click*

 - I never get the bandwidth I pay for, because they oversold their service.

 - The guys who wired my location took the most illogical approach
 possible. There is probably 500 extra feet of cable that just wraps
 around the building from one end to the other.

 - When they showed up to install a lighting arrestor, I had to provide
 them with tools, because they forgot to bring any. (They forgot to
 bring tools!)

 - My service was inexplicably cancelled one day, despite me never
 being offline. So when I had problems a week later, I was told I
 didn't have an account with them. This took four hours on the
 telephone (Four freaking hours! Mostly on hold.) to clear up. I think
 signing up for a new account would have been less painful. Perhaps I
 should have just not said anything and waited to see if I was still
 receiving a bill.

 - They always ask me to 'go to the start menu', despite the fact I'm
 running FreeBSD. One support person didn't know what an operating
 system was:

 Sir, I need you to go to the start menu...
 I'm not on Windows. What is it you're looking for?
 Sir?
 I'm not using Windows. I'm using FreeBSD.
 Free what?
 FreeBSD, it's an operating system.
 What's an operating system?
 ... *Oh my God*
 Sir are you there?
 Yeah, I'm there. I'm in the Windows control panel. Please proceed.

 We're pretty rural here, so unless I go with a high latency satellite
 connection, they're the only game in town. Maybe I should start my own
 ISP. It couldn't be any worse.

 Despite frustrations try to remember, it's not the tech support
 people's fault.