Re: NOW what?
On Tue, Feb 16, 2010 at 11:32:29AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: [...] If you look is /usr/ports/audio you will find the festival ports. 2 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel512 Jan 25 20:13 festival 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Jan 27 03:07 festival-freebsoft-utils 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Apr 8 2009 festlex-cmu are some of them. When you use the Konqueror browser and have festival correctly installed, you can mouse-swipe a bunch of text and click on the Tools drop-down and have the text read aloud to you. It is fairly difficult to get a computer produce human speech. I found out just some of the problems recently when I began looking at some of the code. Much of festival is written in C++; that I understand somewhat. Other parts are written in some kind of LISP; I do not understand LISP very well. LISP is from Tao. That's why it is not easy to people. Anyway, the point here is that when I find a long, long essay on some philosopher and have to read it, having is spoken to me is *MUCH* easier than making my eyes struggle thru the essay. So far, there are plug-ins to firefox-3 that attempt to read text to you, but nothing I can get to work. Gnome probably does have speech apps by now, but they probably rely on festival as a back-end. Well i cannot produce the problem on my desktop -- FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE. And for now, actually i can't launch firefox because my memory is so low (256M). Instead i use epiphany, which play well under low memory system. Then your -RELEASE version and default GUI environment(eg., KDE, GNOME)? Or i'd like to say that you should take to report as bug by send-pr. My environment is primarily KDE, with some Gnome apps. I'm running 7.1 right now but will soon upgrade to 7.3. It is not a bug that Konqueror is the only browser to offer the festival speech uyilities; but it would be nice if other browsers had the same option. gary Sincerely, -- ? ?(?) | .. ?? 15??.. My voice is out of shape. And honestly, I'm sick of hearing myself sing. -- Johnny Fontane, Chapter 12, page 155 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 07:34:45AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 04:38:54AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:10:38AM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: [... long line snip ...] I just tried again and now Konq did send me to the hyperlink... Was i hallucinating? dunno Hi Gary, how about GNOME's epiphany? Recently i settled down at epiphany for web work. That looks good to me. I like epiphany more and more; the thing it lacks, and the Only reason I use Konq is that it lets me use the festival text-to-speech apps. If *anybody* knows of any other browser that can be set to have festival stuff work, please, Pulsseeze let me know:) Gary, what is festival text-to-speech apps? Can you please tell me what that is? in detail... If i have good idea, i can give you some information -- maybe there is some apps you want for in GNOME packages. If you look is /usr/ports/audio you will find the festival ports. 2 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel512 Jan 25 20:13 festival 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Jan 27 03:07 festival-freebsoft-utils 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Apr 8 2009 festlex-cmu are some of them. When you use the Konqueror browser and have festival correctly installed, you can mouse-swipe a bunch of text and click on the Tools drop-down and have the text read aloud to you. It is fairly difficult to get a computer produce human speech. I found out just some of the problems recently when I began looking at some of the code. Much of festival is written in C++; that I understand somewhat. Other parts are written in some kind of LISP; I do not understand LISP very well. Anyway, the point here is that when I find a long, long essay on some philosopher and have to read it, having is spoken to me is *MUCH* easier than making my eyes struggle thru the essay. So far, there are plug-ins to firefox-3 that attempt to read text to you, but nothing I can get to work. Gnome probably does have speech apps by now, but they probably rely on festival as a back-end. Ah and I'm not sure my word is correct english. My friend, your English is just fine. I am, sadly, still mono-lingual. I am still trying to learn *French* that I took in high school. (*sigh*) If i speak wrong english, you have to communicate mind to mind without appeared word. Ha! Yes, that would be nice, even if it required something you had to wear on your head, :-)Well, maybe in a few hundred years. Plus Gary you study Korean. Korean is easy to study ^^; Sure it's easy; so is climbing a sheer cliff face! I think anybody who can understand English as well as their native language[s], is absolutely outstanding. Congrats. later on, gary Sincerely, -- ? (Hwang, Byung-Hee), KOREA Get in the car. If I wanted to kill you you'd be dead now. Trust me. -- Virgil Sollozzo, Chapter 2, page 77 -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: [...] If you look is /usr/ports/audio you will find the festival ports. 2 drwxr-xr-x 3 root wheel512 Jan 25 20:13 festival 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Jan 27 03:07 festival-freebsoft-utils 2 drwxr-xr-x 2 root wheel512 Apr 8 2009 festlex-cmu are some of them. When you use the Konqueror browser and have festival correctly installed, you can mouse-swipe a bunch of text and click on the Tools drop-down and have the text read aloud to you. It is fairly difficult to get a computer produce human speech. I found out just some of the problems recently when I began looking at some of the code. Much of festival is written in C++; that I understand somewhat. Other parts are written in some kind of LISP; I do not understand LISP very well. LISP is from Tao. That's why it is not easy to people. Anyway, the point here is that when I find a long, long essay on some philosopher and have to read it, having is spoken to me is *MUCH* easier than making my eyes struggle thru the essay. So far, there are plug-ins to firefox-3 that attempt to read text to you, but nothing I can get to work. Gnome probably does have speech apps by now, but they probably rely on festival as a back-end. Well i cannot produce the problem on my desktop -- FreeBSD 8.0-RELEASE. And for now, actually i can't launch firefox because my memory is so low (256M). Instead i use epiphany, which play well under low memory system. Then your -RELEASE version and default GUI environment(eg., KDE, GNOME)? Or i'd like to say that you should take to report as bug by send-pr. Sincerely, -- 소여물 황병희(黃炳熙) | .. 출항 15분전.. My voice is out of shape. And honestly, I'm sick of hearing myself sing. -- Johnny Fontane, Chapter 12, page 155 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 04:38:54AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:10:38AM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: [... long line snip ...] I just tried again and now Konq did send me to the hyperlink... Was i hallucinating? dunno Hi Gary, how about GNOME's epiphany? Recently i settled down at epiphany for web work. That looks good to me. I like epiphany more and more; the thing it lacks, and the Only reason I use Konq is that it lets me use the festival text-to-speech apps. If *anybody* knows of any other browser that can be set to have festival stuff work, please, Pulsseeze let me know:) Gary, what is festival text-to-speech apps? Can you please tell me what that is? in detail... If i have good idea, i can give you some information -- maybe there is some apps you want for in GNOME packages. Ah and i'm not sure my word is correct english. If i speak wrong english, you have to communicate mind to mind without appeared word. Plus Gary you study Korean. Korean is easy to study ^^; Sincerely, -- 황병희 (Hwang, Byung-Hee), KOREA Get in the car. If I wanted to kill you you'd be dead now. Trust me. -- Virgil Sollozzo, Chapter 2, page 77 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
On Sat, Feb 13, 2010 at 04:38:54AM +0900, Byung-Hee HWANG wrote: Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:10:38AM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: [... long line snip ...] I just tried again and now Konq did send me to the hyperlink... Was i hallucinating? dunno Hi Gary, how about GNOME's epiphany? Recently i settled down at epiphany for web work. That looks good to me. I like epiphany more and more; the thing it lacks, and the Only reason I use Konq is that it lets me use the festival text-to-speech apps. If *anybody* knows of any other browser that can be set to have festival stuff work, please, Pulsseeze let me know:) gary Sincerely, -- We'll meet him later. -- Michael Corleone, Chapter 1, page 42 -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:10:38AM -0800, Gary Kline wrote:
Guys,
this has happened once before with kde Konqueror; but i can't remember
where/what i clicked. maybe somebody onlist can help me. When i click on
a link on Konq, a popup / dialog displays asking where i want to save the
link; it =does not= move me to the linked page. --there are some links i
want to save but i chose those links, rarely, from the Location menu.
i just clicked on the Location - Open with firefox3 dropdown. On FF, I
can click on various links and actually go there. {{ sometimes a reboot
fixes this save-page problem; not this time. }}
anybody?
gary
I just tried again and now Konq did send me to the hyperlink...
Was i hallucinating? dunno
-g
--
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix
http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php
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http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org
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Re: NOW what?
Gary Kline kl...@thought.org writes: On Fri, Feb 12, 2010 at 10:10:38AM -0800, Gary Kline wrote: [... long line snip ...] I just tried again and now Konq did send me to the hyperlink... Was i hallucinating? dunno Hi Gary, how about GNOME's epiphany? Recently i settled down at epiphany for web work. That looks good to me. Sincerely, -- We'll meet him later. -- Michael Corleone, Chapter 1, page 42 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
Gary Kline wrote: My new server is back out of harm's way, but now, upon reboot, no mail. I have tail -f maillog and get Domain not found Yes, i did edit my DNS files, but I think i have a backup. Can anybody clue me in so i don't do this by mistake again? thanks. Are we talking about ethic.thought.org? (Personally I think it's a bit arrogant of you to assume we all remember the details of your network from week to week, but I'm a grouch, and other's mileage almost certainly varies.) Is your mail server on ethic.thought.org? If so, you're probably just running into a race condition, given that your *only* nameserver for thought.org is also on ethic. Or at least your only announced nameserver. In other words, your mailserver is quite possibly starting up, attempting a dns lookup and timing out, all before your nameserver is up and running. What happens if you restart just your mailserver at this time? If that doesn't resolve the matter, give us some details about where your nameserver and mailserver live, and give us the contents of /etc/resolv.conf on the mailserver, and tell us for which e-mail addresses e-mail isn't flowing. --Jon Radel j...@radel.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 11:10:15AM -0800, Jon Radel wrote: Gary Kline wrote: My new server is back out of harm's way, but now, upon reboot, no mail. I have tail -f maillog and get Domain not found Yes, i did edit my DNS files, but I think i have a backup. Can anybody clue me in so i don't do this by mistake again? thanks. Are we talking about ethic.thought.org? (Personally I think it's a bit arrogant of you to assume we all remember the details of your network from week to week, but I'm a grouch, and other's mileage almost certainly varies.) Is your mail server on ethic.thought.org? If so, you're probably just running into a race condition, given that your *only* nameserver for thought.org is also on ethic. Or at least your only announced nameserver. In other words, your mailserver is quite possibly starting up, attempting a dns lookup and timing out, all before your nameserver is up and running. What happens if you restart just your mailserver at this time? If that doesn't resolve the matter, give us some details about where your nameserver and mailserver live, and give us the contents of /etc/resolv.conf on the mailserver, and tell us for which e-mail addresses e-mail isn't flowing. --Jon Radel j...@radel.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org Well, apologies all around, more or less. To resolve my DNS problems I just copied over my backup SAVED/db.thought.org to my newer, broken copy, updated the Serail njmber, and restarted things. It was a good lesson that I should NOT have ever dared to mess around with IPv6 ... but I did. And yup, after moving the server everything restarted. And that v6 stuff busted things. [ten mins later with coffee kicking in]:: a question on the nameserver stuff: given that I have only one ISP, how could I have another nameserver? ethic is DNS, mail, and web. I've got two secondary nameservers. One in Dallas, a second in England. I did restart dovecot last night; it didn't help. p0 11:44 ethic [1031] cat resolv.conf domain thought.org nameserver 10.47.0.230 What I really think broke things was to have left the addr rec in their blindly. : NS ns1.thought.org. @ IN 2002:d1b4:d5d2:: -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
Gary Kline wrote: It was a good lesson that I should NOT have ever dared to mess around with IPv6 ... but I did. And yup, after moving the server everything restarted. And that v6 stuff busted things. H...yes, putting IPv6 addresses into your DNS w/o your IPv6 network actually working does tend to break things all over the place. You really need a test server to play with rather than subjecting your main [only] server to these experiments. ;-) [ten mins later with coffee kicking in]:: a question on the nameserver stuff: given that I have only one ISP, how could I have another nameserver? ethic is DNS, mail, and web. I've got two secondary nameservers. One in Dallas, a second in England. Wellwhich is it? One or three nameservers I find it helps to think of nameservers as being of two types: 1) Resolving nameservers These are the servers that *your* machines use to look up addresses, both your own and things like www.google.com. You can use your own server. Your ISP would also have one or more available for customer use. I'd suggest using a list of servers rather than just one. This list is what you'd set up in /etc/resolv.conf. 2) Authoritative nameservers These are the servers that tell everyone about thought.org (in your case). You say that you have one on ethic.thought.org and 2 secondaries in Dallas and England. However, given that neither your parent servers nor your own zone file as found on ethic mention those two other servers, it's very unlikely that they're doing you any good at all. (There are advanced scenarios where hidden secondaries are useful, but I don't think any of them apply to your network.) BTW, a single install of a name server on a single machine is perfectly capable of acting as both a resolving and an authoritative server, but it still helps, IMHO, to consider it as serving two different roles. (All of which leaves aside the security issues involved) I would suggest you find out what servers your ISP makes available as resolving servers for customers, and use ethic followed by those servers in resolv.conf and other such setup. I would suggest you find out if those secondary servers are actually syncing the data from ethic, and if so, list them with your domain registrar and in NS records in your dns zone. With those two steps, dns as a whole will become a bit more resilient for you. --Jon Radel j...@radel.com ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: NOW what?
On Thu, Dec 31, 2009 at 12:48:07PM -0800, Jon Radel wrote: Gary Kline wrote: It was a good lesson that I should NOT have ever dared to mess around with IPv6 ... but I did. And yup, after moving the server everything restarted. And that v6 stuff busted things. H...yes, putting IPv6 addresses into your DNS w/o your IPv6 network actually working does tend to break things all over the place. You really need a test server to play with rather than subjecting your main [only] server to these experiments. ;-) Hm. If live 'n' learn is the best teacher, than my experiences last night were worthy. [ten mins later with coffee kicking in]:: a question on the nameserver stuff: given that I have only one ISP, how could I have another nameserver? ethic is DNS, mail, and web. I've got two secondary nameservers. One in Dallas, a second in England. Wellwhich is it? One or three nameservers I find it helps to think of nameservers as being of two types: 1) Resolving nameservers These are the servers that *your* machines use to look up addresses, both your own and things like www.google.com. You can use your own server. Your ISP would also have one or more available for customer use. I'd suggest using a list of servers rather than just one. This list is what you'd set up in /etc/resolv.conf. 2) Authoritative nameservers These are the servers that tell everyone about thought.org (in your case). You say that you have one on ethic.thought.org and 2 secondaries in Dallas and England. However, given that neither your parent servers nor your own zone file as found on ethic mention those two other servers, it's very unlikely that they're doing you any good at all. (There are advanced scenarios where hidden secondaries are useful, but I don't think any of them apply to your network.) Would it help if I send you my named.conf. And my master/thought.org database file...? I don't think it would 'hurt' to share m y configuration, but why spent the bandwidth? From what I See, ethic is my SOA. Ethic is my primary [ns1.thought.org]. Steve Bertrand said that I am missing including 'thought.org' A record from the database file. SO I followed his example and added the ^@ IN A209.180.213.210 (along with my address record :( ) I have left out my own A record for the time being Jon Horne's DFW site as well as Daniel Bye's secondary are listed in named.conf. Note that two years ago when everything began collapsing--mail, and the web, this guy in Dallas came to my rescue. Now that I am reorganizing *again*, I would like to have things done right. I won't even breath on the Dell. Actually, I can't now that it's back in the corner! BTW, a single install of a name server on a single machine is perfectly capable of acting as both a resolving and an authoritative server, but it still helps, IMHO, to consider it as serving two different roles. (All of which leaves aside the security issues involved) I have my DSL thru the telco, USQuest or Quest. I have a set of 5 IPs from them. For some reason, Quest consider me as a business, [???], but their service has been pretty good so far. Having a second line from them or another provider might make sense if I were making money from this. Nada. I would suggest you find out what servers your ISP makes available as resolving servers for customers, and use ethic followed by those servers in resolv.conf and other such setup. I would suggest you find out if those secondary servers are actually syncing the data from ethic, and if so, list them with your domain registrar and in NS records in your dns zone. With those two steps, dns as a whole will become a bit more resilient for you. Thanks for the advice. I'll see if Quest says what secondaries they have. --Jon Radel j...@radel.com -- Gary Kline kl...@thought.org http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org The 7.79a release of Jottings: http://jottings.thought.org/index.php ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions-unsubscr...@freebsd.org
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Tuesday 20 May 2008 16:44, RW wrote: On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:50 +0200 Jonathan McKeown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 20 May 2008 02:41, RW wrote: On Mon, 19 May 2008 21:46:03 +1200 Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Why does that make a difference, when print always evaluates to true? x AND true = x so (a OR b) AND true = a OR b a OR (b AND true) = a OR b It makes a difference (as in programming) because -print is used for its side-effect rather than its value, and the binding order influences when the side-effect happens. That's still a bit counter-intuitive because in normal programming languages the binding order modifies side-effects via the evaluation order. And in both cases the evaluation order would be expected to be left-to-right, with -print running last. Yes. I'm actually talking rubbish. find evaluates its argument expression left-to-right, and the ``precedence'' actually applies to term grouping rather than evaluation order. (This does affect the outcome, but not in the way I glibly said it did). What I should have said is that like a lot of programming languages, find is lazy when it comes to Boolean expressions: when it gets a TRUE in an -or or a FALSE in an -and, the value of the whole expression must be TRUE or FALSE respectively, regardless of what the remaining terms are, so why bother evaluating them? (It's usually referred to as short-circuiting). I guess what you are saying is that the side-effect of print is based-on a Boolean running-value. And without the brackets, the first test has been evaluated, but not yet ORed into that running-value, by the time that print runs. That's not quite how it works. Rewriting find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print using extra parens to emphasise the implicit grouping, and including the implicit -and, gives: find /usr/src -name Makefile -or \( -name '*.mk' -and -print \) in other words, an -or with two terms, one of which happens to be an expression. If -name Makefile is true, the -or is satisfied, so nothing else is evaluated, and find goes on to the next filename. Otherwise, the expression in the second term has to be evaluated. If -name '*.mk' is false, the -and is satisfied (which also satisfies the -or) and find moves to the next filename. If it's true, the -and can't be satisfied without evaluating the -print. The end result is that only files matching '*.mk' are printed. Rewriting the other case, find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -and -print If the first expression is false, the -and is satisfied and the -print is not evaluated. If the first expression is true (meaning either of the -name arguments is true), then the -and can't be satisfied without evaluating the -print. The last case is find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' find quickly analyses this, finds no output action, and converts it to the second form above, internally placing parens around the whole expression and an -and -print after it. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Tuesday 20 May 2008 02:41, RW wrote: On Mon, 19 May 2008 21:46:03 +1200 Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:49:35AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: Riddle for the day for folks that have source trees... what would you expect this to print out (ask yourself the question and then execute the command)? find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print The expected output and what actual output differed in my mind, but maybe somebody else can shed some light on the logic behind what happened It's a problem that catches many young players with find(1). One has to remember from reading the man-page that all directives have an implicit AND operator on it; and that includes the -print directive. So to get what you want, you have to introduce brackets: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Why does that make a difference, when print always evaluates to true? x AND true = x so (a OR b) AND true = a OR b a OR (b AND true) = a OR b It makes a difference (as in programming) because -print is used for its side-effect rather than its value, and the binding order influences when the side-effect happens. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Tue, 20 May 2008 11:33:50 +0200 Jonathan McKeown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Tuesday 20 May 2008 02:41, RW wrote: On Mon, 19 May 2008 21:46:03 +1200 Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Why does that make a difference, when print always evaluates to true? x AND true = x so (a OR b) AND true = a OR b a OR (b AND true) = a OR b It makes a difference (as in programming) because -print is used for its side-effect rather than its value, and the binding order influences when the side-effect happens. That's still a bit counter-intuitive because in normal programming languages the binding order modifies side-effects via the evaluation order. And in both cases the evaluation order would be expected to be left-to-right, with -print running last. I guess what you are saying is that the side-effect of print is based-on a Boolean running-value. And without the brackets, the first test has been evaluated, but not yet ORed into that running-value, by the time that print runs. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:49:35AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: Riddle for the day for folks that have source trees... what would you expect this to print out (ask yourself the question and then execute the command)? find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print The expected output and what actual output differed in my mind, but maybe somebody else can shed some light on the logic behind what happened It's a problem that catches many young players with find(1). One has to remember from reading the man-page that all directives have an implicit AND operator on it; and that includes the -print directive. So to get what you want, you have to introduce brackets: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Cheers. -- Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- If you're right 90% of the time, why quibble about the remaining 3%? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
Riddle for the day for folks that have source trees... what would you expect this to print out (ask yourself the question and then execute the command)? find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print The expected output and what actual output differed in my mind, but maybe somebody else can shed some light on the logic behind what happened [I read through the find(1) code and can see why it does what it does, but I still don't find the result useful]. Looks like you wanted to do this: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -o -name '*.mk' \) -print Implicit operator is and (-a) and is arithmetic, and is equivalent to multiplication, or is equivalent to addition ... so and as the priority. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Monday 19 May 2008 11:46, Jonathan Chen wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:49:35AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: Riddle for the day for folks that have source trees... what would you expect this to print out (ask yourself the question and then execute the command)? find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print The expected output and what actual output differed in my mind, but maybe somebody else can shed some light on the logic behind what happened It's a problem that catches many young players with find(1). One has to remember from reading the man-page that all directives have an implicit AND operator on it; and that includes the -print directive. So to get what you want, you have to introduce brackets: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Or, slightly bizarrely, just leave the -print off altogether - as the manpage says, If none of -exec, -ls, -print0, or -ok is specified, the given expression shall be effectively replaced by ( given expression ) -print. [Note the parens around given expression] I forget where I saw this quote first, but the last five words always make me think of the find command: Real Programmers consider what you see is what you get to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a you asked for it, you got it text editor - complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. Jonathan ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Mon, 19 May 2008 21:46:03 +1200 Jonathan Chen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mon, May 19, 2008 at 01:49:35AM -0700, Garrett Cooper wrote: Riddle for the day for folks that have source trees... what would you expect this to print out (ask yourself the question and then execute the command)? find /usr/src -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' -print The expected output and what actual output differed in my mind, but maybe somebody else can shed some light on the logic behind what happened It's a problem that catches many young players with find(1). One has to remember from reading the man-page that all directives have an implicit AND operator on it; and that includes the -print directive. So to get what you want, you have to introduce brackets: find /usr/src \( -name Makefile -or -name '*.mk' \) -print Why does that make a difference, when print always evaluates to true? x AND true = x so (a OR b) AND true = a OR b a OR (b AND true) = a OR b ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Now what would you expect this to print out?
On Mon, 19 May 2008 12:40:46 +0200, Jonathan McKeown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I forget where I saw this quote first, but the last five words always make me think of the find command: Real Programmers consider what you see is what you get to be just as bad a concept in Text Editors as it is in women. No, the Real Programmer wants a you asked for it, you got it text editor - complicated, cryptic, powerful, unforgiving, dangerous. The page at http://www.pbm.com/~lindahl/real.programmers.html suggests that this quote is from ``A letter to the editor of Datamation, volume 29 number 7, July 1983.'' The author of that page writes ``I've long ago lost my dog-eared photocopy, but I believe this was written (and is copyright) by Ed Post, Tektronix, Wilsonville OR USA,'' so it may be a bit tricky to verify the claim. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
