subject:"Re\: a"

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 05:02:22 -0400
Michael Powell wrote:

 David Demelier wrote:
 
  Hello there,
  
  I'm writing because after a power failure I was unable to log in on
  my FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE. The SU+J journal were executed correctly
  but some files disappeared, including /etc/pwd.db. Thus I was
  unable to log in.
  
  I've been able to regenerate the password database with a live cd
  but I'm afraid that more files had disappeared somewhere else...
  
  I think this is a serious issue, the journal should not truncate
  files, so something should have gone wrong somewhere..

The journalling in  SU+J has nothing to do with data integrity.

When the system isn't shut-down cleanly, soft-updates are supposed to
leave the filesystem in a self-consistent state, except that it may
lose track of some freed disk space. The journal allows that space to
be recovered without the lengthy background fsck that used to cripple
performance.

If you are having problems with data integrity you might try gjournal or
zfs instead. If you look back at the lists before these were added
there was a lot of suspicion about soft-updates and background checks.
Some of the problems were explained by some (mostly desktop) drives
incorrecty reporting what has been commited to disk - I don't know
whether this is still the case.


 This error about the replay of the journal(s) failing is somewhat 
 disconcerting. 

I think this is probably a good thing. With background checks you would
(if you were looking) occasionally see unexpected soft-update
inconsistency during the background check, which would lead to a
foreground check on the next boot.



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Re: Reinstall without reformat


On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Polytropon wrote:


On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 23:01:02 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Polytropon wrote:


On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:24:30 -0400, Kenta Suzumoto wrote:

Hi all. Is it possible to install FreeBSD without formatting the disk?


Yes. The installer supports not formatting existing partitions.
The file system characteristica will be kept, possible content
will overwritten. Note that superfluous content will also be
kept, except of course you previously remove everything.


sysinstall supported that, but AFAIK bsdinstall does not.


Oh, seems you're right. I've checked The FreeBSD Handbook for
the relevant instructions for using bsdinstall at

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/bsdinstall-partitioning.html

and

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/bsdinstall-final-warning.html

and I didn't find an option to _not_ initialize existing partitions,
even though it seems you can assign existing partitions without any
problem. The remaining question: Will they be initialized again?


It is possible to mount filesystems manually from the shell and have 
bsdinstall continue with the install without formatting them.  It's been 
a while since I tried that, and I don't recall the exact details. 
bsdinstall(8) suggests it may be as easy as just having the existing 
filesystems mounted at /mnt.  Still, not something to try without a 
backup.

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Re: firefox: after update - version 23: can not swap tabs


On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, O. Hartmann wrote:


FF is in my case 24, too:

pkg info firefox
firefox-24.0,1

Have you done updating the ports regarding

20130929

in /usr/ports/UPDATING? I did on all boxes and on all boxes I did the
tab-stickyness is present.


Firefox 24 allows tab moves for me on both 9-stable and 10-stable.

The pixman update missed some files for me, resolved by using pkg_libchk 
(from sysutils/bsdadminscripts) to find the ports that needed rebuilding 
and then rebuilding them.

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Re: Reinstall without reformat

2013-10-14 Thread Polytropon

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 07:51:15 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote:
 It is possible to mount filesystems manually from the shell and have 
 bsdinstall continue with the install without formatting them.  It's been 
 a while since I tried that, and I don't recall the exact details. 
 bsdinstall(8) suggests it may be as easy as just having the existing 
 filesystems mounted at /mnt.  Still, not something to try without a 
 backup.

So if I understand everything correctly, the decision logic
is -- when partitions do already exist -- as follows:

a) existing partitions not mounted:
   run newfs
   mount partitions
   copy files

b) existing partitions mounted:
   do not run newfs
   copy files

The installer itself doesn't seem to give a hint about
this logic, even though the manual _might_ suggest it.
I haven't examined the source code to fully verify this
logic, even though it would be a reasonable approach.


-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Reinstall without reformat

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Sierchio

The brutal and brute-force approach can work - better if you boot from
a USB stick, of course. You can untar base.tzx and kernel.tzx in your
/, with filesystems mounted.  As Polytropon says, do a backup of what
you'll want afterwards.

This approach will leave a lot of cruft (old versions of shared
libraries, etc.), but will certainly work.  Grab the distribution from

(in this case, the example is for 9.2, i386)

ftp://ftp.freebsd.org/pub/FreeBSD/releases/i386/i386/9.2-RELEASE
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On 14.10.2013 14:39, RW wrote:
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 05:02:22 -0400
 Michael Powell wrote:
 
 David Demelier wrote:

 Hello there,

 I'm writing because after a power failure I was unable to log in on
 my FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE. The SU+J journal were executed correctly
 but some files disappeared, including /etc/pwd.db. Thus I was
 unable to log in.

 I've been able to regenerate the password database with a live cd
 but I'm afraid that more files had disappeared somewhere else...

 I think this is a serious issue, the journal should not truncate
 files, so something should have gone wrong somewhere..
 
 The journalling in  SU+J has nothing to do with data integrity.
 
 When the system isn't shut-down cleanly, soft-updates are supposed to
 leave the filesystem in a self-consistent state, except that it may
 lose track of some freed disk space. The journal allows that space to
 be recovered without the lengthy background fsck that used to cripple
 performance.
 
 If you are having problems with data integrity you might try gjournal or
 zfs instead.

Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?

On GNU/Linux, on Windows you will not require anything else to recover
your data.

I don't want to tweak the filesystem or use something different that the
default, as it is the default it's the *warranty* that it is the correct
way to protect data for new FreeBSD user's installations IMHO.

 If you look back at the lists before these were added
 there was a lot of suspicion about soft-updates and background checks.
 Some of the problems were explained by some (mostly desktop) drives
 incorrecty reporting what has been commited to disk - I don't know
 whether this is still the case.
 
 
 This error about the replay of the journal(s) failing is somewhat 
 disconcerting. 
 
 I think this is probably a good thing. With background checks you would
 (if you were looking) occasionally see unexpected soft-update
 inconsistency during the background check, which would lead to a
 foreground check on the next boot.
 
 
 
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:34 PM, David Demelier
demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
 system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?

 On GNU/Linux, on Windows you will not require anything else to recover
 your data.

 I don't want to tweak the filesystem or use something different that the
 default, as it is the default it's the *warranty* that it is the correct
 way to protect data for new FreeBSD user's installations IMHO.

Agree :-) SU+J also seems to cause problems on SSD drives:

http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-fs/2013-February/016420.html

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:34 AM, David Demelier
demelier.da...@gmail.comwrote:


 Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
 system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?


As already stated, those measures are to preserve fs integrity eg meta data
is in sync.  It doesn't ensure that all the outstanding writes are
committed to disk in the event of a power outage.

On GNU/Linux, on Windows you will not require anything else to recover
 your data.


This is complete garbage when using default settings as you imply below.
The default for ext3 on basically every distro still using ext3 is an
ordered journal and don't even get started on ext4.  NTFS by default
can/will also lose data on a power outage.


 I don't want to tweak the filesystem or use something different that the
 default, as it is the default it's the *warranty* that it is the correct
 way to protect data for new FreeBSD user's installations IMHO.


There is no *warranty* as explicitly stated in
http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html

The behavior you wish would slow down disk writes by an order of magnitude
and is already available to users willing to use non-default settings.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:34 AM, David Demelier
 demelier.da...@gmail.comwrote:

 Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
 system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?

 As already stated, those measures are to preserve fs integrity eg meta data
 is in sync.  It doesn't ensure that all the outstanding writes are
 committed to disk in the event of a power outage.

Then why random files gets damaged as well even they are not
accessed/written on power loss? :-)

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: Tuning /etc/sysctl.conf

2013-10-14 Thread Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina

Mmm... just a correction in /etc/sysctl.conf, it seems that by mistake I've
copied a website link into the file. Sorry, it was a copy-paste error :)

% cat /etc/sysctl.conf
# $FreeBSD: release/9.2.0/etc/sysctl.conf 112200 2003-03-13 18:43:50Z mux $
#
#  This file is read when going to multi-user and its contents piped thru
#  ``sysctl'' to adjust kernel values.  ``man 5 sysctl.conf'' for details.
#

# Uncomment this to prevent users from seeing information about processes
that
# are being run under another UID.
#security.bsd.see_other_uids=0
vfs.usermount=1
hw.snd.default_unit=2
kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216
kern.ipc.nmbclusters=32768
kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1
kern.ipc.somaxconn=8192
kern.maxfiles=65536
kern.maxfilesperproc=32768
net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0
net.inet.tcp.path_mtu_discovery=0
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=16384
net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216
net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536
net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=8192
net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536
net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
net.inet.udp.maxdgram=57344
net.inet.udp.recvspace=65536
net.local.stream.recvspace=65536
net.local.stream.sendspace=65536
net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216
net.inet.ip.random_id=1

# Allow for up 2 GB of wired memory.
vm.max_wired=524288



2013/10/14 Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina cjpug...@gmail.com

 Hi people,

 I'm very interested to tuning /etc/sysctl.conf according to the
 specifications of my PC. I've been reading some guides [1], tutorials
 [2-3], QA [4] and the FreeBSD Handbook's related section 12.12 Tuning with
 sysctl(8), but I think it's much more convenient if I contrast it with
 other examples or experienced users.

 Here is my relevant info outputs for help to improve the sysctl(8)
 variables.

  % uname -a
 FreeBSD freebsd 9.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE #0 r255898: Fri Sep 27
 03:52:52 UTC 2013 r...@bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
  i386

  % dmesg | grep CPU
 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz (2394.06-MHz 686-class CPU)
 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0
 p4tcc0: CPU Frequency Thermal Control on cpu0

  % dmesg | grep memory
 real memory  = 2147483648 (2048 MB)
 avail memory = 2082701312 (1986 MB)

  % pciconf -lvv | grep -n2 Ethernet
 41-sis0@pci0:0:4:0: class=0x02 card=0x80a71043 chip=0x09001039
 rev=0x91 hdr=0x00
 42-vendor = 'Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]'
 43:device = 'SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet'
 44-class  = network
 45-subclass   = ethernet

 My /etc/sysctl.conf

 # $FreeBSD: release/9.2.0/etc/sysctl.conf 112200 2003-03-13 18:43:50Z mux $
 #
 #  This file is read when going to multi-user and its contents piped thru
 #  ``sysctl'' to adjust kernel values.  ``man 5 sysctl.conf'' for details.
 #

 # Uncomment this to prevent users from seeing information about processes
 that
 # are being run under another UID.
 #security.bsd.see_other_uids=0
 vfs.usermount=1
 hw.snd.default_unit=2
 kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216
 kern.ipc.nmbclusters=32768
 kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1
 kern.ipc.somaxconn=8192
 kern.maxfiles=65536
 kern.maxfilesperproc=32768
 net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
 net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0
 net.inet.tcp.path_mtu_discovery=0
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=16384
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=8192
 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
 net.inet.udp.maxdgram=57344
 net.inet.udp.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.ip.random_id=1

 http://serverfault.com/questions/64356/freebsd-performance-tuning-sysctls-loader-conf-kernel
 # Allow for up 2 GB of wired memory.
 vm.max_wired=524288

 I will appreciate any input about the subject.
 --CJPM

 [1] http://harryd71.blogspot.com.es/2008/10/tuning-freenas-zfs.html
 [2] https://wiki.freebsd.org/SystemTuning#SYSCTL_TUNING
 [3] https://wiki.freebsd.org/NetworkPerformanceTuning
 [4]
 http://serverfault.com/questions/64356/freebsd-performance-tuning-sysctls-loader-conf-kernel

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:


 Then why random files gets damaged as well even they are not
 accessed/written on power loss? :-)


Prove they weren't.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:56 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:50 AM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 Then why random files gets damaged as well even they are not
 accessed/written on power loss? :-)
 Prove they weren't.

Hmm, maybe /etc/pwd.db as David mentioned? This is updated on password
change, which does not happen all the time.. so why it was damaged
when no write occured..?

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: Tuning /etc/sysctl.conf

2013-10-14 Thread Steve O'Hara-Smith

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:35:49 +0200
Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina cjpug...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi people,
 
 I'm very interested to tuning /etc/sysctl.conf according to the
 specifications of my PC.

As a general rule it is more appropriate to think of tuning in
terms of the workload you intend to apply to your PC. Most changes you can
make will benefit some workflows at the cost of making others less
efficient.

-- 
Steve O'Hara-Smith st...@sohara.org
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Brad Mettee


On 10/14/2013 12:50 PM, CeDeROM wrote:

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:47 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.com wrote:

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 11:34 AM, David Demelier
demelier.da...@gmail.comwrote:

Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?

As already stated, those measures are to preserve fs integrity eg meta data
is in sync.  It doesn't ensure that all the outstanding writes are
committed to disk in the event of a power outage.

Then why random files gets damaged as well even they are not
accessed/written on power loss? :-)
Random files can be affected because the sectors of the hard disk 
containing the directory entries for those files, not the file data 
itself, may be damaged (ie: the directory was in the process of being 
written OR the pointer to that SECTOR was in the process of being written).


It doesn't mean a file was in active use, just that a chunk of the disk 
with data relevant to that file was. Keep in mind, one sector of disk 
may have data for a dozen files in it (or more). Damage doesn't have to 
occur because a given file was in use at the time of a crash.


If your power grid is prone to failures or blips, I strongly suggest 
investing in a UPS.


Brad

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 7:09 PM, Brad Mettee bmet...@pchotshots.com wrote:
 On 10/14/2013 12:50 PM, CeDeROM wrote:
 Then why random files gets damaged as well even they are not
 accessed/written on power loss? :-)

 Random files can be affected because the sectors of the hard disk containing
 the directory entries for those files, not the file data itself, may be
 damaged (ie: the directory was in the process of being written OR the
 pointer to that SECTOR was in the process of being written).

 It doesn't mean a file was in active use, just that a chunk of the disk with
 data relevant to that file was. Keep in mind, one sector of disk may have
 data for a dozen files in it (or more). Damage doesn't have to occur because
 a given file was in use at the time of a crash.

Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage?

 If your power grid is prone to failures or blips, I strongly suggest
 investing in a UPS.

I have UPS in my desktop and also I am working on a laptop, so the
power supply is not the only possible cause of system crash.. this may
be faulty driver, hardware failure, kernel panic, etc.

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: Tuning /etc/sysctl.conf

2013-10-14 Thread Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina

Hi Steve,

I use it as a paticular desktop PC. Well, if you need more details about
it, please, let me know.
What do you think about current tuning?

Thanks
--CJPM


2013/10/14 Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina cjpug...@gmail.com

 Mmm... just a correction in /etc/sysctl.conf, it seems that by mistake
 I've copied a website link into the file. Sorry, it was a copy-paste error
 :)

 % cat /etc/sysctl.conf
 # $FreeBSD: release/9.2.0/etc/sysctl.conf 112200 2003-03-13 18:43:50Z mux $
 #
 #  This file is read when going to multi-user and its contents piped thru
 #  ``sysctl'' to adjust kernel values.  ``man 5 sysctl.conf'' for details.
 #

 # Uncomment this to prevent users from seeing information about processes
 that
 # are being run under another UID.
 #security.bsd.see_other_uids=0
 vfs.usermount=1
 hw.snd.default_unit=2
 kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216
 kern.ipc.nmbclusters=32768
 kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1
 kern.ipc.somaxconn=8192
 kern.maxfiles=65536
 kern.maxfilesperproc=32768
 net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
 net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0
 net.inet.tcp.path_mtu_discovery=0
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=16384
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=8192
 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
 net.inet.udp.maxdgram=57344
 net.inet.udp.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.ip.random_id=1

 # Allow for up 2 GB of wired memory.
 vm.max_wired=524288



 2013/10/14 Carlos Jacobo Puga Medina cjpug...@gmail.com

 Hi people,

 I'm very interested to tuning /etc/sysctl.conf according to the
 specifications of my PC. I've been reading some guides [1], tutorials
 [2-3], QA [4] and the FreeBSD Handbook's related section 12.12 Tuning with
 sysctl(8), but I think it's much more convenient if I contrast it with
 other examples or experienced users.

 Here is my relevant info outputs for help to improve the sysctl(8)
 variables.

  % uname -a
 FreeBSD freebsd 9.2-RELEASE FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE #0 r255898: Fri Sep 27
 03:52:52 UTC 2013 r...@bake.isc.freebsd.org:/usr/obj/usr/src/sys/GENERIC
  i386

  % dmesg | grep CPU
 CPU: Intel(R) Pentium(R) 4 CPU 2.40GHz (2394.06-MHz 686-class CPU)
 cpu0: ACPI CPU on acpi0
 p4tcc0: CPU Frequency Thermal Control on cpu0

  % dmesg | grep memory
 real memory  = 2147483648 (2048 MB)
 avail memory = 2082701312 (1986 MB)

  % pciconf -lvv | grep -n2 Ethernet
 41-sis0@pci0:0:4:0: class=0x02 card=0x80a71043 chip=0x09001039
 rev=0x91 hdr=0x00
 42-vendor = 'Silicon Integrated Systems [SiS]'
 43:device = 'SiS900 PCI Fast Ethernet'
 44-class  = network
 45-subclass   = ethernet

 My /etc/sysctl.conf

 # $FreeBSD: release/9.2.0/etc/sysctl.conf 112200 2003-03-13 18:43:50Z mux
 $
 #
 #  This file is read when going to multi-user and its contents piped thru
 #  ``sysctl'' to adjust kernel values.  ``man 5 sysctl.conf'' for details.
 #

 # Uncomment this to prevent users from seeing information about processes
 that
 # are being run under another UID.
 #security.bsd.see_other_uids=0
 vfs.usermount=1
 hw.snd.default_unit=2
 kern.ipc.maxsockbuf=16777216
 kern.ipc.nmbclusters=32768
 kern.ipc.shm_allow_removed=1
 kern.ipc.somaxconn=8192
 kern.maxfiles=65536
 kern.maxfilesperproc=32768
 net.inet.tcp.blackhole=2
 net.inet.tcp.delayed_ack=0
 net.inet.tcp.path_mtu_discovery=0
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_inc=16384
 net.inet.tcp.recvbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.tcp.recvspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.rfc1323=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_auto=1
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_inc=8192
 net.inet.tcp.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.udp.blackhole=1
 net.inet.udp.maxdgram=57344
 net.inet.udp.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.recvspace=65536
 net.local.stream.sendspace=65536
 net.inet.tcp.sendbuf_max=16777216
 net.inet.ip.random_id=1

 http://serverfault.com/questions/64356/freebsd-performance-tuning-sysctls-loader-conf-kernel
 # Allow for up 2 GB of wired memory.
 vm.max_wired=524288

 I will appreciate any input about the subject.
 --CJPM

 [1] http://harryd71.blogspot.com.es/2008/10/tuning-freenas-zfs.html
 [2] https://wiki.freebsd.org/SystemTuning#SYSCTL_TUNING
 [3] https://wiki.freebsd.org/NetworkPerformanceTuning
 [4]
 http://serverfault.com/questions/64356/freebsd-performance-tuning-sysctls-loader-conf-kernel



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Re: FreeBSD, Centos and ZFS

2013-10-14 Thread aurfalien


On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Mark Felder wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:53, aurfalien wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to first say that by no means is this a hey, why is my Mac
 faster then my PC kind of email.
 
 I'm really hoping its an LSI driver issue.
 
 
 It may very well be an LSI firmware issue. What are the firmwares for
 those HBAs?

Hi,

So the firmware versions are as follows;

Intel RS25GB008 which is a rebadged LSI 9207-8e which uses the LSI 2308 
controller;

Intel firmware13.00.66.00-IT

LSI 9206-16e which uses the LSI 2308 controller as well;

LSI firmware 17.00.01.00-IT

Should I specifically set any of the card settings like hook int or bypass 
int hook... etc...?

- aurf
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Bruce Cran


On 10/14/2013 6:16 PM, CeDeROM wrote:

Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage?


Unlike other journaling filesystems, UFS+J only protects the metadata, 
not the data itself - i.e. I think it ensures you won't have to run a 
manual fsck, but just like plain old UFS files may be truncated as the 
journal is replayed.
For ext3, https://www.kernel.org/doc/Documentation/filesystems/ext3.txt 
explains the different modes, with 'ordered' being default:


Data Mode
-
There are 3 different data modes:

* writeback mode
In data=writeback mode, ext3 does not journal data at all.  This mode provides
a similar level of journaling as that of XFS, JFS, and ReiserFS in its default
mode - metadata journaling.  A crash+recovery can cause incorrect data to
appear in files which were written shortly before the crash.  This mode will
typically provide the best ext3 performance.

* ordered mode
In data=ordered mode, ext3 only officially journals metadata, but it logically
groups metadata and data blocks into a single unit called a transaction.  When
it's time to write the new metadata out to disk, the associated data blocks
are written first.  In general, this mode performs slightly slower than
writeback but significantly faster than journal mode.

* journal mode
data=journal mode provides full data and metadata journaling.  All new data is
written to the journal first, and then to its final location.
In the event of a crash, the journal can be replayed, bringing both data and
metadata into a consistent state.  This mode is the slowest except when data
needs to be read from and written to disk at the same time where it
outperforms all other modes.



--
Bruce Cran
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:34:36 +0200
David Demelier wrote:

 On 14.10.2013 14:39, RW wrote:

  If you are having problems with data integrity you might try
  gjournal or zfs instead.
 
 Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
 system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?

SU+J isn't a journalled filesytem, it's a filesystem with soft-updates
that journals information about free space so it can be recovered
without having to go through the whole filesystem.




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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports

 
  Hi,
 
  I'm following the recipe at the end of man portmaster for deleting and
  reinstalling all my ports, which I have done many times in the
  past. This time, I am getting errors on the portmaster -Faf step
  involving deleted ports, and I'm not sure how to deal with this
  easily.
 
 What errors, exactly?

Well, for example:

portmaster -Faf
it starts to fetch a bunch of files
it finds a port which has been deleted, such as
linux-base-fc4
and it says, linux-base-fc4 has been deleted.
terminating
terminating
terminating
etc.

 
  So, I am seeking expert advice here. Is there a way to automate this
  and keep myself out of trouble, or do I need to do a 'port-by-port'
  upgrade of each port?
 
 It should just work.  Have you converted to pkgng?
 

I dream of the day that the ports system will just work. I don't use
binary packages, are you saying that pkgng will deal with this issue
automatically?

Thanks,
Scott

 
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk wrote:
 On 10/14/2013 6:16 PM, CeDeROM wrote:
 Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage?

 Unlike other journaling filesystems, UFS+J only protects the metadata, not
 the data itself - i.e. I think it ensures you won't have to run a manual
 fsck, but just like plain old UFS files may be truncated as the journal is
 replayed.

Thank you for explaining :-) So it looks that it would be sensible to
force filesystem check every n-th mount..? Or to do a filesystem check
after crash..? Are there any flags like that to mark filesystem
unclean and to force fsck after n-th mount? That would assume
disabling journal and soft updates journaling I guess..?

What would be the best option for best data integrity in case of
crash? That would be helpful for development systems I guess :-)

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Bruce Cran


On 10/14/2013 7:33 PM, CeDeROM wrote:

Thank you for explaining :-) So it looks that it would be sensible to
force filesystem check every n-th mount..? Or to do a filesystem check
after crash..? Are there any flags like that to mark filesystem
unclean and to force fsck after n-th mount? That would assume
disabling journal and soft updates journaling I guess..?

What would be the best option for best data integrity in case of
crash? That would be helpful for development systems I guess :-)


As I understand it UFS+J gives the same reliability as UFS with a normal 
fsck after a crash, so on a development system the only ways to improve 
the situation would be to mount with the 'sync' option, disable write 
caching on the disk or to switch to a different filesystem like ZFS.


--
Bruce Cran
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:33 PM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:

 Thank you for explaining :-) So it looks that it would be sensible to
 force filesystem check every n-th mount..?


Please explain the logic in which this helps anything.


 Or to do a filesystem check
 after crash..?


Already standard behavior as implicitly seen in this thread.


 Are there any flags like that to mark filesystem
 unclean and to force fsck after n-th mount?


No and any fs that requires such a system is broken by design.


 That would assume
 disabling journal and soft updates journaling I guess..?

 What would be the best option for best data integrity in case of
 crash?


mount -o sync or use ZFS. Both require hardware that correctly report
success to fsync.

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:43 PM, Adam Vande More amvandem...@gmail.comwrote:



 mount -o sync


should be

mount sync

-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Charles Swiger

On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:33 AM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 7:54 PM, Bruce Cran br...@cran.org.uk wrote:
 On 10/14/2013 6:16 PM, CeDeROM wrote:
 Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage?
 
 Unlike other journaling filesystems, UFS+J only protects the metadata, not
 the data itself - i.e. I think it ensures you won't have to run a manual
 fsck, but just like plain old UFS files may be truncated as the journal is
 replayed.
 
 Thank you for explaining :-) So it looks that it would be sensible to
 force filesystem check every n-th mount..?

You shouldn't ever need to recheck the filesystem if it was shutdown cleanly.

However, it doesn't hurt to fire off an fsck once a year or so just to look for
any unexpected issues.

 Or to do a filesystem check after crash..?

Yes.  Without journalling, you'd normally perform the full timeconsuming fsck
in the foreground.  With journalling, it should be able to do a journal replay 
to restore the filesystem to an OK state, but sometimes that doesn't restore
consistency, in which case it usually fires off a background fsck rather than
the foreground fsck.

 Are there any flags like that to mark filesystem
 unclean and to force fsck after n-th mount? That would assume
 disabling journal and soft updates journaling I guess..?

/etc/rc.conf should support something like the following to do what you ask:

fsck_y_enable=YES
background_fsck=NO
force_fsck=YES

 What would be the best option for best data integrity in case of
 crash? That would be helpful for development systems I guess :-)

Well, you can use mount -o sync and disable write caching via hw.ata.wc=0 or
similar depending on what kind of drives you use.

This will cause a massive loss of write performance, but will greatly improve
reliability-- i.e. fsync() and such are not as likely to lie about whether bits
have made it to disk, even in the face of hardware which lies about 
ATA_FLUSHCACHE
(or SCSI SYNCHRONIZE CACHE, etc).

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

Thank you all for good hints! This will come handy! :-)

-- 
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Daniel Feenberg




On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Bruce Cran wrote:


On 10/14/2013 6:16 PM, CeDeROM wrote:

Isn't there Journal to prevent and reverse such damage?


Unlike other journaling filesystems, UFS+J only protects the metadata, not 
the data itself - i.e. I think it ensures you won't have to run a manual 
fsck, but just like plain old UFS files may be truncated as the journal is 
replayed.


This discussion skirts the critical issue - are files that are not open 
for writing endangered? No description of the uses of journaling can be 
considered informative if it doesn't address that explicitly. As a naive 
user I have always assumed that once closed, a file was invulnerable to 
improper shutdowns, but this discussion shakes that belief.


I expect the answer may be different for SSD and spinning disks.

dan feenberg
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:48:18 -0700
Charles Swiger wrote:



 Yes.  Without journalling, you'd normally perform the full
 timeconsuming fsck in the foreground.

Journalling removes the need for the background fsck which only recovers
lost space. 

  With journalling, it should be
 able to do a journal replay to restore the filesystem to an OK state,

My understanding is that the journal does nothing to restore the
filesystem other than keep track of orphaned memory. In all other
respect it's the job of soft-updates to keep the filesystem in an OK
state. When it doesn't you need a foreground check.

 but sometimes that doesn't restore consistency, in which case it
 usually fires off a background fsck rather than the foreground fsck.

I think if the journal fails, you would really need to run at least a
foreground preen, maybe a full fsck. 
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Michael Powell

Charles Swiger wrote:

[snip]
 
 Yes.  Without journalling, you'd normally perform the full timeconsuming
 fsck
 in the foreground.  With journalling, it should be able to do a journal
 replay to restore the filesystem to an OK state, but sometimes that
 doesn't restore consistency, in which case it usually fires off a
 background fsck rather than the foreground fsck.

In my case the journal replay failed, with an error to that effect. All 
partitions other than / failed to mount and after hitting enter at the 
.../bin/sh prompt performed manual fsck on all of them, which found and 
fixed some stuff. Then shutdown -r and everything came up fine (clean) 
afterwards. Net result was no data loss for me.

[snip]

-Mike


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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:48:18 -0700
Charles Swiger wrote:

 fsck_y_enable=YES

One of the most annoying things about SU+J is that fsck asks if you
want to use the journal. So fsck -y wont do a proper check unless the
journal replay fails. 
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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports


On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:


I'm following the recipe at the end of man portmaster for deleting and
reinstalling all my ports, which I have done many times in the
past. This time, I am getting errors on the portmaster -Faf step
involving deleted ports, and I'm not sure how to deal with this
easily.


What errors, exactly?


Well, for example:

portmaster -Faf
it starts to fetch a bunch of files
it finds a port which has been deleted, such as
linux-base-fc4
and it says, linux-base-fc4 has been deleted.
terminating
terminating
terminating
etc.


That's correct.  linux_base-fc4 is long gone (years), replaced by 
linux_base-f10.  portmaster sees no way to upgrade that port, so 
evidently it quits.


If you have ports that far out of date, the upgrade process is going to 
be long.  Ports where the system does not know the replacement will have 
to be handled manually.



So, I am seeking expert advice here. Is there a way to automate this
and keep myself out of trouble, or do I need to do a 'port-by-port'
upgrade of each port?


It should just work.  Have you converted to pkgng?



I dream of the day that the ports system will just work. I don't use
binary packages, are you saying that pkgng will deal with this issue
automatically?


No, the concern was that you might have already converted to pkgng but 
still used the old package tools.

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On 14.10.2013 20:08, RW wrote:
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 18:34:36 +0200
 David Demelier wrote:
 
 On 14.10.2013 14:39, RW wrote:
 
 If you are having problems with data integrity you might try
 gjournal or zfs instead.

 Why? SU+J is enabled by default. Isn't the purpose of a journaled file
 system to ensure that any bad shutdown will protect data?
 
 SU+J isn't a journalled filesytem, it's a filesystem with soft-updates
 that journals information about free space so it can be recovered
 without having to go through the whole filesystem.
 

Okay, but why the fsck didn't run by itself to detect that the journal
didn't replayed correctly (if I understanding well) to correct the issues?

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On 14.10.2013 18:47, Adam Vande More wrote:
 There is no *warranty* as explicitly stated in
 http://www.freebsd.org/copyright/freebsd-license.html
 

Aha, please don't play on words ;-). I think you understood I was
speaking about the filesystem state
not a lawyer issue.
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

On 14.10.2013 20:43, Adam Vande More wrote:
 On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 1:33 PM, CeDeROM cede...@tlen.pl
 mailto:cede...@tlen.pl wrote:
 
 Thank you for explaining :-) So it looks that it would be sensible to
 force filesystem check every n-th mount..? 
 
 
 Please explain the logic in which this helps anything.
  
 
 Or to do a filesystem check
 after crash..?
 
 
 Already standard behavior as implicitly seen in this thread.
  
 
 Are there any flags like that to mark filesystem
 unclean and to force fsck after n-th mount? 
 
 
 No and any fs that requires such a system is broken by design.
  
 
 That would assume
 disabling journal and soft updates journaling I guess..?
 
 What would be the best option for best data integrity in case of
 crash?
 
 
 mount -o sync or use ZFS. Both require hardware that correctly report
 success to fsync.

I personnally love ZFS and use it massively on my server, but for a
desktop I think this is a real overkill. Also I don't have so much RAM
to waste for that. I think UFS is enough, however as a modern operating
system I don't expect any data corruption by default using SU+J.

The filesystem domain is not a thing I really know deeply, so thanks for
all you explanation.

PS: the power failure is not the only way that does not shutdown cleanly
the system. There are kernel panics, crash and such of course. Those
which appears sometimes too.

Regards,

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Charles Swiger

Hi--

On Oct 14, 2013, at 11:51 AM, Daniel Feenberg feenb...@nber.org wrote:
 This discussion skirts the critical issue - are files that are not open for 
 writing endangered? No description of the uses of journaling can be 
 considered informative if it doesn't address that explicitly. As a naive user 
 I have always assumed that once closed, a file was invulnerable to improper 
 shutdowns, but this discussion shakes that belief.

Well, it's good to be a little paranoid if the data matters.  :-)

First, unless you call fsync() before close() and your OS and/or drive hardware 
isn't being deceptive when fsync() returns about whether the bits have made it 
to permanent storage, then you might be surprised at just how long the 
unwritten buffers containing the last updates to the file data take to get 
properly flushed to disk.

 I expect the answer may be different for SSD and spinning disks.

Second, this is an excellent point: however, it also applies to anything where 
the actual hardware block size does not match the device blocksize that the 
filesystem thinks it has-- so new 4K sector rotational disks also have some 
risk.

The basic issue with SSDs is that you (or the drive firmware, more precisely) 
need to read in an entire hardware sector, update the portion with changes in 
cache memory, do a bulk-erase of that block, and then scribble that back out.  
Good drive firmware actually writes out to a different block than the original 
for wear-leveling purposes and only updates the flash translation layer once 
the new version of that block is written.  That makes the drive mostly immune 
to major data integrity issues even if powered off in the middle of the process.

Less-than-good firmware, aka buggy firmware, can lead from power-failure to 
data loss of files which were not being modified at the time.  And may you 
possess recent working backups if the FTL somehow ever gets confused!

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-14 Thread Charles Swiger

On Oct 14, 2013, at 12:41 PM, RW rwmailli...@googlemail.com wrote:
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013 11:48:18 -0700 Charles Swiger wrote:
 Yes.  Without journalling, you'd normally perform the full
 timeconsuming fsck in the foreground.
 
 Journalling removes the need for the background fsck which only recovers
 lost space. 

That and inode link changes (ie, adding or removing files from a directory).

 With journalling, it should be able to do a journal replay to restore
 the filesystem to an OK state,
 
 My understanding is that the journal does nothing to restore the
 filesystem other than keep track of orphaned memory. In all other
 respect it's the job of soft-updates to keep the filesystem in an OK
 state.

Yes, SU is supposed to reorder filesystem operations to provide some level
of ACID transaction semantics-- and the journal helps that by avoiding
the need for bgfsck.

 When it doesn't you need a foreground check.
 
 but sometimes that doesn't restore consistency, in which case it
 usually fires off a background fsck rather than the foreground fsck.
 
 I think if the journal fails, you would really need to run at least a
 foreground preen, maybe a full fsck. 

Yes.

Regards,
-- 
-Chuck

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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

2013-10-14 Thread Da Rock


On 10/13/13 17:38, Thomas Mueller wrote:

On the question of playing Adobe Flash in FreeBSD, could one use the MS-Windows 
32-bit version with (i386-)Wine?

I plan to try that.
Apparently that won't solve much. The primary issue now with watching 
flash movies is the drm - on linux it somehow uses hal and dbus, on 
windows it uses the registry.

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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports


On Mon, 14 oct 2013, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote:
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:
 
 
  What errors, exactly?
 
  Well, for example:
 
  portmaster -Faf
  it starts to fetch a bunch of files
  it finds a port which has been deleted, such as
  linux-base-fc4
  and it says, linux-base-fc4 has been deleted.
  terminating
  terminating
  terminating
  etc.
 
 That's correct.  linux_base-fc4 is long gone (years), replaced by 
 linux_base-f10.  portmaster sees no way to upgrade that port, so 
 evidently it quits.

I understand why portmaster quits that port. It does seem like a bit
of over-kill to quit updating ALL ports because one is long
gone. Seems like it could do the others.

 If you have ports that far out of date, the upgrade process is going to 
 be long.  Ports where the system does not know the replacement will have 
 to be handled manually.

Actually, the last time I updated my ports was when I installed 9.0,
and I used the portmaster 'nuke all ports' method I was trying to
day. Since then, several dozen ports of been 'deleted' or 'renamed',
not just the linux_base-fc4. Seems in the case of ports which have
been renamed or replaced, this could in fact be simply automated in
most cases.

Best,
Scott
-- 
s...@ssr.com
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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 6:35 PM, Scott Ballantyne s...@ssr.com wrote:


 I understand why portmaster quits that port.


Because it has no choice.


 It does seem like a bit
 of over-kill to quit updating ALL ports because one is long
 gone. Seems like it could do the others.


So it should continue on and potentially build 1000's of ports with broken
linking and dependencies?  Portupgrade will do this if you tell it.  Try it
out and see what fun you can create.



-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: FreeBSD, Centos and ZFS

2013-10-14 Thread aurfalien


On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Mark Felder wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:53, aurfalien wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to first say that by no means is this a hey, why is my Mac
 faster then my PC kind of email.
 
 I'm really hoping its an LSI driver issue.
 
 
 It may very well be an LSI firmware issue. What are the firmwares for
 those HBAs?

Upon doing this;

sysctl -a | grep mps

I get this;

dev.mps.0.driver_version: 14.00.00.01-fbsd

LSIs site mentions the latest drives at being 17.00.00.00

I'll go ahead and install the latest to see what happens.

Whats the best way to do this, I assume build it and load via loader.conf?

- aurf
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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports


On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:



On Mon, 14 oct 2013, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote:

On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:



What errors, exactly?


Well, for example:

portmaster -Faf
it starts to fetch a bunch of files
it finds a port which has been deleted, such as
linux-base-fc4
and it says, linux-base-fc4 has been deleted.
terminating
terminating
terminating
etc.


That's correct.  linux_base-fc4 is long gone (years), replaced by
linux_base-f10.  portmaster sees no way to upgrade that port, so
evidently it quits.


I understand why portmaster quits that port. It does seem like a bit
of over-kill to quit updating ALL ports because one is long
gone. Seems like it could do the others.


Some of them.  It could not update any ports that depend on missing 
ports, which conflicts with the -a meaning all.



If you have ports that far out of date, the upgrade process is going to
be long.  Ports where the system does not know the replacement will have
to be handled manually.


Actually, the last time I updated my ports was when I installed 9.0,
and I used the portmaster 'nuke all ports' method I was trying to
day. Since then, several dozen ports of been 'deleted' or 'renamed',
not just the linux_base-fc4. Seems in the case of ports which have
been renamed or replaced, this could in fact be simply automated in
most cases.


I think it does handle renamed ports.  Whether the ones it does not 
handle are due to missing functionality or because they are difficult or 
impossible to handle, don't know.

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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports


Adam Vande More wrote:
 
  It does seem like a bit
  of over-kill to quit updating ALL ports because one is long
  gone. Seems like it could do the others.
 
 
 So it should continue on and potentially build 1000's of ports with broken
 linking and dependencies?  Portupgrade will do this if you tell it.  Try it
 out and see what fun you can create.
 

Not a single program on my system depended on that program being
rebuilt. Portmaster should certainly refuse to rebuild anything that
did, of course.



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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports

On Mon 14 Oct 2013 Warren Block wrote:

 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:
 
 
  On Mon, 14 oct 2013, Warren Block wbl...@wonkity.com wrote:
  On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:
 
 
  Actually, the last time I updated my ports was when I installed 9.0,
  and I used the portmaster 'nuke all ports' method I was trying to
  day. Since then, several dozen ports of been 'deleted' or 'renamed',
  not just the linux_base-fc4. Seems in the case of ports which have
  been renamed or replaced, this could in fact be simply automated in
  most cases.
 
 I think it does handle renamed ports.  Whether the ones it does not 
 handle are due to missing functionality or because they are difficult or 
 impossible to handle, don't know.

Such was not my experience, Warren. And actually, a google search
while I was trying to solve this turned up many reports of the same
problem over the past years. 

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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports

On Mon, Oct 14, 2013 at 9:48 PM, Scott Ballantyne s...@ssr.com wrote:


 Adam Vande More wrote:
 
   It does seem like a bit
   of over-kill to quit updating ALL ports because one is long
   gone. Seems like it could do the others.
  
 
  So it should continue on and potentially build 1000's of ports with
 broken
  linking and dependencies?  Portupgrade will do this if you tell it.  Try
 it
  out and see what fun you can create.
 

 Not a single program on my system depended on that program being
 rebuilt.


And what about libs it may have left behind and other ports picking up
faulty info?  Then you build unsupported and faultly packages and complain
to the list when something doesn't work.  Just follow /usr/ports/UPDATING
as advised instead of your shortcuts.


 Portmaster should certainly refuse to rebuild anything that
 did, of course.


Exactly what it did.



-- 
Adam Vande More
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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

2013-10-13 Thread Thomas Mueller

On the question of playing Adobe Flash in FreeBSD, could one use the MS-Windows 
32-bit version with (i386-)Wine?

I plan to try that.

Tom

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-13 Thread CeDeROM

On 13 Oct 2013 11:30, David Demelier demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello there,
 I'm writing because after a power failure I was unable to log in on my
 FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE. The SU+J journal were executed correctly but some
 files disappeared, including /etc/pwd.db. Thus I was unable to log in.
 I've been able to regenerate the password database with a live cd but
 I'm afraid that more files had disappeared somewhere else...
 I think this is a serious issue, the journal should not truncate files,
 so something should have gone wrong somewhere..
 Any ideas? Should I open a PR

I had similar issues somewhere around 9.0 - although journal check was fine
running fsck revealed filesystem inconsistency. I have reported this on the
list, but it seemed unnoticed..? For me this is serious issue as well, if
you make PR I will give +1 :-)

--
CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-13 Thread David Demelier

On 13.10.2013 12:16, CeDeROM wrote:
 On 13 Oct 2013 11:30, David Demelier demelier.da...@gmail.com
 mailto:demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hello there,
 I'm writing because after a power failure I was unable to log in on my
 FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE. The SU+J journal were executed correctly but some
 files disappeared, including /etc/pwd.db. Thus I was unable to log in.
 I've been able to regenerate the password database with a live cd but
 I'm afraid that more files had disappeared somewhere else...
 I think this is a serious issue, the journal should not truncate files,
 so something should have gone wrong somewhere..
 Any ideas? Should I open a PR
 
 I had similar issues somewhere around 9.0 - although journal check was
 fine running fsck revealed filesystem inconsistency. I have reported
 this on the list, but it seemed unnoticed..? For me this is serious
 issue as well, if you make PR I will give +1 :-)
 
 --
 CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info
 

Yes, I've also ran fsck in single user mode after and lot of incorrect
things were corrected, I wait a bit for answers (if any) before sending
a PR.

Cheers,
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Re: Is it possible to suspend to disk with geli+Root on ZFS installation

2013-10-13 Thread Ian Smith

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:17:20 +1000, yudi v wrote:
On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Ian Smith smi...@nimnet.asn.au wrote:
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 486, Issue 7, Message: 5
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:25:33 +0200 Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 05:37:55PM +1000, yudi v wrote:
Hi all,

Is it possible to suspend to disk (hibernate) when using geli for
full disk
encryption.
[..]
I must reiterate, FreeBSD does not support Suspend to Disk (state S4 aka
'hibernate') on ANY platform, except - perhaps - on machines supporting
S4 in BIOS (hw.acpi.s4bios=1) which are very rarely spotted in the wild.

And even suspend to RAM doesn't work on every machine [2].

[2]: https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Suspend_to_disk

That page IS about Suspend to Disk - but only as a wishlist idea, as it
has been for many years. Someone did take it on as a Google SoC project
years ago, but nothing ever came of it to my knowledge.
[..]

Hi Yudi,

you haven't said what sort of machine (desktop/server/laptop) or how
long a mains power fail runtime you're after, so it's impossible to
guess what sort of size UPS you might need ..

I am looking at a APC Power-Saving Back-UPS ES 8 Outlet 700VA 230V AS
3112http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE700G-AZtotal_watts=200tab=features,

I don't know about that model; it makes no mention of shutdown alert /
control at all, only 'some models' have a USB connector, and I couldn't
find the manual for it there. Certainly not all 'desktop' UPSes support
what's needed to communicate and shutdown cleanly, so check carefully
both the specs and that software (apcupsd or nut) supports the model.

I gather from your timestamp (and that model) that you may be in
Australia, in which case you could browse from here for the APCs:

http://www.apc.com/products/category.cfm?id=13ISOCountryCode=au

[However that page currently throws errors on the various model links of
'Element CACHE.APCTOSECOUNTRYMAPPINGS is undefined in APPLICATION.' :( ]

anyone know if apcupsd daemon works fine under FreeBSD or should I be
looking at Network UPS Tools (NUT).

I'm sure there are people here who can advise. I've only setup Eaton
and PowerWare UPSes, and those on a Debian linux server, using NUT.

cheers, Ian
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Re: APC BE750G Power Saving Battery Back-UPS

2013-10-13 Thread Warren Block


On Sun, 13 Oct 2013, Carmel wrote:


I have the opportunity to replace an aging UPS with a new APC BE750G
Power Saving Battery Back-UPS one. My question is if anyone here has
ever used this device under FreeBSD. APC does not have, or at least I
couldn't find any, software for a FreeBSD system. Without the software,
the unit is basically useless.

I Googled and found an old message regarding FreeBSD and a similar UPS
http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-questions/2004-October/062543.html
dated 10/2004. Are those issues still relevant? According to
http://www.apcupsd.com/manual/#freebsd I need to insure that this is
a SmartUPS The unit I am looking at does not qualify.

I might add that my present unit is connected to a Windows machine. I
intend to replace that one and hook up both PCs to it.


sysutils/apcupsd works with a lot of APC units.  Offhand, I know it 
works with a several-year-old Back-UPS XS unit (not mine), and with all 
my older Smart-UPS units.  Mac people say that apcupsd works with the 
BE750G: http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20100314155518972


The Smart-UPS models are preferred for better quality.  In some of the 
newer units, APC has gone to a proprietary communications protocol. 
The problem units are shown on the apcupsd.com site.

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Re: Authorisation Errors on 9.2

2013-10-13 Thread Frank Leonhardt


On 13/10/2013 18:08, Beeblebrox wrote:

I have two strange errors but I am not sure whether they are related.

ERROR-1: Slim allows login without checking for password. /var/log/auth.log
shows:
Oct 13 11:44:57: slim: gkr-pam: no password is available for user
Oct 13 11:44:57: gnome-keyring-daemon[1225]: couldn't allocate secure memory
to keep passwords and or keys from being written to the disk

ERROR-2: sshd disconnects (drops) client connections immediately after
login. This happens when trying from host its self or some other client.
Testing from host (162.168.1.10 is host's IP)
$ ssh root@192.168.1.10
Password for root@server.freebsd:
Last login: Sun Oct 13 13:02:09 2013
Welcome to myNetwork  (the motd message)
csh: No such file or directory
Connection to 192.168.1.10 closed.

/var/log/auth.log for ssh shows:
Oct 13 19:41:37: Server listening on 0.0.0.0 port 22.
Oct 13 19:42:37: Accepted keyboard-interactive/pam for root from
192.168.1.10 port 33248 ssh2
Oct 13 19:42:37: Received disconnect from 192.168.1.10: 11: disconnected by
user

Thanks for any advice on how to resolve these two issues.



The gnome keyring demon does that. I believe it's only warning and I've 
never dug in to the source to find out more but I think it's something 
it can only do on Linux. I'm sure someone will be along in a minute with 
something to say about that.


As to the second problem - csh: No such file or directory. At the risk 
of pointing out the trivial, is root's home directory valid? Why not 
post /etc/passwd and we'll check :-)


Could it be a dud /root/.tcshrc? Or /etc/login.conf?

I assume you've configured sshd to allow direct root logins. If you 
hadn't I think you get a different rejection message (but who knows with 
9.2?)


Regards, Frank.

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Re: SU+J Lost files after a power failure

2013-10-13 Thread Thomas Mueller

 On 13.10.2013 12:16, CeDeROM wrote:
  On 13 Oct 2013 11:30, David Demelier demelier.da...@gmail.com
  mailto:demelier.da...@gmail.com wrote:
  Hello there,
  I'm writing because after a power failure I was unable to log in on my
  FreeBSD 9.2-RELEASE. The SU+J journal were executed correctly but some
  files disappeared, including /etc/pwd.db. Thus I was unable to log in.
  I've been able to regenerate the password database with a live cd but
  I'm afraid that more files had disappeared somewhere else...
  I think this is a serious issue, the journal should not truncate files,
  so something should have gone wrong somewhere..
  Any ideas? Should I open a PR

  I had similar issues somewhere around 9.0 - although journal check was
  fine running fsck revealed filesystem inconsistency. I have reported
  this on the list, but it seemed unnoticed..? For me this is serious
  issue as well, if you make PR I will give +1 :-)

  CeDeROM, SQ7MHZ, http://www.tomek.cedro.info

 Yes, I've also ran fsck in single user mode after and lot of incorrect
 things were corrected, I wait a bit for answers (if any) before sending
 a PR.

Running fsck in single-user mode may not be sufficient.

You may need to run fsck_ffs from a USB-stick installation or live CD.

I remember reviving a FreeBSD partition that way, normal root partition not 
mounted.

I once revived a FreeBSD partition with fsck_ffs from a USB-stick installation 
of NetBSD 5.1_STABLE i386 after FreeBSD couldn't do it.

It helps to have a UPS to protect against short power failures and allow 
graceful shutdown on longer power outages.


Tom

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Re: Adoble Flash troubles on 9.2-RELEASE

2013-10-13 Thread Da Rock


On 10/12/13 20:37, Ralf Mardorf wrote:

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 11:52 +0200, David Demelier wrote:

I don't like much chrome but I'll give a try to see.

+1 It's not a browser I like.

Since I'm using my computer for audio production my FreeBSD isn't
maintained, I need to use Linux, so I don't know if Chrome is available
for FreeBSD. When I google (resp. startpage.com search) for FreeBSD and
Chrome, it seems to be that the hits aren't about Chrome, but Chromium
instead.

Chromium doesn't include Adobe Flash,
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome .

Sorry for the noise.

At least we could use Adobe Flash by Chrome with FreeBSD in a virtual
machine running a Linux instead of a Windows guest. Or is Chrome
available for FreeBSD too?

Perhaps you should post the links that don't work with the latest Linux
version of Adobe Flash, so others could test if the issue is really
caused by Flash Player and not by something else.

To add more confusion to this fray, although it may not help with gray 
screen issue, the only reason chromium works (yes, just install the 
nspluginwrapper as per the handbook) is that it is better suited to the 
new pepper style Adobe is going with now.


FWIW, I did put in a port to fix drm issues on any site which was 
stopping videos playing (again, not your specific issue, but what 
appears to be in discussion here) and which allows flash to work using 
any browser - uses linux dbus libraries (weird). Not sure of the status 
though.


Cheers
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Re: Reinstall without reformat

2013-10-13 Thread Polytropon

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:24:30 -0400, Kenta Suzumoto wrote:
 Hi all. Is it possible to install FreeBSD without formatting the disk?

Yes. The installer supports not formatting existing partitions.
The file system characteristica will be kept, possible content
will overwritten. Note that superfluous content will also be
kept, except of course you previously remove everything.



 I have one directory of data that I want to keep.

You should still make a backup, because I want to keep does
imply exactly that in regards of an OS installation. :-)



 I can boot from the
 installer and rm every directory except that (/bin /boot etc), but how
 could I install the OS from there?

You simply re-enter the installer, assign the (existing, but now
empty) partitions to the desired mountpoint, make sure _not_ to
newfs them, and then commit to the installation as usual.

An alternative would be, after preparing the partitions, mount
them as desired and extract the installation datasets from the
installation media manually (via shell commands). Still you might
miss other steps the installer performs.



 I've done ZFS on root installs with
 the shell and mounting the zpool to /mnt, would that work here too?

Probably yes (never tried that myself).



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Advice sought on Portmaster -Faf and deleted ports

2013-10-13 Thread Warren Block


On Sun, 13 Oct 2013, Scott Ballantyne wrote:


Hi,

I'm following the recipe at the end of man portmaster for deleting and
reinstalling all my ports, which I have done many times in the
past. This time, I am getting errors on the portmaster -Faf step
involving deleted ports, and I'm not sure how to deal with this
easily.


What errors, exactly?


So, I am seeking expert advice here. Is there a way to automate this
and keep myself out of trouble, or do I need to do a 'port-by-port'
upgrade of each port?


It should just work.  Have you converted to pkgng?
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Re: Reinstall without reformat

2013-10-13 Thread Polytropon

On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 23:01:02 -0600 (MDT), Warren Block wrote:
 On Mon, 14 Oct 2013, Polytropon wrote:
 
  On Sun, 13 Oct 2013 13:24:30 -0400, Kenta Suzumoto wrote:
  Hi all. Is it possible to install FreeBSD without formatting the disk?
 
  Yes. The installer supports not formatting existing partitions.
  The file system characteristica will be kept, possible content
  will overwritten. Note that superfluous content will also be
  kept, except of course you previously remove everything.
 
 sysinstall supported that, but AFAIK bsdinstall does not.

Oh, seems you're right. I've checked The FreeBSD Handbook for
the relevant instructions for using bsdinstall at

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/bsdinstall-partitioning.html

and

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/bsdinstall-final-warning.html

and I didn't find an option to _not_ initialize existing partitions,
even though it seems you can assign existing partitions without any
problem. The remaining question: Will they be initialized again?

I know that sysinstall had the option newfs toggle so you could
skip the newfs step after you had assigned the existing partitions
to the desired mountpoints.

It can be seen at

http://www.freebsd.org/doc/handbook/install-steps.html

in Fig. 3.19 and 3.24.

I have to admit that I didn't assume such a significant loss of
functionality (that sysinstall provided!) in the new installer... :-(

That's why maybe manually extracting the distribution files from
the installation media, using the CLI tools, would probably the
easiest thing: Manually mount existing partitions as desired,
then extract the installation datasets, and apply any further
modifications as needed.



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Adoble Flash troubles on 9.2-RELEASE

If you really need to visit sites that need Adobe Flash, you perhaps
should use the google-chrome browser. For some websites with flash
content, we don't need flash anymore, just modern HTML5 capable web
browsers. For *nix there never will be a current version for flashplayer
again.

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Re: Adoble Flash troubles on 9.2-RELEASE

2013-10-12 Thread David Demelier

On 12.10.2013 11:02, Ralf Mardorf wrote:
 If you really need to visit sites that need Adobe Flash, you perhaps
 should use the google-chrome browser. For some websites with flash
 content, we don't need flash anymore, just modern HTML5 capable web
 browsers. For *nix there never will be a current version for flashplayer
 again.
 

Yes I know that adobe flash player for *nix is gone but I'm guessing why
it worked well so much before..

I don't like much chrome but I'll give a try to see.

Thanks for the hint!

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Re: Adoble Flash troubles on 9.2-RELEASE

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 11:52 +0200, David Demelier wrote:
 I don't like much chrome but I'll give a try to see.

+1 It's not a browser I like.

Since I'm using my computer for audio production my FreeBSD isn't
maintained, I need to use Linux, so I don't know if Chrome is available
for FreeBSD. When I google (resp. startpage.com search) for FreeBSD and
Chrome, it seems to be that the hits aren't about Chrome, but Chromium
instead.

Chromium doesn't include Adobe Flash,
https://code.google.com/p/chromium/wiki/ChromiumBrowserVsGoogleChrome .

Sorry for the noise.

At least we could use Adobe Flash by Chrome with FreeBSD in a virtual
machine running a Linux instead of a Windows guest. Or is Chrome
available for FreeBSD too?

Perhaps you should post the links that don't work with the latest Linux
version of Adobe Flash, so others could test if the issue is really
caused by Flash Player and not by something else.

Regards,
Ralf

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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

2013-10-12 Thread Walter Hurry

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 05:31:56 +0200, Polytropon wrote:

 On Fri, 11 Oct 2013 17:54:24 -0400, Glenn Sieb wrote:
 On 10/11/13 5:38 PM, Walter Hurry wrote:
  FreeBSD 9.1
  
  I want ONE shared lib; i.e. rsvg.so, which is provided by
  x11-toolkits/py-gnome-desktop.
  
  Unfortunately, it seems that going the normal route I shall have to
  install 80! ports to get it. Is there an easier way?
 
 Actually I think you want x11-toolkits/gtk20..? Would pkg_add work for
 you?
 
 Maybe graphics/librsvg2 is better suited (even though it's version 2 of
 the library). The problem initially mentions will remain: lots of
 installation dependencies. Sadly, that seems to be normal today as
 modern software tends to rely on layers of libraries of abstraction of
 tools of utilities of stuff of layers of layers of other abstractions.
 :-)
 
 As you see: gnome-desktop and gtk20. That should bring your warning
 lights up: lots of dependencies ahead!
 
 When you try to install a simple desktop environment, you'll be
 confronted with hundreds of packages to be installed, some of them
 you've probably never had thought of in regards of what you need to
 install a desktop, such as two or more different databases, LaTeX,
 translators, and other surprising stuff. This will probably apply to
 most complex components and parts of desktop environments or X11
 toolkits (as mentioned above).
 
 As I mentioned, the librsvg2 port will install lib/librsvg-2.so.
 It might require you to re-install your target application to link
 against that library.
 
 A library libsvg.so (without version number) doesn't seem to be in the
 ports tree by that name.
 
 My lazy man's method of searching what port might contain the library:
 Midnight Commander, go to /usr/ports, Meta-?, seach in pkg-plist,
 search for text librsvg and examine the results with PF3. This method
 relies on approaches that might be wrong... :-)
 
 Note that my (locally installed) ports tree is not up to date anymore so
 you should consider performing a search on a recent tree to make sure I
 didn't miss anything.

Thanks Polytropon, but the one I needed was this:

x11-toolkits/py-gnome-desktop/pkg-plist:%%PYTHON_SITELIBDIR%%/gtk-2.0/
rsvg.so

I have given in, let it install all 80 ports, saved the one shlib I need 
and deleted the ports again. All is now well.

By the way, I needed it for the 'screenlets' Python applications; in 
particular ClockScreenlet.py.

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Re: FreeBSD, Centos and ZFS

2013-10-12 Thread Mark Felder

On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:53, aurfalien wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to first say that by no means is this a hey, why is my Mac
 faster then my PC kind of email.
 
 I'm really hoping its an LSI driver issue.
 

It may very well be an LSI firmware issue. What are the firmwares for
those HBAs?
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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

2013-10-12 Thread gct7photography

I don't know what others think, but what *I* really want is that the
free software versions of Flash (gnash and klash, etc) work at least as
well as versions of Adobe Flash do, or if versions of Adobe Flash are
to be used, that it will be free and covered by the GPL.

Its unlikely to happen unless we start a campaign among the Free
Software users of the world to make Flash free software.

Yes, I know HTML 5 is just around the corner, but we've seen a
concerted effort already (in the European Parliament at least) to
introduce DRM into HTML 5 and though it may make using Flash marginally
easier, it would be a retrograde step if DRM is to be introduced.

So what are we left with?  Free software to replicate what Flash
does (at least) that does not have the taint of proprietary software?
Is that not an achievable goal?

I can't code but would be willing to join a project with those
achievable goals, but it hasn't appeared yet, so I don't seriously
expect it will happen any time soon.

++ Graham Todd


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Re: FreeBSD, Centos and ZFS

2013-10-12 Thread aurfalien


On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Mark Felder wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:53, aurfalien wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to first say that by no means is this a hey, why is my Mac
 faster then my PC kind of email.
 
 I'm really hoping its an LSI driver issue.
 
 
 It may very well be an LSI firmware issue. What are the firmwares for
 those HBAs?

Well, the 2 LSI 9207s are rebadge Intel being Intel RS25GB008 ( 
http://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/servers/raid/raid-controller-rs25gb008.html
 ) with the latest Intel firmware.

The lone 9206-16e has the latest LSI firmware.

Shall I downgrade to a particular version?

I would love to resolve this performance oddity.

Thanks for getting back to me, I know its a weird one with an annoying subject 
as its apples and oranges.

I would be happy to get you exact info of anything I have, so feel free.

- aurf
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Re: FreeBSD, Centos and ZFS

2013-10-12 Thread aurfalien


On Oct 12, 2013, at 10:56 AM, Mark Felder wrote:

 On Sat, Oct 12, 2013, at 10:53, aurfalien wrote:
 Hi,
 
 I would like to first say that by no means is this a hey, why is my Mac
 faster then my PC kind of email.
 
 I'm really hoping its an LSI driver issue.
 
 
 It may very well be an LSI firmware issue. What are the firmwares for
 those HBAs?

I'll get you the exact firmware revs on Monday.

I can look on there site but would rather boot and record the exact numbers 
from there.

- aurf
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Re: what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?

2013-10-12 Thread cikitaluzza

can i run exe files on freeBSD?it spoils fast or not?this question comes from 
fastest ever spoil OS windows which always spoil in a week seven times i think 
with things like errors or dll and many things from blue screen.do you have any 
problems within freeBSD or no problems?i dont like blue screen error or driver 
things and no matter what .how much total ram and bit is my pc of amd 
athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core processor 4000+ 2.11 GHz 960 MB RAM?im always in 
internet watching live camers,what do you suggest me to use os type?i like to 
save pictures and videos and never lost them,if you think your os is gonna 
spoil and lost my all files then i dont need it.i want stable os and never to 
reinstall or update



On Sunday, October 13, 2013 2:44 AM, cikitaluzza cikita100...@yahoo.com wrote:
 
what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core 
processor 4000+ 2.11 GHz 960 MB RAM
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Re: what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 16:44:09 -0700 (PDT), cikitaluzza wrote:
 what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?amd athlon(tm) 64 x2
 dual core processor 4000+ 2.11 GHz 960 MB RAM

Try 9.2 for AMD64. The i386 version should also work (as
you are low on RAM if that might matter, depending on
what non-OS software you're going to run on that machine).



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 16:50:32 -0700 (PDT), cikitaluzza wrote:
 can i run exe files on freeBSD?

Depends. VMX EXE files may work via the SimH emulator. For
DOS EXE and Windows EXE files, there are dosbox and wine.
Those compatibility packs can be easily installed. They
are not part of the OS.



 it spoils fast or not?this question comes from fastest ever
 spoil OS windows which always spoil in a week seven times i
 think with things like errors or dll and many things from
 blue screen.do you have any problems within freeBSD or no
 problems?i dont like blue screen error or driver things and
 no matter what .

Definitely no bluescreens in FreeBSD. The system will behave
exactly as intended and won't change its mind a few days
after installation. :-)


 how much total ram and bit is my pc of amd athlon(tm) 64 x2
 dual core processor 4000+ 2.11 GHz 960 MB RAM?

That's a 64 bit CPU, if I remember correctly. The AMD64 version
should run fine. But as you are a little bit low on RAM, you
might consider using the i386 version (32 bit version) if you
don't _need_ to run any 64 bit application. Especially as you've
mentioned to run EXE files, this might be the better solution.
From what I've heared, wine (the Windows compatibility pack)
runs better on i386 than on amd64. (I'm running it myself on
the i386 OS on a 64 bit system without any problems.)



 im always in internet watching live camers,what do you suggest
 me to use os type?

Is this via web? In this case, only the web browser matters.
The typical candidates Firefox and Chrome should be fine.
The OS does not matter here.

If you need a proprietary program to watch the live cameras,
often available only for an outdated Windows version, running
it with (the mentioned) wine should work. (I've successfully
tried something like that with a program to watch CCTV cameras
via Internet.)



 i like to save pictures and videos and never lost them,if you
 think your os is gonna spoil and lost my all files then i dont
 need it.

Definitely no problem. But keep in mind: _You_ are responsible
for creating backups! FreeBSD offers excellent tools to do so,
no matter if you want to backup to disks, DVDs, the Cloud, or
even to old-fashioned tape.

Saving pictures from videos is no problem. There is mplayer and
mencoder. It plays, records and converts _everything_.



 i want stable os and never to reinstall or update

That approach is unreasonable, I think. You _should_ update when
security updates become available. It's in _your_ interest to do
so, because effciency, security and usability improves from version
to version. Luckily, FreeBSD has an easy way of updating the OS.
It's _independent_ (!) from your installed applications and of
course from your data. You can also decide to update your programs
independently.

However, a install once, then keep using scenario is easily
possible with FreeBSD. (My home system has been installed in
summer 2011 and worked _flawlessly_ since that point, never
touch a running system.)



I suggest you make yourself familiar with FreeBSD by using the
resources from http://www.freebsd.org/ and you _might_ also want
to check out PC-BSD (might be perfect for what you want) and
VirtualBSD (easy way to try it out without installing it).



-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?

On Sat, 2013-10-12 at 16:50 -0700, cikitaluzza wrote:
 can i run exe files on freeBSD?

The raw answer is, no, you can't.

 it spoils fast or not?this question comes from fastest ever spoil OS
 windows which always spoil in a week seven times i think with things
 like errors or dll and many things from blue screen.

This doesn't sound like a Windows only error.

 do you have any problems within freeBSD or no problems?i dont like
 blue screen error or driver things and no matter what .

Regarding to driver issues you better stay with Microsoft or switch to
Apple. Hardware and free/libre and open source software requires the
user to learn and take care if hardware is supported.

 how much total ram and bit is my pc of amd athlon(tm) 64 x2 dual core
 processor 4000+ 2.11 GHz 960 MB RAM?

Around 1 GiB could be ok, but also be not enough RAM, but it seems not
to be an issue.

 im always in internet watching live camers,what do you suggest me to
 use os type?i like to save pictures and videos

Free/libre and open source software does less good support proprietary
codecs and software. At the moment there is a thread about Adobe Flash
on this list. The best choice could be Windows, perhaps installed as
guest to a virtual machine, so that you always can restore it by using
snapshots.

  and never lost them,if you think your os is gonna spoil and lost my
 all files then i dont need it.i want stable os and never to reinstall
 or update

For multimedia Linux might be better than FreeBSD. Neither Linux, nor
FreeBSD tend to lose data, you even shouldn't lose data when using one
of Microsoft's less good Windows versions. It's more likely that users
have less good backup and archiving strategies.

If you want to consume multimedia by the Internet, you likely need to
install security updates and software to use stuff based on proprietary
software. You could set up a text editor and never need to update or to
reinstall something, but the Internet and consuming multimedia likely
need updates from time to time.

Start an adventure ;), nobody will give you a guarantee,
self-responsibility is a catchword for free/libre and open source
software.

FreeBSD and Linux are similar operating systems, on both kernels more or
less the same multimedia applications do run, but the more recent
versions are provided by Linux and multimedia is better supported for
Linux.

I'm an Arch Linux user, it's similar to FreeBSD regarding to a port like
system, however, for your needs IMO Debian Linux stable release might be
the less risky choice. OTOH, why not simply testing FreeBSD?

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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

On Sat, 12 Oct 2013 23:28:40 +0100, gct7photogra...@gmail.com wrote:
 I don't know what others think, but what *I* really want is that the
 free software versions of Flash (gnash and klash, etc) work at least as
 well as versions of Adobe Flash do, or if versions of Adobe Flash are
 to be used, that it will be free and covered by the GPL.

First of all, keep in mind you're walking corporate territory
here. No company will give you anything for free, and even if
it looks free, there's a catch somewhere. Flash as a technology
is dying. It didn't make the transition to the growing mobile
markets. That's why Adobe does not continue its Linux line of
product - a completely reasoname business decision.

People who use, or to be correct, _abuse_ Flash as a replace-
ment for markup and content are not interested in bringing their
product to your attention and reception.

What I'd like to see would be a Flash plugin integrated in
the web browser, with the option of being switched off. I'd
consider it a 1st class citizen by demanding that is has the
same status as embedded media, centered text, a PNG image or
a hyperlink, being a functional module of the web browser
like the renderer, the CSS interpreter, the JS interpreter
or something like that. Could you imagine to install a pro-
prietary plugin to be able to see a JPG image? To see text
centered? To click on a hyperlink? And all the time keep in
mind that it is backdoored? Hmmm...



 Its unlikely to happen unless we start a campaign among the Free
 Software users of the world to make Flash free software.

That won't happen. Flash is the property of a corporation.
The only alternative I see is that this corporation would
donate the product, releasing all the sources and abandoning
all involved lawyer-crap. But that won't happen. I think
most companies better close away the stuff they won't develop
anymore instead of handing it over to a community.



 Yes, I know HTML 5 is just around the corner, but we've seen a
 concerted effort already (in the European Parliament at least) to
 introduce DRM into HTML 5 and though it may make using Flash marginally
 easier, it would be a retrograde step if DRM is to be introduced.

As far as I know, DRM will be covered by the upcoming standard.
This means it will be _possible_ to implement DRM solutions in
HTML. _Using_ them - that's a totally different field.

Keep in mind an important thing:

Alternatives for Flash have been around for a decade at least.
Video, audio, interaction - all possible without it. It's not just
about the browser plugin (the player), it's also about the
creative tools that people use to produce the stuff. Those tools
are offered usually in expensive commercially distributed suites.
As soon as developers and creators get aware of alternatives that
they can learn and use for free, they _might_ change, but only if
the mindset changes.

It's not just about those tools, it's also about file formats.
What I'm talking about is media codecs. Some of them offer DRM
capabilites, others don't. Some of them are highly infected with
patents and other lawyer-crap. There are reasons why some
systems and environments can play various formats out of the
box, and others can't. Which formats are efficient for use with
the Internet? Which offer scaling and streaming capabilities,
important for mobile users who demand lower quality, less data
transfer, and tolerance to higher latency? Which codecs can
make use of a decoder made in hardware?

_This_ problem also has to be solved!

Now put this back into relation with my initial idea of making
that kind of content decoder part of the web browser. The
same way you see a JPG image on a web page and click on a
hyperlink... It should be easy, but sadly it isn't.

HTML5 tries to solve those problems. Its markup will be better
suited for handling media content, plus CSS and JS will be
important players on the interaction field. There are already
projects that utilize those tools, and _developer tools_ as
well as _creator tools_ will be present. Maybe they will even
be present for free. YouTube can do fine without Flash already.
Online games in HTML5 are appearing. On the other hand, Flash
is a no-go on mobile, and mobile is becoming more and more
important to consumers. Additionally, more and more people
become aware of the danger of proprietary software (in regards
of privacy and corporate control, as well as an improving
understanding of what DRM does to their freedom). It will take
some time to show significant effect.

Let's hope people are going to get smarter than I assume. :-)



 So what are we left with?  Free software to replicate what Flash
 does (at least) that does not have the taint of proprietary software?
 Is that not an achievable goal?

It is a _desired_ goal.




-- 
Polytropon
Magdeburg, Germany
Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0
Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ...
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Re: Do I really have to install 80 packages?

On Sun, 2013-10-13 at 04:48 +0200, Polytropon wrote:
 Let's hope people are going to get smarter than I assume. :-)

It's new, not even 100 years old. Within our lifetimes people likely
become more stupid, but yes, it will take some generations and people
will get smarter.


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Re: Is it possible to suspend to disk with geli+Root on ZFS installation

2013-10-12 Thread yudi v

On Mon, Sep 30, 2013 at 2:47 AM, Ian Smith smi...@nimnet.asn.au wrote:
In freebsd-questions Digest, Vol 486, Issue 7, Message: 5
On Sat, 28 Sep 2013 16:25:33 +0200 Roland Smith rsm...@xs4all.nl wrote:
On Fri, Sep 27, 2013 at 05:37:55PM +1000, yudi v wrote:
Hi all,

Is it possible to suspend to disk (hibernate) when using geli for
full disk
encryption.

As far as I can tell, FreeBSD doesn't support suspend to disk on all
architectures. On amd64 the necessary infrastructure doesn't exist,
and on
i386 FPU state is lost, there is no multiprocessor support and some
MSRs are
not restored [1].

[1]: https://wiki.freebsd.org/SuspendResume

Roland, sorry, no; you (and that page) are talking about Suspend to RAM,
ACPI state S3. What you've said is correct re Suspend to RAM - though
some running amd64 have achieved some success on some machines lately;
most of the issues are with restoring modern video, backlight and such.

Those i386 comments don't apply to my Thinkpad T23s, which suspend and
resume, in console mode and X, flawlessly on 9.1-R and properly after
various tweaks on 8.x, 7.x and 6.x - but they're a single core P3-M ..

I must reiterate, FreeBSD does not support Suspend to Disk (state S4 aka
'hibernate') on ANY platform, except - perhaps - on machines supporting
S4 in BIOS (hw.acpi.s4bios=1) which are very rarely spotted in the wild.

And even suspend to RAM doesn't work on every machine [2].

[2]: https://wiki.freebsd.org/IdeasPage#Suspend_to_disk

That page IS about Suspend to Disk - but only as a wishlist idea, as it
has been for many years. Someone did take it on as a Google SoC project
years ago, but nothing ever came of it to my knowledge.

The last laptop I have that will properly hibernate - ie save RAM and
all state to disk and power off, then reload all RAM and state on power
return - is a 300MHz Compaq Armada 1500C (mfg '98), but using the older
APM BIOS rather than ACPI. (It's still running, 24/7/365 since 2002 :)

cheers, Ian

Thanks Ian for clarifying that FreeBSD does not support Suspend to Disk. I
just assumed all major distros supported all the suspend states. Now I am
looking for a UPS that cleanly shuts down the machine when there is a power
outage.
I am looking at a APC Power-Saving Back-UPS ES 8 Outlet 700VA 230V AS
3112http://www.apc.com/products/resource/include/techspec_index.cfm?base_sku=BE700G-AZtotal_watts=200tab=features,
anyone know if apcupsd daemon works fine under FreeBSD or should I be
looking at Network UPS Tools (NUT).

--
Kind regards,
Yudi
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Re: what kind of freeBSD to download for my pc?