RE: hardware problem
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of D G Teed > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 3:54 AM > To: Ted Mittelstaedt > Cc: DAve; FreeBSD Questions > Subject: Re: hardware problem > > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 1:58 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of D G Teed > > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:22 AM > > > To: DAve > > > Cc: FreeBSD Questions > > > Subject: Re: hardware problem > > > > > > > > > Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where > > > the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a > power supply > > > problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these > days and can't > > > handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. > > > > My experience has not been that the power supplies can't handle the > > electrical grid. > > > > What I've mostly seen is that the power supply FANS get dust in them, > > the fans slow down or stop, airflow through the supply drops, and > > then the supply overheats. Once it overheats, the supply will never > > be reliable again and must be thrown out. > > I've been able to routinely clean out the dust with canned air, and > they still die more frequently than say motherboards. Even quality > brands like Antec. I often replace the fan if it is showing signs > of noise from bearing getting burned out. I'm speaking mainly > of home and small office PCs. This is something that won't > happen as much in a server room since the air is cleaner, but > I'd guess the O.P. wasn't in that environment since he is wasting > 3 days before trying another power supply. > > Power supplies do have a limit of life related to the quality > of your electricity Not the good ones. Seriously. I run a NOC that has a 50kva natural gas fired generator. Every Tue. the generator is tested for 1/2 hour (basically we put the entire NOC on generator power for 1/2 hour) There is an automatic transfer switch that switches the entire NOC, under load, including the HVAC unit, onto generator power for 1/2 hour then switches it back to mains power. There is NO feedback circuit that syncs the sinewave from the generator with mains power. As you can imagine the switch is tremendously disruptive. All of the UPSs in the place squawk and switch into UPS power for a couple minutes. All of the UPSes in the place are cut-in types. So far we have only had 1 system lose power supplies on a regular basis, and this was a brand new, very expensive, HP server. (on UPSes of course) HP's replaced at least 8 power supplies in it under warranty. None of the others, including some of the most motley customer-owned clone equipment you might imagine, have suffered power supply failure. The HVAC unit of course heavily filters the air so there is no dust so to speak. I can pull the cover off 3 year old servers and the interior is as pristine as when they are new. And we keep the temp around 68 degrees. Please keep in mind most computer power supples nowadays are auto-switching and will run on anything from 110-220v. It is NOT dirty power that does them in. It is dust. And heat, as you said. Overloading a supply will kill it also - very few (retail) power supplies on the market will run close to their rated power output for any length of time. Today, the biggest problem I see is people demanding these minitower systems, getting these tiny small cases and stuffing them full of hard and optical drives. There's dead air spaces throughout the layout, and small, low-volume "quiet" fans. Hard drives also suffer as a result of this. A disk with good cooling can last many years. But few computers other than server gear provide it to the drive bays. >I can recall the bad > electrolyte scandle with several motherboard brands 5 years ago. > The explanation of the shortened capacitor lifespan due to the > electrolyte missing an ingredient was a bit of an education > into what capacitors do. They do have a limited lifespan > related to heat and the number of hours they are exposed to a high > ripple current. > > Here is an excellent wikipedia entry on capacitor plague > which will explain it in layman's terms. > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague > > If you have not read about this before, it may be an eye opener. > I know all about that. I also own several TV sets that date from late, late 60's early 70's and still work. Electrolytic capacitors h
Re: hardware problem
On Wed, Feb 27, 2008 at 1:58 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of D G Teed > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:22 AM > > To: DAve > > Cc: FreeBSD Questions > > Subject: Re: hardware problem > > > > > > Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where > > the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a power supply > > problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these days and can't > > handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. > > My experience has not been that the power supplies can't handle the > electrical grid. > > What I've mostly seen is that the power supply FANS get dust in them, > the fans slow down or stop, airflow through the supply drops, and > then the supply overheats. Once it overheats, the supply will never > be reliable again and must be thrown out. I've been able to routinely clean out the dust with canned air, and they still die more frequently than say motherboards. Even quality brands like Antec. I often replace the fan if it is showing signs of noise from bearing getting burned out. I'm speaking mainly of home and small office PCs. This is something that won't happen as much in a server room since the air is cleaner, but I'd guess the O.P. wasn't in that environment since he is wasting 3 days before trying another power supply. Power supplies do have a limit of life related to the quality of your electricity (and excessive heat). I can recall the bad electrolyte scandle with several motherboard brands 5 years ago. The explanation of the shortened capacitor lifespan due to the electrolyte missing an ingredient was a bit of an education into what capacitors do. They do have a limited lifespan related to heat and the number of hours they are exposed to a high ripple current. Here is an excellent wikipedia entry on capacitor plague which will explain it in layman's terms. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague If you have not read about this before, it may be an eye opener. --Donald ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 08:38:09PM -0500, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: > > hi guys, >just take every part out and dust with a brush, reseat the m-board > and hook on the power supply, switch on the power and both fans spin > for quite a while, seeing this, I switch it off and start to connect > all the cables. After all is done, i turn on the power again, and this > time it stop again after a short spin. and I looked everywhere on the > board and found some silverish dust on the board, i dust it away, but > this time, the fans and the LED light on the board never spin or lit > up when i switch it on, i wonder if something i did kill the power > this time, any idea?? thank you for your help. > > TFC > Having been round the houses with my new build which displayed similar problems, I would say that what is most likely is that it is a power supply problem. There was a shaky attachment somewhere which loosened when you moved and finally gave up the ghost. Your best approach, is to get a new power supply or case with power supply depending on how old your case is. If that doesn't work, then it's probably your motherboard and unless your CPU is quite new and you can extract it, you'll probably be looking at new CPU and RAM also ie. expensive. If you want to get a new case, then have a look at an Antec Sonata III. It's quiet, comes with all the bits you need and has USB ports and e-SATA on the front. Cost me about 75GBP. 500W power supply which is a bit excessive for my needs though. Best of luck! -- Frank Contact info: http://www.esperance-linux.co.uk/misc/contact.html ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
RE: hardware problem
> -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of D G Teed > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 7:22 AM > To: DAve > Cc: FreeBSD Questions > Subject: Re: hardware problem > > > Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where > the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a power supply > problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these days and can't > handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. My experience has not been that the power supplies can't handle the electrical grid. What I've mostly seen is that the power supply FANS get dust in them, the fans slow down or stop, airflow through the supply drops, and then the supply overheats. Once it overheats, the supply will never be reliable again and must be thrown out. Turning off a computer for a while that has an overheated power supply is a surefire way to have the supply never restart again. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:45 PM, Da Rock <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 20:38 -0500, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: > > hi guys, > >just take every part out and dust with a brush, reseat the m-board > > and hook on the power supply, switch on the power and both fans spin > > for quite a while, seeing this, I switch it off and start to connect > > all the cables. After all is done, i turn on the power again, and this > > time it stop again after a short spin. and I looked everywhere on the > > board and found some silverish dust on the board, i dust it away, but > > this time, the fans and the LED light on the board never spin or lit > > up when i switch it on, i wonder if something i did kill the power > > this time, any idea?? thank you for your help. > > > > TFC > > > > Looks like that little bit of dust was making the system still seem like > its alive. I'd say its well and truely dead now- what do you reckon > guys? > > New M/B and CPU... You are suggesting to replace the MB and CPU? By the same logic, if a light bulb burns out, replace the wiring in your house. That is inappropriate. Power supplies burn out all the time. Replace the power supply. The big clue is when the power supply can't spin it's own fan. Has nothing to do with the rest of the system. --Donald ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
On Mon, 2008-02-25 at 20:38 -0500, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: > hi guys, >just take every part out and dust with a brush, reseat the m-board > and hook on the power supply, switch on the power and both fans spin > for quite a while, seeing this, I switch it off and start to connect > all the cables. After all is done, i turn on the power again, and this > time it stop again after a short spin. and I looked everywhere on the > board and found some silverish dust on the board, i dust it away, but > this time, the fans and the LED light on the board never spin or lit > up when i switch it on, i wonder if something i did kill the power > this time, any idea?? thank you for your help. > > TFC > Looks like that little bit of dust was making the system still seem like its alive. I'd say its well and truely dead now- what do you reckon guys? New M/B and CPU... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
hi guys, just take every part out and dust with a brush, reseat the m-board and hook on the power supply, switch on the power and both fans spin for quite a while, seeing this, I switch it off and start to connect all the cables. After all is done, i turn on the power again, and this time it stop again after a short spin. and I looked everywhere on the board and found some silverish dust on the board, i dust it away, but this time, the fans and the LED light on the board never spin or lit up when i switch it on, i wonder if something i did kill the power this time, any idea?? thank you for your help. TFC On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 7:53 PM, Chris Whitehouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Derek Ragona wrote: > > At 08:06 AM 2/25/2008, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: > >> Hi guys, > >>this is really not about freebsd per sa. But this is the only > >> computer-related forum I use. so please forgive me. > >> my desktop was relocated due to my recent moving to a new > >> apartment. After settling down at the new place, I plug in the cables > >> and the computer won't start up. I open the case and found out that > >> when i switched on the power supply from the back, the power fan and > >> cpu fan will spin for a split second then stop. I tried to debug by > >> unplugging the cables, when doing so, sometimes the fans will spin for > >> 10 seconds, maybe, but most of the time, it just stopped right after > >> the power switched on. I also try to hold down the start button on the > >> front for a while, but no good. I was told the mother board maybe > >> short-circuit. can anyone give a second opinion?? thanks!! > >> > >> TFC > > > > It sounds like you have something shorting out the motherboard. I would > > remove everything you can, all add-on cards etc. Just leave a video > > card, unless video is on the motherboard. I would disconnect all the > > drives too. The idea is to remove everything, so you can check just the > > motherboard alone. If the motherboard still won't power on, remove and > > reseat the RAM. If it still won't power up, remove and re-seat the CPU. > > > > I would guess something inside the case was moved around enough in your > > move to cause the short. > > > > -Derek > > > Agree. The symptoms, fans starting and almost immediately stopping, say > the power supply is starting, detecting a short and shutting down. If > the video card is AGP double check it is properly seated, I've had that > same result several times particularly with AGP cards lifting very > slightly at the inboard end. > > Chris > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
Derek Ragona wrote: At 08:06 AM 2/25/2008, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: Hi guys, this is really not about freebsd per sa. But this is the only computer-related forum I use. so please forgive me. my desktop was relocated due to my recent moving to a new apartment. After settling down at the new place, I plug in the cables and the computer won't start up. I open the case and found out that when i switched on the power supply from the back, the power fan and cpu fan will spin for a split second then stop. I tried to debug by unplugging the cables, when doing so, sometimes the fans will spin for 10 seconds, maybe, but most of the time, it just stopped right after the power switched on. I also try to hold down the start button on the front for a while, but no good. I was told the mother board maybe short-circuit. can anyone give a second opinion?? thanks!! TFC It sounds like you have something shorting out the motherboard. I would remove everything you can, all add-on cards etc. Just leave a video card, unless video is on the motherboard. I would disconnect all the drives too. The idea is to remove everything, so you can check just the motherboard alone. If the motherboard still won't power on, remove and reseat the RAM. If it still won't power up, remove and re-seat the CPU. I would guess something inside the case was moved around enough in your move to cause the short. -Derek Agree. The symptoms, fans starting and almost immediately stopping, say the power supply is starting, detecting a short and shutting down. If the video card is AGP double check it is properly seated, I've had that same result several times particularly with AGP cards lifting very slightly at the inboard end. Chris ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
At 09:58 AM 2/25/2008, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: thank you all for helping. I will reinstall my main again from scratch. one thing i want to know is that if my m-board is short somewhere, does this mean my board is damaged? or it's okay if i can find out what is wrong, and so most likely i need to buy a power supply, is that right at the moment?? thans!! TFC I would look for the short first. You may need to replace nothing. Be sure to check the Motherboard case connectors to the switchs and LEDs as well. -Derek On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:22 AM, D G Teed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where > the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a power supply > problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these days and can't > handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. Most people > who deal with hardware have a spare power supply around just for > testing as this is a very common problem. Motherboards typically > do not stop power supply fans when they can't post. > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, DAve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > IMO, experience says the worst thing you can do to a computer is leave > > it sit a year running, and then move it. > > > > I would get a grounding wrist strap, open the case, remove all cards and > > memory, disconnect all hard drives, clean with a soft brush (never a > > vacuum cleaner), reseat all cards and memory, reconnect all hard drives, > > and then try to restart it. > > > > Even without a post code announcing a problem, I have fixed many "moved" > > PCs this way. > > > > DAve > > > > -- > > Google finally, after 7 years, provided a logo for > > veterans. Thank you Google. What to do with my signature now? > > > > > > ___ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 2900 (20080225) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
thank you all for helping. I will reinstall my main again from scratch. one thing i want to know is that if my m-board is short somewhere, does this mean my board is damaged? or it's okay if i can find out what is wrong, and so most likely i need to buy a power supply, is that right at the moment?? thans!! TFC On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:22 AM, D G Teed <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where > the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a power supply > problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these days and can't > handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. Most people > who deal with hardware have a spare power supply around just for > testing as this is a very common problem. Motherboards typically > do not stop power supply fans when they can't post. > > > > On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, DAve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > IMO, experience says the worst thing you can do to a computer is leave > > it sit a year running, and then move it. > > > > I would get a grounding wrist strap, open the case, remove all cards and > > memory, disconnect all hard drives, clean with a soft brush (never a > > vacuum cleaner), reseat all cards and memory, reconnect all hard drives, > > and then try to restart it. > > > > Even without a post code announcing a problem, I have fixed many "moved" > > PCs this way. > > > > DAve > > > > -- > > Google finally, after 7 years, provided a logo for > > veterans. Thank you Google. What to do with my signature now? > > > > > > ___ > > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
Every system I've seen with his description of the problem, where the power supply can't even run it's own fan, is having a power supply problem. Power supplies are very often low quality these days and can't handle the stresses of typical electrical grid fluctuations. Most people who deal with hardware have a spare power supply around just for testing as this is a very common problem. Motherboards typically do not stop power supply fans when they can't post. On Mon, Feb 25, 2008 at 10:35 AM, DAve <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > IMO, experience says the worst thing you can do to a computer is leave > it sit a year running, and then move it. > > I would get a grounding wrist strap, open the case, remove all cards and > memory, disconnect all hard drives, clean with a soft brush (never a > vacuum cleaner), reseat all cards and memory, reconnect all hard drives, > and then try to restart it. > > Even without a post code announcing a problem, I have fixed many "moved" > PCs this way. > > DAve > > -- > Google finally, after 7 years, provided a logo for > veterans. Thank you Google. What to do with my signature now? > > > ___ > freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list > http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions > To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" > ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
At 08:06 AM 2/25/2008, Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: Hi guys, this is really not about freebsd per sa. But this is the only computer-related forum I use. so please forgive me. my desktop was relocated due to my recent moving to a new apartment. After settling down at the new place, I plug in the cables and the computer won't start up. I open the case and found out that when i switched on the power supply from the back, the power fan and cpu fan will spin for a split second then stop. I tried to debug by unplugging the cables, when doing so, sometimes the fans will spin for 10 seconds, maybe, but most of the time, it just stopped right after the power switched on. I also try to hold down the start button on the front for a while, but no good. I was told the mother board maybe short-circuit. can anyone give a second opinion?? thanks!! TFC It sounds like you have something shorting out the motherboard. I would remove everything you can, all add-on cards etc. Just leave a video card, unless video is on the motherboard. I would disconnect all the drives too. The idea is to remove everything, so you can check just the motherboard alone. If the motherboard still won't power on, remove and reseat the RAM. If it still won't power up, remove and re-seat the CPU. I would guess something inside the case was moved around enough in your move to cause the short. -Derek -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: hardware problem
Tsu-Fan Cheng wrote: > Hi guys, >this is really not about freebsd per sa. But this is the only > computer-related forum I use. so please forgive me. > my desktop was relocated due to my recent moving to a new > apartment. After settling down at the new place, I plug in the cables > and the computer won't start up. I open the case and found out that > when i switched on the power supply from the back, the power fan and > cpu fan will spin for a split second then stop. I tried to debug by > unplugging the cables, when doing so, sometimes the fans will spin for > 10 seconds, maybe, but most of the time, it just stopped right after > the power switched on. I also try to hold down the start button on the > front for a while, but no good. I was told the mother board maybe > short-circuit. can anyone give a second opinion?? thanks!! > > TFC IMO, experience says the worst thing you can do to a computer is leave it sit a year running, and then move it. I would get a grounding wrist strap, open the case, remove all cards and memory, disconnect all hard drives, clean with a soft brush (never a vacuum cleaner), reseat all cards and memory, reconnect all hard drives, and then try to restart it. Even without a post code announcing a problem, I have fixed many "moved" PCs this way. DAve -- Google finally, after 7 years, provided a logo for veterans. Thank you Google. What to do with my signature now? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
Re: Hardware Problem - FreeBSD 6.2
On Thursday 01 March 2007 16:10, Rômulo Lima wrote: > Hi, > > Good morning, my name is Rômulo Lima, I had a problem when make an upgrade in my Freebsd Server from version 6.1 to 6.2. Before upgrade my SATA disc controller was working normally: > > atapci1: port 0xec00-0xec0f,0xe480-0xe487,0xe400-0xe40f,0xe080-0xe087,0xe000-0xe01f mem 0xd800-0xdbff irq 21 at device 31.1 on pci0 > ad4: 78167MB at ata2-master SATA150 > > But after upgrade I got the following error, and my SATA disc stops, after that I proceeded with a downgrade and may Server work fine again. > > atapci1: AHCI controller reset failure > device_attach: atapci1 attach returned 6 > > I search a solution on some mail lists, but I still have no solution to this problem, if anyone can help me I will thank very much! > Hello Romulo, Check this message and the relevant thread: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-stable/2005-January/011256.html If that's not your case, please post a message to stable@ with an appropriate subject(SATA: AHCI controller reset failure for example) to catch some attention. Nikos ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
