Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 04:08:40PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:39:41AM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 03:16:08PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. I also argured that utf-8 was a waste of a whole byte per char for most of us. That's not true. UTF-8 is a variable-length encoding. It is backwards compatible with ASCII, i.e. ascii characters are one byte in UTF-8 as well. Are you thinking about UTF-16? I don't know. (Mark Twain.) Back in the late 1990's I was assigned the project of converting all the utilities I had ported to three European languages. Until now I had no idea there was anything *but* utf-16, i.e. 2-bytes/char. Both UTF-8 and UTF-16 are variable-width encodings. With memory seriously getting to be dirt-cheap, wasting 8-bits doesn't seem that big a deal. Indeed. Maybe some future wizard will invent a UTF-32 that will hold all ~90 000 Chinese characters and these will be downsized automatically to UTF-8 when you're mixing Mandarin with, say, Cesk [Czeck]. UTF-32 already exists, but it's a fixed-width (4 bytes) encoding. Hmm, somebody just told me that aigu is not English but French and means acute. ...all these years i thought ... oh well. Anyway, do you know if '\0351' is a 16-bit character? is is 0xE9 and decimal 233 and certaing should fit into a byte. just wondering. Obviously it is a 8-bit character; anything in the range 0-255 is. In ISO 8859-1(5) it is é (e with accent aigu). Please look up UTF-8,16,32 and ISO-8859-15 on Wikipedia for further enlightenment. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpmTzlhyO5ig.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 09:35:07PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? Why settle for ISO-8859-1? Switch to UTF-8 instead, wich can display a much larger number of characters, and is becoming the standard. I added the following to the 'setenv' section of the 'default' profile in login.conf: LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 AFAICT, the console doesn't have UTF-8 fonts (yet?). But that doesn't bother me because I always use X anyway. So I added the following to my ~/.xinitrc as well: export LANG=en_US.UTF-8 I installed the rxvt-unicode terminal emulator because it's a lot lighter then xterm, although both should handle UTF-8. You should use a unicode font though. I put the following in my ~/.Xresources: ! for xterm XTerm*foreground: white XTerm*background: #010040 XTerm*utf8: 2 XTerm*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 XTerm*title: Shell XTerm*loginShell: True XTerm*scrollBar: False XTerm*saveLines: 0 XTerm*ttyModes: erase ^H XTerm*vt100.translations: #override \ Home: string(\033[1~) \n\ Delete:string(\033[3~) \n\ End: string(\033[4~) ! for urxvt Rxvt*foreground: white Rxvt*background: #010040 Rxvt*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 urxvt_transp*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 Rxvt*title: Shell Rxvt*loginShell: True Rxvt*scrollBar: False Rxvt*saveLines: 0 The critical part is the font specification; it should end with iso10646-1. My /etc/csh.cshrc has some settings for less: setenv LESSOPEN'|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s' setenv LESSCHARSET utf-8 Mutt has to be told as well, in ~/.muttrc: set charset=utf-8 set send_charset=us-ascii:iso-8859-15:utf-8 In ~/.emacs.el(c) there are some settings as well: ;; Set language environment for MULE. (set-language-environment 'UTF-8) ;; My customization for text modes (defun my-text-mode-hook () (auto-fill-mode 1) (show-paren-mode t) (activate-input-method 'rfc1345) ; Good input method for UTF-8 ) (add-hook 'text-mode-hook 'my-text-mode-hook) Other programs you should look at are Firefox: edit - preferences - content tab - Font Colors, advanced button; default encoding - select Unicode (UTF-8). Other programs may have settings for unicode, but these are the ones that spring to mind. Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgphIMNUJunW8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, 9 Sep 2008, Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 09:35:07PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? The euro is not in iso-8859-1, but iso-8859-15. You need to load the appropriate fonts (at boot if you are root, see /etc/rc.conf) or use vidcontrol to load the iso fonts when you log in. You need to set your TERM environmental variable to the appropriate value in your shell rc. That might be cons25l1. You can check out termcap from a link in /etc. Why settle for ISO-8859-1? Switch to UTF-8 instead, wich can display a much larger number of characters, and is becoming the standard. Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. I added the following to the 'setenv' section of the 'default' profile in login.conf: LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 AFAICT, the console doesn't have UTF-8 fonts (yet?). It won't until video cards support this level of bloat. I don't know of a single video card that does that. But that doesn't bother me because I always use X anyway. Wouldn't you really be happier with Windoz? -- Lars Eighner http://www.larseighner.com/index.html 8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 12:14:47PM -0500, Lars Eighner wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008, Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 09:35:07PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? The euro is not in iso-8859-1, but iso-8859-15. You need to load the appropriate fonts (at boot if you are root, see /etc/rc.conf) or use vidcontrol to load the iso fonts when you log in. You need to set your TERM environmental variable to the appropriate value in your shell rc. That might be cons25l1. You can check out termcap from a link in /etc. Why settle for ISO-8859-1? Switch to UTF-8 instead, wich can display a much larger number of characters, and is becoming the standard. Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. What ISO supports English, German, French, and Russian? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 06:54:56PM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 09:35:07PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? Why settle for ISO-8859-1? Switch to UTF-8 instead, wich can display a much larger number of characters, and is becoming the standard. I added the following to the 'setenv' section of the 'default' profile in login.conf: LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 AFAICT, the console doesn't have UTF-8 fonts (yet?). But that doesn't bother me because I always use X anyway. So I added the following to my ~/.xinitrc as well: export LANG=en_US.UTF-8 I installed the rxvt-unicode terminal emulator because it's a lot lighter then xterm, although both should handle UTF-8. You should use a unicode font though. I put the following in my ~/.Xresources: I had something like what you've got below all the years I used Ctwm, either in ~/.xinitrc or ~/.Xresources. With more customization in ~/.ctwmrc. Now I'm using primarily KDE and used to their Konsole hack of xterm. Any idea of a URL that has this level of utf-8 for konsole? ! for xterm XTerm*foreground: white XTerm*background: #010040 XTerm*utf8: 2 [[ saved away ]] Rxvt*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 urxvt_transp*font: -misc-fixed-medium-r-normal--14-130-75-75-c-70-iso10646-1 Rxvt*title: Shell Rxvt*scrollBar: False Rxvt*saveLines: 0 The critical part is the font specification; it should end with iso10646-1. I used some times-new-roman, but it shouldn't matter as long as either xterm on konsole is there. I hope! My /etc/csh.cshrc has some settings for less: setenv LESSOPEN'|/usr/bin/lesspipe.sh %s' setenv LESSCHARSET utf-8 Mutt has to be told as well, in ~/.muttrc: set charset=utf-8 set send_charset=us-ascii:iso-8859-15:utf-8 In ~/.emacs.el(c) there are some settings as well: ;; Set language environment for MULE. (set-language-environment 'UTF-8) ;; My customization for text modes (defun my-text-mode-hook () (auto-fill-mode 1) (show-paren-mode t) (activate-input-method 'rfc1345) ; Good input method for UTF-8 ) (add-hook 'text-mode-hook 'my-text-mode-hook) Other programs you should look at are Firefox: edit - preferences - content tab - Font Colors, advanced button; default encoding - select Unicode (UTF-8). All done, thanks. Other programs may have settings for unicode, but these are the ones that spring to mind. Oh, let me brag about 1/1000th of a bit and announce that after decades of study [on-off] I can read a wee bit of French. Well, given a French- English diction to translate every third word, :-) aint life great? Oui! gary Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 12:14:47PM -0500, Lars Eighner wrote: On Tue, 9 Sep 2008, Roland Smith wrote: On Mon, Sep 08, 2008 at 09:35:07PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? The euro is not in iso-8859-1, but iso-8859-15. You need to load the appropriate fonts (at boot if you are root, see /etc/rc.conf) Yeah, I fergot. or use vidcontrol to load the iso fonts when you log in. You need to set your TERM environmental variable to the appropriate value in your shell rc. That might be cons25l1. You can check out termcap from a link in /etc. Why settle for ISO-8859-1? Switch to UTF-8 instead, wich can display a much larger number of characters, and is becoming the standard. Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. I got into several fistfights when I was doing error-translation for BSD at work, and refused to use utf-8 because it didn't support enough of the Chinese glyphs. But enough, I suppose; unless you want to create some severely obscure word. I also argured that utf-8 was a waste of a whole byte per char for most of us. I added the following to the 'setenv' section of the 'default' profile in login.conf: LC_ALL=en_US.UTF-8 AFAICT, the console doesn't have UTF-8 fonts (yet?). It won't until video cards support this level of bloat. I don't know of a single video card that does that. But that doesn't bother me because I always use X anyway. Wouldn't you really be happier with Windoz? Errp. I'm gonna lose my lunch! gary -- Lars Eighner http://www.larseighner.com/index.html 8800 N IH35 APT 1191 AUSTIN TX 78753-5266 -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 02:47:34PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: I installed the rxvt-unicode terminal emulator because it's a lot lighter then xterm, although both should handle UTF-8. You should use a unicode font though. I put the following in my ~/.Xresources: I had something like what you've got below all the years I used Ctwm, either in ~/.xinitrc or ~/.Xresources. With more customization in ~/.ctwmrc. Now I'm using primarily KDE and used to their Konsole hack of xterm. Any idea of a URL that has this level of utf-8 for konsole? Doesn't konsole have a help menu? Otherwise check the konsole site: http://konsole.kde.org/ It seems to have a handbook online. Maybe the View-Set Character Encoding menu option is what you're looking for? Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpBxPxlV6LBF.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 03:16:08PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. I also argured that utf-8 was a waste of a whole byte per char for most of us. That's not true. UTF-8 is a variable-length encoding. It is backwards compatible with ASCII, i.e. ascii characters are one byte in UTF-8 as well. Are you thinking about UTF-16? Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) pgpH65T3gWrFG.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Wed, 10 Sep 2008 00:28:14 +0200, Roland Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Doesn't konsole have a help menu? Otherwise check the konsole site: http://konsole.kde.org/ It seems to have a handbook online. Isn't there a man konsole? Oh wait, KDE doesn't have standard manpages... :-) Never mind, I'm just joking. -- Polytropon From Magdeburg, Germany Happy FreeBSD user since 4.0 Andra moi ennepe, Mousa, ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Wed, Sep 10, 2008 at 12:39:41AM +0200, Roland Smith wrote: On Tue, Sep 09, 2008 at 03:16:08PM -0700, Gary Kline wrote: Because it is a hiddeous waste for most readers and writers of English and other European languages. I also argured that utf-8 was a waste of a whole byte per char for most of us. That's not true. UTF-8 is a variable-length encoding. It is backwards compatible with ASCII, i.e. ascii characters are one byte in UTF-8 as well. Are you thinking about UTF-16? I don't know. (Mark Twain.) Back in the late 1990's I was assigned the project of converting all the utilities I had ported to three European languages. Until now I had no idea there was anything *but* utf-16, i.e. 2-bytes/char. With memory seriously getting to be dirt-cheap, wasting 8-bits doesn't seem that big a deal. Maybe some future wizard will invent a UTF-32 that will hold all ~90 000 Chinese characters and these will be downsized automatically to UTF-8 when you're mixing Mandarin with, say, Cesk [Czeck]. Hmm, somebody just told me that aigu is not English but French and means acute. ...all these years i thought ... oh well. Anyway, do you know if '\0351' is a 16-bit character? is is 0xE9 and decimal 233 and certaing should fit into a byte. just wondering. gary Roland -- R.F.Smith http://www.xs4all.nl/~rsmith/ [plain text _non-HTML_ PGP/GnuPG encrypted/signed email much appreciated] pgp: 1A2B 477F 9970 BA3C 2914 B7CE 1277 EFB0 C321 A725 (KeyID: C321A725) -- Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.thought.org Public Service Unix http://jottings.thought.org http://transfinite.thought.org ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: how can i use ISO-8859-1??
On Mon, 8 Sep 2008 21:35:07 -0700, Gary Kline [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Guys, This is one of the I've-been-meaning-to-ask questions; but other things keep happening that took precedence. Now it's time to ask what are the voodoo commands to set up in my ~/.zshrc or other initiation files (probably including my muttrc) that will let me print to stdout, characters like the e-aigu or u-umlaut and the currency pound or Euro? I keep running into '\240' characters that are likely M$ format commands. [...] That's not really an ISO 8859-1 problem, but a locale setup issue. In my .bashrc file I have the following: # Locale setup. export LANG=C export LC_CTYPE=el_GR.ISO8859-7 export LC_COLLATE=el_GR.ISO8859-7 unset LC_ALL LC_MESSAGES LC_MONETARY LC_NUMERIC LC_TIME You can use something similar to set things up for `en_US.ISO8859-1': # Locale setup. export LANG=C export LC_CTYPE=en_US.ISO8859-1 export LC_COLLATE=en_US.ISO8859-1 unset LC_ALL LC_MESSAGES LC_MONETARY LC_NUMERIC LC_TIME If you want _everything_ to be displayed using the standard en_US conventions for en_US.ISO8859-1, you can alternatively use: export LANG=C export LC_ALL=en_US.ISO8859-1 unset LC_CTYPE LC_COLLATE LC_MESSAGES LC_MONETARY LC_NUMERIC LC_TIME and let LC_ALL override everything. A slightly better idea (which doesn't hardcode LANG and LC_ALL for all shell instances) is to configure your personal `.login_conf' file with something like: me:\ :charset=iso-8859-1:\ :lang=en_US.ISO8859-1:\ :setenv=LC_ALL=en_US.ISO8859-1: With this in place you will get the 'correct' environment regardless of the login shell you are using: bash, csh or zsh. Note: By avoiding hardcoded locale setup in your shell startup file you can even spawn sub-shells with different locales. Here's how a zsh session with `en_US.ISO8859-1' can spawn a ksh session with a Greek locale for example: zsh env | egrep '^(LANG|LC_ALL)' LANG=en_US.ISO8859-1 LC_ALL=en_US.ISO8859-1 zsh env LANG='el_GR.ISO8859-7' LC_ALL='el_GR.ISO8859-7' ksh ksh$ mutt Note that this is only ``half of the setup'' though. You will then have to make sure that your terminal emulator can display ISO 8859-1 text correctly, by choosing an appropriate font set. The xlsfonts(1) and the fc-list(1) utilities can show you a list of installed fonts: # xlsfonts | fgrep '8859-1' # fc-list Pick one that includes ISO 8859-1 characters, and off you go :) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
