Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000

2006-09-12 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt

- Original Message - 
From: Lee Shackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Sent: Monday, September 11, 2006 9:23 AM
Subject: Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000


 Good morning, Mr. Mittelstaedt.  Again, many thanks for your response to
my
 question.  My original purpose in purchasing the computer was to install
 multiple operating systems for hobbyist purpose.  The computer's major
 selling point was that it has five hard drives.  My original idea was to
 install a different operating system on each one.  When I discovered that
 it had the rather sophisticated RAID-5 system implemented in hardware, I
 discarded that idea in favor of partitioning the hard drive to install the
 operating systems.  The next operating system that I wanted after Windows
 Server 2000, with which it came equipped was FreeBSD.  This project has
 become painfully involved, first of all, because I did not understand the
 fact, documented nowhere, that the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
 server is totally different from the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
 workstation.  With experience, and with information eventually traded
 across the internet from other computer enthusiasts trying to do the same
 thing, I have eventually gained enough understanding of the BIOS to
 proceed.

OK, you bought the computer to install operating systems on to do - what?

Seems to me you wanted to install them to LEARN.

Well, a computer OS is an integral part of the computer - like
ying and yang, each requires the other.

How exactly did you think that you were going to be able to learn
anything whatsoever of value about an operating system by completely
ignoring the hardware it was running on?

Seems to me your money has been well spent on training.  I'm
sorry if the training isn't teaching you things that you think you thought
you needed to know.  But guess what, life is like that.

Let me put it another way.

If I needed to hire someone to install a Windows server, which
would be a better choice?

Someone who actually knows that server BIOS's are somewhat
different than Workstation BIOSES?

Someone who has actually installed a server OS and solved problems
with getting it to work on hardware they are unfamiliar with?

Or, some newly-minted MSCSE who has only installed Windows
on his desktop computer, but by golly, knows all the definitions
in the Microsoft literature?

Think about it.

 The process has also been stymied by the fact that the developers
 of the boot program for sysinstall have failed, even in its latest
edition,
 to install in BOOT the necessary features to read the output of a Compaq
 server BIOS, in particular the ability to correctly interpret the size of
 memory.

The developers know all about the Compaq issues.  Those are first
of all solved in the latest Compaq BIOSES that ship with the current
HP/Compaq servers.  Secondly, there's workarounds.  Thirdly,
Compaq did it wrong back then.  What good reason do we want
to break sysinstall to have it do things the wrong way, so that it
can work with old Compaq gear?

 Thanks to you, other respondents, and experience, I feel that I
 now have a grip of that issue.  My latest problem stems from the fact that
 I had intended to install a portion of the BSD operating system in a
 primary Windows partition (BSD slice) below the 1024 cylinder limit, and
 the rest of it in a larger Windows logical partition within the extended
 partition, above 1024 cylinders.

You need to throw most of this cylinder nonsense out the window it is
meaningless to any OS that will run on that hardware, with the exception
of DOS.

 Even though the handbook, as well as
 several other documents, clearly states that the operating system cannot
be
 loaded into a logical partition, the implication of that statement did not
 register in my brain until I tried to do it.

More learning that a lot of more advanced techs than you still don't
understand.

 I wonder if system designers
 realize the extent to which the requirements that the entire system, or at
 least the boot BSD partition be loaded below 1024 cylinders, and the
 requirement that the operating system not be loaded into the extended
 Windows partition are in conflict in a multiple operating system
 environment.

They do.  They don't care.  Multiple boot systems are for the birds.
Mostly what happens is that people load multiple OS's on a system,
intending to use all of them, then discover 3-4 months into it that
it's too much of a PIA to keep rebooting all the time to get into a
different system, and end up spending all their time in one system.

If you really want multiple OS, buy multiple computers and plug
them into a single console with a KVM switch.  Much more
practical.

But, by all means, do it anyway, you probably won't really
understand what I mean when I say they are for the birds until
you have experienced a multiboot system.  One again, more
learning.

 Some

Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000

2006-09-11 Thread Lee Shackelford
Good morning, Mr. Mittelstaedt.  Again, many thanks for your response to my
question.  My original purpose in purchasing the computer was to install
multiple operating systems for hobbyist purpose.  The computer's major
selling point was that it has five hard drives.  My original idea was to
install a different operating system on each one.  When I discovered that
it had the rather sophisticated RAID-5 system implemented in hardware, I
discarded that idea in favor of partitioning the hard drive to install the
operating systems.  The next operating system that I wanted after Windows
Server 2000, with which it came equipped was FreeBSD.  This project has
become painfully involved, first of all, because I did not understand the
fact, documented nowhere, that the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
server is totally different from the BIOS of a computer intended to be a
workstation.  With experience, and with information eventually traded
across the internet from other computer enthusiasts trying to do the same
thing, I have eventually gained enough understanding of the BIOS to
proceed.  The process has also been stymied by the fact that the developers
of the boot program for sysinstall have failed, even in its latest edition,
to install in BOOT the necessary features to read the output of a Compaq
server BIOS, in particular the ability to correctly interpret the size of
memory.  Thanks to you, other respondents, and experience, I feel that I
now have a grip of that issue.  My latest problem stems from the fact that
I had intended to install a portion of the BSD operating system in a
primary Windows partition (BSD slice) below the 1024 cylinder limit, and
the rest of it in a larger Windows logical partition within the extended
partition, above 1024 cylinders.  Even though the handbook, as well as
several other documents, clearly states that the operating system cannot be
loaded into a logical partition, the implication of that statement did not
register in my brain until I tried to do it.  I wonder if system designers
realize the extent to which the requirements that the entire system, or at
least the boot BSD partition be loaded below 1024 cylinders, and the
requirement that the operating system not be loaded into the extended
Windows partition are in conflict in a multiple operating system
environment.  Some documentation says that the 1024 cylinder limit does not
apply in many cases, but it never says when it applies and when it does not
apply.  I feel, that to make this system work, I will have to use some type
of exotic partition manager such as Ranish or XOSL that can create a large
number of primary partitions.  I had originally wished to stick with GNU
tools such as parted and grub.  I realize my explanation is a bit long
winded, but I hope it clarifies my goals.  Yours truly, Lee Shackelford


   
 Ted  
 Mittelstaedt 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]  To 
 o.comfreebsd-questions@freebsd.org,
   Lee Shackelford   
 09/06/2006 11:07  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 PM cc 
   
   Subject 
   Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq
   Proliant 5000   
   
   
   
   
   
   




This isn't unusual, it happens with certain array cards.

If the disk drivers of each different operating system don't agree in how
the disk is laid out that the intelligent driver array controller
presents
to
them, then your screwed - you cannot use the array card for a multi-boot
system.

Sometimes you can get away with it by installing FreeBSD on part of
the disk, and a subsequent disk driver will see the FreeBSD partition and
understand not to overwrite it.  But, sometimes not.

It strikes me that Win 2003 Server is going to run dogpile slow, I
simply cannot fathom why you want to multiboot this system in the
first place.  The only OS's that are going to run worth a damn on it
are Linux and FreeBSD, and you just need to pick one or the
other.

Ted

PS:  You do understand

Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000

2006-09-07 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt
This isn't unusual, it happens with certain array cards.

If the disk drivers of each different operating system don't agree in how
the disk is laid out that the intelligent driver array controller presents
to
them, then your screwed - you cannot use the array card for a multi-boot
system.

Sometimes you can get away with it by installing FreeBSD on part of
the disk, and a subsequent disk driver will see the FreeBSD partition and
understand not to overwrite it.  But, sometimes not.

It strikes me that Win 2003 Server is going to run dogpile slow, I
simply cannot fathom why you want to multiboot this system in the
first place.  The only OS's that are going to run worth a damn on it
are Linux and FreeBSD, and you just need to pick one or the
other.

Ted

PS:  You do understand the difference between FreeBSD
slices, FreeBSD partitions, and IBM/BIOS partitions don't you?
That is your not doing something incorrect like trying to install
another OS within a FreeBSD logical slice


- Original Message - 
From: Lee Shackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Sent: Wednesday, September 06, 2006 10:00 AM
Subject: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000



 Initial message posted on 8/24/2006:
 Good morning dear FreeBSD enthusiasts.  I am attempting to install FreeBSD
 6.1 on a Compaq Proliant 5000.  The computer is equipped with four Pentium
 Pro processors clocked at 200 mhz and with a Smart 2/P hardware-RAID
array.
 The BIOS indicates that the first two processors have failed.  They are
 actually okay, but there is something wrong with their socket on the
 motherboard...

 Current message:
 Thank you to the two people who responded to my original message.  With
 their help, I have progressed to the point of specifying the slice into
 which I want the system installed.  There are three primary slices on this
 computer, plus one extended slice.  The three primary slices all end
within
 the 1024 cylinder limit.  The two primary slices that do not contain
 FreeBSD are reserved for the installation of other operating systems.  I
 wish to place the swap slice/partition in the extended slice.  The fdisk
 program supplied with FreeBSD  sees all of the extended slice as one
slice,
 and does not seem to be able to see the logical slices within it.  Most of
 my 15 gb. drive is in the extended slice.  Does anyone know how to solve
 this problem?  All suggestions are appreciated.  Yours truly, Lee
 Shackelford

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Re: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000

2006-08-26 Thread Ted Mittelstaedt
Give it up.  First, you need to set Windows or DOS in the BIOS setting
not SCO.  SCO sets up the SMP table all wrong.  that should also
fix the mem reporting problem.

But the big problem is that the ida driver crapped up support for
EISA cards some time ago.  I keep meaning to setup a test Proliant
and bug the ida driver author to fix it, but I have never got round
tuit.

If you can find a PCI compaq raid card you might get somewhere.

Ted

- Original Message - 
From: Lee Shackelford [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org
Sent: Thursday, August 24, 2006 10:27 AM
Subject: installing 6.1 on Compaq Proliant 5000



 Good morning dear FreeBSD enthusiasts.  I am attempting to install FreeBSD
 6.1 on a Compaq Proliant 5000.  The computer is equipped with four Pentium
 Pro processors clocked at 200 mhz and with a Smart 2/P hardware-RAID
array.
 The BIOS indicates that the first two processors have failed.  They are
 actually okay, but there is something wrong with their socket on the
 motherboard.

 The following sequence is being quoted from human memory.  I ran
SmartStart
 with the request to install S.C.O. OpenUnix.  Of the operating systems
 supported by SmartStart, this one sounded the most similar to FreeBSD.
 Then I rebooted with the CD containing FreeBSD 6.1 in the SCSI CD-ROM
 reader.  To my surprise, the computer booted off of the CD-ROM.
Initially,
 the screen displayed in black-and-white.  When a list box appeared, I
 entered the request for a command prompt.  The monitor immediately
 displayed a command prompt.  I entered the following commands:

 load ida
 load sym
 set Hint.acpi.0.disabled=1
 set Hw.physmem=1048576K
 boot

 The fourth command was entered because the boot program does not correctly
 interpret the memory size from the information transferred to it from the
 BIOS.  Then a lengthy list of device drivers either installed, or
 failed-to-install, scrolled down the face of the monitor, still in
 black-and-white.  Then the screen displayed a blue background, and a
 colored message appeared saying probing for devices.  Then it displayed
a
 message to choose a country code.  The display delayed response to
keyboard
 entries by two minutes or more for each keystroke.  I selected United
 States.  Several minutes later, the list box disappeared, and screen
 became blank blue.  One-half hour later, another list box displayed which
 gave the user choices of the type of install desired.   There was
 absolutely no response on the screen to any keyboard entry.  What am I
 doing wrong?  Any and all suggestions will be appreciated.  Yours truly,
 Lee

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