Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 09:19:40AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:25:19 -0400 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 07:00:39AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: I would like to find a disk partition (slice in FreeBSD nomenclature) editor that runs under FreeBSD that is able to deal properly with logical partition entries chained from an extended partition entry in the Master Boot Record. fdisk(8) appears to be too primitive to understand logical partitions. I am not clear about what you are trying to do, but fdisk should not be mucking with so-called logical partitions. FreeBSD does not As I wrote already, I do know that fdisk(8) does not understand logical partitions, so forget fdisk. I'm looking for something that does understand them. really deal with 'logical' partitions'.Anyway, they are more akin It certainly does. I've been using them since I first installed FreeBSD 5.2.1 in 2005, and FreeBSD understands them just fine. The FreeBSD boot loader is another matter, but it's probably not big enough to be that smart. to FreeBSD partitions than slices. Slices are the primary division No, they are not. They exist because the design for the Master Boot Record only has four entries, which originally limited one to having no more than four disk partitions. Yes, of course, there is some reason there are four and that reason is almost always because a table somewhere has been allocated with only room for those. Yes, all divisions that are made on a disk are logical - even sectors and cylyndars in some sense. And below, yup, just what we all said. The slices are subdivided in to other logical divisions.Yes, FreeBSD can talk to MS type logical divisions. But, they don't exactly mix. A MS logical partition doesn't fit in a FreeBSD slice being used as a FreeBSD slice. jerry If one needs more partitions than four, then one must use one of the four MBR entries as an entry for the Extended Partition, which anchors a chain of small descriptors that each contain a) a logical partition entry and b) a pointer to the next descriptor in the chain. A disk partition that has a type of 165 (IIRC) is a FreeBSD slice. It matters not whether that partition is a primary partition or a logical partition. The kernel is smart enough to understand the logical partition chain. and partitions are the subdivisions.fdisk handles creating slices A FreeBSD partition is a subdivision of a FreeBSD slice, which is just a disk partition, either primary or logical, of type 165. and MBRs. For partitions you use bsdlabel and it handles the boot record that the MBR hands control off to. ... ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Mon, 22 Sep 2008 11:28:05 -0400 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 09:19:40AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:25:19 -0400 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 07:00:39AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: I would like to find a disk partition (slice in FreeBSD nomenclature) editor that runs under FreeBSD that is able to deal properly with logical partition entries chained from an extended partition entry in the Master Boot Record. fdisk(8) appears to be too primitive to understand logical partitions. I am not clear about what you are trying to do, but fdisk should not be mucking with so-called logical partitions. FreeBSD does not As I wrote already, I do know that fdisk(8) does not understand logical partitions, so forget fdisk. I'm looking for something that does understand them. really deal with 'logical' partitions'.Anyway, they are more akin It certainly does. I've been using them since I first installed FreeBSD 5.2.1 in 2005, and FreeBSD understands them just fine. The FreeBSD boot loader is another matter, but it's probably not big enough to be that smart. to FreeBSD partitions than slices. Slices are the primary division No, they are not. They exist because the design for the Master Boot Record only has four entries, which originally limited one to having no more than four disk partitions. Yes, of course, there is some reason there are four and that reason is almost always because a table somewhere has been allocated with only room for those. Yes, all divisions that are made on a disk are logical - even sectors and cylyndars in some sense. Logical partition is standard terminology, as are primary partition, extended partition, and Master Boot Record. I am surprised that you are unfamiliar with these. In any case, I defined logical and extended partitions for you. And below, yup, just what we all said. The slices are subdivided in to other logical divisions.Yes, FreeBSD can talk to MS type logical divisions. Perhaps you could provide your definition of a MS type logical division, a term I don't know and haven't used. But it isn't relevant here anyway, so it doesn't matter much whether you do or don't. But, they don't exactly mix. A MS logical partition doesn't fit in a FreeBSD slice being used as a FreeBSD slice. I'm not sure what you mean by a MS logical partition, but trying to fit a logical partition into anything but the extended partition is meaningless. However, using a logical partition as a FreeBSD slice is perfectly normal. The only catch is that the FreeBSD boot loader has to boot from a FreeBSD root file system located inside a FreeBSD slice that is a primary partition. I confess that I don't know whether using some other boot loader (e.g., grub) would allow one to boot from a FreeBSD root file system in a slice that is a logical partition because I haven't tried it, but I have been told by others that it does indeed work. Here are the device nodes for the drive that I need to repartition: crw-r- 1 root operator0, 149 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 150 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s1 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 151 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s2 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 152 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s3 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 153 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 159 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4a crw-r- 1 root operator0, 160 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4b crw-r- 1 root operator0, 161 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4c crw-r- 1 root operator0, 162 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4d crw-r- 1 root operator0, 163 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s4e crw-r- 1 root operator0, 155 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s5 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 156 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s6 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 164 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s6c crw-r- 1 root operator0, 165 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s6d crw-r- 1 root operator0, 166 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s6e crw-r- 1 root operator0, 200 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s6f crw-r- 1 root operator0, 157 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s7 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 158 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s8 crw-r- 1 root operator0, 202 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s8c crw-r- 1 root operator0, 203 Aug 28 15:48 /dev/da2s8d Note that the FreeBSD slices at /dev/da2s[68] do not conform to your notions. (I see also that I remembered incorrectly the number of partitions on the disk, but there are enough there to demonstrate that there are several logical partitions, two of which are also FreeBSD slices containing FreeBSD partitions.) I don't know why the FreeBSD developers chose to introduce such confusing terminology (i.e., a different use of partition from the already existing standard, which then forced them to insert another term into the FreeBSD lexicon
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 07:00:39AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: I would like to find a disk partition (slice in FreeBSD nomenclature) editor that runs under FreeBSD that is able to deal properly with logical partition entries chained from an extended partition entry in the Master Boot Record. fdisk(8) appears to be too primitive to understand logical partitions. I am not clear about what you are trying to do, but fdisk should not be mucking with so-called logical partitions. FreeBSD does not really deal with 'logical' partitions'.Anyway, they are more akin to FreeBSD partitions than slices. Slices are the primary division and partitions are the subdivisions.fdisk handles creating slices and MBRs. For partitions you use bsdlabel and it handles the boot record that the MBR hands control off to. Until now I have gotten by with a stand-alone partition editor, but I now need to be able to do such operations without shutting down my FreeBSD system to do them. If anyone knows of such a utiility for use in FreeBSD, please let me know. (Please Cc: me on any replies, too.) Generally, you don't want to mess with slices or in MS terminology primary partitions with the system running - even if you can find a way. jerry Thanks much! Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ** * Internet: bennett at cs.niu.edu * ** * A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army. * *-- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ** ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Sun, 21 Sep 2008 09:25:19 -0400 Jerry McAllister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 07:00:39AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: I would like to find a disk partition (slice in FreeBSD nomenclature) editor that runs under FreeBSD that is able to deal properly with logical partition entries chained from an extended partition entry in the Master Boot Record. fdisk(8) appears to be too primitive to understand logical partitions. I am not clear about what you are trying to do, but fdisk should not be mucking with so-called logical partitions. FreeBSD does not As I wrote already, I do know that fdisk(8) does not understand logical partitions, so forget fdisk. I'm looking for something that does understand them. really deal with 'logical' partitions'.Anyway, they are more akin It certainly does. I've been using them since I first installed FreeBSD 5.2.1 in 2005, and FreeBSD understands them just fine. The FreeBSD boot loader is another matter, but it's probably not big enough to be that smart. to FreeBSD partitions than slices. Slices are the primary division No, they are not. They exist because the design for the Master Boot Record only has four entries, which originally limited one to having no more than four disk partitions. If one needs more partitions than four, then one must use one of the four MBR entries as an entry for the Extended Partition, which anchors a chain of small descriptors that each contain a) a logical partition entry and b) a pointer to the next descriptor in the chain. A disk partition that has a type of 165 (IIRC) is a FreeBSD slice. It matters not whether that partition is a primary partition or a logical partition. The kernel is smart enough to understand the logical partition chain. and partitions are the subdivisions.fdisk handles creating slices A FreeBSD partition is a subdivision of a FreeBSD slice, which is just a disk partition, either primary or logical, of type 165. and MBRs. For partitions you use bsdlabel and it handles the boot record that the MBR hands control off to. Yes, yes. So what? I need something smarter than fdisk, so that I don't have to shut down the system in order to rearrange disk partitions on a disk that does have a logical partition chain. fdisk will wipe out the chain, rather than giving me any way to change the contents of the chain. Part of that chain contains several partitions holding images of another system that I do not wish to lose at this point. Until now I have gotten by with a stand-alone partition editor, but I now need to be able to do such operations without shutting down my FreeBSD system to do them. If anyone knows of such a utiility for use in FreeBSD, please let me know. (Please Cc: me on any replies, too.) Generally, you don't want to mess with slices or in MS terminology primary partitions with the system running - even if you can find a way. Ah, but I do. My current problem is a case in point. I have a drive that I'm not currently using, but that has stuff on it I don't want to lose (e.g., the images of another system). I want to set it up for use. I do not want to shut everything down just so that I can set it up for use. Right now the nine or ten partitions on it include three or four (I don't remember right now) FreeBSD slices. (The FreeBSD slices are further subdivided into FreeBSD partitions, but that is irrelevant because I intend to wipe out their contents anyway.) With the exception of the partitions holding backup images of another system, nothing is arranged on that drive the way I want it arranged now, so I need to be able to rearrange it without disturbing everything else currently running on the system. There are other situations, too, that arise from time to time that I would like to be able to deal with and not have to shut down FreeBSD to do that. Anyway, back to my original question for anyone who can help: does anyone know of a disk partition editor that will allow me to manipulate the logical partitions, as well as the primary partitions, and that runs under FreeBSD? Scott Bennett, Comm. ASMELG, CFIAG ** * Internet: bennett at cs.niu.edu * ** * A well regulated and disciplined militia, is at all times a good * * objection to the introduction of that bane of all free governments * * -- a standing army. * *-- Gov. John Hancock, New York Journal, 28 January 1790 * ** ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Sun, Sep 21, 2008 at 09:19:40AM -0500, Scott Bennett wrote: Ah, but I do. My current problem is a case in point. I have a drive that I'm not currently using, but that has stuff on it I don't want to lose (e.g., the images of another system). I want to set it up for use. I do not want to shut everything down just so that I can set it up for use. Right now the nine or ten partitions on it include three or four (I don't remember right now) FreeBSD slices. (The FreeBSD slices are further subdivided into FreeBSD partitions, but that is irrelevant because I intend to wipe out their contents anyway.) With the exception of the partitions holding backup images of another system, nothing is arranged on that drive the way I want it arranged now, so I need to be able to rearrange it without disturbing everything else currently running on the system. There are other situations, too, that arise from time to time that I would like to be able to deal with and not have to shut down FreeBSD to do that. Anyway, back to my original question for anyone who can help: does anyone know of a disk partition editor that will allow me to manipulate the logical partitions, as well as the primary partitions, and that runs under FreeBSD? Perhaps, if there's some *good* reason why we *shouldn't* want to mess with slices while the system is running, someone can explain why. For instance -- even if I only have one HDD in the system -- we could assume a setup like this: slice / partition /etc/ partition /usr/ partition /var/ partition /usr/home/ slice C:/ slice for MS Windows primary partition Why, for the love of Gob and all that's Wholly, shouldn't I be able to wipe out my MS Windows primary partition, create a BSD slice, and use the extra space for /usr/local/share/ if I suddenly find I need the space? I, too, would like to know if a partition/slice tool such as what Scott seeks exists. In fact, it would be nice to discover such a tool that not only handles partitions/slices, but also logical/BSD partitions. -- Chad Perrin [ content licensed PDL: http://pdl.apotheon.org ] Albert Camus: An intellectual is someone whose mind watches itself. pgp3e3w5Alinp.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
Ah, but I do. My current problem is a case in point. I have a drive that I'm not currently using, but that has stuff on it I don't want to lose (e.g., the images of another system). I want to set it up for use. I do not want to shut everything down just so that I can set it up for use. Right now the nine or ten partitions on it include three or four (I don't remember right now) FreeBSD slices. (The FreeBSD slices are further subdivided into FreeBSD partitions, but that is irrelevant because I intend to wipe out their contents anyway.) With the exception of the partitions holding backup images of another system, nothing is arranged on that drive the way I want it arranged now, so I need to be able to rearrange it without disturbing everything else currently running on the system. There are other situations, too, that arise from time to time that I would like to be able to deal with and not have to shut down FreeBSD to do that. Anyway, back to my original question for anyone who can help: does anyone know of a disk partition editor that will allow me to manipulate the logical partitions, as well as the primary partitions, and that runs under FreeBSD? Perhaps, if there's some *good* reason why we *shouldn't* want to mess with slices while the system is running, someone can explain why. For instance -- even if I only have one HDD in the system -- we could assume a setup like this: slice / partition /etc/ partition /usr/ partition /var/ partition /usr/home/ slice C:/ slice for MS Windows primary partition Why, for the love of Gob and all that's Wholly, shouldn't I be able to wipe out my MS Windows primary partition, create a BSD slice, and use the extra space for /usr/local/share/ if I suddenly find I need the space? I, too, would like to know if a partition/slice tool such as what Scott seeks exists. In fact, it would be nice to discover such a tool that not only handles partitions/slices, but also logical/BSD partitions. -- im not sure but i think i have managed to shrink something with this http://www.gnu.org/software/parted/download.shtml please do read the documentation and disclaimer beforehand ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: looking for a disk partition (slice) editor
On Sunday 21 September 2008 18:50:09 Chad Perrin wrote: Perhaps, if there's some *good* reason why we *shouldn't* want to mess with slices while the system is running, someone can explain why. From geom(4): Several flags are provided for tracing GEOM operations and unlocking pro- tection mechanisms via the kern.geom.debugflags sysctl. All of these flags are off by default, and great care should be taken in turning them on. 0x10 (allow foot shooting) Allow writing to Rank 1 providers. This would, for example, allow the super-user to overwrite the MBR on the root disk or write ran- dom sectors elsewhere to a mounted disk. The implications are obvious. There should be several partition editors in sysutils/*, so the only thing you really need is to set kern.geom.debugflags to 16. A quick scan of gpart(8) man page might have support for logical paritions, but I'm not an expert: add Add a new partition to the partitioning scheme given by geom. The partition begins on the logical block address given by the -b start option. Its size is expressed in logical block numbers and given by the -s size option. The type of the partition is given by the -t type option. Partition types are discussed in the section entitled Partition Types. -- Mel Problem with today's modular software: they start with the modules and never get to the software part. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
