Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:03:05 + Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did not give a clue on this. What's confusing? i386 is for 386 compatible processors - a 32-bit OS for 32-bit processors, which is therefore limited to 2^32 bytes (4GiB) without the PAE workaround. amd64 is for AMD 64 compatible processors operated in 64-bit mode. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] A while back, when a bought my current machine (an Pentium(R) D CPU 3.20GHz Dual core) and was wondering which FreeBSD to install (i386 or amd64), someone advised me that amd64 was better for servers. On a desktop machine, i386 would be a better. As far as ports are concerned, this makes sence since some (or a lot, I don't know) ports (nvidia driver is a classic) do not compile on, or don't have versions for amd64. So, I did an SMP/i386 install. I cannot say I regret it since everything runs absolutely smooth and fast here. On the tecnical side (not practical) was it correct to give up 64 bit processing? -- ** //| //| Mario Lobo // |// | http://www.ipad.com.br // // ||| FreeBSD since 2.2.8 - 100% Rwindows-free ** ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I did an SMP/i386 install. I cannot say I regret it since everything runs absolutely smooth and fast here. On the tecnical side (not practical) was it correct to give up 64 bit processing? This is a question to which there is no simple answer, other than 'It depends.' What it depends on are such things as: * software compatibility with 32 or 64 bit system * what application load you require * how large the disk and memory structures you're dealing with are * how much RAM you have You'll find that programs like databases that have to do large amounts of IO benefit greatly from being on a 64bit system, especially if that system is fully populated with memory and disks. On the other hand, really compute-intensive programs can often gain on a 32bit system by virtue of being able to fit more 32bit sized objects into cache RAM. Desktops tend to be run at 32bit because of software compatibility problems. Machines with Nvidia graphics cards need to be 32bit in order to use the Nvidia accelerated graphics driver. As it is, for your server it seems that you have achieved that happy performance level of fast enough. Anything else is just gravy. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFHBoKV8Mjk52CukIwRCNgRAJ4vB8AhlbMtTsenzX+A1RvUdGTjZwCdFiND 2LLzNVMlNYjuZalUsUXyeEc= =jEbr -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On Friday 05 October 2007, Matthew Seaman wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, I did an SMP/i386 install. I cannot say I regret it since everything runs absolutely smooth and fast here. On the tecnical side (not practical) was it correct to give up 64 bit processing? This is a question to which there is no simple answer, other than 'It depends.' What it depends on are such things as: * software compatibility with 32 or 64 bit system * what application load you require * how large the disk and memory structures you're dealing with are * how much RAM you have You'll find that programs like databases that have to do large amounts of IO benefit greatly from being on a 64bit system, especially if that system is fully populated with memory and disks. On the other hand, really compute-intensive programs can often gain on a 32bit system by virtue of being able to fit more 32bit sized objects into cache RAM. Desktops tend to be run at 32bit because of software compatibility problems. Machines with Nvidia graphics cards need to be 32bit in order to use the Nvidia accelerated graphics driver. As it is, for your server it seems that you have achieved that happy performance level of fast enough. Anything else is just gravy. Cheers, Matthew I have both types running (dual-core servers as 64 and dual-core desktops at 32). I was just curious as to what would happen if the roles were reversed. You sure cleared that up Thanks for the confirmation ! -- ** //| //| Mario Lobo // |// | http://www.ipad.com.br // // ||| FreeBSD since 2.2.8 - 100% Rwindows-free ** ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On 9/29/07, RW [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:03:05 + Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did not give a clue on this. What's confusing? i386 is for 386 compatible processors - a 32-bit OS for 32-bit processors, which is therefore limited to 2^32 bytes (4GiB) without the PAE workaround. amd64 is for AMD 64 compatible processors operated in 64-bit mode. First of all there are several possible 64 bit intel like processors to choose from for example unless one reads carefully ia64 looks like what you want. Second of all in many peoples minds (including mine) we are used to there being subtle diffs between AMD and intel for the same class of processor thus would naturally think if it was lableb amd64 it is for Advanced Micro Devices processors only... a better name would be 64bit_x86 or something like that --Aryeh ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
oops (was Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64))
well the procedure *ALMOST* worked turns out that sysinstall clobbers any unmodified bsdlabels (bug?) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: oops (was Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64))
On 2007-09-30 07:24, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: well the procedure *ALMOST* worked turns out that sysinstall clobbers any unmodified bsdlabels (bug?) Which 'procedure' would that be? You haven't quoted anything from the previous messages, and your mailer hasn't included an In-Reply-To header to help us track down previous posts of the same thread by searching the list archives. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On Sun, 30 Sep 2007 06:55:15 + Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Second of all in many peoples minds (including mine) we are used to there being subtle diffs between AMD and intel for the same class of processor thus would naturally think if it was lableb amd64 it is for Advanced Micro Devices processors only... Architectures don't differ subtly, if they did we would have hundreds. That's why we have cpu-type variants within each architecture. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Currently I have done a build/installworld build/install/kernel using a i386 CPUTYPE (w/ SMP and APIC set in the kernel (I am using the default sys/i386/conf/GENERIC) do I need to change this to amd64 for a intel duo e6850? (I have had several seemingly unrelated problems that no one seems to be able to reproduce)... btw it is a P35 chipset It should work fine with either. With large amounts of memory (over 4 gigabytes), amd64 will be better. There are a few (mostly desktop-only) ports that will run on i386 but not on amd64. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did not give a clue on this. --Aryeh On 9/29/07, Lowell Gilbert [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Currently I have done a build/installworld build/install/kernel using a i386 CPUTYPE (w/ SMP and APIC set in the kernel (I am using the default sys/i386/conf/GENERIC) do I need to change this to amd64 for a intel duo e6850? (I have had several seemingly unrelated problems that no one seems to be able to reproduce)... btw it is a P35 chipset It should work fine with either. With large amounts of memory (over 4 gigabytes), amd64 will be better. There are a few (mostly desktop-only) ports that will run on i386 but not on amd64. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On 9/29/07, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did not give a clue on this. Please don't top-post. Anyway, if you're not seeing all 4G, then you are most likely running an i386 kernel/release and not amd64. In order to use 4G on a 32-bit (i386) install, you need to include: options PAE In your kernel config. Note that memory access with PAE is much slower than if you were running a native amd64 kernel/install. Regards, Josh ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
Please don't top-post. Anyway, if you're not seeing all 4G, then you are most likely running an i386 kernel/release and not amd64. In order to use 4G on a 32-bit (i386) install, you need to include: options PAE I already tried that and it barfed on a cast in adavsys.c (forget what subdir) and no amount of hand editing corrected it (generated file?). That is why I was asking if a in place upgrade to amd64 native was possible ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On 9/29/07, Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Please don't top-post. Anyway, if you're not seeing all 4G, then you are most likely running an i386 kernel/release and not amd64. In order to use 4G on a 32-bit (i386) install, you need to include: options PAE I already tried that and it barfed on a cast in adavsys.c (forget what subdir) and no amount of hand editing corrected it (generated file?). That is why I was asking if a in place upgrade to amd64 native was possible I think you need to start from the scratch to use AMD64 arch. -- Regards, -Abdullah Ibn Hamad Al-Marri Arab Portal http://www.WeArab.Net/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 5. Mount the x86 disk/partition 6. Copy /usr/obj (and /usr/src for good measure) from the amd partition to the x48 7. Reboot with x86 partition 8. Make installkernel/installworld mergemaster on x86 partition 9. Now the non-ports section OS is amd64 10. pkg_del /var/db/pkg/*; rm -rf /usr/ports/ /usr/local 11. Reftp ports.tar.gz and rebuild all the ports (I have about 10 top level ports installed the rest are dependicies so this straight forward) So does it work? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 at 18:21 -, [EMAIL PROTECTED] confabulated: Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 5. Mount the x86 disk/partition 6. Copy /usr/obj (and /usr/src for good measure) from the amd partition to the x48 7. Reboot with x86 partition 8. Make installkernel/installworld mergemaster on x86 partition 9. Now the non-ports section OS is amd64 10. pkg_del /var/db/pkg/*; rm -rf /usr/ports/ /usr/local 11. Reftp ports.tar.gz and rebuild all the ports (I have about 10 top level ports installed the rest are dependicies so this straight forward) So does it work? Keep in mind, in your step 10, the OP will be removing more than just stuff from installed packages/ports if you 'rm -rf /usr/local'. If anything was built/installed manually from a source archive, for instance. -- _|_ (_| | ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA256 Aryeh Friedman wrote: Would the following procedure work to do an inplace upgrade: 1. Download the amd64 iso 2. Install it on a spare disk/partition 3. Do a cvsup on it's /usr/src 4. Make buildworld/buildkernel 4.5 Install the updated kernel on the spare disk, reboot, then do the usual installworld stuff to verify that the amd64 world you built works correctly. 5. Mount the x86 disk/partition 6. Copy /usr/obj (and /usr/src for good measure) from the amd partition to the x48 No need to do this. If you're booted from your temporary amd64 root and have your original i386 root+world mounted at eg /mnt/i386/ then you can do this: cd /usr/src make installkernel installworld DESTDIR=/mnt/i386 mergemaster -D /mnt/i386 However you'ld better have done a test reboot with the new amd64 kernel before installing it like this -- if the new kernel won't boot then the commands above will have very effectively hosed your system such that the only way back is to recover from backup. 7. Reboot with x86 partition 8. Make installkernel/installworld mergemaster on x86 partition No need to do 7 and 8 -- just reboot here. You'll end up with an amd64 system trying to run a bunch of i386 ports -- probably best to have temporarily commented out large parts of /etc/rc.conf around step (6) to keep things a little more sane. Or just reboot to single user mode, and do all of the ports recompiling in single user. 9. Now the non-ports section OS is amd64 10. pkg_del /var/db/pkg/*; rm -rf /usr/ports/ /usr/local 11. Reftp ports.tar.gz and rebuild all the ports (I have about 10 top level ports installed the rest are dependicies so this straight forward) No need to blow away /usr/ports -- it's the same for all architectures after all, plus you would have to re-download all the source tarballs too. No need to completely blow away /usr/local either -- unless you've got a lot of other software not installed from ports. Not blowing away /usr/local means that your config files, web content etc. should still be there, and usually there's little or nothing to change in that sort of stuff between i386 and amd64. cd /var/db/pkg pkg_delete * cd /usr/ports/foo/bar make install etc... Other things to consider -- are you running any databases -- MySQL, Postgres, LDAP, that sort of thing? In which case you should dump out the DB contents to some device independant format before you start. I can't say for certain, but it's quite possible that there will be architecture dependant binary data structures used by that sort of program, which could mean you would have to reload your data into a fresh install of the application. So does it work? Don't see why not. The plan looks quite workable to me. This is a major operation however, and will take all day even if it goes smoothly. Plus you're at quite high risk of rendering your system so completely banjaxed that your only recourse is to recover from backup. So make sure you've got good backups. Cheers, Matthew - -- Dr Matthew J Seaman MA, D.Phil. 7 Priory Courtyard Flat 3 PGP: http://www.infracaninophile.co.uk/pgpkey Ramsgate Kent, CT11 9PW -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v2.0.4 (FreeBSD) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFG/qK+8Mjk52CukIwRCKPmAJ0T0kmuyLnTL97cfJ1Sh+wAc/L61ACgj/R1 sYRHeSIKWwapAIp59SMLaAg= =yg2W -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
2. Install it on a spare disk/partition How do I force sysinstall to only slice and install on the spare partition (don't have a spare disk) --Aryeh ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: what cpu type to use for a intel duo e6850 (i386 or amd64)
On Sat, 29 Sep 2007 16:03:05 + Aryeh Friedman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have more then 4gb and was wondering why it didn't all show up is there anyway to do a in place upgrade (I have a lot of user data)... also someone should think about changing the naming on the iso/cpu types since 20 years of industry experience (15 with FreeBSD) and reading hardware.txt did not give a clue on this. What's confusing? i386 is for 386 compatible processors - a 32-bit OS for 32-bit processors, which is therefore limited to 2^32 bytes (4GiB) without the PAE workaround. amd64 is for AMD 64 compatible processors operated in 64-bit mode. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
