Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Matthew Macy
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:55 PM Doug Hardie wrote: > > I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that > listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has > not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so > t

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Peter Jeremy
On 2018-Oct-04 08:44:11 +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: >Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly >is the burden here? As various others have stated, this isn't true. All the code in FreeBSD has an ongoing maintenance cost and is an impediment to adding new feature

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Pete French
On 04/10/2018 20:54, Doug Hardie wrote: I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be chan

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Doug Hardie
I have a number of production servers that only have bge and I don't see that listed in either category. None of them are running FreeBSD 12 yet as it has not been released. Also there are some with rl. Those are add-on boards so they could be changed, but would require extensive effort as th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Cy Schubert
In message <11826345-1b82-46cb-894c-e567725f8...@bway.net>, Charles Sprickman v ia freebsd-fcp writes: > > > > On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > > > > I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, a > nd sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Joel Dahl
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 12:23:17PM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > > > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has men

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
>FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) Can I open a FCP to rename FCP to FBS (for FreeBSD BikeShed) ? Guys... most if not all of these emails could have been sent to directly Brooks without Cc'ing four mailing lists. Then Brooks could revise his tallies and

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Charles Sprickman via freebsd-stable
> On Oct 4, 2018, at 11:52 AM, Cy Schubert wrote: > > I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, and > sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this is my inventory for which I > can test and am willing to help out with. Add iwn and ath too. I also have a stack

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Alex McKeever
PowerPC is a split between Gigabit and Megabit Ethernet, I hope those drivers aren’t getting removed. Get Outlook for iOS On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:13 PM -0400, "Andrea Venturoli via freebsd-stable" wrote: On 10/4/18 7:38 P

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Eugene Grosbein
04.10.2018 21:26, Mark Linimon wrote: > You can buy used core i5 laptops for around $20 if you shop around. And plus even more for overseas delivery. ___ freebsd-stable@freebsd.org mailing list https://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-stable T

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Ian Lepore
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:58 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 1

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 12:18 PM Eugene Grosbein wrote: > 05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > > > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD sy

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Eugene Grosbein
05.10.2018 0:38, Warner Losh wrote: > I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, > sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and > which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. vr(4) mentioned in the STAY list or else I

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Eugene Grosbein
04.10.2018 23:22, Brooks Davis wrote: > In an effort to save some email, we will be moving rl(4) to the list of > drivers to STAY as it has proved itself to be popular. A few others > appear to be well on their way so keep the reports coming. And ste(4) please, as these are hardly replaceable tw

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Andrea Venturoli via freebsd-stable
On 10/4/18 7:38 PM, Warner Losh wrote: I'd also suggest that rl stands in stark contrast to the cs, wb, sn, smc, sf, tl, tx and vr drivers, which nobody has mentioned in this thread, and which I doubt are in use in any FreeBSD system of any age today. I still have a vr integrated on an old Mot

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Ian Lepore
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:47 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 11:38 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > > > > > > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Ian Lepore
On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > wrote: > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to B

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 11:26 AM Ian Lepore wrote: > On Thu, 2018-10-04 at 10:21 -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan > > wrote: > > > > > > > > tech-lists wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it i

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 10:15 AM Michelle Sullivan wrote: > tech-lists wrote: > > > > I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. > > > > I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as > far as I can see is just the messenger. > Absent good data, o

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Brooks Davis
>>> Please direct replies to freebsd-arch <<< A few points of clarification: Rod correctly points out that this message makes it look like the FCP is a done deal as written. This is not the case and we welcome feedback on the entire proposal. IMO, soliciting input on the list of drivers along w

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:59 AM Rodney W. Grimes < freebsd-...@pdx.rh.cn85.dnsmgr.net> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > > wrote: > > > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are a

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Michelle Sullivan
tech-lists wrote: I'm astonished you're considering removing rl given how common it is. I'll second that comment - though no disrespect to Brooks. Brooks as far as I can see is just the messenger. -- Michelle Sullivan http://www.mhix.org/ ___ f

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Cy Schubert
People need to submit patches then. OTOH, they can all be moved to ports. IMO, when pkgbase becomes a reality, much of this will become moot. People will be able to mix and match base and ports packages. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this ol

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Rodney W. Grimes
> On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert > wrote: > > > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > > including wireless, currently installed here. > > > > There's an iflib man page that's a

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 9:46 AM Cy Schubert wrote: > I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not > scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, > including wireless, currently installed here. > There's an iflib man page that's a decent place to st

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Cy Schubert
I have rl, fxp, xl, dc, bge (which I have an uncommitted patch for), nfe, and sk. Not all are scheduled for removal but this is my inventory for which I can test and am willing to help out with. Add iwn and ath too. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. A

RE: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Cy Schubert
I'm willing to help out with rl(4) as I have one here. Others, not scheduled for removal, that I can help one way or another are are NICs, including wireless, currently installed here. --- Sent using a tiny phone keyboard. Apologies for any typos and autocorrect. Also, this old phone only suppor

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Alexey Dokuchaev
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:43:33AM -0600, Warner Losh wrote: > As far as I know, none of the drivers listed could do 1Gbps. Right. My point was that original proposal put 10/100 drivers into one basket, which is IMHO not fair: 10Mbps cards are rarely seen and used, 100mbps are not, just like 1000

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 8:40 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +, Mark Linimon wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > > one in a very long time) but

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Alexey Dokuchaev
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 02:26:44PM +, Mark Linimon wrote: > On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > > are in fact 100. > >

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Rick Macklem
Warner Losh wrote: [lots of stuff snipped] >That's why that one way to get the driver off the list is to convert to >iflib. That greatly reduces the burden by centralizing all the stupid, >common things of a driver so that we only have to change one place, not >dozens. I can probably do this for b

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Mark Linimon
On Thu, Oct 04, 2018 at 08:44:11AM +, Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen > one in a very long time) but 100 are omnipresent and most of my NICs > are in fact 100. Sigh. If you really plan to still be using i386 and 10/100 ether in 2024

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Poul-Henning Kamp
In message , Warner Losh writes: >Most of these drivers have had dozens or hundreds of commits each over the >years to keep up with the API changes. This acts as a tax on innovation >because it's such a pain in the back side to change all the drivers in the >tree. As one who has been th

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Warner Losh
On Thu, Oct 4, 2018 at 2:45 AM Alexey Dokuchaev wrote: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. What exactly > is the burden here? > I believe that characterization is incorrect. There's a burden. And it's death of a thousand cuts. And many of those cuts have been inflicted

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Dag-Erling Smørgrav
Alexey Dokuchaev writes: > Looking at the commits they require near zero maintenance. Please do not confuse “nobody is maintaining them” with “they don't need maintenance”, because they do. And please assume good faith. Brooks asked for people to speak up if they care about some of the drivers

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Christoph Moench-Tegeder
## Alexey Dokuchaev (da...@freebsd.org): > > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 > > Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't > seen one in a very long time)

FreeBSD 12 PowerPC won’t boot at all.

2018-10-04 Thread Alex McKeever
Subject says it all, that and it inverts the boot selector when selected. Tested it on my eMac G4 1.25 GHz (Retail). Last version of FreeBSD that works for me is 11.1, as 11.2 doesn’t boot all the way (hangs on cryptosoft0) Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone ___

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread tech-lists
On 03/10/18 22:05, Brooks Davis wrote: We are solictiting feedback on the list of drivers to be excepted from removal. The current list of drivers slated for REMOVAL is: ae, bfe, bm, cs, dme, ed, ep, ex, fe, pcn, rl, sf, smc, sn, ste, tl, tx, txp, vx, wb, xe Please do not remove rl. I have

Re: 11.2-RELEASE panics with a bit of load

2018-10-04 Thread Meowthink
Hi Rainer, I do noticed that the default vfs.zfs.arc_max seems too aggressive, as it will cause tings like rsync swapping in and out, esp. on configs having 32GB RAM, and smaller. So if a reduced arc_max works, I'd suggest you check your swap device. Some SSDs are known to have issues under huge I

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Trev
On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +, Brooks Davis wrote: FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 and remove them in FreeBSD 13 to reduce the burden of maintaining and improving the network stack

Re: FCP-0101: Deprecating most 10/100 Ethernet drivers

2018-10-04 Thread Alexey Dokuchaev
On Wed, Oct 03, 2018 at 09:05:16PM +, Brooks Davis wrote: > FCP-01010 (https://github.com/freebsd/fcp/blob/master/fcp-0101.md) > outlines a plan to deprecate most 10/100 Ethernet drivers in FreeBSD 12 Holy shit! OK I guess I can understand removing 10 (I personally haven't seen one in a very

Re: 11.2-RELEASE panics with a bit of load

2018-10-04 Thread rainer
Am 2018-10-04 05:53, schrieb Holger Kipp: Dear Rainer, if no one else is experiencing these errors, then it is probably a hardware error. I had once encountered problems with incompatible memory (combination of memory (ok with other boards) and board (ok with other memory) did not work properly)