Re: bhyve - ESXi comparison part 2

2014-01-31 Thread Peter Grehan

Hi Andrea,

 Here comes the part 2 of our bhyve - ESXi comparison.

 Excellent work :)

 My take is that there is more general hypervisor overhead with bhyve. 
Given that both user and system times from the benchmark are almost 
uniformally larger for bhyve in all tests points to this. There has been 
work in CURRENT to allow the host to have a much lower clock, which 
could reduce hopefully a large piece of that overhead.


 The 20 x single CPU benchmark is really an ESXi vs FreeBSD filesystem 
test - the user/system times show the same penalty as in the first 
benchmark.


 The final benchmark points to how effective the ESXi scheduler is 
under heavy load and with multiprocessor guests. I suspect it goes to 
great lengths to avoid the 'lockholder preemption problem' - this is 
pointed to by the fact that the -P option with bhvye allows it to now 
complete the test, along with the large amount of time accounted as 
system time.


later,

Peter.
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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Łukasz Wąsikowski
W dniu 2014-01-28 12:18, Andrea Brancatelli pisze:

 We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
 want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t :-)
 
 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/
 
 I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!
 
 Thanks for your time.

You've wrote:


BHyVe took 332 seconds
VMWare took 313 seconds

The difference is about 106.7%.

I think that the correct conclusion should state: if we assume VMware's
time as a reference than BHyVe was 6.7% slower (not 106.7%). And it
should be 6,41% really :)

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Matthias Gamsjager
And lets not forget the head start vmware has (bhyve is what? 1-2 years
old?) and the size of it. Less then 1mb in code.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Łukasz Wąsikowski
luk...@wasikowski.netwrote:

 W dniu 2014-01-28 12:18, Andrea Brancatelli pisze:

  We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
  want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t :-)
 
 
 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/
 
  I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!
 
  Thanks for your time.

 You've wrote:


 BHyVe took 332 seconds
 VMWare took 313 seconds

 The difference is about 106.7%.

 I think that the correct conclusion should state: if we assume VMware's
 time as a reference than BHyVe was 6.7% slower (not 106.7%). And it
 should be 6,41% really :)

 --
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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
Yes, I tried to emphasized that both at the beginning and at the end of the
post...


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 12:39 PM, Matthias Gamsjager
mgamsja...@gmail.comwrote:

 And lets not forget the head start vmware has (bhyve is what? 1-2 years
 old?) and the size of it. Less then 1mb in code.


 On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 12:27 PM, Łukasz Wąsikowski luk...@wasikowski.net
  wrote:

 W dniu 2014-01-28 12:18, Andrea Brancatelli pisze:

  We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
  want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t
 :-)
 
 
 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/
 
  I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!
 
  Thanks for your time.

 You've wrote:


 BHyVe took 332 seconds
 VMWare took 313 seconds

 The difference is about 106.7%.

 I think that the correct conclusion should state: if we assume VMware's
 time as a reference than BHyVe was 6.7% slower (not 106.7%). And it
 should be 6,41% really :)

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Łukasz Wąsikowski
W dniu 2014-01-28 12:52, Andrea Brancatelli pisze:

 OK, I changed that, thanks for your feedback, my assumption was
 something like with bhyve it took the 106% of the time it took with
 VMWare, but probably the approach of bhyve being 6% slower is clearer.

I think so too. Thank you for testing! :)

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
Fixed, thanks.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 1:16 PM, Mark Martinec mark.martinec+free...@ijs.si
 wrote:

 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-
 vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/


  the seconds you see is a medium of all the values from the different
 machines


 medium???  A median or an average?


  If you have any question on the datas


 Plural of datum is data, not datas.

   Mark

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
I'd have to find a different workload (compiling a port under linux makes
no sense), but that something I was already thinking about.

Anybody has any idea about that? It must be something that get's done the
same way (so for example if we are compiling it has to be gcc vs. gcc, but
gcc is not the same on the two platforms)...

I don't know...? Any benchmarking suite? But I don't want to benchmark the
OS that is in the middle...



On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net wrote:

 Am 2014-01-28 13:21, schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:

 Fixed, thanks.


 Could you also compare two instances of Linux inside bhyve and VMware?

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Lars Engels

Am 2014-01-28 13:21, schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:

Fixed, thanks.



Could you also compare two instances of Linux inside bhyve and VMware?
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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
Oh sorry you mean linux vs. linux!

Then yes, I can do that!


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 4:02 PM, Andrea Brancatelli 
abrancate...@schema31.it wrote:

 I'd have to find a different workload (compiling a port under linux makes
 no sense), but that something I was already thinking about.

 Anybody has any idea about that? It must be something that get's done the
 same way (so for example if we are compiling it has to be gcc vs. gcc, but
 gcc is not the same on the two platforms)...

 I don't know...? Any benchmarking suite? But I don't want to benchmark the
 OS that is in the middle...



 On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net wrote:

 Am 2014-01-28 13:21, schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:

 Fixed, thanks.


 Could you also compare two instances of Linux inside bhyve and VMware?

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Neel Natu
Hi Andrea,

On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Andrea Brancatelli
abrancate...@schema31.it wrote:
 Hello everybody.

 We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
 want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t :-)


Looks good to me :-)

 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/

 I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!

 Thanks for your time.


Could you see if you can reproduce the hang with 20VMs with the host
running FreeBSD current?

Another thing you could do is compile the host with KTR and then when
you see the hangexecute the following command on the host: sudo
ktrdump -crto /tmp/ktrdump.out

kernel options to enable KTR:
options KTR
options KTR_ENTRIES=(4*1024*1024)
options KTR_MASK=(KTR_GEN)

best
Neel

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
Hello Peter,

unfortunately we've been a bit sloppy in tracking the time output because
initially it was just an internal test, thus we don't have the details.

We're setting up a new round of tests we'll run tomorrow and we'll track
user/system/real in a more precise way; I will also publish a graph with
the three stacked piles.

Hyperthreading should hopefully be enable on the host, frankly I didn't
check it out, I will tomorrow.

KVM and QEMU are a bit out of our scope, so we didn't have plans for that.
If I can fine some spare time we'll try.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:10 PM, Peter Grehan gre...@freebsd.org wrote:

 Hi Andrea,


  We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe
 you want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of
 sh!t :-)


  Looks good to me :) Thanks for running the tests.

  Would you be able to list the command options you used with bhyve when
 running these tests ?

  What I couldn’t really understand (but that’s something not related
 to bhyve or VMWare) is how a multiprocessor machine is slower than a
 singleprocessor machine in doing the compilation… any idea?


  Is hyper-threading enabled on your system ? If not, then with a host only
 having 2 CPUs and a 2 vCPU guest, there isn't as much opportunity to
 overlap host i/o threads with vCPU threads.

  It would be interesting to see your time results when running bhyve to
 show %user/%system etc - that may give an indication of how much time is
 spent on 'overhead' CPU usage as opposed to pure vCPU usage.

  20 VM – 2 CPUs – 2GB RAM

  Interesting result to say the least :)

  I'll try and repro this and see if it's something simple. At first guess
 I'd say it's the classic 'lock-holder-preemption' issue that the ESXi
 scheduler has a lot of smarts to avoid.

  Another interesting test would be Qemu/KVM VMs on Linux to see if it has
 the same issue.

 later,

 Peter.




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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
Unfortunately these are pre-production environments thus installing
something fancy wasn't in our scope.

If I can allocate some time and some hardware I'll try to.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:49 PM, Neel Natu neeln...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi Andrea,

 On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:18 AM, Andrea Brancatelli
 abrancate...@schema31.it wrote:
  Hello everybody.
 
  We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
  want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t :-)
 

 Looks good to me :-)

 
 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/
 
  I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!
 
  Thanks for your time.
 

 Could you see if you can reproduce the hang with 20VMs with the host
 running FreeBSD current?

 Another thing you could do is compile the host with KTR and then when
 you see the hangexecute the following command on the host: sudo
 ktrdump -crto /tmp/ktrdump.out

 kernel options to enable KTR:
 options KTR
 options KTR_ENTRIES=(4*1024*1024)
 options KTR_MASK=(KTR_GEN)

 best
 Neel

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
OK, tomorrow I'll check.

Today we tried the standard compile approach, compiling PERL to have
something that would work at least a few minutes.

To give you a fast anticipation, debian on bhyve took 2 minutes 23, while
debian on vmware took 2 minutes and 7 seconds.

Will update my post tomorrow morning with more details.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:39 PM, Michael Berman 
michael.ber...@tidalscale.com wrote:

 parsec and stresslinux may be of interest.

 On 1/28/14, 7:02 AM, Andrea Brancatelli abrancate...@schema31.it
 wrote:

 I'd have to find a different workload (compiling a port under linux makes
 no sense), but that something I was already thinking about.
 
 Anybody has any idea about that? It must be something that get's done the
 same way (so for example if we are compiling it has to be gcc vs. gcc, but
 gcc is not the same on the two platforms)...
 
 I don't know...? Any benchmarking suite? But I don't want to benchmark the
 OS that is in the middle...
 
 
 
 On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 3:57 PM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net
 wrote:
 
  Am 2014-01-28 13:21, schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:
 
  Fixed, thanks.
 
 
  Could you also compare two instances of Linux inside bhyve and VMware?
 
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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Aryeh Friedman
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 11:10 AM, Peter Grehan gre...@freebsd.org wrote:

 Hi Andrea,


  We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe
 you want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of
 sh!t :-)


  Looks good to me :) Thanks for running the tests.

  Would you be able to list the command options you used with bhyve when
 running these tests ?

  What I couldn't really understand (but that's something not related
 to bhyve or VMWare) is how a multiprocessor machine is slower than a
 singleprocessor machine in doing the compilation... any idea?


  Is hyper-threading enabled on your system ? If not, then with a host only
 having 2 CPUs and a 2 vCPU guest, there isn't as much opportunity to
 overlap host i/o threads with vCPU threads.


Depends on how your setting up bhyve for example PetiteCloud limits it to
no more then a 1 to 1 ratio of real to virtual cpu (after playing with
something I will be posting about later today [me and Dee have the policy
of no pronouncements] I am seriously thinking making this n vcpu to 1 real
cpu... what do people think the best way to implement and the right ration
for this is...)


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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Aryeh Friedman
It would be interesting to know to how much and what extent various
fronends (openstack, cloudstack, petitecloud, etc.) effect performence... I
suspect that even though bhyve is slower then VMWare that VMWare's front
end is the cause and not VMWare itself for example I suspect that bhyve
with petitecloud on top would be much faster then vmware or qemu with
openstack or cloudstack.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 6:18 AM, Andrea Brancatelli 
abrancate...@schema31.it wrote:

 Hello everybody.

 We did a very rough comparison betweend BHyVe and VMWare ESXi. Maybe you
 want to give it a read and let me know if I did write a bunch of sh!t :-)


 http://andrea.brancatelli.it/2014/01/28/freebsd-10-0-bhyve-vmware-esxi-5-5-comparison/

 I must say I'm very pleased with BHyVe performances! Very good work!!

 Thanks for your time.

 --




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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Aryeh Friedman
I have observed Ubuntu 12.04 LTS runs faster as a VM under bhyve the in
does on bare metal (networking seems to be one of the key areas here as
well as disk access)


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Lars Engels lars.eng...@0x20.net wrote:

 Am 2014-01-28 13:21, schrieb Andrea Brancatelli:

 Fixed, thanks.


 Could you also compare two instances of Linux inside bhyve and VMware?

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Andrea Brancatelli
That's a lot of interesting input.

Tomorrow we'll rearrange everything and redo all the testing.


On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 9:50 PM, Peter Grehan gre...@freebsd.org wrote:

 Hi Andrea,


  unfortunately we've been a bit sloppy in tracking the time output
 because initially it was just an internal test, thus we don't have the
 details.


  No problems.


  We're setting up a new round of tests we'll run tomorrow and we'll track
 user/system/real in a more precise way; I will also publish a graph with
 the three stacked piles.


  Thanks, that'd be great.

  Some suggestions: if you're not already, I'd recommend using ahci-hd for
 disk images instead of virtio-blk. The AHCI emulation uses a thread for
 block i/o so won't block the VM on reads.
  Also, I'd recommend using a network login to the guest rather than
 running something from the console. The UART emulation in bhyve will result
 in a lot of VM exits, which can impact performance.

 later,

 Peter.




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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Peter Grehan

Tomorrow we'll rearrange everything and redo all the testing.


 One more item: when running the test with 20 x 2-vCPU VMs, make sure 
that the -P option is being used. This forces bhyve to do a vmexit 
when a PAUSE instruction is hit e.g. when the locking code starts 
spinning. This gives the scheduler more opportunity to run something 
else rather than letting the VM go until it's quantum expires.


later,

Peter.

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Re: BHyVe - ESXi comparison

2014-01-28 Thread Michael Dexter
On 1/28/14 4:10 PM, Andrea Brancatelli wrote:
 That's a lot of interesting input.

Do try the ahci-hd VirtIO and may I suggest you update BHyVe to the
current bhyve? It is the first point on the FAQ: http://bhyve.org/faq/

Michael
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