[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #11, bug #14515 (project freeciv): (This would be easier to express in the ruleset if the effects system could combine numbers in more ways than just addition, such as min() and max(). But that's probably a separate bug.) Perhaps an additional field could be added to the effects definition. It could define how the numbers should be combined. But this raises the problem of the order of the effects, i.e [effect_test1] name = test operation = ADD value = 16 [effect_test2] name = test operation = MIN value = 20 [effect_test3] name = test operation = DIV value = 2 depending on the order this could result in min((0 + 16), 20) / 2 = 8 min(0, 20) / 2 + 16 = 26 min((0 / 2), 20) + 16 = 36 ... (and some more combinations) ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #13, bug #14515 (project freeciv): perhaps an additional 'priority' flag could be used? On ruleset load there must be a check that for each effect no priority is duplicated. Furthermore, the effects must be saved in the corresponding order. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Nachricht geschickt von/durch Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Update of bug #14515 (project freeciv): Status: In Progress = Fixed Open/Closed:Open = Closed ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message posté via/par Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Update of bug #14515 (project freeciv): Status: Ready For Test = Fixed Open/Closed:Open = Closed ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message posté via/par Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #6, bug #14515 (project freeciv): Sorry to comment on a closed bug, but there are a couple of loose ends on this subject: Firstly, the docs for S2_1 need the same fix as S2_2/trunk (but the behaviour is fine). I've attached a patch for that. Secondly, the same priority problem affects the civ2 ruleset on S2_2/trunk, which I can easily write a patch for, except: In the civ2 ruleset (unlike the default ruleset), the pollution effects of Hydro/Hoover/Nuclear really are always reduce-to-50%, regardless of whether you have a Factory, Mfg. Plant, neither, or both. However, the Solar Plant behaves the same in civ2 and default ruleset (i.e. no bonus with neither of Factory/Mfg. Plant, 50% with only one, 100% with both). Is that correct? (I don't know the real civ2 rules.) If so, my trunk/civ2 patch will need to fix the Solar help as well; if not, it'll have to fix the behaviour. So, I haven't written the patch yet. (I'm assuming the priority behaviour in the civ2 ruleset isn't a deliberate bug-compatibility decision.) (For completeness: the civ1 ruleset is affected by none of this, as it doesn't have a Solar Plant.) (file #7124) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: plant-doc-fix-S2_1.diffSize:3 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Update of bug #14515 (project freeciv): Status: Fixed = In Progress Open/Closed: Closed = Open ___ Follow-up Comment #7: Reopening this ticket... Firstly, the docs for S2_1 need the same fix as S2_2/trunk (but the behaviour is fine). I've attached a patch for that. We cannot change S2_1 documentation because it would require translation jobs. Is that correct? (I don't know the real civ2 rules.) Me neither, but I think you are right. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message posté via/par Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #8, bug #14515 (project freeciv): We cannot change S2_1 documentation because it would require translation jobs. Boo. Well, I've updated the wiki http://freeciv.wikia.com/index.php?title=Buildings_catalogcurid=1764diff=15079oldid=14601. Me neither, but I think you are right. Attached a patch on the assumption that civ2 Solar Plant should behave like the other Plants. Here's some questionable evidence http://www.mahalo.com/civilization-ii-walkthrough#Solar_Plant for that change. (file #7126) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: plant-consistency-civ2-trunk.diff Size:4 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Update of bug #14515 (project freeciv): Status:None = Ready For Test ___ Follow-up Comment #3: Your patch looks to fix all the issues. However, I'm uncertain about the effect_recycling_center_1 and effect_recycling_center_2. Their value looks tricky. But I tried to find a better way, without success. I will keep this version. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message posté via/par Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #2, bug #14515 (project freeciv): cazfi writes: Yes, it's deliberate rule change. OK, thanks. I'm assuming the principle that you should always get the single best pollution bonus from all your buildings you have, since no-one's objected. So, here's a second version of my patch, that's like the first except that it fixes the documentation to reflect the rule change and addresses the Solar + Recycling + (Factory OR Mfg. Plant) issue in my original patch -- in this case you get a 66% reduction, from the recycling plant. (This would be easier to express in the ruleset if the effects system could combine numbers in more ways than just addition, such as min() and max(). But that's probably a separate bug.) (file #7084) ___ Additional Item Attachment: File name: plant-consistency-bis-trunk.diff Size:10 KB ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Follow-up Comment #1, bug #14515 (project freeciv): This is particularly obvious with Solar Plant -- if you only have a Factory, pollution is only reduced to half, not eliminated. Is this deliberate? If so, the documentation needs patching; if not, the ruleset. Yes, it's deliberate rule change. Obviously documentation has not been updated when rules got changed. ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message sent via/by Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
Update of bug #14515 (project freeciv): Assigned to:None = pepeto ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message posté via/par Gna! http://gna.org/ ___ Freeciv-dev mailing list Freeciv-dev@gna.org https://mail.gna.org/listinfo/freeciv-dev
[Freeciv-Dev] [bug #14515] Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation
URL: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 Summary: Behaviour of hydro/nuclear/solar plants etc doesn't match documentation Project: Freeciv Submitted by: jtn Submitted on: Wednesday 14/10/09 at 00:02 Category: rulesets Severity: 3 - Normal Priority: 5 - Normal Status: None Assigned to: None Originator Email: Open/Closed: Open Release: Discussion Lock: Any Operating System: None Planned Release: None ___ Details: This mainly concerns the Solar Plant in the trunk build, but not entirely. Sorry there are multiple issues here, but they're related. How I got into this: with a trunk build, I noticed that my Solar Plant wasn't eliminating all shield pollution as advertised. I found that my Recycling Center was inhibiting this effect; selling the latter gave the desired effect from the former. Then I dug deeper into the ruleset and found a bunch of what seem to me like inconsistencies. I don't know what the right answers are here yet, but if someone can give a consensus I can write patches. (I was in two minds as to whether to post this here or in the forum. Sorry if I picked wrong.) (1) The effect when a Solar Plant is present in a city at the same time as another pollution-reducing building seems unhelpful. A Solar Plant's pollution effects are neutralised by the presence of any of a Recycling Center, Nuclear Plant, Hydro Plant, or the Hoover Dam -- you get the (almost always, see below) lesser effect of the less advanced building. This is in contrast to the interaction between Recycling Center and (non-solar) Plants, where you get the better (66%) effect from the R.C. I can imagine this being particularly annoying for the Hoover Dam -- if you've got that wonder, Solar Plants are of no use to you and there's nothing you can do about it. (Unless that case is a deliberate balancing strategy? If so, it should be documented, and preferably, starting to build a Solar Plant should be disallowed.) (2) More generally, the priority of the various plants in effects.ruleset seems inconsistent. For instance, Hydro Plant wins over Power Plant wrt Output_Bonus, but Power Plant wins over Solar Plant. All the Output_Bonuses are the same, so this has no effect on gameplay, but if they followed a consistent ordering then is_building_replaced(), and hence the city dialog, could mark buildings as redundant, which is cosmetic but nice (it's a reminder that you should consider selling these useless buildings). The attached patch (for discussion purposes) addresses points (1) and (2) in the default ruleset, by establishing consistent priority orders: - for Output_Bonus, in order of increasing priority: Power Plant; Hydro Plant; Nuclear Plant; Hoover Dam; Solar Plant. - for Pollu_Prod_Pct, in order of increasing priority: Hydro Plant; Nuclear Plant; Hoover Dam; Recycling Center Solar Plant. The effect of the latter is that you almost always get the biggest single pollution bonus of your buildings, but never a cumulative effect. (If desired, it would be possible to arrange the opposite effect -- not getting a pollution bonus from a higher tech until you actually get rid of your dirty, expensive old Power Plant. Hoover Dam would need special treatment, though, and it's not obvious that it adds to gameplay.) The patch leaves one lacuna -- if you have a Solar Plant, a Recycling Center, and only one of Factory and Mfg. Plant, you get 50% pollution bonus from your Solar Plant rather than the better 66% you could get from your Recycling Center. I could also fix this, but want to settle point (3) below first. (3) The help for each Plant claims a single blanket pollution reduction (e.g., Nuclear Plant reduces the amount of pollution generated by production in a city by 50% and Solar Plant eliminates all pollution generated by production in a city), but in fact you only get the advertised effect when you have both a Factory and a Mfg. Plant -- when you have only one, you get half the pollution effect (e.g., 25% for Nuclear Plant). This is particularly obvious with Solar Plant -- if you only have a Factory, pollution is only reduced to half, not eliminated. Is this deliberate? If so, the documentation needs patching; if not, the ruleset. (This part also affects S2_1.) ___ File Attachments: --- Date: Wednesday 14/10/09 at 00:02 Name: plant-consistency-trunk.diff Size: 5kB By: jtn Tweak effects.ruleset so that better Plants (etc) have precedence http://gna.org/bugs/download.php?file_id=6987 ___ Reply to this item at: http://gna.org/bugs/?14515 ___ Message sent
