[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-30 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #22, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Understood, thanks Marko. I wasn't sure what to check in order to follow your
request on the dev list. I'll first check that link in the future.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-25 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Follow-up Comment #21, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Since results of update-po benefit only translators, I have not been
committing them to Freeciv svn every time. Instead I make them available for
translators at http://www.cazfi.net/freeciv/translations/

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-21 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #20, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Cool, thanks Marko! It feels cool to have my first patch integrated into
Freeciv...

I wasn't sure if you were going to wait to run update-po until after
committing the patches for the other clients (#1211, #1212, #1213). But the
four patch tickets - especially this one - make some pretty big changes to
translatable strings.

Just thought I'd mention it since you'd requested on the dev list that we
mention when patches contain changes to translatable strings.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-18 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Update of patch #1188 (project freeciv):

  Status: In Progress = Done   
 Open/Closed:Open = Closed 


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-16 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #18, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Hi, Marko and Matthias. Thank you both again for taking time to review my
patches and for your comments.

I've created a new patch, which rolls both stages into a single patch. (I
figured that this was less confusing than trying to keep the menu reorg and
modifier key changes as two separate stages).

These are the only two patches needed for the GTK client:
* (just added): keys_gtk_r15875_v03.diff
* file #6195: helpdata.txt.diff

Other clients:
* patch #1211: SDL
* patch #1212: Windows native
* patch #1213: XAW

I hope that I've been able to address both your comments either by
modifications or by explanation. Please let me know if you'd like any further
changes (e.g. Marko if you don't agree with my reasoning behind the position
of the Edit and Civilization menus). I'd be happy to change my patches to
meet the requirements for acceptance into Freeciv.

(file #6457)
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Additional Item Attachment:

File name: keys_gtk_r15875_v03.diff   Size:37 KB


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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-13 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #16, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

 I use the new menu structure. It is a little bit strange first - I expect
tax setting in the game menu.

I can understand the initial confusion. I'd agree to an extent, since I
myself am still not sure this is the most optimal structure - but I think
some of the strange feeling comes from previous experience (Tax Rates were in
Edit previously, also not optimal).

The idea is to separate actions that affect the game structure (i.e.
preferences, etc.) and the game in progress (city list, tax rates, etc).
Hence, your civilization (the overarching condition of the collection of
cities, etc).

I laid out my reasons much better before, but I also would like to repeat
that if this set of patches are accepted, they'd be the basis for future
evolution rather than the end-all be-all. Which would include integrating
feedback from users like that.

 One message I get:
 
 Can't set sensitivity for non-existent menu main/Civilization/Tax
Rates.
 
 
 It is repeated quit often for the client

OK, I'll take a look into that and make a revised patch. I was going to make
one other revision to bring it in line with the patches I submitted for other
clients anyway.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-13 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #17, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

 I use the new menu structure. It is a little bit strange first - I expect
tax setting in the game menu.

Speaking of my incorporating feedback, I'd definitely like to take the
opportunity to learn your other feelings. This first round was very focused
on the unit selection and manipulation (and hopefully that shows up well :-)
). So I'm curious to hear if there were problems, suggestions, etc for those.
Or anything else - user testing is iterative, and it's always good to hear
feedback even if it's only testing on a small group... :-)

(Note that there is one additional patch that I need to make for drop
paratrooper/clean pollution, but I was waiting to do that until I had a
better feeling of whether this patch would be accepted. I'm at least feeling
hopeful, so I'll add that one as well this weekend.)

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-12 Thread Matthias Pfafferodt

Follow-up Comment #15, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

I use the new menu structure. It is a little bit strange first - I expect tax
setting in the game menu.

One message I get:

 Can't set sensitivity for non-existent menu main/Civilization/Tax Rates.

It is repeated quit often for the client.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-09 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #13, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Hi, Marko. Just wanted to check whether you still wanted me to modify the
menu order, or if you were okay with the order as in my patches.

As I said earlier, I'm happy to make your requested modifications now. As I
mentioned below, my rationale for the menu order in these patches is that
it's closer to the prior 2.x menu order (internal consistency) and
recommended order for general-use applications (external consistency).

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-09 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Follow-up Comment #14, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

I'd like to hear third opinion. If we don't get one and there's only my
opinion against your opinion, let's go with lesser change - keep it as it is
in your existing patch.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-06 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #11, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

OK, I'll get patches together and put each one in a separate ticket, so that
they can be reviewed independently.

 - Civilization has general settings affecting your whole
 civilization, yet it is next to last menu. I would move it
 second after Game.

I agree that might seem a little odd at first, but its commands affect game
controls, rather than elements of the game itself (views, lists, etc - the
exception is revolution, but tough to say where else to put it at the
moment).

This has worked well for e.g. Photoshop, Illustrator, Flash (development),
which offer palettes and other controls in a similar spot. I've used those
apps regularly, and think it works well overall. But I admit that my same
experience that led me to bring this arrangement in Freeciv may have clouded
my judgment. :-)

 - Edit is not usually needed at all - I would move it after
 all the menus used in normal play, just before Help.

I tried to follow the generally accepted order of menus (File, Edit, View,
Select, Window = Civilization, Help). But this Edit menu is also more
vestigial than useful.

Once the menus are converted to GtkUIManager, it'll be possible to change
top-level items. Then edit mode can gain more menu items, better/more
shortcuts (no conflicts with game menus). That would allow the edit mode
commands to disappear from Edit, and it would make sense to move the others
out and remove Edit completely.

I see this revamp as the start of an iterative process, focusing on unit
management this round. I didn't clean up the other menus as much, because the
final arrangement isn't yet clear in my head and I wanted to avoid too much
moving around during future steps.

That said, I'm more than happy to make your two changes to the patches if you
still see fit. I just wanted to explain my thoughts a bit, in case that showed
a bit more method to my madness... :-)

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-08-06 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #12, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

I just submitted patches for the other clients:
* patch #1211: SDL
* patch #1212: Windows native
* patch #1213: XAW

These three bring the same changes to other clients as the files in this
patch:
* file #6194: (apply first) menu.c.01_reorg.diff
* file #6197: menu.c.02_accels_revised.diff
* file #6195: helpdata.txt.diff

After all patches are applied, update-po should be run to catch the changes
to translatable strings.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-29 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #8, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Wow, Marco. Thanks for the willingness to experiment!

I definitely understand and respect not wanting to make different key usage
in different clients.

I tried to make these changes logical and at the same time not too disruptive
(I don't think anyone would want to have the basic go-to changed to Z :-D
), and tried to think of the other clients while working on the GTK client (I
think I've actually reduced the number of Ctrl-key combinations, nicer for
everyone). So it's entirely logical to want to bring these changes to other
clients, and is my hope as well.

I've looked at the other clients, and I'd be willing and able to create
patches for SDL, XAW and Windows native clients. I'd just change the keys (to
keep consistency between clients) but not the menu layout (so as to avoid
breakage). Then the maintainers for the two other clients with menus (XAW and
Windows) could revise menu structure per the final GTK implementation, as they
saw fit.

I could have those three patches for this weekend; would you be interested?
Would that help get these changes in for 2.1?

Here's my reasoning for hoping to get my changes in for 2.1:

0 In the GTK client as it stands, there are new keys for selecting units, and
the editing mode is implemented (both new since 2.0) - my patches affect both.
I'd love to have my new key structure implemented so that it could get revised
during the 2.1 cycle (more people testing = more input).

0 I'm hoping to move the GTK client's menu to GtkUIManager instead of
GtkItemFactory. This would permit some big UI fixes, potentially also helping
the editor. (Whether implemented in 2.1 or not would depend on the project's
policy for UI changes to released versions, which I'm not familiar with).

I certainly don't want to pressure you, and am happy to follow your decision.
On the other hand, I've been itching for years to get started with this work
(hampered by time but also the old RT bug tracker), so if I sound eager it's
because I am. :-)

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-29 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #9, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Excuse me, I must have a tired brain.

I meant 2.2 where I wrote 2.1 in my previous comment... i.e. hoping to
get these changes into 2.2 before it's branched.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-28 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Follow-up Comment #7, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

 (necessary) refinements
  ^^^

 Drat, I was planning to commit menu restructuring now (well, I have not yet
even investigated or tested the code, but I'm sure we can make it acceptable)
and postpone accelerator changes.

 Problem with accelerator changes is that some work has been done to use same
keys in all clients. Changing them now in one client is not necessarily a good
idea.
 Even though cproc has been less active lately, SDL client in trunk is still
very much usable client. I want to avoid unnecessarily making it incompatible
now, close to S2_2 branching.

 However, after S2_2 is branched, making these changes is not a problem. Then
there is time of whole release cycle to make necessary changes to other
clients - and if nobody makes the change = nobody maintains the clients -
they will be broken by many ways anyway when 2.3 is released.

 So, my current feeling is that this ticket goes forward only after S2_2
branching. Ok?

 I can place patch menu.c.01_reorg.diff and
 menu.c.02_accels_revised.diff in two tickets -
 would you like me to go forward on that?

No need if they have to go in in same commit anyway.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-27 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #6, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Glad to hear the patches worked for you, Marko!

I had split the patch into two patches in order to avoid noise created by
the renaming. That makes it possible to see the basic restructuring
(menu.c.01_reorg.diff) and the (necessary) refinements (to allow shortcuts
to coexist, etc - menu.c.02_accels_revised.diff).

The documentation patch isn't really useful on its own either, and in fact
includes some changes that address prior command changes (by other
developers) which aren't currently shown in the help system.

This was why I've included three patches in one ticket. Moving items around
in the menu and then renaming them is actually an atomic operation - the goal
is a large menu and command redesign.

I can place patch menu.c.01_reorg.diff and menu.c.02_accels_revised.diff
in two tickets - would you like me to go forward on that?

But I'm not sure that there's any other way to reduce the patch size further.
I'd be happy to make changes if you had suggestions, I'm still trying to learn
the process for this project...

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-26 Thread Matthias Pfafferodt

Follow-up Comment #4, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

I tested it - the patches applay fine. I like the
split of the unit commands into 'Unit', 'Work' and
'Combat'.

I only use the standard keys so I can't say
something bout the key selection. The default keys
are the expected ...



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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-26 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Update of patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Category:None = client-gtk-2.0 
  Status:None = In Progress
 Assigned to:None = cazfi  

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Follow-up Comment #5:

 I probably tried patches in wrong order (just looked that menu.c patch is
first one and didn't realize that there was two patches with such a name).

 I prefer small patches each doing just one logical thing. They are much
easier to confirm that way, one part can be committed even if another part is
not (yet) acceptable, if there is problems later it can be pinpointed from
version control to smaller change...
 Also, each patch should go to separate ticket. That way ticket status can be
set to match status of individual patch. If there is several patches in same
ticket and some of them are already committed and others not, ticket is
neither completely unresolved nor resolved.

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-24 Thread Marko Lindqvist

Follow-up Comment #2, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

This patch does not apply cleanly to current menu.c

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-24 Thread John Keller

Follow-up Comment #3, patch #1188 (project freeciv):

Huh, that's odd. menu.c hasn't changed since I made the patches. Maybe I made
an error?

Which patch doesn't work? Did you apply them in order?
(menu.c.01_reorg.diff, menu.c.02_accels_revised.diff, then
helpdata.txt.diff)

menu.c.02_accels.diff (attachment 6196) should be marked as obsolete or
superseded or however Gna marks a patch as old...

I had tried to split the big patch into two logical parts, but maybe it
would be better as a single patch. would you prefer that?

In any case, thanks for taking the time to review it (or at least try ;-) ).

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[Freeciv-Dev] [patch #1188] proposed menu and command key revamp

2009-07-11 Thread John Keller

URL:
  http://gna.org/patch/?1188

 Summary: proposed menu and command key revamp
 Project: Freeciv
Submitted by: jkeller
Submitted on: Saturday 07/11/2009 at 16:56
Category: None
Priority: 5 - Normal
  Status: None
 Privacy: Public
 Assigned to: None
Originator Email: 
 Open/Closed: Open
 Discussion Lock: Any

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Details:

Please note that these patches are revised and updated from a previous ticket
on RT:
  http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40216

That old ticket can be closed as obsolete.

REVISION: The patches in this ticket apply to the latest revision of trunk
(15826) as of this filing.

TRANSLATION: These patches contain changes to translatable strings, so
update-po should be run if/when they are accepted.


BACKGROUND

I've made an attempt to restructure Freeciv's menus in a way that makes sense
for both new users and old hands. I consider myself a casual old-timer,
having played Freeciv for several years, but not every day.

I've always found the single, long Orders menu daunting. Commands are found
in large groups (between dividers), new commands are hard to find when they're
added, and I expect that new users have a very hard time discovering even
common commands (Go to is sixth down in the fourth group).

Having a single, long menu for all unit commands makes it very hard to define
good mnemonics (the underlined letters) which also don't conflict with each
other. The length also leads to putting commands in sub-menus (presumably to
avoid making the Orders menu even longer). But these are hard to target
with the mouse, and hard to use as a way to discover to available commands.

Some accelerators require pressing Control and Shift together, a
hand-twisting exercise for commands that users are likely to use often. Even
more importantly, it's a hurdle for accessibility.

Tear-off menus seem like a great idea, but don't beat the simplicity of
better menu organization and modeless dialog boxes. The typical user (even in
Linux) aren't going to have encountered them elsewhere, and so aren't likely
to discover their use. Instead, I hoped to improve the situation for everyone
and avoid the need for a tear-off menu. The exception was the View menu,
which I would like to revisit in the future.


STRUCTURAL CHANGES

The Game menu, like the File menu in any other program, should really be
thought of as a meta menu. It should handle the principle object (the game)
as a black box, rather acting on the the things contained within the object.
I moved the tax rates and revolution commands to the Reports menu; they have
much more in common with the other items found there.

I renamed the Reports menu to Civilization. While Freeciv isn't a
spreadsheet [1], this menu nonetheless roughly corresponds to the Window
menu in many applications: it's a list of tabs and toolkit windows that apply
to the game as a whole. Using Window would help for external consistency,
but that name is too generic. I think Civilization does a better job of
showing that it contains commands that act on a large scale than Reports,
which to me implies a set of static reports (the presence of the main view
alone shows that the menu items aren't static).

I've only worked on the GTK+ client, since I'm not familiar with any of the
other clients. I realize that these patches would have an impact on the other
clients, too (since the help documentation is common to all). These patches
serve as a proof of concept and, if accepted, my hope is that it would be
easy for the other client maintainers to change their clients to match.


ACCELERATORS

These deserve a special note: I'm very aware that changing these hotkeys is
potentially disruptive and maybe even political. However, I've tried to take
great care to keep the principal accelerators the same.

My main guiding principals:
* try to group together actions with their opposites
  (e.g. Sentry  Unsentry [formerly Wake up others]
   are assigned S and Shift+S)
* try to group together related actions
  (e.g. commands in Select menu)
* try to make simple commands use no modifier
* try to reserve Shift modifier for less-used or
  more-destructive commands

The Select menu commands are new to trunk, so there shouldn't be a lot of
people used to them already. I've based their layout on similar guiding
principals behind Undo, Cut, Copy, Paste in terms of proximity on a QWERTY
keyboard. Also note that all on tile and same type on tile are simply a
Shift modifier apart.


PATCHES

I've split my changes into three patches:

Rearrange the menus (menu.c.01_reorg.diff)
* split up long Orders menu
  - Select menu for selecting units
  - Unit menu for movement and other actions on the unit itself
  - Work menu for actions mostly pertaining to workers/settlers
  - Combat menu for