Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-15 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Perfect. :-) On Jan 14, 2008 10:46 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're right. There you go. Joan 2008/1/15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] : URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-14 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 This transaction appears to have no content So, last patch (for now) for catalan.ruleset in 2.1. Basically, it's the same as the current ruleset, with no translatable strings changed, and: - two more rulers. - removed portuguese from

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-14 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 14, 2008 9:33 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: So, last patch (for now) for catalan.ruleset in 2.1. Basically, it's the same as the current ruleset, with no translatable strings changed, and: [...] It's almost perfect.

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-14 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 This transaction appears to have no content You're right. There you go. Joan 2008/1/15, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 14, 2008 9:33 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 1:17 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 We basically agree. I think the key here is the definition of medieval and catalan. As I understand, medieval in

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 2:27 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] Right, let's forget about present-day politics or the whole thing will get really complicated. History is what it is. Let's leave it like that. If everybody agrees,

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 1:44 PM, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I understand. But... if we were to keep catalan.ruleset as medieval, it

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 8:04 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [...] I have also noticed that one of the cities in the catalan list is not really Catalan. Tolosa (Toulouse, in its French name) was Occitan. Occitans and Catalans were

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-09 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 8, 2008 7:42 AM, Daniel Markstedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone. I propose keeping the Catalan nation in its current Països Catalans form while removing it from the 'medieval' group,

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-08 Thread Daniel Markstedt
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone. I propose keeping the Catalan nation in its current Països Catalans form while removing it from the 'medieval' group, leaving it simply European. Creating a 'cultural' group is a great

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-08 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Daniel Markstedt wrote: Very enlightening discussion. Thanks everyone. Yeah, it was kinda fun spending several hours learning something entirely new to me There are a lot of parallels to arguments over Romans and Greeks and Kurds

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-08 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 And from the point of view of someone who actually has to put up with this kind of historical distortions on a regular basis, it's refreshing to see that dispassionate persons with the will to understand facts can see through all the

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 5, 2008 10:21 PM, Daniel Markstedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 While we're on the topic, I'd like to discuss this: http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=4216 The

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Daniel Markstedt wrote: ... the legit question of whether the Catalonia described in our ruleset existed in the middle ages or not. ... The exact boundaries and title changed from time to time. This article has been around for a

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Trolling indeed, and it's not strange for Spanish radical nationalists to deny Catalonia's nationhood. Having its own dinasty and laws for hundreds of years, and speaking a different language even today doesn't seem to be enough. In

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Our replies crossed paths. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The current catalan.ruleset does NOT represent the medieval counties of Catalonia or the Crown of Aragon. Instead, it represents the Països Catalans, a non-existing nation that some

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Yeah, but the city list in the ruleset DOES contain cities that have never been part of the Principality of Catalonia, or the Region of Catalonia or the current Autonomy. There's even a comment stating: ; This city list does not

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Joan Creus wrote: So, what does the ruleset mean, historically?: the part of the Crown of Aragon settled by Catalan-speaking people (the three maritime kingdoms: Catalonia, Valencia and the Balearic Islands), who have thus the same

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 William Allen Simpson wrote: Which ones? Do they speak Catalan? How did they end up speaking Catalan without ever being part of Catalonia? Autonomous colonies? To clarify my question, our current rule is: An _ancient_ or

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 11:53 AM, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, but the city list in the ruleset DOES contain cities that have

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 6, 2008 12:47 PM, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 William Allen Simpson wrote: Which ones? Do they speak Catalan? How did they end up speaking

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 2008/1/6, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yeah, but the city list in the ruleset DOES contain cities that have never been part of the

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then's the Sardinian city of Alghero (L'Alguer), which was resettled in the 14th century by catalans. Cool. Try what I did for Illyrian, adding dates and alternative names: Scodra (hills, plains,

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 We basically agree. I think the key here is the definition of medieval and catalan. As I understand, medieval in Freeciv is used for a nation that existed at some time, but isn't independent nowadays. Since there isn't a cultural

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 2008/1/6, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED]: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: And then's the Sardinian city of Alghero (L'Alguer), which was resettled in the 14th century

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Joan Creus wrote: ... yes, there is no reason not to have Andorran cities in the ruleset, although Andorra has always been independent, as far as I know. They speak Catalan because it's what was spoken in their area, not because any

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-06 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Yes, it's fascinating how Andorrans manage to navigate the balance of power and remain independent. They have two heads of state (the co-princes): one still is the Bishop of Urgell, and the other is the President of France (Nicolas

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-05 Thread William Allen Simpson
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... IIRC, the geographic features (hills, ocean, etc.) were supposed to be added when the city name explicitly states it, so a city name like Montserrat (meaning Serrated Mount) can get the (hills)

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-05 Thread Daniel Markstedt
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On 1/5/08, William Allen Simpson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... IIRC, the geographic features (hills, ocean, etc.) were supposed to be added when

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-05 Thread Joan Creus
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 This transaction appears to have no content You call that being negative? No way! On the contrary, it's great to get good feedback, particularly from the original author of the ruleset. Guardamar is Guardamar del Segura, one of the four

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-05 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 On Jan 5, 2008 4:38 PM, Joan Creus [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You call that being negative? No way! On the contrary, it's great to get good feedback, particularly from the original author of the ruleset. Actually, I wasn't the original

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-05 Thread Daniel Markstedt
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 While we're on the topic, I'd like to discuss this: http://forum.freeciv.org/viewtopic.php?t=4216 The poster is mainly trolling, but he brings up the legit question of whether the Catalonia described in our ruleset existed in the middle

Re: [Freeciv-Dev] (PR#40001) Update to catalan.ruleset for 2.1

2008-01-04 Thread [EMAIL PROTECTED]
URL: http://bugs.freeciv.org/Ticket/Display.html?id=40001 Thanks, Joan, for improving on the ruleset I worked on quite some time ago. Adding Pau Claris, Salses and Fraga were nice touches, I think. Now, I hate to be negative, BUT... IIRC, the geographic features (hills, ocean, etc.) were