Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Alain M. schrieb: if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice when you upgrade your hw :) He said he does not plan to use VMware. The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI The AudioPCI is seen by Windows and working but it's emulation is not as good as this card would work together with the DOS driver. You need to manually switch the sound card inside the configuration file to sb16, search for it if interested. But still... The SB16 support in VMware is very bad, you can not use it for reliable sound output for existing applications. -mr Alain Santiago Almenara escreveu: Hello! I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the CDROM. Is there any general driver for sound cards? My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS ? Thanks, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: Hi! I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. Okay so you use DOS in real hardware. Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Depends. Modern mainboards use HDA or AC97 for sound. Only modern DOS software like MPXPLAY can use AC97, not sure whether any DOS software can use HDA. In any case, your old games have BUILT-IN drivers which you cannot replace. Either your soundcard is ISA SB16 or SBPro compatible or it is not. There is hope, though: In PCI soundcards which have it, Adlib / OPL3 / FM music will usually work. PCI Soundcards which try to be SB16 / SBPro compatible in hardware often only work on older mainboards (up to K6-2 or PentiumIII?) for DOS, on newer boards they turn into AC97ish-only. However, SBLive / SBPCI typically come with a driver which works like a small dosemu virtual computer: It lets DOS games use your real hardware, but if they try to access the soundcard, they are connected to a simulation which pretends being SB16 while the real sound is forwarded to the actually AC97 hardware of the real SBLive / SBPCI soundcard. Only works with games which are emm386 compatible. Luckily most are. There is also a driver called VSB Virtual SoundBlaster which tries to do the same simulation trick but free (not bundled to soundcards). It only does SB 1.0 afair and only works either without emm386 or with the QEMM variant of it yet. Also, it can only output sound to simple real hardware (printer port Covox, maybe also the internal PC beeper speaker). You are over floating newbies with to many informations and by the way this VSB thing is for a non-programmer useful for almost nothing. Still it would be a good starting point for generic virtual soundcards: Using code from dosemu, bochs, qemu, alsa-project etc, one could make VSB support SB16 / SBPro simulation as input and output to real AC97 / HDA. It could also be converted to be MS emm386 or free JEMM386 compatible. That's a topic I summarized some time ago http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.DevelSound That said, it would need helpers and/or money to be done. I don't think it will even happen that *someone* from *outside* the community will ever take this challenge. Even if you post at some service auction site (rentacoder or whatever) I highly doubt you can find anyone who is able to do it. So by the way, what's YOUR price? :) After you told us we can think about collecting the money. That's imho the only realistic approach. Eric -mr -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Hi! Off-list reply from me: Basically most of the information can be summarized by giving the DevelSound and that other sound related URL in the drdoswiki, so maybe you could post those along with a summary of what can be found there in a mail to this thread here? The summary because people might use google to find sound-relevant mails in the list archive and it would be good if they had a chance to be pointed to those two wiki pages in their search results :-) I agree that people who are not into dos will not want to improve VSB for fun. On the other hand, there was some effort to collect funds to make people like Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. Honestly, I think it will always be a lot of work so you will not be able to REALLY pay any coder... You are right that I should at least try VSB once, as even if it only works without emm386 and only with the internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than covox-only. Or does VSB already support PC speaker? I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from scratch by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. It would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Maybe you can somehow convince him to give an overview of what and how is possible and what not. I mean that JLM is a nice idea, but he never really advertizes it for use by any programmer apart from himself it seems ;-) Eric PS: The dosemu-JLM approach would also start with PC speaker for output if you ask me, but could port MPX- PLAY or even Alsa drivers for hardware. Pity that I have nothing which works with MPXPLAY right now :-!. PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the two most wished to be resurrected DOS projects now. -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: Hi! Off-list reply from me: Basically most of the information can be summarized by giving the DevelSound and that other sound related URL in the drdoswiki, so maybe you could post those along with a summary of what can be found there in a mail to this thread here? The summary because people might use google to find sound-relevant mails in the list archive and it would be good if they had a chance to be pointed to those two wiki pages in their search results :-) Sorry, I don't see what else should I write. The link is on the list and the informations in the wiki. What else? I agree that people who are not into dos will not want to improve VSB for fun. On the other hand, there was some effort to collect funds to make people like Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. You mean the thread in bttr? Honestly, I think it will always be a lot of work so you will not be able to REALLY pay any coder... Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? You are right that I should at least try VSB once, hell, YES! as even if it only works without emm386 and only with the internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than covox-only. It was used in a time as not everyone could purchase a soundcard, but today no one will use it. Or does VSB already support PC speaker? Didn't work for me for anything. I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from scratch by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. or the DOSBox code... Don't know which is better but I think it is the DOSBox one. It would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Why not mail him? Maybe you can somehow convince him to give an overview of what and how is possible and what not. I don't know enough about the technical details, this means I am not able to ask a questions with sense. The general knowledge is in the wiki. I mean that JLM is a nice idea, but he never really advertizes it for use by any programmer apart from himself it seems ;-) Yeah, we need advertisers, advertisers, advertisers!!! http://de.youtube.com/watch?v=HTkA9L2J2gY Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? Eric PS: The dosemu-JLM approach would also start with PC speaker for output if you ask me, but could port MPX- PLAY or even Alsa drivers for hardware. Pity that I have nothing which works with MPXPLAY right now :-!. PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the two most wished to be resurrected DOS projects now. The sound project not? -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Hi, was some effort to collect funds to make people like Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. You mean the thread in bttr? Yes. And I mean please mention ALL URLs in ONE easy to google in the list archive mail: DOS soundcard Wiki, VSB ponderings Wiki, BTTR fundraising thread, (etc?) :-) Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? Well, to have lots of time, I would probably stop other work. Then you should assume 500-2500 Euros per month depending on charity, mood, taxes, cost of living, insurances etc. For doing it as a side project next to real life and normal job, making or modding VSB into JEMM386-AC97-HDA-SB16-coolish is simply too much work, or maybe I am too lazy. You are right that I should at least try VSB once, hell, YES! Have you tried it? internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than covox-only. Based on the assumption: Speaker is better than no sound at all and people are no longer techy enough to build their own Covox... Or does VSB already support PC speaker? Didn't work for me for anything. Did you try without emm386 and with real-mode games, for example commander keen or something? What do the VSB docs say about which features to expect in VSB? I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from scratch by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. or the DOSBox code... [or Bochs or Qemu or...] Depends on which one is easier to port IMHO. C would be good. would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Why not mail him? Feel free. Or just forward the snippet above :-) Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? He could put some more docs on the JEMM386 homepage, or maybe put existing JLMs along with some more docs such as commented how X did Y snippets in a devel kit download or something... Think of xcdrom32 etc? Yet even xcdrom only uses, not simulates, IRQ/DMA. PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the two most wished to be resurrected DOS projects now. The sound project not? Arachne and Mpxplay already do work on various hardware. Arachne has issues with limited features, Mpxplay with limited hardware support, but as you say, VSB is not in use at all because it is much more limited than those. So for practical reasons, continuing Arachne / Mpxplay might make more people happy for less work than new VSB. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Eric Auer schrieb: Hi, was some effort to collect funds to make people like Japheth, Tom, Georg, Arkady (just examples!) do it. You mean the thread in bttr? Yes. And I mean please mention ALL URLs in ONE easy to google in the list archive mail: DOS soundcard Wiki, VSB ponderings Wiki, BTTR fundraising thread, (etc?) :-) This 'easy to google' is easy said. It's already it's own 'sport'. I am not convinced of the point of further improving this wiki site, enough written down. As soon someone is seriously interested I am glad to help, but until then it's a waste. Do you avoid the question of YOUR price? Well, to have lots of time, I would probably stop other work. Then you should assume 500-2500 Euros per month depending on charity, mood, taxes, cost of living, insurances etc. For doing it as a side project next to real life and normal job, making or modding VSB into JEMM386-AC97-HDA-SB16-coolish is simply too much work, or maybe I am too lazy. You are right that I should at least try VSB once, hell, YES! Have you tried it? Yes. internal PC speaker it will still be more useable than covox-only. Based on the assumption: Speaker is better than no sound at all and people are no longer techy enough to build their own Covox... Or does VSB already support PC speaker? Didn't work for me for anything. Did you try without emm386 and with real-mode games, for example commander keen or something? What do the VSB docs say about which features to expect in VSB? Yes, without emm386. It just freezes, guess my hardware is to new. I also wonder whether it would be easier to start from scratch by porting dosemu sound code into a JLM. or the DOSBox code... [or Bochs or Qemu or...] Depends on which one is easier to port IMHO. C would be good. would be interesting to hear from Japheth how well the JLM interface is suited for simulating I/O port based, ISA DMA accessible and IRQ generating devices... Why not mail him? Feel free. Or just forward the snippet above :-) Seriously, where and how he should advertise it? He could put some more docs on the JEMM386 homepage, or maybe put existing JLMs along with some more docs such as commented how X did Y snippets in a devel kit download or something... Think of xcdrom32 etc? Yet even xcdrom only uses, not simulates, IRQ/DMA. PPS: That said, MPXPLAY and Arachne are probably the two most wished to be resurrected DOS projects now. The sound project not? Arachne and Mpxplay already do work on various hardware. Arachne has issues with limited features, Mpxplay with limited hardware support, but as you say, VSB is not in use at all because it is much more limited than those. So for practical reasons, continuing Arachne / Mpxplay might make more people happy for less work than new VSB. Eric -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
[Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Hello! I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the CDROM. Is there any general driver for sound cards? My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS ? Thanks, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Santiago Almenara schrieb: Thanks Alain: n Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Alain M. ala...@pobox.com wrote: if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a Virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice when you upgrade your hw :) My problem is that I am installing FreeDOS over a clean partition in my PC. I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Dunno if I get your question right... If you use VMware then VMware will use the generic sound API of the host operating system to create the virtual sound device. So yes, any soundcard should be ok for VMware to create the virtual soundcard. But note my previous e-mail where I said that VMware's sound support in DOS is very bad. -mr Bye, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice when you upgrade your hw :) The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI Alain Santiago Almenara escreveu: Hello! I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the CDROM. Is there any general driver for sound cards? My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS ? Thanks, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
Thanks Alain: n Mon, Feb 2, 2009 at 1:01 PM, Alain M. ala...@pobox.com wrote: if you use VMware you will nedd another driver... VMware creates a Virtual machine and that means that everything is virtual. Including that your virtual machine will allways be the same regardless of what your real hw is, and will remain unchaged forever which is fery nice when you upgrade your hw :) My problem is that I am installing FreeDOS over a clean partition in my PC. I am not using any kind of virtualization software for it. The driver is probably Creative SoundBlaster AudioPCI Do you think this card is also compatible with the Intel HDA ??? Bye, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Sound
And I must add, if you have a newer notebook without DOS-compatible sound hardware then there is unfortunally no way to get sound to work. -mr Michael Reichenbach schrieb: Hi! Sorry, but I think depending on what you plan to do you will not have much fun in DOS with that card. But look at [1], if you are willing to pay a low price for an PCI addon card you may get sound working. regards, -mr [1] http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.SoundCardChip Santiago Almenara schrieb: Hello! I am planning to install FreeDOS over a clean partition (not VMware, VirtualPC or similar). I've already gotten the drivers for the mouse and the CDROM. Is there any general driver for sound cards? My sound card is the Intel HDA. Is it possible to configure it under FreeDOS ? Thanks, Santiago -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- This SF.net email is sponsored by: SourcForge Community SourceForge wants to tell your story. http://p.sf.net/sfu/sf-spreadtheword ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user -- Create and Deploy Rich Internet Apps outside the browser with Adobe(R)AIR(TM) software. With Adobe AIR, Ajax developers can use existing skills and code to build responsive, highly engaging applications that combine the power of local resources and data with the reach of the web. Download the Adobe AIR SDK and Ajax docs to start building applications today-http://p.sf.net/sfu/adobe-com ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
