Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
On 2 May 2021 at 10:24, Bryan Kilgallin wrote: > So, Frank: > > > Install Samba on your Linux PC. It may take a wee bit of learning to > > configure, but it does not bite back. I can help with snippets of > > config to make it accept ancient DOS clients. > > > > Install the Microsoft Network Client for MS-DOS. You can install > > this from scratch, or you can try using/refactoring the NetBootDisk: > > https://www.netbootdisk.com/floppy/download.htm > > > > ...and then redirect the LPT device: > > > > NET USE LPT1: \\my_samba_server\printer_queue > > I take it the DOS PC will tell the Linux PC to print! This seems a > bit complicated. > Yes, the Linux PC is an extra step - but probably the only way for you to go forward, if you still aim to print from your DOS box to your GDI printer. And it's not overly complicated, though it may require a little bit of extra learning... As I've already written, I myself have investigated the dark rabbit hole of MS-DOS networking for you: http://frantisek.rysanek.sweb.cz/FD_NET.zip Unzip the three directories to your DOS hard drive, take a look at the config.sys suggested, and see if you can get your DOS box to take a breath of your LAN. Get an IP address from DHCP and ping something on the LAN. Chances are that this part will work right off the bat. I'm fairly confident about the follow-up technologies in Linux (for your printing intermediate box). It doesn't look like a headache to set up, but it may require some tinkering and back-n-forth e-mail communication. If you have time and you're still curious about stuff, you might actually find that tech entertaining. It's not gonna clog your Linux printing setup or swamp your network or anything. Then again, if this kind of stuff just gives you a headache, never mind, go focus on something that makes your day brighter :-) Frank ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS on UEFI and other present and future hardware tricks
Hi Tom, > now it would be interesting to hear about these 'heavy' updates, that > happened completely in the dark for FreeDOS developers. > > what do they do? fix bugs? improve compatibility? where are they > documented? > > it would be cool to let the freedos kernel developers decide if these > changes are out of scope, or if cherry picking might be possible and > worth the effort. Well, have a look: https://github.com/dosemu2/fdpp/ My impression was that there are many changes related to pulling the whole thing over into the dosemu2 Linux space and changing the structure mixed with a variety of changes to improve for example compatibility with apps. The new structure and style has enabled some Valgrind checking, so potential bugs found by that also have led to patches. The number of commits was too high to even start looking at which of them are cherries, alas. Apparently a few patches have already been backported, maybe by Jeremy or Andrew, but as you know, Jeremy rarely talks about the kernel work so I know very little about such plans and successes. You can probably check https://github.com/FDOS/kernel One example is changing how int 2f.1217 deals with pending CDS: https://github.com/FDOS/kernel/commit/0dc6a02450ff170101ce911cf9f628187d17fe2f This makes the kernel work with lredir drives in dosemu2 even when no fake FAT "seed" is used (dosemu2 provides a FAT illusion for C: during boot so you can boot from a Linux directory). In dosemu1, there was a workaround in the emulator, but that had to keep track of (potentially moving) data structures of DOS, which was problematic. The patched kernel no longer needs that FreeDOS-only workaround. Commercial DOS versions always worked. You can also get automated builds, updated on commit here: http://kernel.fdos.org/ which links to https://github.com/FDOS/kernel/zipball/master https://github.com/FDOS/kernel/tarball/master That in turn makes me wonder whether it would be possible to extract last-changed timestamps from the commit logs to stamp every file in the ZIP or TAR with their respective change date. At the moment, ALL files in the ZIP have the same timestamp as the ZIP itself, which I find rather inconvenient. Regards, Eric ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
Thanks, Robert: If there's no problem of shelf space, get a used HP LaserJet 4 printer on eBay. I've made such an inquiry of the charity from which I got my refurbished (Linux PC) and laptop. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB / deprecate or improve PRINT queue tools?
I wrote: My main workhorse is a Dell OptiPlex GX270 running Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS. That is incorrect. My Linux PC is a Dell XPS 8300. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB / deprecate or improve PRINT queue tools?
Thanks, Frank: Bryan says he's got a Linux computer. My main workhorse is a Dell OptiPlex GX270 running Ubuntu 20.04.2 LTS. I also have networked a Lenovo Thinkpad L430, also running Ubuntu. A printer that natively understand PCL3 ... will commonly understand plain text. I'll ask around for ancient printers. -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
Hi Bryan, >> Without any additional software, >> a printer being used from DOS needs to be able to receive plain text, >> with additional capabilities either through the industry standard ESC/P >> (developed by Epson, who was for a long time the leader in printers >> before laser printers started to show up, then they kind of missed the >> bus) or by being "LaserJet II" (PCL3) compatible. > > That rules out my Brother HL-3150CDN colour laser printer. > >> An additional hurdle >> is that a lot of (El Cheapo) printers these days aren't actually >> processing "text/graphics into pixel" themselves anymore, but just >> expect to get all the final pixel data from the OS, which is not a >> problem for GUI OS like Windows or macOS, but pretty much is a no-go >> when printing from DOS. Full stop. > > Yes, my printer is GDI only! If there's no problem of shelf space, get a used HP LaserJet 4 printer on eBay. Cheers, Robert -- +++ BTTR Software +++ Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/ DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
G'day Robert: I vaguely remember using ps2pdf in plain DOS 15 years ago. All is more complex now! -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
Thanks, Ralf: Without any additional software, a printer being used from DOS needs to be able to receive plain text, with additional capabilities either through the industry standard ESC/P (developed by Epson, who was for a long time the leader in printers before laser printers started to show up, then they kind of missed the bus) or by being "LaserJet II" (PCL3) compatible. That rules out my Brother HL-3150CDN colour laser printer. An additional hurdle is that a lot of (El Cheapo) printers these days aren't actually processing "text/graphics into pixel" themselves anymore, but just expect to get all the final pixel data from the OS, which is not a problem for GUI OS like Windows or macOS, but pretty much is a no-go when printing from DOS. Full stop. Yes, my printer is GDI only! DOS as designed only supports good old parallel (as in Centronics) or RS-232 type serial connections. Both of those are rare as hen's teeth on both newer computers and/or printers. I do have both parallel and serial ports on my Dell OptiPlex GX270 running FreeDOS. I currently use the serial port for my POLAR Sport Tester PE4000 heart-monitor receiver-box. https://www.suchebiete.com/foto_Polar-Sport-Tester-PE4000-Pulsuhr_Interface,15849589.html Another possibility is printing on a networked printer, if that printer is accessible through an established network connection. Used to be a breeze back in the days on a Novell network, is a bit harder these days when you require SMB (and likely the nowadays frowned upon SMB 1.x protocol). But the whole networking on DOS these days is lik going down a really dark rabbit hole. :( That leaves us once again with the dreaded (from the viewpoint of operability in DOS) USB connected printers. Finding USB drivers, given that the printer is software compatible with DOS as mentioned above, will likely be an exercise in futility. :( -- members.iinet.net.au/~kilgallin/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
Hi Eric, > PS: We have GhostScript for PostScript processing and > our "print screen hotkey" TSR exist for HP PCL, ESC/P > and PostScript output. We have PDF viewers and it might > be possible to use GhostScript to create PDF? Not sure. > Some text editors also have built-in output converters. I vaguely remember using ps2pdf in plain DOS 15 years ago. https://geos.fandom.com/de/wiki/PDF-Erzeugung_mit_Geos_unter_DOS (in German) http://www.nomdo.dds.nl/gs.htm Cheers, Robert -- +++ BTTR Software +++ Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/ DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/ ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB / deprecate or improve PRINT queue tools?
Thanks, Adam:
It's worse than that. I've tried to get many different printers
working under Linux (which generally has pretty good hardware support)
and it turns out that a lot of manufacturers cut corners on their
devices and don't support standard print protocols like PostScript or
PCL, and instead use a lightweight translation layer to pass the
drawing calls in the Windows API over to the hardware.
I've read that my Brother HL-3150CDN laser printer only does GDI!
It basically means there are a number of (usually cheap) printers out
there that will only work under Windows.
Ubuntu Linux prints to it OK. But apparently not my old PC running FreeDOS!
If you can find a modern printer that supports both
PostScript and PCL, there's a fair chance that you can still get a
parallel port interface adapter for it too so you won't need the USB
drivers anyway.
So what is a purchasable printer suitable for printing from FreeDOS on
bare-metal?
They're usually aimed at industrial/point-of-sale type
users where the modern equipment still all uses the traditional
interfaces.
I suppose something like this could list text.
{This is a thermal printer like you would find on a cash register or
adding machine. It will print simple strings passed to it via TTL
serial, bitmap images (poorly) and it can generate several different
formats of barcodes. This model can even print QR Codes!
The thermal printer takes 2.25" (57mm) wide thermal paper with a max
roll diameter of 1.5" (39mm). Thermal paper is inexpensive and commonly
found in most office supply stores in 85ft lengths. You may have to
remove some paper from these rolls in order for it to fit into the
printer. But, you can always use the excess paper in the printer, since
you don’t need to have a ‘core’ in the paper for it to work.
The back panel has 2 3-pin connectors; one for power and one for serial
communications. The thermal printer ships with default 19200bps baud rate.}
https://www.littlebird.com.au/products/thermal-printer-84b894b4-36b0-4928-a565-421143317622
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Re: [Freedos-user] Why I use DOS a.k.a. FreeDOS for Dummies?
Jim Hall [01.05.2021 23:00]: > BTW, if anyone is interested in troff (or variants) there's an > interesting history in Brian Kernighan's book, "Unix: A History and a > Memoir." It starts on page 98. In brief: Anyone remotely interested in the history of Unix must read this book. -- Hilsen Harald ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Print via USB
You are right, Eric:
That would of course be the EASIEST option as long as your PC
and your printer both still have Centronics connectivity
The PC does, but the printer doesn't. Hm, I found the following.
{USB to Parallel Bi-Directional Cable
USB to Parallel Bi-Directional Cable
USB to Parallel Bi-Directional Cable
CAT.NO:XC4847
Parallel printer ports have disappeared from most modern desk top
computers and virtually all new notebook computers. This is not a problem}
https://www.jaycar.com.au/usb-to-parallel-bi-directional-cable/p/XC4847
That sounds more like a cable for printers which have
Centronics and PC which have none.
A local retired-technician agrees with you.
Probably better to use network or USB
I vaguely recall having read here that if I could find a PS2 keyboard
and mouse, then I might be able to print from USB. Perhaps then I might
ask the above techie to rummage through his containers of old stuff?
Note that if your printer is of the GDI variety, you will
not be able to print from DOS *at all* without adding a
computer with GDI drivers as translator between your DOS
computer and your printer.
{Print Languages GDI (host based)}
file:///tmp/mozilla_bryan0/HL-3150CDN_Brochure.pdf
If the printer understands
a language for which you have a DOS tool which speaks
it, such as HP PCL, ESC/P, PostScript, PDF or plain
text, you CAN print directly from DOS as soon as you
find a way to send data through suitable communication
channels between the two: Network drivers and netcat
or MS CLIENT, USB drivers and TYPE, COPY or similar?
Apparently not!
Does this offer any hope?
{HX DOS Extender
[Update: This program is no longer available.] HX DOS extender is a
32-bit and 16-bit DOS extender that not only provides DPMI services for
DOS programs but also provides a Win32 API layer that enables many Win32
console programs to work under DOS. It even provides limited support for
DirectDraw, GDI and OpenGL graphics. It supports the Windows PE file
format as well as the DOS MZ executable file format. Source code is
provided. At the time this review was written, it is one of the few, if
not the only, DOS extender still being maintained.}
https://www.thefreecountry.com/programming/dosextenders.shtml
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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS on UEFI and other present and future hardware tricks
Hi Eric, > And for various reasons, Stas has spent a lot of work to pull > most of the FreeDOS kernel over into the protected mode space > in context of dosemu2. That module is now called fdpp. It lacks > the init-text and the hma-text part runs on the Linux side, > with dosemu-specific connectors residing on the DOS side. > This makes it somewhat convoluted to "package" the heavily > updated fdpp kernel back into a classic "kernel.sys loaded by > a boot sector" infrastructure again and of course some things > are now optimized for protected mode. So it can be frustrating > that many updates for the kernel have ended up somewhat out of > reach, backporting them would require tedious cherry picking. now it would be interesting to hear about these 'heavy' updates, that happened completely in the dark for FreeDOS developers. what do they do? fix bugs? improve compatibility? where are they documented? it would be cool to let the freedos kernel developers decide if these changes are out of scope, or if cherry picking might be possible and worth the effort. Tom ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
