Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Eric Auer]

Hi Paul,

> Have you tried to run the installer under DOSEMU2?

With which type of drive configuration? I normally use
a Linux directory as C: drive, so you can neither format
nor partition that. Interestingly, WHICHFAT believes
such drives are FAT16, but CHKDSK and DOSFSCK will tell
you that they are not sector accessible at all. This is
due to some magic performed by DOSEMU2 to make the drive
bootable. Technically, it turns into something similar
to a network drive after booting. With classic DOSEMU,
you needed no extra drivers for this. With DOSEMU2, you
have to load an "EMUFS" driver to enable writes. If you
forget to load it, FreeDOS will not show error messages
about writes, but written data gets forgotten as soon
as you look away for a moment and never reaches Linux.

If you configure DOSEMU2 to use a disk image as your C:
drive, you can format it to any FAT type you like, with
some effort. Very useful for testing DOSFSCK and FORMAT.

The problem is that harddisk images are a bit special:
An 128 byte header with a magic and the geometry, then
an image of a partitioned disk with only one partition.

DOSEMU came with tools to create such images, but for
FAT32, you have to manually hex-edit the partition type
in the "MBR" of the image.

So whether you can run the installer in DOSEMU2 depends
on how you have configured it, but you probably want to
make sure to NOT let the installer partition or format
the disk. Just tell it to install the files to some
existing C: drive. And again, if the drive is actually
a Linux directory, you have to make sure to load EMUFS
to be able to properly write that. You could DEVLOAD it
before manually running the installer, I guess, because
adding it to the ISO of the installer would create the
risk of using a version mismatching the version which
comes with your DOSEMU2, which defaults to having some
extra drive containing specific drivers and tools such
as EMUFS (load SYS first, then run COM), UMB, EMS, CDROM,
SYSTEM, LREDIR, EXITEMU, EMUSOUND etc. For example by
running EMUSOUND /e your BLASTER etc. variable is set
based on your DOSEMU2 config, so you do not need to
manually keep your autoexec in sync with your config.

The UMB, EMS and CDROM drivers do what you can guess:
You cannot use EMM386 or UMBPCI in DOSEMU2 and because
no IDE/SATA controllers are simulated, only BIOS disks,
you cannot use CD/DVD drivers for hardware drives either.

> When it partition the Linux directory, it give some error (I don't remember).
> 
> And when it come to format the Linux directory, it loops 3 error messages 
> never stopping.
> 
> So yes, DOSEMU2 do have some special needs...

You can certainly say that last thing, but having a full
FreeDOS install of course gives you many nice apps in
DOSEMU2, just like a full install in any other context.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Paul Dufresne via Freedos-user]

 Le mar., 15 juin 2021 07:36:06 -0400 Eric Auer  
écrit 

>Hi Jerome,
...
>How about Bochs? DOSEMU2? DOSBOX? Why would
>you assume that people with VM have different
>needs than people with plain hardware?
Have you tried to run the installer under DOSEMU2?

When it partition the Linux directory, it give some error (I don't remember).

And when it come to format the Linux directory, it loops 3 error messages never 
stopping.

So yes, DOSEMU2 do have some special needs...___
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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Eric Auer]

Hi Jerome,

thanks for reading the flood of mails :-)

> The warm boot is an alias in the FDAUTO. Basically, it is a line
> inherited from FreeDOS 1.1 that I’ve never bothered to change.

I think coldboot would be more reliable.

> What config bugs???
> 
> I am aware of no bugs in the current config files. 
> 
> I have be asked to make some changes to some things to possibly increase 
> compatibility
> or boost performance for some installs. Things like “please load a CD cache” 
> because
> it is slow on my hardware.

Yes. No show-stoppers, but things like "the
first and recommended boot option uses daring
emm386 options and may crash for some people",
or inconsistencies between descriptions and
implementations of the different boot options.

Also please load UHDD before UDVD2 so it can
provide a cache for both harddisk and CD. If
your driver detection choses ELTORITO, also
add CDRCACHE as separate CD cache.

I personally would also appreciate loading
MORESYS, but that is of course a bit unusual.

>> See my 2021-05-03 mail on freedos-devel,
>> "Distro autoexec/config wishes for 1.3rc4" ...

> Its not really the bad

As it is difficult for me to predict which config
file contents will be used on which hardware, it
could be useful to start a thread where you post
a typical, say "real Pentium 1 or VM" style config
as copy-paste content so I can do finger-pointing
at actually used lines that seem problematic ;-)

Of course you can also wait with that until you
have integrated the updates you were going to
add anyway :-)

> For example, without pipes, you can’t do
> 
> grep -i “FDAPM” *.BAT | grep -iv “COLDBOOT”

That comment was mostly about Jim's video, which
is why I had sent it only to Jim at first. Of course
one should really have a writeable temp directory,
because pipes are useful, but when people happen
to be in a situation without one, it is good if
the video also talks about how to avoid pipes.

> First, the installer does not automatically format or
> partition the HD if a existing writable drive C: is found.

So it automatically switches to "just copy files"
mode in that case? I was not aware of that based
on what I saw in the video.

> Things outside the %DOSDIR% (usually C:\FDOS) should
> be fine. 

Great :-) Also, I have now watched the "advanced
installer" video from Jim. That one has almost
exactly the amount of choices I like to have in
installers, thanks :-) But see my comment above,
if the non-advanced installer will automatically
switch to overwriting only C:\FDOS without any
partitioning or formatting, that also already
covers most wishes.

Maybe the installer could check whether there is
a FreeDOS directory instead of or next to a FDOS
directory, maybe check which of them are mentioned
in config, fdconfig, autoexec or fdauto as a tie
breaker and then assist the user in selecting where
to put and/or overwrite a previous FreeDOS directory.

But that is of course just a bonus, not required.

By the way, I GUESS that you default to using
fdconfig and fdauto files instead of config and
autoexec files to reduce overlap with other OS
in a dual boot situation or when people might go
back to their other DOS later? In that case, you
should probably install command.com in the FDOS
directory, not in the root directory, to further
reduce the overlap?

Otherwise, I would recommend to use the classic
config and autoexec names. People are used to
them and some app installers actually edit the
config files so it is good if they can be found
automatically.

I think if you find pre-existing files of either
or both names, you could ask the user what the
installer should do: Keep, rename, overwrite etc.

As far as I understood Jim's video, you already
have a similar question in the installer, but it
was not clear for me whether that is about the
boot files, config files, FDOS directory or all.
In particular, does ZIP-ing (or renaming?) the
previous files include the FDOS directory? Or is
it only about boot and config files?

About the "red alert" theme: Just mention
the word "advanced" somewhere on screen.
People may not stay aware that "red" is
a reference to that difference, even if
they had to manually start "SETUP ADV".

Which brings me to the next question, why
not put that choice in the interactive
installer menu? As far as I understood
the video, people have to abort install
to get to a prompt, then manually start
advanced install, that is less intuitive.

> I’ve been revisiting my thoughts on this lately... 
> 
> There are many users who want to always see
> every option when installing FreeDOS.
> 
> However, the overwhelming majority of users are
> running FreeDOS in some sort of VM and...

Depends. If they simply see the options of
base and full automated install and advanced
install with more choices, everybody can be
happy :-)

> There is a third option to consider
> 
> Detection of a QEMU, VirtualBox and VMWare

How about Bochs? DOSEMU2? DOSBOX? Why would
you assume that people with VM have 

Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jerome Shidel]

Wow there is a lot unpack here on several different posts….

> I think you're referring to time index 2:46 in the video, after
> partitioning, when the system reboots and you can briefly see the
> "warmboot" message.
> 
> The difference is: (from "FDAPM /?")
>> COLDboot / WARMboot - do a reboot with / without BIOS tests (POST)

The warm boot is an alias in the FDAUTO. Basically, it is a line inherited from
FreeDOS 1.1 that I’ve never bothered to change.

There are other mechanisms used by the installer to insure a reboot. 
For example, when you tell it to reboot and you see the red bar at the top of 
the screen, 
reboot was handled by V8Power Tools directly initiating POST.

> [and then I think you commented on some of the YouTube comments:]
> 
>>> 1:17: Should be "Deutsch" instead of "Deutsche".
>>> the first means "German", the latter "Germans"
>> 
> 
> This is a comment from YouTube user lucius1976.
> 
> I think Jerome will have this updated for the next release.

Thats the plan :-)

> 
>>> hopefully the bugs in the default config
>>> and autoexec will be fixed, too.
> 
>> Can you be more specific?

What config bugs???

I am aware of no bugs in the current config files. 

I have be asked to make some changes to some things to possibly increase 
compatibility or boost performance for some installs. Things like “please load 
a CD cache” because it is slow on my hardware. 

> 
> See my 2021-05-03 mail on freedos-devel,
> "Distro autoexec/config wishes for 1.3rc4"
> where I try to review the templates used
> on https://github.com/shidel/FDI/  but note
> that the templates do not really make it
> easy to see what the installed configs are
> going to be on a particular system.

Its not really the bad… 

There are AUTOEXEC.* and CONFIG.* under FDISETUP\SETUP\. Unless otherwise 
detected the *.DEF version (default) is installed. Other extensions, like VBX 
(VirtualBox) and DBX (DOSBox) are all platform specific. 

The installer picks the appropriate file, expands some variables imbedded in 
them and installs those files. For example, $FTARGET$ usually becomes C:\FDOS. 

> Compared to "type fdauto.bat | less" you avoid
> the temp file needed by pipelines in DOS. While
> you make an important point by explaining how
> pipes need a writeable temp directory, it would
> also be good to exaplain that "less fdauto.bat"
> avoids the pipeline and thereby the need for a
> writeable temp directory.

Yes, but unfortunately not everything can be done that way.
For example, without pipes, you can’t do…

grep -i “FDAPM” *.BAT | grep -iv “COLDBOOT”

Not super important. Just saying.

> As in not having to use a relatively hidden
> advanced installer mode. Just something like
> "Install to C:\freedos", possibly hidden if
> no working C: is found and possibly changing
> to "Overwrite C:\freedos" if the directory is
> found to already be there. Also because you
> want to be able to upgrade older FreeDOS to
> newer FreeDOS without losing all your data :-o

First, the installer does not automatically format or
partition the HD if a existing writable drive C: is found.

Things outside the %DOSDIR% (usually C:\FDOS) should
be fine. 

> And no, this should not analyze which files
> and packages etc. you already have. It is
> okay to be not perfect when overwriting,
> still a lot better than formatting.

(This does not apply to the X86 installer!)
The installer removes any packages that are installed that it will be 
installing. It must do this
to remove those files. Without doing so, attempts to install those packages 
will fail. FDINST will
not overwrite existing files.

In advanced mode, the installer will also ask if you want to wipe out 
everything else in the %DOSDIR% directory tree. 

For the main media, like CD and USB, there is only one installer. It presents 
the “Red Alert” theme when in advanced mode. The main differences between 
advanced and default mode really come down to the choices provided to the user. 
In default mode, some things are not presented to the user and the “default” 
option is automatically chosen. Things like install drive default to “C:\FDOS” 
or “D:\FDOS” (when the installer is running on drive C:). When running in 
advanced mode, the installer automatically presents additional questions to the 
user. Those questions are populated with the choices the installer would have 
made when running in default mode. 

For the x86 installer, things are different. It is a completely different 
installer. Also, it does not use FDINST to install packages. Instead, it uses 
SLICER (the kinda weird archiver I wrote to make the x86 version possible). It 
can and will overwrite conflicting files during installation. 

> As in not having to use a relatively hidden
> advanced installer mode. 

I’ve been revisiting my thoughts on this lately... 

There are many users who want to always see every option when installing 
FreeDOS.

However, the overwhelming majority of users are running 

Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jim Hall]

Similar to Tom's comment elsewhere, your email is longer than my free
time to read it. So I'll pick only a few things to reply to, and let
others comment on the rest. :-)


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 7:04 PM Eric Auer  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> > (Eric replied to me off-list about the "Installing FreeDOS 1.3 RC4"
> > video, but this is probably interesting to other FreeDOS users, so I'm
> > replying to the list)
>
> Okay for me. Instead of making small remarks off-list, I can
> do a more verbose review here. I hope nobody gets bored :-)

I get too much email as it is. And it takes away from my day job if I
try to reply to everything. I have an autoreply on my
jh...@freedos.org email to let people know I am slow to reply to
email.

That's why I mentioned to you a few weeks ago that if you email me
off-list about something that should be on the email lists, I'll
probably just reply to the email lists instead.


> > The error you're referring to at time index 0:58 in the video is
> > because the disk image is entirely blank. The disk has not been
> > partitioned yet, so there's no partition table. The error is:
> >
> >> - InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
> >> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
> >> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
> >> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>
> That does NOT seem correct as a warning about a MBR full of
> 0 bytes, as filesystem type 0 stands for empty partitions.
>
> But maybe your MBR was not full of 0 bytes? Or maybe I
> have misunderstood something here?

I just used this to create a new 2MB image file:

$ qemu-img create f.img 2M


And yes, it's full of zeroes.


> >> hopefully the bugs in the default config
> >> and autoexec will be fixed, too.
>
> > Can you be more specific?
>
> See my 2021-05-03 mail on freedos-devel,
> "Distro autoexec/config wishes for 1.3rc4"
> [..]

Ah, I did not remember that one email from six weeks ago, and make the
connection to what you had said in your reply. :-)



Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jim Hall]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 6:55 PM Karen Lewellen  wrote:
>
> Just curious,
> By what method in DOS  itself could someone reach  your YouTube channel
> and  get any of this content?
> I do recall a DOS edition of mplayer, but YouTube itself has changed a
> great deal since I found that option.

I don't know of any way to watch YouTube from FreeDOS. Maybe someone
else here knows how to do that.

> Second,  How inclusive are these videos?  Automatic closed captioning for
> example, or a transcript, or audio description?

I haven't created a transcript, but I speak slowly and clearly enough
that YouTube is able to autogenerate an accurate closed captioning. I
usually watch YouTube with captions (because I watch a lot of UK
videos, and some accents are hard to figure out without captions) so I
know the FreeDOS YouTube video captions are pretty close.

I'm watching the "Using the Advanced Setup in FreeDOS 1.3 RC4" video
with captions right now, and YouTube correctly captions "freedos" and
things like "fdos" (when referring to the "FDOS" directory) and "adv"
when I talk about "Setup Advanced" and mention "setup adv." YouTube
correctly captioned that.

Sometimes YouTube captions "FreeDOS" into "fridos" but overall I'd say
the autogenerated captions are 99%+ accurate.

Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Eric Auer]

Hi again,

>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76V0EpXY6Eo

>> "less" also can be used without pipelines,
>> as you know, as in "less fdauto.bat"

Compared to "type fdauto.bat | less" you avoid
the temp file needed by pipelines in DOS. While
you make an important point by explaining how
pipes need a writeable temp directory, it would
also be good to exaplain that "less fdauto.bat"
avoids the pipeline and thereby the need for a
writeable temp directory.

>> would be nice if you could present moresys:
>>
>> type fdauto.bat >more$
>>
>>  ;-)

> I never remember about MORESYS, so I never remember it's there.
> Actually, MORESYS isn't loaded by default on FreeDOS 1.3 RC4 anyway,

That could be changed. It only uses half a kilobyte
of RAM. Of course it sometimes scrolls a bit more
than a page, but I found it to be convenient at
various occasions. Also because it works in real
time. No waiting for the pipeline temp file to be
complete, screen output starts immediately and is
just paused after each page of text :-)

> so the command wouldn't work in a "stock" FreeDOS 1.3 RC4.

Well... We have more "odd" things included already:

>> what are the alternate _move _move _tee and
>> _choice versions about? what are jemfbhlp,
>> umbm + cpucache? why himemx + himemx2? why
>> debug, debugx, debugxg, debugxd + debugxe?
>> quite a collection of alternate "debug"!

Why does a "stock" FreeDOS contain FIVE "debug"
and two HIMEMX, but zero XMGR and zero 386SWAT?

Why is there LBACACHE and CPUCACHE, but no UHDD?
I hope there is CDRCACHE, too. There is TICKLE.

It also contains several CWSDPMI variants and
similar tools. Sort of okay after all, but those
and various other "helper and testing tools" from
other packages (drivers, archivers) are getting
close to "maybe better give them directories".

>> note the dir size layout bug at 8:20

DIR /W starts to show the summary of the sizes
at whichever column DIR ended, so in the video,
it wraps around at the 80th column because it
does not fit.

> this appears to be fixed in FreeCOM 0.85.

Nice to know :-)

> You're referring to the "PRESS ESC AGAIN TO QUIT"

Yes. AMB should say something like "Press ESC again
to quit to DOS or enter to stay in AMB".

In a similar problem, BOLITAIRE shows a really
quit yes/no question when you try to leave while
a current game exists, but that question can NOT
be answered by keyboard. Several other menus DO
work with keyboard, which is important when you
have problems with your mouse. At least leaving
the program should be possible at any time even
when the batteries of your mouse just went flat.

Regards, Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Eric Auer]

Hi!

> (Eric replied to me off-list about the "Installing FreeDOS 1.3 RC4"
> video, but this is probably interesting to other FreeDOS users, so I'm
> replying to the list)

Okay for me. Instead of making small remarks off-list, I can
do a more verbose review here. I hope nobody gets bored :-)

> The error you're referring to at time index 0:58 in the video is
> because the disk image is entirely blank. The disk has not been
> partitioned yet, so there's no partition table. The error is:
> 
>> - InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>> illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0

That does NOT seem correct as a warning about a MBR full of
0 bytes, as filesystem type 0 stands for empty partitions.

But maybe your MBR was not full of 0 bytes? Or maybe I
have misunderstood something here?

>> - InitDiskWARNING: using suspect partition Pri:1 FS 06: with calculated
>> values 1014-15-63 instead of 1015-15-63

That EITHER means the used version of FDISK disagrees with
itself by 1 cylinder between CHS and LBA values OR there
is a bug in the kernel interpreting the values? If FDISK
caused this, do the recent Tom/Japheth bugfixes solve it?

> ..but this doesn't impede running FreeDOS afterwards.

It could cause other problems when several partitions are used.

>> there should be an easy upgrade from other
>> dos, without fdisk and format, which does
>> not destroy all your already present data.

As in not having to use a relatively hidden
advanced installer mode. Just something like
"Install to C:\freedos", possibly hidden if
no working C: is found and possibly changing
to "Overwrite C:\freedos" if the directory is
found to already be there. Also because you
want to be able to upgrade older FreeDOS to
newer FreeDOS without losing all your data :-o

And no, this should not analyze which files
and packages etc. you already have. It is
okay to be not perfect when overwriting,
still a lot better than formatting.

> ... about using the Advanced Setup:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxo0wPJgIm8

Will check that out, thanks.

>> reboot should not use warmboot, but coldboot.

The reason is that colder boots are more
reliable. There also is hotboot, which is
just reloading DOS and barely ever works.

So I recommend that the installer uses
coldboot to be on the safe side.

>> the installer should probably tell you for
>> each reboot from which medium you should
>> boot next.

> Like, a message printed after "Your computer should now reboot"?

A Linux installer would say something like

"Please remove the CD from your drive and
then press enter to reboot the installed
system and run some final install steps"

In the FreeDOS case, you have to boot the
CD twice (reboot after fdisk to format)
before 3. booting the installed system, so
the installer should tell that it expects
the user to boot the CD (or USB) again.

>> hopefully the bugs in the default config
>> and autoexec will be fixed, too.

> Can you be more specific?

See my 2021-05-03 mail on freedos-devel,
"Distro autoexec/config wishes for 1.3rc4"
where I try to review the templates used
on https://github.com/shidel/FDI/ but note
that the templates do not really make it
easy to see what the installed configs are
going to be on a particular system.

The main replies to this thread up to and
including 2021-05-06 are interesting to
read as well. After that, the topic is
shifting to RBIL.

> [and then I think you commented on some of the YouTube comments:]
> 
>>> 1:17: Should be "Deutsch" instead of "Deutsche".
>>> the first means "German", the latter "Germans"
>>
> This is a comment from YouTube user lucius1976.

Exactly. It was one of the comments you had not yet
answered on your youtube channel.

> On YouTube, I answered with this:
> 
>> DOS applications support sound, not DOS itself. And AC97 sound
>> hardware dates from 1997, when game companies weren't writing DOS
>> games anymore. AC97 is a different interface than SoundBlaster,
>> the most common sound card in the DOS era.
>>
>> I believe TEMU (Tandy Emulator) has a Virtual
>> SoundBlaster ("VSB") and you might try that. Link to GitHub is
>> https://github.com/volkertb/temu-vsb

While Volkert has a great collection of code about DOS
sound issues, have you checked whether TEMU actually
already provides some practical help to DOS users, as
opposed to DOS developers, in particular with AC97/HDA
hardware and games which expect SB16?

> This question about sound comes up from time to time

Exactly. And I usually answer that you can play media
files with MPXPLAY on HDA and AC97. As you recommend
MPLAYER and Open Cubic Player, I assume those also
work with modern sound chips? Then we should include
at least one of them in the "full" set of the CD/USB.

I also answer that most old games for DOS have built-in
drivers which only support ISA or compatible sound cards
such as Sound Blaster and that while some PCI 

Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Karen Lewellen]

Just curious,
By what method in DOS  itself could someone reach  your YouTube channel 
and  get any of this content?
I do recall a DOS edition of mplayer, but YouTube itself has changed a 
great deal since I found that option.
Second,  How inclusive are these videos?  Automatic closed captioning for 
example, or a transcript, or audio description?

Kare



On Mon, 14 Jun 2021, Jim Hall wrote:


(Eric replied off-list about the "FreeDOS 1.3 RC4" video, but this is
generally interesting to others, so I am replying to the list instead)


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:40 PM Jim Hall  wrote:


Did you know FreeDOS has a YouTube channel? I post a variety of videos
there, about using FreeDOS, programming on DOS, running DOS
applications, and playing DOS games.
(https://www.youtube.com/freedosproject)

Folks have asked if I can share highlights from some of the YouTube
videos, and I try to post something on the email list every 1 or 2
months:
[...]


On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 5:57 PM Eric Auer  wrote:



hi again!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76V0EpXY6Eo

"less" also can be used without pipelines,
as you know, as in "less fdauto.bat"



I think you're referring to 3:58 in the video, right after mentioning
that the "pipe" doesn't work the same in DOS as it does on Linux. On
Linux, "cat FDAUTO.BAT|more" will execute the "cat" command to display
the file to stdout, *and* execute the "more" command to paginate the
content from stdin. (If you do a "ps" on your Linux system, you'll see
both "cat" and "more" processes.)

In DOS, everything runs one at a time. So typing "type
FDAUTO.BAT|more" will execute the "type" command and save the output
in a temporary file, then COMMAND will execute the "more" command to
read from the temporary file.

And on the LiveCD, the CD is a write-only filesystem, so Jerome set up
a small RAM disk to store the temporary files. So at 3:30 in the
video, I show how "type FDAUTO.BAT|more" works on the LiveCD.

And then I mention that we include more than just the "MORE" command,
we also have the "less" command from Linux. So I repeat the command as
"type FDAUTO.BAT|less" to show the "less" command in action.

But you're right, I didn't show that you can call "less FDAUTO.BAT" on
the command line. I talk about "viewing" the file in EDIT (to further
show that the LiveCD is a read-only environment) but not another
"less" command. I guess I figured that Linux users probably knew how
to run the "less" command.



would be nice if you could present moresys:

type fdauto.bat >more$

 ;-)


I never remember about MORESYS, so I never remember it's there.
Actually, MORESYS isn't loaded by default on FreeDOS 1.3 RC4 anyway,
so the command wouldn't work in a "stock" FreeDOS 1.3 RC4. On almost
all my YouTube videos, I try to use a "stock" FreeDOS if I can, so
it's easier for folks to reproduce what I'm doing.

But if I ever do a video about "different ways to view files on
FreeDOS" I'll be sure to cover MORESYS.



what are the alternate _move _move _tee and
_choice versions about? what are jemfbhlp,
umbm + cpucache? why himemx + himemx2? why
debug, debugx, debugxg, debugxd + debugxe?
quite a collection of alternate "debug"!



I think you're referring to around 8:03 in the video when you can see
the output of DIR in the BIN directory. I hadn't really looked at them
before. But I just looked now (as you could have) and _move _more _tee
and _choice each seem to be a slightly smaller version of the full
commands, also in that directory. For example, "_CHOICE /?" gives a
message that indicates it's the same version as CHOICE, also in BIN.

At a guess, maybe these are UPX'd versions? Or maybe it's a leftover
from some earlier setup to create the RC4 LiveCD.



note the dir size layout bug at 8:20



You should be more specific. What you're referring to is the
long-standing bug where DIR output doesn't force a newline before the
summary. For what it's worth, this appears to be fixed in FreeCOM
0.85.



amb should probably give a hint on how
to not quit (at "press esc again").

 :-)



You're referring to the "PRESS ESC AGAIN TO QUIT" message at about
10:20 in the video.

Hitting a different key to "not quit" hasn't bothered me. But if it
bothers you, you could enter a bug about it, or mention it to Mateusz
(the author/maintainer of AMB). But I am not Mateusz.

:-)


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jim Hall]

(Eric replied off-list about the "FreeDOS 1.3 RC4" video, but this is
generally interesting to others, so I am replying to the list instead)

> On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:40 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
> >>
> >> Did you know FreeDOS has a YouTube channel? I post a variety of videos
> >> there, about using FreeDOS, programming on DOS, running DOS
> >> applications, and playing DOS games.
> >> (https://www.youtube.com/freedosproject)
> >>
> >> Folks have asked if I can share highlights from some of the YouTube
> >> videos, and I try to post something on the email list every 1 or 2
> >> months:
> >>[...]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 5:57 PM Eric Auer  wrote:
>
>
> hi again!
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=76V0EpXY6Eo
>
> "less" also can be used without pipelines,
> as you know, as in "less fdauto.bat"
>

I think you're referring to 3:58 in the video, right after mentioning
that the "pipe" doesn't work the same in DOS as it does on Linux. On
Linux, "cat FDAUTO.BAT|more" will execute the "cat" command to display
the file to stdout, *and* execute the "more" command to paginate the
content from stdin. (If you do a "ps" on your Linux system, you'll see
both "cat" and "more" processes.)

In DOS, everything runs one at a time. So typing "type
FDAUTO.BAT|more" will execute the "type" command and save the output
in a temporary file, then COMMAND will execute the "more" command to
read from the temporary file.

And on the LiveCD, the CD is a write-only filesystem, so Jerome set up
a small RAM disk to store the temporary files. So at 3:30 in the
video, I show how "type FDAUTO.BAT|more" works on the LiveCD.

And then I mention that we include more than just the "MORE" command,
we also have the "less" command from Linux. So I repeat the command as
"type FDAUTO.BAT|less" to show the "less" command in action.

But you're right, I didn't show that you can call "less FDAUTO.BAT" on
the command line. I talk about "viewing" the file in EDIT (to further
show that the LiveCD is a read-only environment) but not another
"less" command. I guess I figured that Linux users probably knew how
to run the "less" command.


> would be nice if you could present moresys:
>
> type fdauto.bat >more$
>
>  ;-)

I never remember about MORESYS, so I never remember it's there.
Actually, MORESYS isn't loaded by default on FreeDOS 1.3 RC4 anyway,
so the command wouldn't work in a "stock" FreeDOS 1.3 RC4. On almost
all my YouTube videos, I try to use a "stock" FreeDOS if I can, so
it's easier for folks to reproduce what I'm doing.

But if I ever do a video about "different ways to view files on
FreeDOS" I'll be sure to cover MORESYS.


> what are the alternate _move _move _tee and
> _choice versions about? what are jemfbhlp,
> umbm + cpucache? why himemx + himemx2? why
> debug, debugx, debugxg, debugxd + debugxe?
> quite a collection of alternate "debug"!
>

I think you're referring to around 8:03 in the video when you can see
the output of DIR in the BIN directory. I hadn't really looked at them
before. But I just looked now (as you could have) and _move _more _tee
and _choice each seem to be a slightly smaller version of the full
commands, also in that directory. For example, "_CHOICE /?" gives a
message that indicates it's the same version as CHOICE, also in BIN.

At a guess, maybe these are UPX'd versions? Or maybe it's a leftover
from some earlier setup to create the RC4 LiveCD.


> note the dir size layout bug at 8:20
>

You should be more specific. What you're referring to is the
long-standing bug where DIR output doesn't force a newline before the
summary. For what it's worth, this appears to be fixed in FreeCOM
0.85.


> amb should probably give a hint on how
> to not quit (at "press esc again").
>
>  :-)
>

You're referring to the "PRESS ESC AGAIN TO QUIT" message at about
10:20 in the video.

Hitting a different key to "not quit" hasn't bothered me. But if it
bothers you, you could enter a bug about it, or mention it to Mateusz
(the author/maintainer of AMB). But I am not Mateusz.

:-)


Jim


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Re: [Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jim Hall]

(Eric replied to me off-list about the "Installing FreeDOS 1.3 RC4"
video, but this is probably interesting to other FreeDOS users, so I'm
replying to the list)

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 4:40 PM Jim Hall  wrote:
>>
>> Did you know FreeDOS has a YouTube channel? I post a variety of videos
>> there, about using FreeDOS, programming on DOS, running DOS
>> applications, and playing DOS games.
>> (https://www.youtube.com/freedosproject)
>>
>> Folks have asked if I can share highlights from some of the YouTube
>> videos, and I try to post something on the email list every 1 or 2
>> months:
>>[...]

On Mon, Jun 14, 2021 at 5:27 PM Eric Auer  wrote:
> hi!
>
> your https://youtu.be/SCkr95Yrszw?t=58
> shows some odd kernel and memdisk errors.
>
> as you know, insisting on partitioning and
> formatting everything is pretty evil, but
> apparently we disagree on that point...
>

The error you're referring to at time index 0:58 in the video is
because the disk image is entirely blank. The disk has not been
partitioned yet, so there's no partition table. The error is:

> - InitDiskillegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0
>illegal partition table - drive 00 sector 0

After I install, there's another kernel message about the disk, but
you need to be REALLY FAST to see it. It's at 5:26 in the video, near
the end, and says:

> - InitDiskWARNING: using suspect partition Pri:1 FS 06: with calculated values
>608-15-63 instead of...

(but the message disappears too quickly for me to read it .. and I
can't seem to pause at the right spot to see the whole message)

Similarly, when using a 500MB virtual disk image, I get a similar
message after installing:

> - InitDiskWARNING: using suspect partition Pri:1 FS 06: with calculated values
>1014-15-63 instead of 1015-15-63

..but this doesn't impede running FreeDOS afterwards. Actually, I
don't ever see the message anyway, because the FDCONFIG menu comes up
immediately afterwards, effectively hiding the error. I only found
that warning message now by deleting my FDCONFIG.SYS file, and looking
for the warning.


> there should be an easy upgrade from other
> dos, without fdisk and format, which does
> not destroy all your already present data.
>

Yes, I posted that video over the weekend, about using the Advanced Setup:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gxo0wPJgIm8


> reboot should not use warmboot, but coldboot.
>

I think you're referring to time index 2:46 in the video, after
partitioning, when the system reboots and you can briefly see the
"warmboot" message.

The difference is: (from "FDAPM /?")
>COLDboot / WARMboot - do a reboot with / without BIOS tests (POST)

I guess I'm unclear why BIOS tests matter at this reboot, after
partitioning the system. Maybe I'm forgetting the POST details, but I
didn't think the BIOS tests added much after you've already cold
booted the system once (to do the partitioning).


> the installer should probably tell you for
> each reboot from which medium you should
> boot next.
>

Like, a message printed after "Your computer should now reboot"?


> hopefully the bugs in the default config
> and autoexec will be fixed, too.
>

Can you be more specific?


[and then I think you commented on some of the YouTube comments:]

> > 1:17: Should be "Deutsch" instead of "Deutsche".
> > the first means "German", the latter "Germans"
>

This is a comment from YouTube user lucius1976.

I think Jerome will have this updated for the next release.


> > how do i get the sound to work.
>
> the answer is that at least mpxplay works.
>
>  :-)
>

This is a comment from YouTube user CyBeRTRoN FLuX.

On YouTube, I answered with this:

>DOS applications support sound, not DOS itself. And AC97 sound
>hardware dates from 1997, when game companies weren't writing DOS
>games anymore. AC97 is a different interface than SoundBlaster,
>the most common sound card in the DOS era.
>
>I believe TEMU (Tandy Emulator) has a Virtual
>SoundBlaster ("VSB") and you might try that. Link to GitHub is
>https://github.com/volkertb/temu-vsb

This question about sound comes up from time to time, and usually from
people who haven't used DOS before and have installed FreeDOS on a
bare metal machine manufactured after AC97. Folks will ask why DOOM or
some other game doesn't recognize their (modern) sound, so they can't
get sound to work in games.


Jim


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[Freedos-user] Reminder about the FreeDOS YouTube channel

[Jim Hall]

Did you know FreeDOS has a YouTube channel? I post a variety of videos
there, about using FreeDOS, programming on DOS, running DOS
applications, and playing DOS games.
(https://www.youtube.com/freedosproject)

Folks have asked if I can share highlights from some of the YouTube
videos, and I try to post something on the email list every 1 or 2
months:

Recently, we've posted an introduction to FreeDOS 1.3 RC4 and a demo
about how to install FreeDOS 1.3 RC4. We also talk about using
FreeDOS, like using AMB to read ebooks, or how to use Unzip to install
programs. You might also like the gameplay videos, such as playing
Commander Keen and playing TIE Fighter. We cover other topics too,
like how to edit a web page, and our April 1st video about writing a
spreadsheet program - and if you're curious, here's how we did that.

Don't forget to Subscribe to the channel for the latest new videos.


Links to some interesting videos:

Introduction to FreeDOS 1.3 RC4
https://youtu.be/76V0EpXY6Eo

How to install FreeDOS 1.3 RC4
https://youtu.be/SCkr95Yrszw

Using AMB to read ebooks
https://youtu.be/z3CYrRHx9Ls

Unzipping archives
https://youtu.be/K-WuR-DXrwo

Playing Commander Keen
https://youtu.be/1zuU_eGLEYg

Playing TIE Fighter (the only video I recorded not on FreeDOS, but on
DOSBox, because it helped me use my modern USB flight stick - which
you need for a space flight sim)
https://youtu.be/DgcZ7_653FY

How to edit a web page
https://youtu.be/Ot0HWSBguX4

April 1st video
https://youtu.be/aEQxB5mEuwE

How I did the April 1st video
https://youtu.be/Zvli335rkdw


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