[Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Alex Horvath
Hi,
 
I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on a
second partition and dual boot. 
 
I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
Partition Magic.
I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
existing primary partition.
 
What am I doing wrong?
 
If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
 
Thanks
 
 
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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Alex Horvath schreef:
 Hi,
  
 I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on 
 a second partition and dual boot.
  
 I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using 
 Partition Magic.
 I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
 However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which 
 partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the 
 existing primary partition.
Most DOS flavours will only be bootable on primary FAT12/16/32 
partitions. It's not recommended to install on Logical partitions inside 
an extended partition.
I'm not quite sure FreeDOS installation procedure demands (and is able 
to verify) a primary FAT partition.

As you got Partition Magic, I'd recommend to delete the logical and 
extended partition, and instead create a Primary partition using FAT 
filesystem.
To my knowledge Vista only installs on NTFS, and FreeDOS cannot see any 
NTFS partitions (doesn't recognize them), so there's no chance you'll 
ruin your Vista partition unless you actually delete partitions using PM 
or Fdisk for example.

For dualbooting, i think you can add FreeDOS to the Windows menu. 
Possibly you'd have to save the FreeDOS bootsector to a file then first.
(see SYS /?)
 What am I doing wrong?
  
 If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can 
 make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
Never considered an emulator?

Bernd


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Jim Hall
I recommend using a boot manager. There are several free ones out there:
* GRUB http://www.gnu.org/software/grub/
* XOSL http://www.ranish.com/part/xosl.htm
* GAG http://gag.sourceforge.net/

I haven't used them with FreeDOS (I use GRUB to boot my Linux box, but
not dual-boot) but I know others have. I used to use V Communications'
System Commander
http://www.v-com.com/product/System_Commander_Home.html which was
quite nice.


But as Bernd suggests: have you considered using a PC emulator to boot
FreeDOS? I find this makes it very easy for new users to install
FreeDOS, especially if you do not need a dedicated PC (for example,
for running embedded systems.) If you just want to boot FreeDOS to
play games or to run old business software, it may be better to run
VMWare or VirtualPC to create a virtual computer on which you can
install FreeDOS.  I use both DOSEmu and VMWare on my system for
experimenting with different things under FreeDOS.


-jh


On 8/6/07, Bernd Blaauw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Alex Horvath schreef:
  Hi,
 
  I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos on
  a second partition and dual boot.
 
  I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
  Partition Magic.
  I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
  However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
  partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
  existing primary partition.
 Most DOS flavours will only be bootable on primary FAT12/16/32
 partitions. It's not recommended to install on Logical partitions inside
 an extended partition.
 I'm not quite sure FreeDOS installation procedure demands (and is able
 to verify) a primary FAT partition.

 As you got Partition Magic, I'd recommend to delete the logical and
 extended partition, and instead create a Primary partition using FAT
 filesystem.
 To my knowledge Vista only installs on NTFS, and FreeDOS cannot see any
 NTFS partitions (doesn't recognize them), so there's no chance you'll
 ruin your Vista partition unless you actually delete partitions using PM
 or Fdisk for example.

 For dualbooting, i think you can add FreeDOS to the Windows menu.
 Possibly you'd have to save the FreeDOS bootsector to a file then first.
 (see SYS /?)
  What am I doing wrong?
 
  If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
  make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
 Never considered an emulator?

 Bernd


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Jim Hall
Here are two links for emulators:

* Virtual PC
http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx

* VMWare server (free)
http://www.vmware.com/products/server/


However, since you will be using FreeDOS to test hardware, you don't
want to run an emulator. The host OS (Vista) will be presenting the
PCMCIA hardware to you, so if 1/100 will crash the OS, you'll crash
the host OS (Vista) before you crash the guest OS (FreeDOS). Really,
you do want to run FreeDOS using dual-boot. Back to the start, I
guess. Use one of the boot managers I pointed to in my other email to
you. That's probably the easiest way to do it.

-jh


On 8/6/07, Alex Horvath [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Thanks,

 I noticed that it goes to a C: drive when I say return to command prompt
 and there are no files in C: so it's doing what it's supposed to.

 Can you point me to some info on emulators?

 FYI, what we are trying to do is make a dedicated test computer for
 production test of PCMCIA cards. DOS is preferable to windows for many
 reasons. For example, about 1 in 100 PCMCIA cards is defective and it
 usually crashes the computer. Not that it won't crash the computer with
 DOS but it will boot up in seconds vs. minutes and it's also easier to
 find DOS literate operators than windows literate operators.

 Of course it's all dependent on getting a Panasonic DOS USB driver to
 work, which is a non-supported mode.

 Thanks


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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Alex Horvath
You're right about the partitions - it's been a while and I forgot.

You're also right about the Vista disks - none came with the computer.

And, it did blow away Vista so I'm committed now.

But at least the FreeDos Install was successful!

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Dalzell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:11 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Alex Horvath wrote:

AH Hi,
AH 
AH I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos
on a AH second partition and dual boot. 
AH 
AH I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
AH Partition Magic.
AH I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
AH However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
AH partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the AH
existing primary partition.
AH 
AH What am I doing wrong?

I do not mean to sound as if I am talking down or anything but:

Normally you can have as many as 4 primary partitions on a harddrive. 
You only have to make logical partitions within an extended partition if
you need more than 4 primary partitions.

Here is a page with basic information on partitions.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

Before you blow away your vista install make sure you actually have a
set of vista disks that came with your machine. These days some new
machines do not actually have a full set of operating disks.

Another partition editor which is free is Ranish Partiion editor 

www.ranish.com


AH 
AH If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
AH make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
AH 
AH Thanks
AH 
AH 
AH 

~~~
   Bonnie Dalzell, MA mail:5100 Hydes Rd  Hydes
MD USA 21082-EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd  iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.

Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/  BUSINESS http://www.batw.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Alex,

 I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
 Partition Magic.

Note that you should not make it too small - it should not be FAT12
and it should not be 32 MB or less, if you ask me. Actually a full
install can be around 150 MB :-). Extended partitions are a bit
tricky to boot from, so you will probably need a boot manager, as
the other people on the list already said.

 However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
 partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the
 existing primary partition.

How do you know? It wants to format the first FAT partition on the
drive, and if your Windows is NTFS (as most XP / 2000 / 2003 / Vista
installs are) then it will not get a drive letter from DOS anyway...

 If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
 make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.

DOS can only damage data on FAT partitions, unless of course you run
a tool like FDISK to modify the partitioning itself. You should not
use DOS FDISK, as it is far too easy to end up being unable to access
your existing data any more (only an expert could fix it again then).
Luckily there are gparted bootable cdroms (gparted is a Linux tool but
you need no Linux experience to use a gparted cdrom) and things like
Partition Magic and similar :-).

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Alex Horvath
Sorry for all the newbie posts -

FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a _ character and no
response to keyboard input.

If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.

Anything I can check? 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Alex
Horvath
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:27 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

You're right about the partitions - it's been a while and I forgot.

You're also right about the Vista disks - none came with the computer.

And, it did blow away Vista so I'm committed now.

But at least the FreeDos Install was successful!

 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bonnie
Dalzell
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:11 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

On Mon, 6 Aug 2007, Alex Horvath wrote:

AH Hi,
AH 
AH I have a new Windows Vista laptop. I would like to install FreeDos
on a AH second partition and dual boot. 
AH 
AH I created a small extended partition and formatted it as FAT using
AH Partition Magic.
AH I then boot to the FreeDos CD and start the install process.
AH However, the FreeDos installer does not give me any choice to which
AH partition it will install to and I think it wants to reformat the AH
existing primary partition.
AH 
AH What am I doing wrong?

I do not mean to sound as if I am talking down or anything but:

Normally you can have as many as 4 primary partitions on a harddrive. 
You only have to make logical partitions within an extended partition if
you need more than 4 primary partitions.

Here is a page with basic information on partitions.

http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/file/structPartitions-c.html

Before you blow away your vista install make sure you actually have a
set of vista disks that came with your machine. These days some new
machines do not actually have a full set of operating disks.

Another partition editor which is free is Ranish Partiion editor 

www.ranish.com


AH 
AH If I have to I can blow away windows but we'd like to be sure we can
AH make FreeDos + our app work first on a second partition.
AH 
AH Thanks
AH 
AH 
AH 

~~~
   Bonnie Dalzell, MA mail:5100 Hydes Rd  Hydes
MD USA 21082-EMAIL:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

freelance anatomist, vertebrate paleontologist, writer, illustrator, dog
breeder, computer nerd  iconoclast... Borzoi info at www.borzois.com.

Editor Net.Pet Online Animal Magazine  - http://www.netpetmagazine.com
HOME http://www.qis.net/~borzoi/  BUSINESS http://www.batw.com



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Bernd Blaauw
Alex Horvath schreef:
 Sorry for all the newbie posts -

 FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a _ character and no
 response to keyboard input.

 If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.

 Anything I can check? 
   
Let's see, a very basic installation has the following:
* Harddisk
  -Master Boot Record (MBR, contains partition table and keeps up which 
partition should be booted)
  - FAT formatted primary partition, it needs to be set Active in your 
partitioning tool
 - Bootsector (operating system dependent)
 - operating system's kernel (FreeDOS: C:\KERNEL.SYS)
 - some kind of user interface (FreeDOS:  C:\COMMAND.COM)

Easiest is to check if these files exist with DIR C:\
Also transfer system files and the bootsector with SYS C: (or SYS A: C:)
In case MBR needs to be rewritten, do a FDISK /MBR



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Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

2007-08-06 Thread Alex Horvath
That was it Bernd, partition was not set active. 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Bernd
Blaauw
Sent: Monday, August 06, 2007 12:49 PM
To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net
Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Can't install FreeDos on extended partition?

Alex Horvath schreef:
 Sorry for all the newbie posts -

 FreeDos did install but when I boot all I get is a _ character and 
 no response to keyboard input.

 If I boot from the FreeDos CD I can the FreeDos files on C:.

 Anything I can check? 
   
Let's see, a very basic installation has the following:
* Harddisk
  -Master Boot Record (MBR, contains partition table and keeps up which
partition should be booted)
  - FAT formatted primary partition, it needs to be set Active in your
partitioning tool
 - Bootsector (operating system dependent)
 - operating system's kernel (FreeDOS: C:\KERNEL.SYS)
 - some kind of user interface (FreeDOS:  C:\COMMAND.COM)

Easiest is to check if these files exist with DIR C:\ Also transfer
system files and the bootsector with SYS C: (or SYS A: C:) In case MBR
needs to be rewritten, do a FDISK /MBR




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