Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-17 Thread Thomas Mueller

I see a subject line of No subject; I must have forgotten to copy the 
intended subject line.

Going back to 2001, I used Enhanced Editor (EPM) in OS/2 Warp 4, but was forced 
off this editor cold-turkey when the system crashed sometime during the 
single-digit days of April 2001.

CHKDSK, running automatically upon reboot, ran amok and trashed my data, and I 
was never again able to boot OS/2, even from floppies, it always trapped (000c 
or 000e).

So then I used Tiny Editor (T.EXE) and DOS port of elvis in DR-DOS 7.03.  As I 
tried to retrieve data, I ran DR-DOS from floppy and Iomega Zip 250.  

Tiny Editor was more beginner-friendly, but elvis was much more capable.

I believe the vi I use is nvi, not ported to DOS as far as I can see.  NetBSD 
calls it vi, while FreeBSD calls it both vi and nvi, hard-linked.

FreeBSD but not NetBSD also has ee (Easy Editor).

Gentoo (Linux) likes to use nano when I prefer nvi!

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-16 Thread Don Flowers
It would seem that is the logical solution.

I thank you all for the advice.  I have compared a few editors and have
decided to start with Setedit.

I am updating a bible translation (The Concordant Literal Translation)
which I originally compiled for my BibleWorks program using UltraEdit in
Linux. The Old Testament text recently received a long overdue update and I
wish to update my text to correspond to the new one using a DOS text editor
first (for kicks - if that's OK - just to see if I can. I split the OT text
out and it loads fine and updates changes quickly.

Of course I will be backing up my efforts in Linux with UltraEdit.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:35 PM, Christopher Evans aaxiomfin...@gmail.com
wrote:

 Perhaps change it to support ems/xms blocks so you can load the rest of
 the text beyond the first 64k?

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 On Mar 13, 2015 5:16 AM, dosgeek57 donr...@gmail.com wrote:

 This is my number one request for FreeDOS 1.2/2/0.


 Can we PLEASE increase the FreeDOS edit capacity to at least match the
 capacity MS-DOS edit? I get so aggravated trying to open included .txt
 files
 with various DOS programs only to find that the file exceeds the capacity
 of
 FreeDOS edit.



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-15 Thread Don Flowers
 FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see
there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a
separate category.

Mateusz, I am a fan of your FNDPKG system and I use it in Real FreeDOS
Mode. I have customized the  all_cd to work perfectly on my various
computers (Compaq Armada 1700  1750 laptops, HP Elite 8000, Compaq D510,
HP DC5700), so I must disagree. While six (or seven if you included
setedit) does not constitute a large repository, if one desires (or needs)
to learn two or three of these editors to fit one's needs then the edit
repo is, IMHO justified (not to mention that there would be less confusion
to the end-user; I can think of several util packages that should be in the
base repo).

On the other hand if there were one editor such as your own Saucy (or FD
edit) that were capable of opening a text file of the entire Bible without
hanging (which MS-DOS edit can do)  then the edit category might not be
necessary as a separate repo.

 So why so many editors? FreeDOS EDIT works on 8086,
 if you can find any of those in your museum. It is
 also a demo use for a nice user interface toolkit,
 which you could also use to program other tools. It
 has a calendar and an ASCII table. Just a nice small
 multi-file text editor as default FreeDOS editor :-)

 But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT?

I have tested it on the largest text file which I have and that is my
current project:  a translation of the bible which is 4.3mb and it works
fine and doesn't hang. On the FreeDOS web page, the description of FreeDOS
edit is: FreeDOS improved clone of MS-DOS Edit and sadly, this is simply
not true. While it is the go to editor for batch files and FDCONFIG, I
could not recommend it as a drop-in replacement for MS-DOS EDIT.

I LOVE FreeDOS and wish it to succeed into the next decade at least;  and
this is my point, I use FreeDOS in real mode, as if it were an alternate
operating system. I am an actual (registered) user of the DOS programs that
were the ultimate programs of the DOS age: Lotus 123, dBase  WordPerfect.
Besides these, I also use on a daily basis Online Bible, Alpha Four and
Mpxplay. There is only one program that I own that currently does not work
in FreeDOS (a tsr dictionary - but I use another which is almost as good).

I don't know what the plan is going forward. I suppose that FreeDOS is
good enough as it is, but it would be way cool if it could be better -
better than the illegal but much downloaded MS-DOS 7.10.




On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 7:20 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote:

 On 13/03/2015 17:59, Don Flowers wrote:
  Is there a reason the edit category is not
  included in the fdnpkg install program or the all_cd iso?

 Actually FreeDOS categories do not translate directly into FDNPKG
 repositories.

 FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see
 there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a
 separate category:

 blocek 1.4 - A graphical text editor with unicode and pictures formats
 support
 elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly
 all vi/ex commands
 fed 2.24 - A folding text editor with color syntax highlighting and more
 mbedit 8.64 - mbedit is a full screen text editor with macro option,
 online calculator, command history buffer, hex editor a
 msedit 0.11 - Mateusz' Saucy Editor
 pico 3.96 - simple text editor in the style of the Pine Composer
 tde 5.1v - TDE is a simple, public domain, multi-file/multi-window
 binary and text file editor written for IBM PCs and close

 Setedit is not present there (package contributions welcome!)

 cheers,
 Mateusz



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-15 Thread Mateusz Viste
On 13/03/2015 17:59, Don Flowers wrote:
 Is there a reason the edit category is not
 included in the fdnpkg install program or the all_cd iso?

Actually FreeDOS categories do not translate directly into FDNPKG 
repositories.

FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see 
there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a 
separate category:

blocek 1.4 - A graphical text editor with unicode and pictures formats 
support
elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly 
all vi/ex commands
fed 2.24 - A folding text editor with color syntax highlighting and more
mbedit 8.64 - mbedit is a full screen text editor with macro option, 
online calculator, command history buffer, hex editor a
msedit 0.11 - Mateusz' Saucy Editor
pico 3.96 - simple text editor in the style of the Pine Composer
tde 5.1v - TDE is a simple, public domain, multi-file/multi-window 
binary and text file editor written for IBM PCs and close

Setedit is not present there (package contributions welcome!)

cheers,
Mateusz


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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-15 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 6:20 AM, Mateusz Viste mate...@viste.fr wrote:

 FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository.

 elvis 2.2 - a clone of vi/ex, the standard UNIX editor. Supports nearly
 all vi/ex commands

Not to nitpick, it's still a good editor (at least in features), but
isn't the 2.2 build horribly crippled for DOS? It runs out of memory
VERY easily. IIRC, some few people preferred old 1.8 for that reason.

Actually, I like vi, but I don't have any huge preference. VIM 7.1 was
last with 16-bit (limited subset) version. VIM 7.3 is last for
(abandoned) 32-bit DOS! Overall, I probably prefer VILE (32-bit
DJGPP), but for 16-bit I guess I'd go with (ancient) Stevie. There are
some others I'm mostly forgetting (e.g. newer 16-bit XVI [multi-win]
that someone compiled with OpenWatcom, which actually includes its own
32-bit vi clone).

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-15 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 8:18 AM, Don Flowers donr...@gmail.com wrote:

 FDNPKG keeps all editors inside its util repository. Currently I see
 there are 6 editors there, which seem a bit too little to create a
 separate category.

 Mateusz, I am a fan of your FNDPKG system and I use it in Real FreeDOS Mode.
 I have customized the  all_cd to work perfectly on my various computers
 (Compaq Armada 1700  1750 laptops, HP Elite 8000, Compaq D510, HP DC5700),
 so I must disagree. While six (or seven if you included setedit) does not
 constitute a large repository, if one desires (or needs)  to learn two or
 three of these editors to fit one's needs then the edit repo is, IMHO
 justified (not to mention that there would be less confusion to the
 end-user; I can think of several util packages that should be in the base
 repo).

BASE usually means FreeDOS core software, which is (mostly, as much
as possible) trying to be exactly compatible with MS-DOS. It's quite
large, IMHO, and probably includes some cruft, but overall FD people
here don't want to change/remove/add anything to it at this point.
Maybe for FreeDOS 2.0, but not for minor point releases like 1.2 (if
someone ever decides to release that).

What util packages would you add to base?

 On the other hand if there were one editor such as your own Saucy (or FD
 edit) that were capable of opening a text file of the entire Bible without
 hanging (which MS-DOS edit can do)  then the edit category might not be
 necessary as a separate repo.

My copy of (plain text) Douay Rheims from Project Gutenberg is roughly
6 MB. Is that comparable?

Usually editors don't load the whole thing into RAM, only pieces. Even
then, it depends on APIs (raw, EMS, XMS, DPMI) and cpu (8086, 286,
386). There are good 16-bit editors out there, but nothing is perfect
for all uses.

Normally, you're not going to edit the Bible anyways. (Or maybe
you're part of an official translation team or want to fix typos.)

Just use a viewer, e.g. PG (from UTIL):

http://www.freedos.org/software/?prog=pg

 But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT?

 I have tested it on the largest text file which I have and that is my
 current project:  a translation of the bible which is 4.3mb and it works
 fine and doesn't hang.

It's impossible to fit 4.3 MB entirely in conventional memory without
some kind of compression. Maybe it's using EMS (which most 8086s
didn't have), but I doubt it. More likely it's just not loading it all
at once, only in pieces. Are you sure you can view the entire file?
Try editing at the very top and then at the very bottom. It's probably
swapping to disk somewhere.

Certainly I've seen 16-bit real-mode editors that can handle 500 kb,
but there's no way to do really large files without some kind of
help (swapping to disk or expanded/extended RAM). Even just saving
changes only wouldn't work after a while although that might be more
efficient in size.

 On the FreeDOS web page, the description of FreeDOS
 edit is: FreeDOS improved clone of MS-DOS Edit and sadly, this is simply
 not true. While it is the go to editor for batch files and FDCONFIG, I
 could not recommend it as a drop-in replacement for MS-DOS EDIT.

Maybe it's a bad assumption, but I assume that people are savvy enough
to find a better editor that works for them. There are dozens of them,
so it's really not that hard. But first you have to know what you
want. If you need more than small files, you'll have to use something
else. (E.g. CC386 compiler includes his own 32-bit editor, Infopad,
which IIRC was loosely based upon D-Flat.)

 I LOVE FreeDOS and wish it to succeed into the next decade at least;

I don't want to be pessimistic, but most development has stalled (or
stabilized).

 and this is my point, I use FreeDOS in real mode, as if it were an alternate
 operating system.

Well, yes, we all use real mode, but I assume you're not running on
8088/8086. Most people don't. So just use a 386+ port of a different
editor. I like TDE, but VILE is also good. Heck, we also have GNU
Emacs 23.3 (/current/v2gnu/em2303b.zip, 40 MB) found on any DJGPP
mirror!

 I am an actual (registered) user of the DOS programs that
 were the ultimate programs of the DOS age: Lotus 123, dBase  WordPerfect.

Long dead, sadly, and hard to find.

 Besides these, I also use on a daily basis Online Bible, Alpha Four and
 Mpxplay.

I still need to figure out how to install and run OLB (under
VirtualBox: RCtrl-Home??; under QEMU: Ctrl-Alt-2, change floppy0
/rugxulo/blah.img)!!!

I've got (unreleased 0.2) MetaDOS floppy .img. I did make it 100%
transparent to recompile the (patched) kernel and download OLB from
Simtel mirror. Other than that, I haven't figured out install yet.

 There is only one program that I own that currently does not work
 in FreeDOS (a tsr dictionary - but I use another which is almost as good).

I don't know, I haven't used lots of DOS dictionaries, thesauruses,
spell checkers, etc. Some few exist (ispell?), but I 

Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-14 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Don Flowers donr...@gmail.com wrote:

 I had actually forgotten about setedit (and have probably forgotten how to
 use it as well). Is there a reason the edit category is not included in
 the fdnpkg install program or the all_cd iso? I don't mind relearning it.
 I downloaded it, but it won't start and I apparently didn't get all of the
 program. Am I using the wrong repo?

What file did you download? Not that I've used SETEDIT except out of
curiosity once or twice. IIRC, it was last updated for DJGPP in 2004,
and you have to use the installer version. (I don't remember about
the other *b.zip version, maybe that assumes installing into your
DJGPP tree??)

Try this:

http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/edit/setedit/edi054i.zip

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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-14 Thread Rugxulo
Hi,

On Fri, Mar 13, 2015 at 10:52 AM, Eric Auer e.a...@jpberlin.de wrote:

 This is my number one request for FreeDOS 1.2/2/0.

 Can we PLEASE increase the FreeDOS edit capacity to at least match the
 capacity MS-DOS edit? I get so aggravated trying to open included .txt files
 with various DOS programs only to find that the file exceeds the capacity of
 FreeDOS edit.

While it's not impossible for an 8086 text editor to edit larger
files, most developers either don't know how or don't care enough. (Be
glad it's 64 kb. Some editors [e.g. e3-16] are 32 kb!!!) I could try
to point you to a dozen others, but I don't know how easy they are to
rebuild (if at all).

 But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT?

Dunno. Unless it swaps to disk, it's probably much less than 640 kb,
obviously. Unless it uses raw or EMS or XMS (or DPMI?), which I
doubt.

Years ago, Mateusz made his own Saucy Editor in a similar style to
MS EDIT, if you want to try it. IIRC, it's compiled by FreeBASIC, thus
DJGPP-based (like most other semi-current DOS editors). Though it's
not really maintained anymore, apparently.

http://sourceforge.net/projects/msedit/files/msedit/v0.11/msedit_v011.zip/download

 I just tried with FreeDOS EDIT while I had 626 kB
 DOS memory free: The limit per file seems to be
 exactly 64000 bytes, but you can open several of
 those as long as you have enough memory.

Yes, that's another feature: being able to open several different
files. Obviously such a single size limit can be inconvenient if your
files are really big (which is why I don't personally use FD EDIT at
all), but it's not a bad editor. Keep in mind that the easy solution
is to port it to 386+ (DPMI etc.), which has already been suggested to
the maintainer, but he hasn't had the interest (and, most importantly,
not nearly enough time) to do it lately (AFAIK).

 Of course there are many other editors in our distro which
 you can use as alternative editors at any time:

 http://www.freedos.org/software/?cat=edit

Blocek is 32-bit (FPC, GO32V2, DPMI). Freemacs is 16-bit (TASM), also
(IIRC) limited to 64 kb per file. OSPEDIT had several different
compiles, but I can't remember the details.

The rest are compiled by DJGPP (32-bit DPMI) with maybe a limited
16-bit version on the side. Normally DJGPP-compiled apps have no
trouble editing files of dozens of MB. I use TDE (specifically, TDEP)
all the time without issue, but I don't obviously do a lot with GBs.
But for average use, it works fine.

The problem with other editors is that they are unfamiliar and not
feature-complete, compared to standard MS EDIT. Obviously,
compatibility was considered a high priority.

 For example SETEDIT and TDE let you edit files which
 are several megabytes big and Blocek and Mined even
 support Unicode!

Blocek is graphical and requires a mouse (IIRC) unlike Mined. (I'm not
complaining, just sayin'!)   ;-)

 Also, SETEDIT and TDE look similar
 enough to MS DOS EDIT, so you can enjoy them all :-)

Hmmm, well, they have menus, but otherwise aren't so similar. (AFAIK)
SETEDIT was the basis for RHIDE. But neither of them have been updated
in years. Actually, neither has TDE (still stuck to unreleased 5.2
beta with bugs, last I heard).

 (Rugxulo: Please mirror blocek 1.4b, small fix :-))

This is the first I've heard of it. (I think I'll split that into a
separate reply.)

 So why so many editors? FreeDOS EDIT works on 8086,
 if you can find any of those in your museum. It is
 also a demo use for a nice user interface toolkit,
 which you could also use to program other tools. It
 has a calendar and an ASCII table. Just a nice small
 multi-file text editor as default FreeDOS editor :-)

Yes, Aitor's port of D-Flat was important to him to separate out. I
never looked too closely, though. Not a lot happening with it lately.

 With TDE, SETEDIT or the Unicode editors, you get a
 lot more power. They work on any 386 or newer PC, in
 the Unicode case any 386 with VGA or better graphics.

Of course you can also use any editor to edit text and just convert
it later to Unicode (presumably  UTF-8). Though Mined is pretty darn
cool (as is GNU Emacs), so it's very nice to have such choices. I just
sadly don't write enough i18n stuff to need it that much.

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[Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-13 Thread dosgeek57
This is my number one request for FreeDOS 1.2/2/0.


Can we PLEASE increase the FreeDOS edit capacity to at least match the
capacity MS-DOS edit? I get so aggravated trying to open included .txt files
with various DOS programs only to find that the file exceeds the capacity of
FreeDOS edit. 



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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit maximum file size

2015-03-13 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Dosgeek!

 This is my number one request for FreeDOS 1.2/2/0.
 
 Can we PLEASE increase the FreeDOS edit capacity to at least match the
 capacity MS-DOS edit? I get so aggravated trying to open included .txt files
 with various DOS programs only to find that the file exceeds the capacity of
 FreeDOS edit. 

But what IS the maximum file size in MS DOS EDIT?

I just tried with FreeDOS EDIT while I had 626 kB
DOS memory free: The limit per file seems to be
exactly 64000 bytes, but you can open several of
those as long as you have enough memory. Of course
there are many other editors in our distro which
you can use as alternative editors at any time:

http://www.freedos.org/software/?cat=edit

For example SETEDIT and TDE let you edit files which
are several megabytes big and Blocek and Mined even
support Unicode! Also, SETEDIT and TDE look similar
enough to MS DOS EDIT, so you can enjoy them all :-)

(Rugxulo: Please mirror blocek 1.4b, small fix :-))

So why so many editors? FreeDOS EDIT works on 8086,
if you can find any of those in your museum. It is
also a demo use for a nice user interface toolkit,
which you could also use to program other tools. It
has a calendar and an ASCII table. Just a nice small
multi-file text editor as default FreeDOS editor :-)

With TDE, SETEDIT or the Unicode editors, you get a
lot more power. They work on any 386 or newer PC, in
the Unicode case any 386 with VGA or better graphics.

Cheers, Eric




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Re: [Freedos-user] FreeDOS EDIT (was XDMA, SHSUCDX and other split-version programs)

2005-06-19 Thread Jim Hall
Eric: PLEASE stop posting MULTIPLE topics in a SINGLE email.  This makes 
it very difficult for anyone to find  reply to your posts!!!  :-|



[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


More talking about split programs, by the way: EDIT 0.7c should be
better than 0.82 in most aspects at the moment, please let me know
if EDIT 0.7c is worse than 0.82 in any important way... MEM 1.7
beta is better than 1.6 as far as I can tell, and MEMA by Arkady
is mostly different but neither better nor worse than MEM, but this
is better explained by Arkady. I most probably have overlooked some
bugs or features in either of the MEMs.


Whatever.  I had tried to contact Joe Cosentino off-list, but never 
heard back from him, even after several re-attempts.  So I'll assume 
that Joe doesn't mind that Eric has forked a copy of FreeDOS EDIT.


I've mirrored Eric's releases of his new forked EDIT at ibiblio 
(http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/edit/eric/) 
and modified Eric's LSM before adding it to the Software List 
(http://freedos.sourceforge.net/cgi-bin/freedos-lsm.cgi?q=fa=base/edit-eric.lsm)


** I try not to edit other people's LSMs before adding them to the 
database, but since this involves a forked program, I didn't want to 
leave the LSM unchanged as it would confuse people.



I haven't removed Joe's FreeDOS EDIT from the Software List, but I am 
happy to do so if people tell me that Eric's FreeDOS EDIT is preferable. 
 I feel strongly that we should avoid duplication on the Software List, 
so I'd like to hear back from the group soon as to which EDIT should 
remain on the list.


If there aren't any follow-ups to this thread, I'll assume that people 
don't care, and I'll promote the EDIT that's actually got an active 
maintainer to be the new FreeDOS EDIT.


-jh


--
I'm sorry my president's an idiot. I didn't vote for him.


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[Freedos-user] FreeDOS Edit

2005-03-12 Thread root
   I think I found a bug in FreeDOS edit, but I would like to see if 
anyone else noticed this: When you try to save a text file on a floppy 
disk that is write protected, it doesn't give any error message. The 
only way I even knew that the disk was WP was that the drive made a 
funny sound when I tried to save the file. Anyone else notice this?


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