Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

none

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:40:27 + (UTC) Gregg Eshelman
 writes:
> Any plan to share this find? :)
>
>
> On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:07:19 AM MDT, Dale E Sterner
>  wrote:It is pure dos abandoned when corel went
> to windows.
> Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
> It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
> to make it unusable. There was no documentation
> with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
> Its a pity they quit on it.


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:29:48 AM MDT, dmccunney
>  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Dale E Sterner 
> wrote:
>> I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
>> have a 5.6.
>
>> The problem for both products was failure to keep up with the market.
>> Micropro took its eye off the WordStar ball and attempted to
>> diversify.  WordPerfect ate them for lunch.  Word Perfect waited too
>> long to develop a Windows version.  By the time they did, MS Word
>> owned the word processing market.

> The original WordStar for CP/M was written in Z-80 assembly language by Rob
> Barnaby , in about a month. He was the principle coder on it until the last
> release prior to 4.0.

Yep.  
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20161007172455/http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history

> When he left the company is when thing started to go
> downhill for MicroPro. WordStar for DOS used slow DOS system functions for
> the keyboard and display and lagged way behind on supporting subdirectories.

I have a copy of WS7.  You have to use the install program to specify
where things live.  It apparently isn't capable of searching the PATH
or looking in sub-directories of the install directory to find its
components.  I shook my head in wonder.

Using BIOS functions for keyboard and video was a hangover from the
origin in CP/M.

> WordPerfect for DOS was written in 8088 assembly.

Lots of things were.  One of the word processors I used was XYWrite,
which I described as a programming language for manipulating test
wrapped in an editor disguise.  The lead developer coded in Assembler
on an original 4.77 mhz IBM PC well after 25mhz AT machines were
common.  He apparently felt that if he could get it to perform well on
an original PC, it would fly on anything later.

(XYWrite survives on Windows as Nota Bene, aimed at the scholarly
market.  Nota Bene was originally an OEM repackage of XYWrite.
XYWrite was a bit like Gnu Emacs - extraordinarily powerful, but you
had to customize it to really use it, and knowing how to do so imposed
a learning curve.  Nota Bene had a much friendlier and and more easily
learned default interface, which is a reason why it still exists.
XYWrite's own Windows version was a non-starter.)

A DOS product I still use here is Eric Meyer's VDE.  VDE also dates
from the CP/M days, and was written in Z-80 assembler as an
alternative to WordStar under CP/M, using the WordStar command set.
Unlike real WordStar, VDE did everything in one file without overlays.
Eric ported it to DOS and it was a popular shareware product for
years. These days, it's supported freeware.  Eric is still around, and
there's a sporadically active VDE mailing list.  See
https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor/ for info and downloads.

> Corel was a poor steward of WordPerfect. They dropped the Macintosh version
> at 3.5e. The last Windows version released by Corel was horrible. I tried
> doing an HTML document once. I had things all laid out and saved it. The
> document opened OK in a web browser. I reloaded it into WP, made some
> changes and saved it. Checked it again in a browser and it was all screwed
> up. Reloaded into WP and it was bad there too. If you could do 100% of
> everything in HTML in one go with that version of WP for Windows, it was
> fine, but it couldn't re-open and re-save HTML that it was used to create.

That's not really a surprise.  Corel didn't write most of what they
sell.  They acquired if from others, and are essentially supporting a
static market.

I wouldn't attempt to use *any* word processor to create HTML documents.

> Microsoft had Word for Mac before they came out with a Windows version, so
> were ahead of the competition when it came to a GUI word processor.

If they wanted to support the Mac, they had to.  Mac OS Classic didn't
*have* a command line.

But yes, being an early developer for a GUI environment gave MS a
considerable leg up.
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as
opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

What has your experience been?

> In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD
checksums.

Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source license
to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because no
one was *trying* to.

> Tom
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
have a 5.6. I only use the wordperfect off the disk - yet.
Some lady on the web sells a dos wordperfect update
to 6.2 and I also bought that - Corel autherized.

cheers
DS


On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller 
> wrote:
>
> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would
> be 5.6 as opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.
>
> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>
> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.
>
> What has your experience been?
>
> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or
> BSD checksums.
>
> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source
> license
> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because
> no
> one was *trying* to.
>
> > Tom
> __
> Dennis
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

For the most part dos moves well between machines.
Did have trouble with cutemouse & jemmex. On
some machines they hang up.
What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
What difference does the L make.


cheers
DS



On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:29:26 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Dale E Sterner
>  wrote:
> > I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one
> > machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.
>
> You can't.  Windows will detect it's on a new machine, and complain.
>
> But if you run Windows, that's not something you *want* to do, or
> have
> *reason* to do.
>
> You might be able to do something like that with Linux.  How well it
> would work would depend on the machines you were moving between.
> Like
> Windows, desktop Linux pays attention to the hardware of the machine
> it's running on, so things like video and networking work as
> desired.
> I run Ubuntu Linux here because it does the best job I've seen in a
> Linux distro of figuring out what it's being installed on, setting
> itself up, and Just Working with minimal input required from the
> user.
> Just Working requires the appropriate drivers to be installed and
> loaded when the machine boots.  Different machines will have
> different
> hardware and require different drivers.
>
> > Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.
>
> So what?  And you aren't *running* DOS on Windows.  You are running
> DOS *emulation* in a virtual machine (which is essentially what
> things
> like vDOS are), which allows you to run DOS *applications* under
> Windows.  You don't *need* DOS itself in the mix.  (You could run
> DOS
> apps "native" on Win2K/XP, but *that* was emulation too.  Real DOS
> was
> nowhere to be found.)
>
> (I run an assortment of DOS apps on an Android tablet.  Android has
> a
> Linux kernel under the hood, and the tablet uses an ARM Cortex 7
> quad
> core CPU.  I run DOS apps via an Android port of DOSBox, with is a
> VM
> intended to let you play old DOS games on machines that aren't DOS
> PCs, but supports things that aren't games, too.  Look, Ma!  No DOS!
> :-) )
>
> > cheers
> > DS
> __
> Dennis
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:41 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> My experience with Gnumeric is favorable.  There are differences in syntax
and navigation with Quattro Pro for DOS.
>
> Quattro Pro three-dimensional spreadsheets are practically impossible to
import, even Excel can't do that.

How much use do you make of the 3D feature?

> Gnumeric runs on Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, but is not portable to Haiku.

No surprise, but who runs Haiku?

> Regarding BSD requiring AT source license, are you talking about FreeBSD,
NetBSD or BSDI?

I was referring to before FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD existed.

> I don't think FreeBSD and NetBSD required AT source license, even in their
early days.

They came about rather late in the game.

BSD originated as a fork of AT Unix.  Back then, AT was still Ma
Bell, the regulated national telecommunications monopoly.

AT developed Unix for internal use, and wasn't allowed to *sell* it.
They *could* give it away in unsupported source form* to accredited
educational institutions.  One institution who took them up on it was
the University of California at Berkeley, and UCB's Computer Research
Group jumped on it and ran with it.  The Berkeley Standard
Distribution was CRG's hacks on AT code, and various things they
developed like the C shell, the vi editor, and termcap found their way
back into AT Unix.  Sun Microsystems co-founder Bill Joy was a grad
student in computer science at UCB, and principal architect of BSD
Unix.  (Guess which flavor of Unix Sun chose for their systems when
they started making boxes? :-) )  BSD was adopted by other
institutions, but because it had roots in and still contained AT
code, you needed an AT source license to run it.

* A friend active back then said you *could* get support from AT -
you just had to know who to call at Bell Labs and have a verifiable
bug to report or suggestion or question they considered interesting.
:-)

Things changed after the consent decree that ended the Justice
Department anti-trust suit against AT, and AT got broken up into
the Baby Bells.  AT was able to get into the computer business, and
AT System V became the basis of various commercial offerings.  AT
also sold hardware, both manufactured internally by Western Electric
(the 3B2 line), acquired from elsewhere in an OEM deal (The AT
Unix-PS and 3B1 machines, made by Convergent Technologies, which is
part of Unisys now), and PCs made by Olivetti, who AT bought.

BSD code was steadily modified to remove any code originally developed
by AT, and offerings like FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD were the
result.

The Gnu Project had already produced open source versions of the
standard utilities that came with Unix, and both Linux and *BSD
bundled them.  Essentially, what differed between Linux and BSD was
the OS kernel.

> I remember when FreeBSD floppy boot disks would hang "Probing for
devices...", and I couldn't get any further.

That's an area Linux has gotten a lot better about, and a reason I run
Ubuntu.  The.last I looked, BSD was still "batteries not included" and
"some assembly required", so it never got the penetration Linux did.

> Tom
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Gregg Eshelman
From: Gregg Eshelman 

--===2748568669217627302==
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Any plan to share this find? :)


On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:07:19 AM MDT, Dale E Sterner 
wrote:It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
to make it unusable. There was no documentation
with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
Its a pity they quit on it.

--=_Part_3497302_1237270095.1493073627563
Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit

Any
plan to share this find? 
:)On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:07:19 AM MDT, Dale E 
Sterner sunbeam...@juno.com wrote:It is pure 
dos abandoned when corel went to windows.Sounded like 
it came out of the trash can type.It is somewhat 
unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothingto make it 
unusable. There was no documentation with it. Just a 
corel factory made cd.Its a pity they quit on 
it.
--=_Part_3497302_1237270095.1493073627563--


--===2748568669217627302==
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"
MIME-Version: 1.0
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one
machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.
Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.

cheers
DS



On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:29:06 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Dale E Sterner
>  wrote:
> > It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
> > Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
> > It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
> > to make it unusable. There was no documentation
> > with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
> > Its a pity they quit on it.
>
> Corel is a commercial software producer, making its living *selling*
> software.
>
> They dropped out of the DOS market because there no longer *was* a
> DOS
> market. Almost everyone had moved to Windows.
>
> That's not "pity", it's *survival*.
> __
> Dennis
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

thanks

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:23:17 -0700 Ralf Quint 
writes:
> On 4/24/2017 11:03 AM, Dale E Sterner wrote:
> > What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> > What difference does the L make.
> The windows manager used...
>
> Ubuntu, as in the main distro, is using Gnome 3 as the default
> window
> manager (after they finally abandoned that stupid Unity carp),
> Lubuntu
> is instead using the more lightweight LXDE windows manager, and just
> to
> preempt further questions, Xunbuntu is using Xfce, Kubuntu  KDE as
> their
> windows manager...
>
> Ralf
>
> ---
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>
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
> have a 5.6.

As it happens, there was, as Felix Miata noted.   But versions *can*
be skipped by vendors.

> I only use the wordperfect off the disk - yet.
> Some lady on the web sells a dos wordperfect update
> to 6.2 and I also bought that - Corel autherized.

There are holdouts still running DOS software, but not under DOS.
There's a WordPerfect for DOS fan site with information on how to make
it work on Windows using vDOS.  There are similar folks doing the same
thing to continue running WordStar.  Noted SF author Robert Sawyer
maintains a WordStar page on his website with chapter and verse on
using vDOS to run WordStar under Windows.

The problem for both products was failure to keep up with the market.
Micropro took its eye off the WordStar ball and attempted to
diversify.  WordPerfect ate them for lunch.  Word Perfect waited too
long to develop a Windows version.  By the time they did, MS Word
owned the word processing market.

I know people who still use WordStar or WordPerfect, but also keep
Word around.  They are writers selling content, and what the editors
they sell to expect to see is a Word document.  They may compose in WP
or WS, but import to Word for submission draft.

> cheers
> DS
__
Dennis

> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 dmccunney 
> writes:
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would
>> be 5.6 as opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.
>>
>> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
>> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
>> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>>
>> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.
>>
>> What has your experience been?
>>
>> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or
>> BSD checksums.
>>
>> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source
>> license
>> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
>> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because
>> no
>> one was *trying* to.
>>
>> > Tom
>> __
>> Dennis
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519
>>
>>
> -
> -
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>
>
> **
> >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
> ***
>
> 
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> Navajo Hearing System
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Ralf Quint
From: Ralf Quint 

On 4/24/2017 11:03 AM, Dale E Sterner wrote:
> What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> What difference does the L make.
The windows manager used...

Ubuntu, as in the main distro, is using Gnome 3 as the default window
manager (after they finally abandoned that stupid Unity carp), Lubuntu
is instead using the more lightweight LXDE windows manager, and just to
preempt further questions, Xunbuntu is using Xfce, Kubuntu  KDE as their
windows manager...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one
> machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.

You can't.  Windows will detect it's on a new machine, and complain.

But if you run Windows, that's not something you *want* to do, or have
*reason* to do.

You might be able to do something like that with Linux.  How well it
would work would depend on the machines you were moving between.  Like
Windows, desktop Linux pays attention to the hardware of the machine
it's running on, so things like video and networking work as desired.
I run Ubuntu Linux here because it does the best job I've seen in a
Linux distro of figuring out what it's being installed on, setting
itself up, and Just Working with minimal input required from the user.
Just Working requires the appropriate drivers to be installed and
loaded when the machine boots.  Different machines will have different
hardware and require different drivers.

> Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.

So what?  And you aren't *running* DOS on Windows.  You are running
DOS *emulation* in a virtual machine (which is essentially what things
like vDOS are), which allows you to run DOS *applications* under
Windows.  You don't *need* DOS itself in the mix.  (You could run DOS
apps "native" on Win2K/XP, but *that* was emulation too.  Real DOS was
nowhere to be found.)

(I run an assortment of DOS apps on an Android tablet.  Android has a
Linux kernel under the hood, and the tablet uses an ARM Cortex 7 quad
core CPU.  I run DOS apps via an Android port of DOSBox, with is a VM
intended to let you play old DOS games on machines that aren't DOS
PCs, but supports things that aren't games, too.  Look, Ma!  No DOS!
:-) )

> cheers
> DS
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Thomas Mueller
From: "Thomas Mueller" 

from dmccunney:

> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as
opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

> What has your experience been?

> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD
checksums.

> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source license
> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because no
> one was *trying* to.

> Tom

> Dennis

My experience with Gnumeric is favorable.  There are differences in syntax and
navigation with Quattro Pro for DOS.

Quattro Pro three-dimensional spreadsheets are practically impossible to
import, even Excel can't do that.

Gnumeric runs on Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, but is not portable to Haiku.

Regarding BSD requiring AT source license, are you talking about FreeBSD,
NetBSD or BSDI?

I don't think FreeBSD and NetBSD required AT source license, even in their
early days.

I remember when FreeBSD floppy boot disks would hang "Probing for devices...",
and I couldn't get any further.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread dmccunney
From: dmccunney 

On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> For the most part dos moves well between machines.
> Did have trouble with cutemouse & jemmex. On
> some machines they hang up.

So even DOS can be sensitive to hardware differences.  :-p

> What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> What difference does the L make.

The default GUI.

In Windows, the GUI is part of the OS, and you boot into the standard
Windows GUI.  (You *can* boot to a command line, by diddling the
registry to change Windows' idea of the default shell to CMD.EXE.  You
really don't *want* to.)

In Linux, the GUI is a layered product, running on top of the OS.  You
can boot a Linux system to a command line and not *use* a GUI, though
once again, you may not want to.

Ubuntu is a Linux distribution built on top of Debian Linux.  A major
difference between Linux distributions is what GUI they use as the
default.  There are *many* available GUIs for Linux.

The main Ubuntu distribution defaulted to a GUI developed by Ubuntu
parent company Canonical, Ltd, called Unity.  Unity was attempting to
be a "one size fits all" GUI that would run on desktop, laptop,
netbook, tablet, and smartphone.  It was optimized for systems where
the scarce resource was screen real estate, and you might access stuff
through a touch screen.  It was a good fit for a tablet, but fell down
on a large monitor. Ubuntu has recently halted development on Unity
and anointed Gnome as the standard GUI.

Ubuntu is available in other flavors as Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Lubuntu.
Kubuntu installs the KDE desktop as the default.  Lubuntu installs the
Lxde desktop.  Xubuntu installs the XFCE desktop.

You are not limited to the default.  You can install others, and
select which you wish to use at the Login screen.  On the desktop, I
have Unity, Gnome Classic, Enlightenment, Lxde and XFCE installed, and
spend most time in Gnome.  On the old netbook, I use Lubuntu, with
Lxde, as it's a lightweight desktop intended for lower resource
machines.

(Back when, I ran a version of Red Hat Linux with a desktop designed
to look as much as possible like Win95 to ease transition for folks
coming from Windows.)
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Dale E Sterner
From: Dale E Sterner 

It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
to make it unusable. There was no documentation
with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
Its a pity they quit on it.




On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:03:26 +0200 Eric Auer  writes:
>
> Hi Dale,
>
> is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
> unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
> And of course, what is included? Which license?
>
> Cheers, Eric
>
> ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
> freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"
>
>
>
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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3 Harmful Foods
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Eric Auer
From: Eric Auer 


Hi Dale,

is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
And of course, what is included? Which license?

Cheers, Eric

ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"



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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-05-06 Thread Thomas Mueller
From: "Thomas Mueller" 

from Dale Sterner:

> On Ebay I purchased a cd with unreleased Corel dos
> software. There would have been a 5.6 version had it been
> released. Some woman got it from a boyfriend who
> worked for Corel and then sold it on Ebay for about $150.
> I was high bid.

Eric Auer:

Hi Dale,

> is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
> unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
> And of course, what is included? Which license?

> Cheers, Eric

> ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
> freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"

It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as
opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD checksums.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-25 Thread Dale E Sterner
none

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 22:40:27 + (UTC) Gregg Eshelman
 writes:
> Any plan to share this find? :)
> 
> 
> On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:07:19 AM MDT, Dale E Sterner 
>  wrote:It is pure dos abandoned when corel went 
> to windows.
> Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
> It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
> to make it unusable. There was no documentation 
> with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
> Its a pity they quit on it.


**
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***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-25 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:46 PM, Gregg Eshelman  wrote:
> On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:29:48 AM MDT, dmccunney
>  wrote:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Dale E Sterner 
> wrote:
>> I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
>> have a 5.6.
>
>> The problem for both products was failure to keep up with the market.
>> Micropro took its eye off the WordStar ball and attempted to
>> diversify.  WordPerfect ate them for lunch.  Word Perfect waited too
>> long to develop a Windows version.  By the time they did, MS Word
>> owned the word processing market.

> The original WordStar for CP/M was written in Z-80 assembly language by Rob
> Barnaby , in about a month. He was the principle coder on it until the last
> release prior to 4.0.

Yep.  
https://web-beta.archive.org/web/20161007172455/http://www.wordstar.org/index.php/wordstar-history

> When he left the company is when thing started to go
> downhill for MicroPro. WordStar for DOS used slow DOS system functions for
> the keyboard and display and lagged way behind on supporting subdirectories.

I have a copy of WS7.  You have to use the install program to specify
where things live.  It apparently isn't capable of searching the PATH
or looking in sub-directories of the install directory to find its
components.  I shook my head in wonder.

Using BIOS functions for keyboard and video was a hangover from the
origin in CP/M.

> WordPerfect for DOS was written in 8088 assembly.

Lots of things were.  One of the word processors I used was XYWrite,
which I described as a programming language for manipulating test
wrapped in an editor disguise.  The lead developer coded in Assembler
on an original 4.77 mhz IBM PC well after 25mhz AT machines were
common.  He apparently felt that if he could get it to perform well on
an original PC, it would fly on anything later.

(XYWrite survives on Windows as Nota Bene, aimed at the scholarly
market.  Nota Bene was originally an OEM repackage of XYWrite.
XYWrite was a bit like Gnu Emacs - extraordinarily powerful, but you
had to customize it to really use it, and knowing how to do so imposed
a learning curve.  Nota Bene had a much friendlier and and more easily
learned default interface, which is a reason why it still exists.
XYWrite's own Windows version was a non-starter.)

A DOS product I still use here is Eric Meyer's VDE.  VDE also dates
from the CP/M days, and was written in Z-80 assembler as an
alternative to WordStar under CP/M, using the WordStar command set.
Unlike real WordStar, VDE did everything in one file without overlays.
Eric ported it to DOS and it was a popular shareware product for
years. These days, it's supported freeware.  Eric is still around, and
there's a sporadically active VDE mailing list.  See
https://sites.google.com/site/vdeeditor/ for info and downloads.

> Corel was a poor steward of WordPerfect. They dropped the Macintosh version
> at 3.5e. The last Windows version released by Corel was horrible. I tried
> doing an HTML document once. I had things all laid out and saved it. The
> document opened OK in a web browser. I reloaded it into WP, made some
> changes and saved it. Checked it again in a browser and it was all screwed
> up. Reloaded into WP and it was bad there too. If you could do 100% of
> everything in HTML in one go with that version of WP for Windows, it was
> fine, but it couldn't re-open and re-save HTML that it was used to create.

That's not really a surprise.  Corel didn't write most of what they
sell.  They acquired if from others, and are essentially supporting a
static market.

I wouldn't attempt to use *any* word processor to create HTML documents.

> Microsoft had Word for Mac before they came out with a Windows version, so
> were ahead of the competition when it came to a GUI word processor.

If they wanted to support the Mac, they had to.  Mac OS Classic didn't
*have* a command line.

But yes, being an early developer for a GUI environment gave MS a
considerable leg up.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 9:41 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> My experience with Gnumeric is favorable.  There are differences in syntax 
> and navigation with Quattro Pro for DOS.
>
> Quattro Pro three-dimensional spreadsheets are practically impossible to 
> import, even Excel can't do that.

How much use do you make of the 3D feature?

> Gnumeric runs on Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, but is not portable to Haiku.

No surprise, but who runs Haiku?

> Regarding BSD requiring AT source license, are you talking about FreeBSD, 
> NetBSD or BSDI?

I was referring to before FreeBSD, NetBSD and OpenBSD existed.

> I don't think FreeBSD and NetBSD required AT source license, even in their 
> early days.

They came about rather late in the game.

BSD originated as a fork of AT Unix.  Back then, AT was still Ma
Bell, the regulated national telecommunications monopoly.

AT developed Unix for internal use, and wasn't allowed to *sell* it.
They *could* give it away in unsupported source form* to accredited
educational institutions.  One institution who took them up on it was
the University of California at Berkeley, and UCB's Computer Research
Group jumped on it and ran with it.  The Berkeley Standard
Distribution was CRG's hacks on AT code, and various things they
developed like the C shell, the vi editor, and termcap found their way
back into AT Unix.  Sun Microsystems co-founder Bill Joy was a grad
student in computer science at UCB, and principal architect of BSD
Unix.  (Guess which flavor of Unix Sun chose for their systems when
they started making boxes? :-) )  BSD was adopted by other
institutions, but because it had roots in and still contained AT
code, you needed an AT source license to run it.

* A friend active back then said you *could* get support from AT -
you just had to know who to call at Bell Labs and have a verifiable
bug to report or suggestion or question they considered interesting.
:-)

Things changed after the consent decree that ended the Justice
Department anti-trust suit against AT, and AT got broken up into
the Baby Bells.  AT was able to get into the computer business, and
AT System V became the basis of various commercial offerings.  AT
also sold hardware, both manufactured internally by Western Electric
(the 3B2 line), acquired from elsewhere in an OEM deal (The AT
Unix-PS and 3B1 machines, made by Convergent Technologies, which is
part of Unisys now), and PCs made by Olivetti, who AT bought.

BSD code was steadily modified to remove any code originally developed
by AT, and offerings like FreeBSD, NetBSD, and OpenBSD were the
result.

The Gnu Project had already produced open source versions of the
standard utilities that came with Unix, and both Linux and *BSD
bundled them.  Essentially, what differed between Linux and BSD was
the OS kernel.

> I remember when FreeBSD floppy boot disks would hang "Probing for 
> devices...", and I couldn't get any further.

That's an area Linux has gotten a lot better about, and a reason I run
Ubuntu.  The.last I looked, BSD was still "batteries not included" and
"some assembly required", so it never got the penetration Linux did.

> Tom
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Gregg Eshelman
The original WordStar for CP/M was written in Z-80 assembly language by Rob 
Barnaby, in about a month. He was the principle coder on it until the last 
release prior to 4.0. When he left the company is when thing started to go 
downhill for MicroPro. WordStar for DOS used slow DOS system functions for the 
keyboard and display and lagged way behind on supporting subdirectories. 
WordPerfect for DOS was written in 8088 assembly.

Corel was a poor steward of WordPerfect. They dropped the Macintosh version at 
3.5e. The last Windows version released by Corel was horrible. I tried doing an 
HTML document once. I had things all laid out and saved it. The document opened 
OK in a web browser. I reloaded it into WP, made some changes and saved it. 
Checked it again in a browser and it was all screwed up. Reloaded into WP and 
it was bad there too. If you could do 100% of everything in HTML in one go with 
that version of WP for Windows, it was fine, but it couldn't re-open and 
re-save HTML that it was used to create.
Microsoft had Word for Mac before they came out with a Windows version, so were 
ahead of the competition when it came to a GUI word processor.

On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:29:48 AM MDT, dmccunney 
 wrote:On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Dale E 
Sterner  wrote:
> I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
> have a 5.6.

The problem for both products was failure to keep up with the market.
Micropro took its eye off the WordStar ball and attempted to
diversify.  WordPerfect ate them for lunch.  Word Perfect waited too
long to develop a Windows version.  By the time they did, MS Word
owned the word processing market.--
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Thomas Mueller
from dmccunney:

> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as 
> > opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

> What has your experience been?

> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD 
> > checksums.

> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source license
> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because no
> one was *trying* to.

> Tom

> Dennis

My experience with Gnumeric is favorable.  There are differences in syntax and 
navigation with Quattro Pro for DOS.

Quattro Pro three-dimensional spreadsheets are practically impossible to 
import, even Excel can't do that.

Gnumeric runs on Linux, FreeBSD and NetBSD, but is not portable to Haiku.

Regarding BSD requiring AT source license, are you talking about FreeBSD, 
NetBSD or BSDI?

I don't think FreeBSD and NetBSD required AT source license, even in their 
early days.

I remember when FreeBSD floppy boot disks would hang "Probing for devices...", 
and I couldn't get any further.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Gregg Eshelman
Any plan to share this find? :)


On Monday, April 24, 2017, 9:07:19 AM MDT, Dale E Sterner  
wrote:It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
to make it unusable. There was no documentation 
with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
Its a pity they quit on it.
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
A lot to learn.

thanks



On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 14:27:13 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Dale E Sterner  
> wrote:
> > For the most part dos moves well between machines.
> > Did have trouble with cutemouse & jemmex. On
> > some machines they hang up.
> 
> So even DOS can be sensitive to hardware differences.  :-p
> 
> > What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> > What difference does the L make.
> 
> The default GUI.
> 
> In Windows, the GUI is part of the OS, and you boot into the 
> standard
> Windows GUI.  (You *can* boot to a command line, by diddling the
> registry to change Windows' idea of the default shell to CMD.EXE.  
> You
> really don't *want* to.)
> 
> In Linux, the GUI is a layered product, running on top of the OS.  
> You
> can boot a Linux system to a command line and not *use* a GUI, 
> though
> once again, you may not want to.
> 
> Ubuntu is a Linux distribution built on top of Debian Linux.  A 
> major
> difference between Linux distributions is what GUI they use as the
> default.  There are *many* available GUIs for Linux.
> 
> The main Ubuntu distribution defaulted to a GUI developed by Ubuntu
> parent company Canonical, Ltd, called Unity.  Unity was attempting 
> to
> be a "one size fits all" GUI that would run on desktop, laptop,
> netbook, tablet, and smartphone.  It was optimized for systems where
> the scarce resource was screen real estate, and you might access 
> stuff
> through a touch screen.  It was a good fit for a tablet, but fell 
> down
> on a large monitor. Ubuntu has recently halted development on Unity
> and anointed Gnome as the standard GUI.
> 
> Ubuntu is available in other flavors as Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and 
> Lubuntu.
> Kubuntu installs the KDE desktop as the default.  Lubuntu installs 
> the
> Lxde desktop.  Xubuntu installs the XFCE desktop.
> 
> You are not limited to the default.  You can install others, and
> select which you wish to use at the Login screen.  On the desktop, I
> have Unity, Gnome Classic, Enlightenment, Lxde and XFCE installed, 
> and
> spend most time in Gnome.  On the old netbook, I use Lubuntu, with
> Lxde, as it's a lightweight desktop intended for lower resource
> machines.
> 
> (Back when, I ran a version of Red Hat Linux with a desktop designed
> to look as much as possible like Win95 to ease transition for folks
> coming from Windows.)
> __
> Dennis
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
thanks

On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:23:17 -0700 Ralf Quint 
writes:
> On 4/24/2017 11:03 AM, Dale E Sterner wrote:
> > What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> > What difference does the L make.
> The windows manager used...
> 
> Ubuntu, as in the main distro, is using Gnome 3 as the default 
> window
> manager (after they finally abandoned that stupid Unity carp), 
> Lubuntu
> is instead using the more lightweight LXDE windows manager, and just 
> to
> preempt further questions, Xunbuntu is using Xfce, Kubuntu  KDE as 
> their
> windows manager...
> 
> Ralf
> 
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
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> 
> 
>
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 2:03 PM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> For the most part dos moves well between machines.
> Did have trouble with cutemouse & jemmex. On
> some machines they hang up.

So even DOS can be sensitive to hardware differences.  :-p

> What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> What difference does the L make.

The default GUI.

In Windows, the GUI is part of the OS, and you boot into the standard
Windows GUI.  (You *can* boot to a command line, by diddling the
registry to change Windows' idea of the default shell to CMD.EXE.  You
really don't *want* to.)

In Linux, the GUI is a layered product, running on top of the OS.  You
can boot a Linux system to a command line and not *use* a GUI, though
once again, you may not want to.

Ubuntu is a Linux distribution built on top of Debian Linux.  A major
difference between Linux distributions is what GUI they use as the
default.  There are *many* available GUIs for Linux.

The main Ubuntu distribution defaulted to a GUI developed by Ubuntu
parent company Canonical, Ltd, called Unity.  Unity was attempting to
be a "one size fits all" GUI that would run on desktop, laptop,
netbook, tablet, and smartphone.  It was optimized for systems where
the scarce resource was screen real estate, and you might access stuff
through a touch screen.  It was a good fit for a tablet, but fell down
on a large monitor. Ubuntu has recently halted development on Unity
and anointed Gnome as the standard GUI.

Ubuntu is available in other flavors as Kubuntu, Xubuntu, and Lubuntu.
Kubuntu installs the KDE desktop as the default.  Lubuntu installs the
Lxde desktop.  Xubuntu installs the XFCE desktop.

You are not limited to the default.  You can install others, and
select which you wish to use at the Login screen.  On the desktop, I
have Unity, Gnome Classic, Enlightenment, Lxde and XFCE installed, and
spend most time in Gnome.  On the old netbook, I use Lubuntu, with
Lxde, as it's a lightweight desktop intended for lower resource
machines.

(Back when, I ran a version of Red Hat Linux with a desktop designed
to look as much as possible like Win95 to ease transition for folks
coming from Windows.)
__
Dennis

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Ralf Quint
On 4/24/2017 11:03 AM, Dale E Sterner wrote:
> What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
> What difference does the L make.
The windows manager used...

Ubuntu, as in the main distro, is using Gnome 3 as the default window
manager (after they finally abandoned that stupid Unity carp), Lubuntu
is instead using the more lightweight LXDE windows manager, and just to
preempt further questions, Xunbuntu is using Xfce, Kubuntu  KDE as their
windows manager...

Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
For the most part dos moves well between machines.
Did have trouble with cutemouse & jemmex. On 
some machines they hang up.
What is the difference between Lubuntu & Ubuntu.
What difference does the L make.


cheers
DS



On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 12:29:26 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Dale E Sterner 
>  wrote:
> > I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one
> > machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.
> 
> You can't.  Windows will detect it's on a new machine, and complain.
> 
> But if you run Windows, that's not something you *want* to do, or 
> have
> *reason* to do.
> 
> You might be able to do something like that with Linux.  How well it
> would work would depend on the machines you were moving between.  
> Like
> Windows, desktop Linux pays attention to the hardware of the machine
> it's running on, so things like video and networking work as 
> desired.
> I run Ubuntu Linux here because it does the best job I've seen in a
> Linux distro of figuring out what it's being installed on, setting
> itself up, and Just Working with minimal input required from the 
> user.
> Just Working requires the appropriate drivers to be installed and
> loaded when the machine boots.  Different machines will have 
> different
> hardware and require different drivers.
> 
> > Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.
> 
> So what?  And you aren't *running* DOS on Windows.  You are running
> DOS *emulation* in a virtual machine (which is essentially what 
> things
> like vDOS are), which allows you to run DOS *applications* under
> Windows.  You don't *need* DOS itself in the mix.  (You could run 
> DOS
> apps "native" on Win2K/XP, but *that* was emulation too.  Real DOS 
> was
> nowhere to be found.)
> 
> (I run an assortment of DOS apps on an Android tablet.  Android has 
> a
> Linux kernel under the hood, and the tablet uses an ARM Cortex 7 
> quad
> core CPU.  I run DOS apps via an Android port of DOSBox, with is a 
> VM
> intended to let you play old DOS games on machines that aren't DOS
> PCs, but supports things that aren't games, too.  Look, Ma!  No DOS!
> :-) )
> 
> > cheers
> > DS
> __
> Dennis
> 
>
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-
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> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:47 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one
> machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.

You can't.  Windows will detect it's on a new machine, and complain.

But if you run Windows, that's not something you *want* to do, or have
*reason* to do.

You might be able to do something like that with Linux.  How well it
would work would depend on the machines you were moving between.  Like
Windows, desktop Linux pays attention to the hardware of the machine
it's running on, so things like video and networking work as desired.
I run Ubuntu Linux here because it does the best job I've seen in a
Linux distro of figuring out what it's being installed on, setting
itself up, and Just Working with minimal input required from the user.
Just Working requires the appropriate drivers to be installed and
loaded when the machine boots.  Different machines will have different
hardware and require different drivers.

> Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.

So what?  And you aren't *running* DOS on Windows.  You are running
DOS *emulation* in a virtual machine (which is essentially what things
like vDOS are), which allows you to run DOS *applications* under
Windows.  You don't *need* DOS itself in the mix.  (You could run DOS
apps "native" on Win2K/XP, but *that* was emulation too.  Real DOS was
nowhere to be found.)

(I run an assortment of DOS apps on an Android tablet.  Android has a
Linux kernel under the hood, and the tablet uses an ARM Cortex 7 quad
core CPU.  I run DOS apps via an Android port of DOSBox, with is a VM
intended to let you play old DOS games on machines that aren't DOS
PCs, but supports things that aren't games, too.  Look, Ma!  No DOS!
:-) )

> cheers
> DS
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
I run my pure DOS on a CF chip and move it from one 
machine to another on a cf chip. Try doing that with windows.
Running DOS on windows is like turning it into a parasite.

cheers
DS



On Mon, 24 Apr 2017 11:29:06 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Dale E Sterner 
>  wrote:
> > It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
> > Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
> > It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
> > to make it unusable. There was no documentation
> > with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
> > Its a pity they quit on it.
> 
> Corel is a commercial software producer, making its living *selling* 
> software.
> 
> They dropped out of the DOS market because there no longer *was* a 
> DOS
> market. Almost everyone had moved to Windows.
> 
> That's not "pity", it's *survival*.
> __
> Dennis
> 
>
-
-
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> 


**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:06 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
> Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
> It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
> to make it unusable. There was no documentation
> with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
> Its a pity they quit on it.

Corel is a commercial software producer, making its living *selling* software.

They dropped out of the DOS market because there no longer *was* a DOS
market. Almost everyone had moved to Windows.

That's not "pity", it's *survival*.
__
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread dmccunney
On Mon, Apr 24, 2017 at 11:14 AM, Dale E Sterner  wrote:
> I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
> have a 5.6.

As it happens, there was, as Felix Miata noted.   But versions *can*
be skipped by vendors.

> I only use the wordperfect off the disk - yet.
> Some lady on the web sells a dos wordperfect update
> to 6.2 and I also bought that - Corel autherized.

There are holdouts still running DOS software, but not under DOS.
There's a WordPerfect for DOS fan site with information on how to make
it work on Windows using vDOS.  There are similar folks doing the same
thing to continue running WordStar.  Noted SF author Robert Sawyer
maintains a WordStar page on his website with chapter and verse on
using vDOS to run WordStar under Windows.

The problem for both products was failure to keep up with the market.
Micropro took its eye off the WordStar ball and attempted to
diversify.  WordPerfect ate them for lunch.  Word Perfect waited too
long to develop a Windows version.  By the time they did, MS Word
owned the word processing market.

I know people who still use WordStar or WordPerfect, but also keep
Word around.  They are writers selling content, and what the editors
they sell to expect to see is a Word document.  They may compose in WP
or WS, but import to Word for submission draft.

> cheers
> DS
__
Dennis

> On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 dmccunney 
> writes:
>> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would
>> be 5.6 as opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.
>>
>> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
>> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
>> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
>>
>> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.
>>
>> What has your experience been?
>>
>> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or
>> BSD checksums.
>>
>> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source
>> license
>> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
>> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because
>> no
>> one was *trying* to.
>>
>> > Tom
>> __
>> Dennis
>> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519
>>
>>
> -
> -
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>> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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>
>
> **
> >From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
> http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
> ***
>
> 
> Eat This Herb To Reverse Hearing Loss
> Navajo Hearing System
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>
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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
I think there must have been a 5.5 otherwise you wouldn't
have a 5.6. I only use the wordperfect off the disk - yet.
Some lady on the web sells a dos wordperfect update 
to 6.2 and I also bought that - Corel autherized.

cheers
DS


On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:52:57 -0400 dmccunney 
writes:
> On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller  
> wrote:
> 
> > It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would 
> be 5.6 as opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.
> 
> Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
> Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
> whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)
> 
> > Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.
> 
> What has your experience been?
> 
> > In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or 
> BSD checksums.
> 
> Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source 
> license
> to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
> rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because 
> no
> one was *trying* to.
> 
> > Tom
> __
> Dennis
> https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519
> 
>
-
-
> Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most
> engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot
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**
>From Dale Sterner - MS organic chemistry
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/jo00975a052
***


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-24 Thread Dale E Sterner
It is pure dos abandoned when corel went to windows.
Sounded like it came out of the trash can type.
It is somewhat unfinished - a few nasty bugs but nothing
to make it unusable. There was no documentation 
with it. Just a corel factory made cd.
Its a pity they quit on it.




On Sun, 23 Apr 2017 17:03:26 +0200 Eric Auer  writes:
> 
> Hi Dale,
> 
> is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
> unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
> And of course, what is included? Which license?
> 
> Cheers, Eric
> 
> ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
> freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"
> 
> 
> 
>
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**
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***


3 Life-Shortening Foods You Should Avoid
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http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3141/58fe1430c3fd2143059ecst04duc

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-23 Thread dmccunney
On Sun, Apr 23, 2017 at 5:22 PM, Thomas Mueller  wrote:

> It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as 
> opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

Versions are frequently skipped when software is released.  Remember
Dale said this was *unreleased* software.  (I don't recall offhand
whether there was an actual Quattro 5.5 release.)

> Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

What has your experience been?

> In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD checksums.

Back then, Wifi didn't exist, and BSD required an AT source license
to run, since it derived from AT code.  Checksums were around, but
rather simpler and easily spoofed.  Nobody cared about that because no
one was *trying* to.

> Tom
__
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https://plus.google.com/u/0/105128793974319004519

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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-23 Thread Thomas Mueller
from Dale Sterner:

> On Ebay I purchased a cd with unreleased Corel dos
> software. There would have been a 5.6 version had it been
> released. Some woman got it from a boyfriend who
> worked for Corel and then sold it on Ebay for about $150.
> I was high bid.

Eric Auer:

Hi Dale,

> is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
> unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
> And of course, what is included? Which license?

> Cheers, Eric

> ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
> freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"

It seemed strange that a version of Quattro Pro following 5 would be 5.6 as 
opposed to 5.1 or 5.5.

Now I migrate as much as possible to Gnumeric.

In the days of Quattro Pro 5 for DOS, I never heard of wi-fi or BSD checksums.

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] Corel dos ebay thing

2017-04-23 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Dale,

is this actually a version of DOS? Or just an
unreleased intermediate version of wordperfect?
And of course, what is included? Which license?

Cheers, Eric

ps: you forgot to update the subject in your
freedos-user mail, it still says "wifi on dos"



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