Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-04-02 Thread Eric Auer

Hi,

 LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
 developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this
 way?
 very unlikely. Linux drivers are too different from DOS kernel or DOS
 TSR to be useful
 What about bringing the FUSE interface to DOS? Would it be possible to port
 libfuse and then write a system driver to support FUSE drivers?

FUSE is targeted towards Linux and supports things that DOS does
not need and cannot support. You can use the already existing
network redirector interface, int 2f, ah=11, al=function number
to implement drivers for any network or local non-FAT filesystem.

Enjoy :-)

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-31 Thread Eric Auer

Hi Michael,

indeed, MS LFN started with version 7 (Win9x)...

 What about FreeDOS kernel and LFN? Wouldn't it make sense
 also to add LFN to the FreeDOS kernel?

Yes but: The DOSLFN license does not allow it so you would
have to re-implement LFN from scratch and there is also a
risk to get nagging from MS because some LFN things are
still patented by Microsoft. For now, the DOSLFN way works
very well, although not perfect, for my few LFN needs.

 it also seems doslfn is not the answer and needs bugchecking
 by a third developer.

Quite possible - ask the doslfn maintainer whether he wants help.

 For sure, if LFN goes into the FreeDOS kernel it would make much sense
 to add also LFN support to the FAT driver. Is this already the case?

LFN lives at the level of directory entries, it does not care
whether they are FAT12, FAT16 or FAT32 directory entries :-)
But of course the kernel FAT driver does both, FATs and DIRs.

Eric



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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread Michael Reichenbach
Blair Campbell schrieb:
 Also according to
 http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.Compatibility
 it also seams doslfn is not the answer and needs bugchecking by a third
 developer.
 
 Even kernel support would have some of those issues, it seems only
 not very fast and
 risk to crosslink files or trash the filesystem (ask A.P.) (I have
 never experienced this)
 apply.  Overall I would recommend doslfn if you want to use long
 filenames.  Kernel support would be nice, but for the most part I
 think only speed would improve.  Compatibility issues with Windows and
 such would remain even if lfn support was in the kernel.

Yes, by putting it into the kernel the compatibility issues go not away
instantly.

LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this way?

To stay maximum compatible the LFN code could be disabled in config.sys
with LFN=0/1.

-mr



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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread Christian Masloch
 It is strongly recommended that you use MS-DOS version 7.0 (the version
 of MS-DOS that ships with Windows 95/98), since it is the only version
 that will allow you to use long filenames with your NTFS drives. Using
 earlier versions of MS-DOS restrict you to using file names in 8.3  
 format.

Only because NTFSDOS doesn't (didn't) translate NTFS original LFNs (that  
were stored without SFNs) to accessible SFNs. Refer to how DOSLFN does  
this for CDFS filenames that are too long, so it is indeed possible.  
(Might be more difficult with NTFSDOS Professional's R/W access though.)

 and

 Many people believe that MS-DOS doesn’t support long file names at all,
 but that isn’t the case. It is the MS-DOS FAT file system driver that
 lacks support, rather than MS-DOS itself.

If you prefer to refer to the kernel as the MS-DOS FAT file system  
driver only, that's true. (So that MS-DOS itself here means all other  
programs.) Else it isn't true, because the kernel doesn't contain any LFN  
support at all, and it is in fact made up of more than a FAT driver.  
Regarding this you have to remember the redirector interface, too.

 When used with a file system
 that supports long file names MS-DOS handles them fine,

The kernel doesn't care.

 as do MS-DOS
 applications that are written to take advantage of the support.

What they tell you is that NTFSDOS horribly hacks into Int21 to provide  
the LFN services on it's own. Because the redirector interface (which is  
else used by NTFSDOS) was never updated to provide LFN services. It must  
be a horrible hack because the redirector was designed so that the driver  
(here NTFSDOS) doesn't have to hack into Int21 and provide any direct  
Int21 services by itself.

 Author was Mark Russinovich / Bryce Cogswell so I believe the statement
 was correct.

They were supposedly Windows experts, weren't they?

 What about FreeDOS kernel and LFN? Wouldn't it make sense also to add
 LFN to the FreeDOS kernel?

If someone has enough time for this..

 Also according to
 http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.Compatibility
 it also seams doslfn is not the answer and needs bugchecking by a third
 developer.

Someone able to do this?

 For sure, if LFN goes into the FreeDOS kernel it would make much sense
 to add also LFN support to the FAT driver. Is this already the case?

For sure, if LFN services would be added to Int21 only but not the  
filesystem driver(s) it would be a complete waste of effort. DOS-C's FAT  
driver is probably LFN-aware (shows correct volume label even with LFNs  
etc.) but doesn't contain more support. [There's however this LFN helper  
API but I don't know what it's supposed to do and there's no  
documentation.]

Regards,
Christian

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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread Christian Masloch
 LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
 developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this  
 way?

FAT and FAT32 are already supported by DOSLFN, even some CD-ROM  
filesystems are. NTFS is not supported by any free DOS driver, so you  
can't extend DOSLFN to support it.

 To stay maximum compatible the LFN code could be disabled in config.sys
 with LFN=0/1.

This is indeed a good idea, which I've planned to put into RxDOS to  
disable it's LFN services. Could even free some of the code/tables if  
they're not going to be used anyway.

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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread Michael Reichenbach
Christian Masloch schrieb:
 LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
 developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this  
 way?
 
 FAT and FAT32 are already supported by DOSLFN, even some CD-ROM  
 filesystems are. NTFS is not supported by any free DOS driver, so you  
 can't extend DOSLFN to support it.

I did mean more, the knowledge to get a stable FAT32 LFN read/write
support could be extracted from the Linux FAT32 LFN knowledge as theirs
is stable since years. While bugfixing the compatibility issues with
DOSLFN it could be used as reference.

-mr

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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread Tom Ehlert
 LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
 developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this way?
very unlikely. Linux drivers are too different from DOS kernel or DOS
TSR to be useful

Tom


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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-30 Thread King InuYasha
On Mon, Mar 30, 2009 at 2:00 PM, Tom Ehlert t...@drivesnapshot.de wrote:

  LFN for FAT and for NTFS are working stable in Linux. Could a FreeDOS
  developer grab this free knowledge from Linux and improve DOSLFN this
 way?
 very unlikely. Linux drivers are too different from DOS kernel or DOS
 TSR to be useful

 Tom



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What about bringing the FUSE interface to DOS? Would it be possible to port
libfuse and then write a system driver to support FUSE drivers?
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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-29 Thread Michael Reichenbach
Christian Masloch schrieb:
 Which kind of compatibility does FreeDOS aim for? I mean compatible with
 which MS-DOS version? 6.22, 7.10, 8.00?

 As far as I can tell, 8.00 is the same as 7.10 plus some restrictions (I
 used to have a PC with Windows Me).

Yes, well 8.00 can load Win ME.
http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.MS-DOS

 6.22 doesn't include LBA, FAT32 and  
 LFN-aware command line, so FreeDOS mostly aims to be compatible to 7.10.

The site where I originally found the following statement is gone, but
there is a
mirror.
http://arcadecontrols.com/Mirrors/mirror/www.sysinternals.com/Utilities/NtfsDosProfessional.html

It is strongly recommended that you use MS-DOS version 7.0 (the version
of MS-DOS that ships with Windows 95/98), since it is the only version
that will allow you to use long filenames with your NTFS drives. Using
earlier versions of MS-DOS restrict you to using file names in 8.3 format.

and

Many people believe that MS-DOS doesn’t support long file names at all,
but that isn’t the case. It is the MS-DOS FAT file system driver that
lacks support, rather than MS-DOS itself. When used with a file system
that supports long file names MS-DOS handles them fine, as do MS-DOS
applications that are written to take advantage of the support.

Author was Mark Russinovich / Bryce Cogswell so I believe the statement
was correct.

What about FreeDOS kernel and LFN? Wouldn't it make sense also to add
LFN to the FreeDOS kernel?

Also according to
http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.Compatibility
it also seams doslfn is not the answer and needs bugchecking by a third
developer.

For sure, if LFN goes into the FreeDOS kernel it would make much sense
to add also LFN support to the FAT driver. Is this already the case?

-mr

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Re: [Freedos-user] LFN in FreeDOS kernel? - was: aimed compatibility?

2009-03-29 Thread Blair Campbell
 Also according to
 http://www.unet.univie.ac.at/~a0503736/php/drdoswiki/index.php?n=Main.Compatibility
 it also seams doslfn is not the answer and needs bugchecking by a third
 developer.

Even kernel support would have some of those issues, it seems only
not very fast and
risk to crosslink files or trash the filesystem (ask A.P.) (I have
never experienced this)
apply.  Overall I would recommend doslfn if you want to use long
filenames.  Kernel support would be nice, but for the most part I
think only speed would improve.  Compatibility issues with Windows and
such would remain even if lfn support was in the kernel.

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