Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
Hi! Henrique Peron wrote: What I meant was: The user will be using the characters available on VGA BIOS, because it is the default. I didn't mean that KEYB would be loading the characters on VGA BIOS. From your sentences, which are intermixed by mentions of KEYB, this is not clear. And subject of thread is an keyboard keys, not characters on screen. --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
What I meant was: The user will be using the characters available on VGA BIOS, because it is the default. I didn't mean that KEYB would be loading the characters on VGA BIOS. - Original Message - From: "Arkady V.Belousov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Wednesday, May 17, 2006 9:46 AM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) Hi! Henrique Peron wrote: If you haven't prepared and selected any cp (codepage), then you'll be using the character table implemented in the BIOS of your VGA adapter which, [...] if you run KEYB under these conditions, Video adapter BIOS doesn't implements INT16, this service is completely in main BIOS. --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
Hi! Henrique Peron wrote: If you haven't prepared and selected any cp (codepage), then you'll be using the character table implemented in the BIOS of your VGA adapter which, [...] if you run KEYB under these conditions, Video adapter BIOS doesn't implements INT16, this service is completely in main BIOS. --- Using Tomcat but need to do more? Need to support web services, security? Get stuff done quickly with pre-integrated technology to make your job easier Download IBM WebSphere Application Server v.1.0.1 based on Apache Geronimo http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=120709&bid=263057&dat=121642 ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
Hi John, Eric, I have just tested Edit v0.7d under a Win98 SE DOS Box. In fact, KEYB works differently. EDIT overrides KEYB. When I run "KEYB US" with cp850 or cp437, both keys work the same way. Therefore, if I try + or + , both combinations access the "Edit" menu. However, when I run "KEYB US" with cp858 - when, by the way, + echoes the Euro sign - this is what happens when I run EDIT v0.7d, Joe Cosentino's EDIT v0.82, Salvador Tropea's SetEdit 0.5.4i and Owen Rudge's OSPlus Text Editor 2.1.1, all available at the "Edit" section of the "Software" link at the FreeDOS homepage: + accesses the "Edit" menu, as expected. + neither accesses that menu nor echoes the Euro sign. I have also tried earlier versions (Joe's v0.81, v0.8 and Eric's v0.7c). Perhaps this is good news: It's not about FreeCOM after all, because I tested the programs above under a Win98 SE DOS Box and they behave the same as they do under FreeCOM. Unfortunately, only MS-DOS EDIT is working as expected. Henrique - Original Message - From: John Hupp To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:32 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) Henrique, Thanks for giving this a good going over and a thorough explanation. But I think the critical difference between your testing and mine is that you are in a Win98 DOS box using MS EDIT and I am on a pure FreeDOS machine using FD EDIT. The reference to a multimedia keyboard is from Lester Vedrox's post, to which I was responding. I'm not using such a keyboard here, nor would I expect that to make any difference. --John Hupp - Original Message - From: Henrique Peron To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: fd-devel Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) Hi John, I have just tested the US keyboard (under MS-DOS EDIT) and the works just like . If you haven't prepared and selected any cp (codepage), then you'll be using the character table implemented in the BIOS of your VGA adapter which, on 99.999% of the cases, is identical (in encoding) to FreeDOS (and MS-DOS, IBM-DOS and probably any other DOS) cp437 and that's why if you run KEYB under these conditions, it will work as if you had prepared and selected that codepage. In that case, "KEYB US" should work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. If you have actually prepared and selected cp437 (or cp850), "KEYB US" should still work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. The key only works differently (i.e. like the key on international keyboards) if there's a character associated to a given combination.If you're using cp858 (which is FreeDOS default), the key works as only to + <5> and + , which display the Euro sign. For all the other combinations, remains the same as . Therefore, as far as I can see it, KEYB not only sticks to the commitment of being 100% MS-DOS compatible as well as it enhances MS-DOS KEYB functionality, since it allows you to encode your own layouts and even extra layers, such as, for example, combining keys with + . All my KEY encodings and testings are under a Win98 DOS Box. Perhaps KEYB behaves slightly different when working under FreeCOM (and/or under FreeDOS EDIT). (Definition of "KEY encodings": All the keyboard layouts are encoded into *.KEY files.) By the way, the issue of being a multimedia keyboard won't probably have anything to do with that. All that happens is, your multimedia keyboard has extra scancodes for its multimedia keys - which aren't dealt with on standard KEY files so they'll remain "dead" unless you run some program which handles them. Henrique - Original Message - From: John Hupp To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Lester Vedrox Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) - Original Message - From: Lester Vedrox To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Customizing Startup Files Running US-Eng keyboard straight from BIOS (which is US anyways) sounds like a good idea but I still can't get
Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
Henrique, Thanks for giving this a good going over and a thorough explanation. But I think the critical difference between your testing and mine is that you are in a Win98 DOS box using MS EDIT and I am on a pure FreeDOS machine using FD EDIT. The reference to a multimedia keyboard is from Lester Vedrox's post, to which I was responding. I'm not using such a keyboard here, nor would I expect that to make any difference. --John Hupp - Original Message - From: Henrique Peron To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: fd-devel Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:13 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) Hi John, I have just tested the US keyboard (under MS-DOS EDIT) and the works just like . If you haven't prepared and selected any cp (codepage), then you'll be using the character table implemented in the BIOS of your VGA adapter which, on 99.999% of the cases, is identical (in encoding) to FreeDOS (and MS-DOS, IBM-DOS and probably any other DOS) cp437 and that's why if you run KEYB under these conditions, it will work as if you had prepared and selected that codepage. In that case, "KEYB US" should work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. If you have actually prepared and selected cp437 (or cp850), "KEYB US" should still work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. The key only works differently (i.e. like the key on international keyboards) if there's a character associated to a given combination.If you're using cp858 (which is FreeDOS default), the key works as only to + <5> and + , which display the Euro sign. For all the other combinations, remains the same as . Therefore, as far as I can see it, KEYB not only sticks to the commitment of being 100% MS-DOS compatible as well as it enhances MS-DOS KEYB functionality, since it allows you to encode your own layouts and even extra layers, such as, for example, combining keys with + . All my KEY encodings and testings are under a Win98 DOS Box. Perhaps KEYB behaves slightly different when working under FreeCOM (and/or under FreeDOS EDIT). (Definition of "KEY encodings": All the keyboard layouts are encoded into *.KEY files.) By the way, the issue of being a multimedia keyboard won't probably have anything to do with that. All that happens is, your multimedia keyboard has extra scancodes for its multimedia keys - which aren't dealt with on standard KEY files so they'll remain "dead" unless you run some program which handles them. Henrique - Original Message - From: John Hupp To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Lester Vedrox Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) - Original Message - From: Lester Vedrox To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Customizing Startup Files Running US-Eng keyboard straight from BIOS (which is US anyways) sounds like a good idea but I still can't get the right ALT key working. The following approach didn't solve the problem either (kb2pre4.zip):LH KEYB US,,C:\FDOS\BIN\KEYBOARD.SYSMaybe it's because it's multimedia keyboard. - - Lester,Regarding Right-ALT, I brought up the same issue with FD Service Release 1. The understanding I finally arrived at was that, though Right-ALT does not work in FreeDOS the same way it does in MS-DOS in a default US installation, this behavior is nonetheless by design. It stems from special uses of Right-ALT in international keyboards, but special status for the key has been carried over into the design of the default behavior and apparently even into the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. I would still argue that the project's goal for a "100% MS-DOS compatible" operating system means that, for US users, Right-ALT should work the same as Left-ALT, but all-in-all, it is for me a second-level issue. I follow with one of Eric Auer's replies to me from last year. --John Hupp -- From: "Eric Auer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: re: Re: Re: DOS news: loadfix, editDate: Friday, August 05, 2005 4:33 PM > Yes, Right-ALT *always* behaves on my system as I describe it.> functionality I would expect under MS-DOS 6.22 with a US keyboard layout: > e.g. Right-ALT+F would open the File menu
Re: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files)
Hi John, I have just tested the US keyboard (under MS-DOS EDIT) and the works just like . If you haven't prepared and selected any cp (codepage), then you'll be using the character table implemented in the BIOS of your VGA adapter which, on 99.999% of the cases, is identical (in encoding) to FreeDOS (and MS-DOS, IBM-DOS and probably any other DOS) cp437 and that's why if you run KEYB under these conditions, it will work as if you had prepared and selected that codepage. In that case, "KEYB US" should work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. If you have actually prepared and selected cp437 (or cp850), "KEYB US" should still work just like the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. The key only works differently (i.e. like the key on international keyboards) if there's a character associated to a given combination.If you're using cp858 (which is FreeDOS default), the key works as only to + <5> and + , which display the Euro sign. For all the other combinations, remains the same as . Therefore, as far as I can see it, KEYB not only sticks to the commitment of being 100% MS-DOS compatible as well as it enhances MS-DOS KEYB functionality, since it allows you to encode your own layouts and even extra layers, such as, for example, combining keys with + . All my KEY encodings and testings are under a Win98 DOS Box. Perhaps KEYB behaves slightly different when working under FreeCOM (and/or under FreeDOS EDIT). (Definition of "KEY encodings": All the keyboard layouts are encoded into *.KEY files.) By the way, the issue of being a multimedia keyboard won't probably have anything to do with that. All that happens is, your multimedia keyboard has extra scancodes for its multimedia keys - which aren't dealt with on standard KEY files so they'll remain "dead" unless you run some program which handles them. Henrique - Original Message - From: John Hupp To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Cc: Lester Vedrox Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:23 AM Subject: [Freedos-user] Right-ALT key (topic was Customizing Startup Files) - Original Message - From: Lester Vedrox To: freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 4:17 PM Subject: Re: [Freedos-user] Customizing Startup Files Running US-Eng keyboard straight from BIOS (which is US anyways) sounds like a good idea but I still can't get the right ALT key working. The following approach didn't solve the problem either (kb2pre4.zip):LH KEYB US,,C:\FDOS\BIN\KEYBOARD.SYSMaybe it's because it's multimedia keyboard. - - Lester,Regarding Right-ALT, I brought up the same issue with FD Service Release 1. The understanding I finally arrived at was that, though Right-ALT does not work in FreeDOS the same way it does in MS-DOS in a default US installation, this behavior is nonetheless by design. It stems from special uses of Right-ALT in international keyboards, but special status for the key has been carried over into the design of the default behavior and apparently even into the US implementation of the keyboard BIOS extension. I would still argue that the project's goal for a "100% MS-DOS compatible" operating system means that, for US users, Right-ALT should work the same as Left-ALT, but all-in-all, it is for me a second-level issue. I follow with one of Eric Auer's replies to me from last year. --John Hupp -- From: "Eric Auer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>Subject: re: Re: Re: DOS news: loadfix, editDate: Friday, August 05, 2005 4:33 PM > Yes, Right-ALT *always* behaves on my system as I describe it.> functionality I would expect under MS-DOS 6.22 with a US keyboard layout: > e.g. Right-ALT+F would open the File menu just at Left-ALT+F does... This is by design - EDIT must not tamper with right alt, as e.g. Germankeyboard drivers need right alt to be available to type country specifickeys. I think there is no interface which would tell EDIT that "I am anUS keyboard driver so I do not need right alt" (to allow EDIT to useright alt for function keys like alt-f). CCing Aitor about that. Note that I will be away from mail in the next weeks... Aitor writes the KEYB driver, so maybe he knows more about that Alt thing,but I would generally recommend to use Alt for Alt, and not use AltGr(which is nothing more than right-Alt for US keyboards but which has aspecial meaning for international keyboards). Basically if EDIT 0.82 treats right-alt-F like left-alt-F then that wouldbe a bug which makes life hard for e.g. German users. Lu
