Re: [Freedos-user] freedos installation disk space requirements - was: Some driver updates
> On Nov 8, 2017, at 2:40 PM, Eric Auer wrote: > > > Hi Jerome, > >> Maybe the installer should just assume FULL install + sources > > Not really. Almost nobody installs all sources at the same time > and I would not even want the option in the installer: Instead, > I prefer to have the option to install + PACKAGES with sources. > Then I can unzip only those sources that I need, instead of all > of them at the same time. > > Also, I would hope that people understand that FULL will be 100s > of MB while BASE gives you everything you loved in MS DOS times > plus a lot more while still needing only a few dozen MB space :-) > > In other words, I hope people will see that both FULL and BASE > are nice choices. You could disable the FULL install and show a > message why, if there is enough space for BASE but not for FULL. > > You could do for example the following: > > Calculate sizes of BASE and FULL and if you really think it will > help the sizes of either with sources. In all cases, assume 32 kB > cluster size to be on the safe side. In other words, round UP to > multiples of 32 kB. Then add 5 MB safety margin. And if desired, > 2x the size of the old OS directory if "backup old OS" is active. > > If there is less space than calculated, warn the user that FreeDOS > will probably not fit, but allow to continue nevertheless if the > user decides to continue. If there is enough space, tell the user > that the install will take circa PREDICTEDVALUE of FREESPACE and > leave REMAININGVALUE or more free. Then the user can be happy to > hear about the "or more" part :-) > > Cheers, Eric Or, just put a note on the download page saying it requires X mb free space for a full install and Y for only Base. Then let the user worry about the problem. I don’t recall the poll numbers for use case. But, I have the impression that the majority of users are not installing onto an existing system with minimal free space. Mostly, they are installing into a virtual machine. Some are setting up legacy hardware on clean machines. I just don’t see it as a problem should take priority over other issues. Maybe I’m wrong. But, that’s my 2 cents worth. :) -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] freedos installation disk space requirements - was: Some driver updates
Hi Jerome, > Maybe the installer should just assume FULL install + sources Not really. Almost nobody installs all sources at the same time and I would not even want the option in the installer: Instead, I prefer to have the option to install + PACKAGES with sources. Then I can unzip only those sources that I need, instead of all of them at the same time. Also, I would hope that people understand that FULL will be 100s of MB while BASE gives you everything you loved in MS DOS times plus a lot more while still needing only a few dozen MB space :-) In other words, I hope people will see that both FULL and BASE are nice choices. You could disable the FULL install and show a message why, if there is enough space for BASE but not for FULL. You could do for example the following: Calculate sizes of BASE and FULL and if you really think it will help the sizes of either with sources. In all cases, assume 32 kB cluster size to be on the safe side. In other words, round UP to multiples of 32 kB. Then add 5 MB safety margin. And if desired, 2x the size of the old OS directory if "backup old OS" is active. If there is less space than calculated, warn the user that FreeDOS will probably not fit, but allow to continue nevertheless if the user decides to continue. If there is enough space, tell the user that the install will take circa PREDICTEDVALUE of FREESPACE and leave REMAININGVALUE or more free. Then the user can be happy to hear about the "or more" part :-) Cheers, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] freedos installation disk space requirements - was: Some driver updates
I see a lot of assume this, assume that, plus a little of roughly this... Maybe the installer should just assume FULL install + sources + (2x) old OS backup + 1-5MB safety margin at startup. If there is not that much space, tell user the error and stop. Like several other dangerous things, the user could force an install in advanced mode. -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] freedos installation disk space requirements - was: Some driver updates
Hi Jerome, >> Start with Base. > Can’t. If user is doing a custom install Yes you can ;-) Base install will be a common choice, so it is good if you can at least predict how much disk space is required for THAT. I think this also is exactly why Robert wrote START with base: You can always try to add perfect calculations for every situation imaginable later, but it would already help a lot to have any space predictions at all, at least for common cases! >> Shouldn't take much. > Yes. But, everything counts. Simply assume 1 MB for autoexec & install lists? >>> Size needed for MBR backup, >>> Size needed for config file backup, >> Shouldn't take much. > Correct, but if you're going to calculate stuff, should be accurate. Look. At the moment, you do not give the user any idea at all regarding how much space is required! So what is better? 1. Tell the user that base takes 40 MB plus 5 MB worst case for temp files, so 45 MB should be okay, which given that our user is trying to install on her 60 MB partition, there install will be smooth? or 2. Tell the user to take any disk of random size and brace for the random outcome of whether or not installing FreeDOS base on it will succeed? :-p I have an *extreme* preference for the 1st case. Of course "40+5 MB" is just an example, but based on actual packages, you can make good estimates. > A 52 byte file may use 512 bytes on disk. > So, just adding sizes is no good. Exactly what I said: Please assume that all file sizes are rounded up to the next multiple of 32 kilobytes (largest common cluster size on FAT). Then your error will always be that you over-, but never under-estimated required space. Which means that if you say the install WILL fit, it WILL fit. And when you predict it will NOT fit, it MAY fit, but the user has to try at own risk. Much better than no help at all, I would say :-) Regards, Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
Re: [Freedos-user] freedos installation disk space requirements - was: Some driver updates
Hi Robert :-) >> Base size, >> Base + sources size, >> Full size, >> Full + sources size, >> All package sizes (custom advanced mode) >> All packages + sources sizes, > Start with Base. Actually I would suggest to never install complete categories WITH SOURCE. Just install sources of individual packages when needed and simply keep the rest stored in their zip packages. To find out BASE size, I suggest to compute required size based on the assumption that each cluster is 32 kB large. You can either precompute that for a fixed distro, or let the installer compute things based on actual zip content. Of course the latter means more reads from the installer medium - slow, unless you have a nice cache active. >> Temp storage requirements to expand largest installing package, > Difficult. Just add a fixed margin for such stuff? >> Temp storage for custom install lists, >> Temp storage for custom autoexec and config file creation, > Shouldn't take much. I agree. Use fixed margin. >> Size needed for copy style backup, >> Size needed for advanced zip backup, > Means what? Probably means size of the current DOS directory which can be backed up during install by either xcopy or zip. Should be answered by something like "du \freedos" ;-) >> Size needed for MBR backup, >> Size needed for config file backup, > Shouldn't take much. I agree. As above. >> Size of packages to be removed and upgraded, > It's just "-", not "+" then. ;-) Just ignore all remove / upgrade steps for now: This gives you a most pessimistic estimate. When there is still enough disk space, be happy. When not, show a warning and allow the user to proceed at own risk :-) This is still a lot better than letting users create FAT12 drives in the blind assumption that DOS is tiny and then be surprised by failed attempts to install "all packages" into them ;-) > Of course, uncompressed ZIP length should be calculated during ISO > build at the latest, but not at runtime of the installer. See above - both is possible. Do not forget to stay on the safe side by assuming large clusters on the drive where DOS will be installed. Or pre-compute for various cluster sizes and then pick the value which matches the actual target drive. > But what else is a computer for if not crunching numbers? Exactly :-) Eric -- Check out the vibrant tech community on one of the world's most engaging tech sites, Slashdot.org! http://sdm.link/slashdot ___ Freedos-user mailing list Freedos-user@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/freedos-user
