Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Joao Silva]

Think i may still have Paintbrush for DOS from my 286 if anyone is
interested.
4dos from some old cds from magazines.

On Mon, Apr 13, 2020 at 6:46 PM tom ehlert  wrote:

>
>
> >> So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
> >> French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
> >> mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)
>
> a) this sounds like a job for something like
>
>grep ... | sed  ... | awk  ...| translate.google.com | sed ...
>
>unfortunately I forgot the missing options ;)
>
>
> b) there are many programs with english comments in the wild without
>any active developer. why do you think having english comments for some
>obscure GrafX2 would change this? does it even need development, or
>isn't it already great (or at least good enough)?
>
> Tom
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[tom ehlert]

Hallo Herr Ralf Quint,

am Montag, 13. April 2020 um 21:22 schrieben Sie:

> On 4/13/2020 10:28 AM, tom ehlert wrote:
>>
 So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
 French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
 mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)
>> a) this sounds like a job for something like
>>
>> grep ... | sed  ... | awk  ...| translate.google.com | sed ...
>>
>> unfortunately I forgot the missing options ;)
>>
>>
>> b) there are many programs with english comments in the wild without
>> any active developer. why do you think having english comments for some
>> obscure GrafX2 would change this? does it even need development, or
>> isn't it already great (or at least good enough)?
>>

> Just downloaded the sources and checked them, just out of curiosity.

> The "problem" is not that much the comments, but that the C sources, at
> least the large files that I checked (didn't look at any of the .h 
> files) have pretty much all functions and variables in French. And that
> is not something you can easily "fix" with an automated process.

> The sources are 21/22 years old, but for a real DOS program, this is 
> kind of to be expected. And not necessarily a bad thing.

> I am not much into graphics work, and certainly not on DOS these days,
> so what would be the problem with GrafX2? If it works and you can 
> recompile it, it shouldn't matter much in what language it is written.
> At least for me, with at least some knowledge in French, the source 
> seems to be pretty well written and commented, so if someone would need
> to go bug hunting, this should still be feasible...

at least for me, a working binary is just fine.

after 21/22 years, all bugs should have appeared, should there be any.

as a good example, consider FreeCOM.
english sources.
well known bugs since 2006.
no one cared until Bart fixed the binary in 2019.
now no one cares (as in testing an reporting) if the bugs have indeed been 
fixed.

unless GrafX2 is some amazing program, porting comments and function
names to english is probably waste of lifetime. YMMV. its your lifetime.

Tom









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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Ralf Quint]

On 4/13/2020 10:28 AM, tom ehlert wrote:



So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)

a) this sounds like a job for something like

grep ... | sed  ... | awk  ...| translate.google.com | sed ...

unfortunately I forgot the missing options ;)


b) there are many programs with english comments in the wild without
any active developer. why do you think having english comments for some
obscure GrafX2 would change this? does it even need development, or
isn't it already great (or at least good enough)?



Just downloaded the sources and checked them, just out of curiosity.

The "problem" is not that much the comments, but that the C sources, at 
least the large files that I checked (didn't look at any of the .h 
files) have pretty much all functions and variables in French. And that 
is not something you can easily "fix" with an automated process.


The sources are 21/22 years old, but for a real DOS program, this is 
kind of to be expected. And not necessarily a bad thing.


I am not much into graphics work, and certainly not on DOS these days, 
so what would be the problem with GrafX2? If it works and you can 
recompile it, it shouldn't matter much in what language it is written. 
At least for me, with at least some knowledge in French, the source 
seems to be pretty well written and commented, so if someone would need 
to go bug hunting, this should still be feasible...


Ralf


--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus



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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[tom ehlert]

>> So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
>> French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
>> mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)

a) this sounds like a job for something like

   grep ... | sed  ... | awk  ...| translate.google.com | sed ...

   unfortunately I forgot the missing options ;)


b) there are many programs with english comments in the wild without
   any active developer. why do you think having english comments for some
   obscure GrafX2 would change this? does it even need development, or
   isn't it already great (or at least good enough)?

Tom



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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

On Sat, Apr 11, 2020 at 2:53 PM Robert Riebisch  wrote:
>
> > So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
> > French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
> > mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)
>
> Nobody?

It's only been a week, give it time. Then again, most people are often
too busy for this kind of thing (sadly). Alas.  :-(

Even Mateusz gave up on the "FreeDOS localisation" project in 2016 due
to disinterest:

* http://freedoslocal.sourceforge.net/

BTW, I did a rough E-o translation of Dos2unix years ago, but he found
a better translator. Maybe you could ask someone there.

* https://translationproject.org/html/welcome.html


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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Robert Riebisch]

> So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
> French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
> mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)

Nobody?

Cheers,
Robert
-- 
  +++ BTTR Software +++
 Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/


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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Robert Riebisch]

Hi Eric,

>> 5) VGAPaint 386 
>> by Avery Lee is GNU GPL v2, but unstable.
> 
> Robert explained that this means it fails to restore
> the interrupt vector table on certain exit methods,
> which feels familiar for certain Borland / Turbo run
> time libraries?

That's the only bug, I noticed myself, but it's a long ago, that I used
VGAPaint.
So, that doesn't mean, there are not (many?) more bugs.

Cheers,
Robert
-- 
  +++ BTTR Software +++
 Home page: https://www.bttr-software.de/
DOS ain't dead: https://www.bttr-software.de/forum/


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Re: [Freedos-user] paint programs for DOS - was 4DOS...

[Eric Auer]

Hi all :-)

> 3) GrafX2 
> by Guillaume Dorme and Karl Maritaud is GNU GPL v2, but docs and
> Watcom C and TP7 source code names and comments are in French.

That caught my interest so I made some stats:

- all the TXT already exists in French *and* English,
  some of it even in English without French version

- the ASM are 15800 lines, with 1670 real comments
  (not just commenting stuff out or "db 65 ; 'A'")

- the PAS are 2600 lines with only 30 real comments
  (plus 50 saying "Pinceau 42" with various numbers)

- the C are 40800 lines with 60 /* block comments */
  (usually very short) and 3310 real 1 line comments
  (which already include some fraction of English)

So the task would be to translate 5000 snippets of
French, are there any GrafX2 fans who feel in the
mood to help FreeDOS as source "interpreters"? :-)

Note that the PAS code is just for tools / helpers,
grafx2 itself is written in C with some Assembly.
There also is some of that embedded in other code.

Of course the variable and function names etc. are
often in French, too, but because the code already
is commented, translating the comments themselves
should be enough for making the code understood.

> 4) OGE 
> by Daniel Skarda is GNU GPL v2, but docs and TP source code names
> and comments are in Czech.

Maybe somebody wants to measure the comment sizes?

> 5) VGAPaint 386 
> by Avery Lee is GNU GPL v2, but unstable.

Robert explained that this means it fails to restore
the interrupt vector table on certain exit methods,
which feels familiar for certain Borland / Turbo run
time libraries?

> 7) AntiPaint for DOS
> 
> is unusable (to me).

According to Robert, it feels more like a graphics
library example than a real painting program?

Cheers, Eric



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