Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Kevin McCormick]

> Honestly, I don't understand the need for Win98SE (MS-DOS 7.1) here.
I did not mean to imply that Win98SE was definitely required, just that
I used it in the attempt that ultimately was successful.  I likely had
this problem solved a few times without realizing it, since I made
numerous bootable freedos usb sticks.  They did not work in my bios
upgrade attempts, but they may very well have worked if I had correctly
guessed the right steps.   I have not seen a DOS prompt in several years
and I was worried about the boot menu because I expected the bios update
to be unable to handle dealing with a menu.  I was looking for a boot
straight into the C: prompt, then I realized the A: prompt was more
likely, and then realized the C: prompt would be the usb file system
root.  Then I decided just to try running the .exe file before buying a
new mobo.  In the documents you found there are two files discussed, one
of which is a bios.bin, which probably would have worked.  That was not
the case with the MSI download for my situation -- everything was
contained in the .exe file.

My personal opinion is that after repeatedly warning that a bios upgrade
can ruin your computer, there should be some effort to have directions
that match the process, but that is just me.  The whole thing was a
learning experience, which I may never use again.

It may be of interest to the FreeDOS community that the "M-Flash"
process required a UEFI boot setup on the DOS usb stick, which seems to
be a bit incongruous  (not if UEFI is really about selling more
product).  However, it was happy to use my non-uefi stick when it found
a bios.bin file, which was the old bios I backed up onto the usb stick. 
Directly running the .exe file did the upgrade, but you would not have
known that from the bios screen or any directions I found.

Regards

 


On 04/14/2018 03:23 PM, Rugxulo wrote:
> Hi again,
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Kevin McCormick  wrote:
>> Upgrade bios for MSI 7677 H61i-e35 (B3) mini-itx motherboard
>>
>> Here are the steps as best I can recall:
>>  ...
>>
>> In conclusion, a working DOS usb boot stick seems to be the key, and it was
>> recommended to use the Windows 98 SE version in one MSI guide.  However, for
>> MSI owners, the lack of help and conflicting/confusing messages from MSI
>> imply that one should proceed with great caution.
> It seems MSI (Micro-Star International) is a company from Taiwan
> (China). It's possible that something was lost in translation.
> However, I do think support from the company itself is very important
> here, and you should do whatever they tell you to do.
>
> Honestly, I don't understand the need for Win98SE (MS-DOS 7.1) here.
> Without downloading it, the link you provided seems to imply a very
> minimal image (1 MB), which is "probably" similar to what Windows 7
> (and RUFUS!) uses (DISKCOPY.DLL) to make a "system floppy", aka EBD
> (emergency boot disk) or whatever.
>
> I did find two .PDFs via quick search:
>
> "BIOS Update Instruction By DOS Tool" (Revision 2.3, 2016/08/02)
> * 
> https://www.msi.com/files/pdf/How_to_make_a_bootable_flash_disk_and_to_flash_BIOS_en.pdf
> (uses UNetBootIn atop Windows [Vista? 7?] to install FreeDOS
> [fdboot.img, 7/24/2011])
> (FreeDOS "safe mode", aka "don't load any drivers", FreeDOS 1.0 final
> from 2006-July-30)
>
> * 
> https://www.msi.com/html/pdf/How_to_flash_MSI_Notebook_BIOS_under_DOS_mode.pdf
> (also uses UNetBootIn atop Windows)
> (FreeDOS "safe mode", aka "don't load any drivers", FreeDOS 1.0 final
> from 2006-July-30)
>
> You basically said you tried other things that didn't work, so maybe
> this is redundant for you. Still, it's hard to understand all of the
> details from afar.

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Rugxulo]

Hi yet again,

This kind of thing is a bit overwhelming to think about. I just don't
have enough experience to understand or remember every detail.

But I did vaguely remember two old freedos-user messages by Christian
Imhorst that may help even further:


On Sat, Apr 14, 2018 at 3:23 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Kevin McCormick  wrote:
>>
>> Upgrade bios for MSI 7677 H61i-e35 (B3) mini-itx motherboard
>>
>> Here are the steps as best I can recall:

Re: [Freedos-user] Is anyone installed FreeDOS from USB CD drive or
other USB device?
* https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/32771882/
(fdisk + mkfs.vfat directly on /dev/sdX, then booting via grub4dos +
fd11src.iso by "qemu -m 512 /dev/sdX")

* https://sourceforge.net/p/freedos/mailman/message/32803806/
(or instead use SysLinux, providing link to his own 256 MB image,
needs dd or win32diskimager)
(oops, seems missing, but hopefully still generally useful tips)

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Fri, Apr 13, 2018 at 7:44 PM, Kevin McCormick  wrote:
>
> Upgrade bios for MSI 7677 H61i-e35 (B3) mini-itx motherboard
>
> Here are the steps as best I can recall:
>  ...
>
> In conclusion, a working DOS usb boot stick seems to be the key, and it was
> recommended to use the Windows 98 SE version in one MSI guide.  However, for
> MSI owners, the lack of help and conflicting/confusing messages from MSI
> imply that one should proceed with great caution.

It seems MSI (Micro-Star International) is a company from Taiwan
(China). It's possible that something was lost in translation.
However, I do think support from the company itself is very important
here, and you should do whatever they tell you to do.

Honestly, I don't understand the need for Win98SE (MS-DOS 7.1) here.
Without downloading it, the link you provided seems to imply a very
minimal image (1 MB), which is "probably" similar to what Windows 7
(and RUFUS!) uses (DISKCOPY.DLL) to make a "system floppy", aka EBD
(emergency boot disk) or whatever.

I did find two .PDFs via quick search:

"BIOS Update Instruction By DOS Tool" (Revision 2.3, 2016/08/02)
* 
https://www.msi.com/files/pdf/How_to_make_a_bootable_flash_disk_and_to_flash_BIOS_en.pdf
(uses UNetBootIn atop Windows [Vista? 7?] to install FreeDOS
[fdboot.img, 7/24/2011])
(FreeDOS "safe mode", aka "don't load any drivers", FreeDOS 1.0 final
from 2006-July-30)

* https://www.msi.com/html/pdf/How_to_flash_MSI_Notebook_BIOS_under_DOS_mode.pdf
(also uses UNetBootIn atop Windows)
(FreeDOS "safe mode", aka "don't load any drivers", FreeDOS 1.0 final
from 2006-July-30)

You basically said you tried other things that didn't work, so maybe
this is redundant for you. Still, it's hard to understand all of the
details from afar.

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Kevin McCormick]

Upgrade bios for MSI 7677 H61i-e35 (B3) mini-itx motherboard

Here are the steps as best I can recall:
 
First download the Windows98SE image (Win98SE_bootdisk.iso) from
http://www.allbootdisks.com/download/98.html
Second download the bios update .exe (in my case
msi_bios_upgrade_7677v63.zip) and unzip it  
 # unzip msi_bios_upgrade_7677v63.zip

Then you must be root to do all this.
1) Use gparted to format usb stick -- msdos partition table + partition
(cylinder alignment) with fat32 file system + set partition boot and lba
flag
2) install syslinux  $ syslinux -s -i /dev/sdb1 (assuming usb partition
is /dev/sdb1 -- make sure)
3) mount usb  $ mount /dev/sdb1 /mnt/usb
4) copy files:
    $ cp /usr/share/syslinux/memdisk /mnt/usb   
    $ cp /[path]/Win98SE_bootdisk.iso /mnt/usb
    $ cp /[path]/E7677v63.exe /mnt/usb

5) create the syslinux.cfg file (plain text file) and save to
/mnt/usb/syslinux.cfg
 DEFAULT floppy_iso
 LABEL floppy_iso
    LINUX memdisk
    INITRD Win98SE_bootdisk.iso
    APPEND iso
  -- unmount the usb stick $ umount /mnt/usb

6) (possibly unnecessary) set bios boot order to USB HDD as first entry
    In AMI setup M-Flash screen, save the current bios to the usb (as a
precaution)
   (interestingly, M-Flash offered to upgrade the bios using the bios I
had just saved)
7) boot the usb stick, choose without cdrom support from usb boot menu
 you will see the DOS A:/ prompt, enter C:
    C:/E7677v63  (this will run the bios upgrade program, E7677v63.EXE,
but use the one for your mobo)

Do not remove the USB stick or power off the computer.  There will be
several restarts and the process goes on.
After it was all done, there was a message indicating success.  Then I
dismantled computer and changed the cpu.
Next boot gave a notice "processor changed, enter setup" or similar, so
I entered "restore defaults"

In conclusion, a working DOS usb boot stick seems to be the key, and it
was recommended to use the Windows 98 SE version in one MSI guide. 
However, for MSI owners, the lack of help and conflicting/confusing
messages from MSI imply that one should proceed with great caution.

Now I am having trouble booting my Slackware OS, probably due to
changing from IDE to AHCI, but maybe due to the bios upgrade or putting
sata plugs in the wrong order.  However, the upgraded processor is
working and I think getting the OS to boot will be less trouble than
figuring out the bios upgrade.

Thanks for everyone's comments. 

On 04/07/2018 08:08 AM, Eric Auer wrote:
> Hi Kevin,
>
> the point was that if you have a modern BIOS, it will
> just look for a data file on a FAT-formatted USB stick
> and then update *itself* - You do NOT have to boot any
> DOS from the stick to do that. Of course you can exit
> the setup of FreeDOS 1.0 or 1.2 or skip entering it.
>
> Trying to follow the "flashing BIOS" instructions for
> cases when you had to use old DOS executables as flash
> tool might be a waste of effort with more modern BIOS.
>
> Please check whether your BIOS really wants to run a
> DOS exe file for anything. More likely, it does not.
> If your BIOS just needs a data file, then you do NOT
> have to install any DOS on the stick at all. Simply
> make sure that the stick is FAT formatted and not
> NTFS or ExFAT formatted, then copy your BIOS data
> to the stick and let the BIOS do the rest at boot.
>
> Cheers, Eric
>
> PS: You could use GPARTED to check and modify which
> filesystem your stick uses, with user-friendly GUI.
> Just make sure to write the stick, not OTHER disks.
>
> PPS: IF you find out that you really want to run DOS
> executables, you can install a boot floppy image on
> a stick instead of using entire DOS distro images.
>
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[jamie marchant]

I agree, that's the way it should work. Make sure it's formatted in Fat. 
Also make sure the file is in the correct folder and has the correct name.

On 04/07/2018 09:08 AM, Eric Auer wrote:

Hi Kevin,

the point was that if you have a modern BIOS, it will
just look for a data file on a FAT-formatted USB stick
and then update *itself* - You do NOT have to boot any
DOS from the stick to do that. Of course you can exit
the setup of FreeDOS 1.0 or 1.2 or skip entering it.

Trying to follow the "flashing BIOS" instructions for
cases when you had to use old DOS executables as flash
tool might be a waste of effort with more modern BIOS.

Please check whether your BIOS really wants to run a
DOS exe file for anything. More likely, it does not.
If your BIOS just needs a data file, then you do NOT
have to install any DOS on the stick at all. Simply
make sure that the stick is FAT formatted and not
NTFS or ExFAT formatted, then copy your BIOS data
to the stick and let the BIOS do the rest at boot.

Cheers, Eric

PS: You could use GPARTED to check and modify which
filesystem your stick uses, with user-friendly GUI.
Just make sure to write the stick, not OTHER disks.

PPS: IF you find out that you really want to run DOS
executables, you can install a boot floppy image on
a stick instead of using entire DOS distro images.



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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Rugxulo]

Hi again,

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 5:07 PM, Rugxulo  wrote:
>
> On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Kevin McCormick  wrote:
>
>> I have created several bootable usb sticks with syslinux and FreeDOS, but
>> they enter the FreeDOS Setup menu when they are booted.

Usually you press F5 to skip startup files (or single-step via F8).
IIRC, that depends upon not using "SWITCHES=/F /N" in CONFIG.SYS
(which saves a few seconds at bootup if you don't need the delay).

> In theory, I could make you a minimal 64 MB .img from a bootable
> FreeDOS jump drive (which would .ZIP to less than 1 MB). You could
> then low-level copy it onto larger drives, but it would only see 64 MB
> of space (presumably plenty for BIOS data??).

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/metados/metados-0.6-on-64mb-jump-drive.zip

I reformatted my (really old) jump drive with RUFUS (and its own
minimal FreeDOS install) atop Win7. But I deleted those few files and
just unpacked the metados.img via 7z. I also commented out SWITCHES,
as mentioned above, in FDCONFIG.SYS. So you'll probably still need to
press F5 at bootup. Since this is the vanilla MetaDOS image, full
sources are available in the same subdir on iBiblio. It's not a lot of
files, so it takes up (roughly) 1 MB ZIP'd.

For some odd reason, it never boots correctly on this Lenovo desktop,
but I also tested it successfully on my Dell laptop. Some obscure
partition error, but it's probably not worth worrying about. Just try
it, and see what happens. At worst, you waste a whole minute doing
(while unmounted) "cat metados*.img | pv > /dev/sdd" (or whatever).

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Ralf Quint]

On 4/7/2018 3:07 PM, Rugxulo wrote:

Hi,

N.B. Keep in mind that traditional BIOS (CSM) is going away entirely
in favor of UEFI. So, in future, you'll never have this problem again!

Well, it's just a trade in, you will just get different problems. Just 
try to recover a PC (or worse, laptop) that has it's UEFI setup trashed, 
for example by a faulty Windows 10 update... (I have three such corpses 
laying around here)


Ralf

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Rugxulo]

Hi,

N.B. Keep in mind that traditional BIOS (CSM) is going away entirely
in favor of UEFI. So, in future, you'll never have this problem again!

On Sat, Apr 7, 2018 at 7:54 AM, Kevin McCormick  wrote:
>
> I omitted to say that my operating system is Linux, Slackware 14.2.  The
> Windows solutions of Rufus or a dos formatted usb stick don't work for me
> since these require some form of Windows.  Unetbootin also does not work
> with FreeDOS I.2, but even with a 1.0 image, the usb stick goes into the
> setup routine.

There was a writeup on one guy's blog about FD 1.1 under Linux
("FreeDOS 1.1 Bootable USB Image"), see here:

http://joelinoff.com/blog/?p=431

> I  am now looking at:
>  https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Flashing_BIOS_from_Linux
> and
>  https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/BIOS_Update#FreeDOS_environment

I'm no expert, but here's some more links:

* https://wiki.debian.org/FlashBIOS
* https://wiki.debian.org/DualBoot/FreeDOS
* 
https://www.dell.com/support/article/us/en/19/sln171755/updating-the-dell-bios-in-linux-and-ubuntu-environments?lang=en#Creating%20a%20USB%20Bootable%20Storage%20Device

> I have created several bootable usb sticks with syslinux and FreeDOS, but
> they enter the FreeDOS Setup menu when they are booted.

Perhaps you want (Perl-based) sys-freedos-linux?

https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/dos/sys/sys-freedos-linux/sys-freedos-linux.zip

> I believe I want just the COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, and a few other files to have 
> the DOS
> functionality that will be needed for the bios update .EXE file.

MSDOS.SYS + IO.SYS = KERNEL.SYS (at least, in FreeDOS)

Bare bones would be shell, kernel, config files, and possibly other
things (e.g. XMS memory manager, keyboard or mouse drivers, etc).

* 
https://www.ibiblio.org/pub/micro/pc-stuff/freedos/files/distributions/unofficial/metados/

> I imagine the .EXE has the bios rom image included, so some compression 
> software is probably needed.

I don't understand what you mean here. I doubt you need any
compression software for this, but I too don't reflash BIOSes a lot.

> The MSI bios upgrade process is in the initial boot, where you are supposed
> to press DEL to enter bios setup and then select something like M-FLASH or
> FLASH BIOS which then asks you to select a file from the USB stick.  At this
> point the upgrade process stops with a message like unusable file or missing
> files or something which I don't remember exactly.

What file system are you using? Maybe it only recognizes certain ones?
FAT16? FAT32? Dunno.

Part of the problem with pre-made images is differently-sized disks.
In theory, I could make you a minimal 64 MB .img from a bootable
FreeDOS jump drive (which would .ZIP to less than 1 MB). You could
then low-level copy it onto larger drives, but it would only see 64 MB
of space (presumably plenty for BIOS data??).

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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Eric Auer]

Hi Kevin,

the point was that if you have a modern BIOS, it will
just look for a data file on a FAT-formatted USB stick
and then update *itself* - You do NOT have to boot any
DOS from the stick to do that. Of course you can exit
the setup of FreeDOS 1.0 or 1.2 or skip entering it.

Trying to follow the "flashing BIOS" instructions for
cases when you had to use old DOS executables as flash
tool might be a waste of effort with more modern BIOS.

Please check whether your BIOS really wants to run a
DOS exe file for anything. More likely, it does not.
If your BIOS just needs a data file, then you do NOT
have to install any DOS on the stick at all. Simply
make sure that the stick is FAT formatted and not
NTFS or ExFAT formatted, then copy your BIOS data
to the stick and let the BIOS do the rest at boot.

Cheers, Eric

PS: You could use GPARTED to check and modify which
filesystem your stick uses, with user-friendly GUI.
Just make sure to write the stick, not OTHER disks.

PPS: IF you find out that you really want to run DOS
executables, you can install a boot floppy image on
a stick instead of using entire DOS distro images.



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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Kevin McCormick]

I omitted to say that my operating system is Linux, Slackware 14.2.  The
Windows solutions of Rufus or a dos formatted usb stick don't work for
me since these require some form of Windows.  Unetbootin also does not
work with FreeDOS I.2, but even with a 1.0 image, the usb stick goes
into the setup routine. 

I  am now looking at:
 https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/Flashing_BIOS_from_Linux
and
 https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/BIOS_Update#FreeDOS_environment

I do not want to brick the motherboard or reformat the hard drive, and
since I rarely upgrade bios I am not familiar with the process.  I do
have a Windows virtualbox guest on the computer, but the usb stick is
not accessible from that.  I think there is some process for doing that,
but I haven't looked into it.

I have created several bootable usb sticks with syslinux and FreeDOS,
but they enter the FreeDOS Setup menu when they are booted.  I believe I
want just the COMMAND.COM, IO.SYS, and a few other files to have the DOS
functionality that will be needed for the bios update .EXE file.  I
imagine the .EXE has the bios rom image included, so some compression
software is probably needed.

The MSI bios upgrade process is in the initial boot, where you are
supposed to press DEL to enter bios setup and then select something like
M-FLASH or FLASH BIOS which then asks you to select a file from the USB
stick.  At this point the upgrade process stops with a message like
unusable file or missing files or something which I don't remember exactly.

Thanks

On 04/06/2018 08:58 AM, Kevin McCormick wrote:
> Hello all,
>
> I subscribed to this list because I am having a lot of trouble making
> a simple dos usb stick to upgrade my computer bios.  It is appalling
> that the my motherboard manufacturer does not have the tools for linux
> (or windows for that matter) and the AMI bios is equally appalling. 
> However, I really don't want to buy another motherboard.
>
> I have no trouble installing freedos into a qemu virtual disk, or
> making a bootable usb stick, but I don't know how to get around the
> freedos setup routine and just have the functionality of a dos boot
> floppy.  Basically, I think I want to copy the necessary "base" files
> onto the usb stick and have the needed /sys files.  I believe that is
> enough for the bios flash to work.
>
> The motherboard is MSI 7677 E61 (B3) mini-tx intel socket 1155.
>
> Thanks
>
>
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Re: [Freedos-user] usb stick for bios upgrade

[Felix Miata]

Kevin McCormick composed on 2018-04-06 08:58 (UTC-0500):

> I subscribed to this list because I am having a lot of trouble making a
> simple dos usb stick to upgrade my computer bios.  It is appalling that
> the my motherboard manufacturer does not have the tools for linux (or
> windows for that matter) and the AMI bios is equally appalling. 
> However, I really don't want to buy another motherboard.

> I have no trouble installing freedos into a qemu virtual disk, or making
> a bootable usb stick, but I don't know how to get around the freedos
> setup routine and just have the functionality of a dos boot floppy. 
> Basically, I think I want to copy the necessary "base" files onto the
> usb stick and have the needed /sys files.  I believe that is enough for
> the bios flash to work.

> The motherboard is MSI 7677 E61 (B3) mini-tx intel socket 1155.

You don't need a bootable USB stick. Any FAT USB stick Windows can read will do,
because all the stick needs to have on it is the unpacked new BIOS. The way I
read https://www.msi.com/Motherboard/support/H61IE35_B3#down-bios the BIOS will
read the stick to find the new BIOS and install it if you simply follow the
instructions on:

https://www.msi.com/files/pdf/How_to_flash_the_BIOS.pdf

IOW, you *don't* need *any* bootable OS to be able to Flash the MSI BIOS. I have
a B85 MSI. All I had to do was put the new BIOS on a stick, go into BIOS setup,
and follow my nose.
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 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/

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