Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
On 30.3.2015 14:58, Gokulnath wrote: Thanks for the update. The reason for weigh in the Kerberos option is to have that as an option to disable if needed, security is more important. I had to say this because there was a question on why I would disable it. I would argue that by using plain LDAP with user+password combination or certificate-based login (private key) you are actually making things worse for scenarios where attacker can have access to memory from time to time. Password and private key are long-term secrets, i.e. are highly sensitive and in described case used for every authentication. In case of Kerberos, long-term secret is used only once to obtain session key (TGT or other ticket) and this session key has limited lifetime so stolen session key gives the attacker access only for a limited time. Anyway, this is just an academic discussion. Do not use cloud services if you are worried about this kind of attacks. Petr^2 Spacek I agree that the otp should definitely provide some additional layer of security. Let me test and reply back. Thanks again. Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 30, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 10:27 PM, Gokulnath wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. You can use Kerberos in the cloud. It is not worse of better than certs. If you can read memory of a machine you can (potentially) read its keys. But this is the general risk that you take going into the cloud regardless whether you use PKI or Kerberos. In general you do not want to store long term keys in the images but rather add them on the fly when the system is instantiated. The ipa-client-install with OTP registration code provides this capability. It seems that you are trying to overcomplicate things with no obvious reason. If you need help with picking a better approach lest us know what exactly you are trying to accomplish. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
Hi, As far as I understand it Kerberos service tickets are granted for a user to access a particular principle (host/service@REALM) and cannot be reused. Kerberos uses symmetric key cryptography so, if someone were able to access the memory of the machine, then they may indeed be able to snoop your user password although I am quite sure passwords are kept hashed in the Keytab. If you are so worried that someone would go to the trouble hack the virtualisation layer and copy chunks of memory then you should really be reconsidering your use of cloud services. People hacking kerberos will be the least of your problems if you have data that is that sensitive on there. If you could point me to some documentation on the specific attack you are trying to mitigate that would be nice. Thanks, Andrew On 30 March 2015 at 04:27, Gokulnath gokulna...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
On 30.3.2015 09:28, Andrew Holway wrote: Hi, As far as I understand it Kerberos service tickets are granted for a user to access a particular principle (host/service@REALM) and cannot be reused. Kerberos uses symmetric key cryptography so, if someone were able to access the memory of the machine, then they may indeed be able to snoop your user password although I am quite sure passwords are kept hashed in the Keytab. If you are so worried that someone would go to the trouble hack the virtualisation layer and copy chunks of memory then you should really be reconsidering your use of cloud services. People hacking kerberos will be the least of your problems if you have data that is that sensitive on there. If you could point me to some documentation on the specific attack you are trying to mitigate that would be nice. Thanks, Andrew On 30 March 2015 at 04:27, Gokulnath gokulna...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. Let me add that DNS server is an optional component and will not be installed if you do not specify --setup-dns option. In that case you have to add necessary DNS records by hand to make FreeIPA fully functional. Petr^2 Spacek I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
On 30/03/15 04:27, Gokulnath wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? IPA clients require properly configured DNS, if you plan to use only server IMO it should work. 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. DNS is optional part of installation, by default DNS is not installed. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Martin Basti -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
On 03/29/2015 10:27 PM, Gokulnath wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. You can use Kerberos in the cloud. It is not worse of better than certs. If you can read memory of a machine you can (potentially) read its keys. But this is the general risk that you take going into the cloud regardless whether you use PKI or Kerberos. In general you do not want to store long term keys in the images but rather add them on the fly when the system is instantiated. The ipa-client-install with OTP registration code provides this capability. It seems that you are trying to overcomplicate things with no obvious reason. If you need help with picking a better approach lest us know what exactly you are trying to accomplish. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
Thanks for the update. The reason for weigh in the Kerberos option is to have that as an option to disable if needed, security is more important. I had to say this because there was a question on why I would disable it. I agree that the otp should definitely provide some additional layer of security. Let me test and reply back. Thanks again. Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 30, 2015, at 7:48 AM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 10:27 PM, Gokulnath wrote: Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. You can use Kerberos in the cloud. It is not worse of better than certs. If you can read memory of a machine you can (potentially) read its keys. But this is the general risk that you take going into the cloud regardless whether you use PKI or Kerberos. In general you do not want to store long term keys in the images but rather add them on the fly when the system is instantiated. The ipa-client-install with OTP registration code provides this capability. It seems that you are trying to overcomplicate things with no obvious reason. If you need help with picking a better approach lest us know what exactly you are trying to accomplish. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
[Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
Re: [Freeipa-users] Can freeIPA work without Kerberos and DNS
Thanks for getting back. 1. As security Kerberos can ticket and in memory can be taken and that session key Can be used to gain access every where. Primarily this because the plan is to use the solution in cloud. 2. Can I disable DNS as well? And have IPA to run only ldap, ssh key rotation and pki ? 3. As during the install, DNS and Kerberos are getting installed and configured. I would really appreciate if you can get back. Thank you Gokul Sent from iPhone On Mar 29, 2015, at 8:44 PM, Dmitri Pal d...@redhat.com wrote: On 03/29/2015 11:50 AM, Gokul wrote: Hi, I am tried to run some of my user cases with FreeIPA. Have FreeIPA to do only SSH key management in LDAP and PKI management. The understand that every request is kerberized and it has the DNS is must configuration. Can I have FreeIPA to run only SSH Key management with LDAP and a PKI server with dogtag? Thank you Gokul You can't turn off Kerberos. You would need Kerberos for administration. But other clients can take advantage of LDAP and SSH only. However you are significantly limiting your functionality and capabilities. Kerberos is really the key of the solution. What is the reason you try to avoid using it? -- Thank you, Dmitri Pal Sr. Engineering Manager IdM portfolio Red Hat, Inc. -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project -- Manage your subscription for the Freeipa-users mailing list: https://www.redhat.com/mailman/listinfo/freeipa-users Go to http://freeipa.org for more info on the project
