Coffee Group friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
I can't remember the source (sorry) but I do remember some expert
saying that the problem isn't just that the climate
is warming. We've already pointed out the the Earth has been much
hotter than it is now. He said
Applied Complexity Coffee Group friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
On 8/12/07, David Mirly [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) It would be wise to attempt to minimize our impacts on such a
complex system when we don't even partially understand
To:The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
On Aug 12, 2007, at 12:07 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
On 8/12/07, David Mirly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) It would be wise to attempt to minimize our impacts on such a
complex
] Edge: The Need for Heretics
In 1993, Paul Hawken wrote a good book on externalities titled The
Ecology of Commerce.
I imagine most of the readers of this list already know of this book,
but for those who don't it's
a decent work.
On Aug 12, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
On Aug 12
The Copenhagen Consensus is a Danish think-tank that gets economists and
politicians to address the question in a world of limited resources, if we
cannot do everything at once what should we do first?. The top-4 ratings
from their 2006 meeting are:
1. communicable diseases
2. sanitation
Robert Holmes wrote:
But then the rational part of me recognizes that you probably do get
far more bang for your buck (in social welfare terms) with these
problems: they are (relatively) well understood and interventions have
a rapid effect on a huge number of people. In contrast, climate
On 8/12/07, Robert Holmes [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The Copenhagen Consensus is a Danish think-tank that gets economists and
politicians to address the question in a world of limited resources, if we
cannot do everything at once what should we do first?. The top-4 ratings
from their 2006
What an interesting list! Note that the same Challenge may occur
multiple times due to a different Opportunity (solution).
Communicable Diseases occurs 3 times and Malnutrition and Hunger 4
times, for example. That's good, makes the list specific solution
oriented, thus clearer on cost
I can't remember the source (sorry) but I do remember some expert
saying that the problem isn't just that the climate
is warming. We've already pointed out the the Earth has been much
hotter than it is now. He said the problem is that
it is warming up too fast (because of human activity) and
Dyson writes:
To stop the carbon in the atmosphere from increasing, we only need to
grow the biomass in the soil by a hundredth of an inch per year. Good
topsoil contains about ten percent biomass, [Schlesinger, 1977], so a
hundredth of an inch of biomass growth means about a tenth of an
On 8/12/07, David Mirly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) It would be wise to attempt to minimize our impacts on such a
complex system when we don't even partially understand the consequences.
Just to beat on the defenders of the status quo some more, their rationale
for denying climate change and
Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
This from the Edge: Freeman Dyson talking about the need for heretics
in science:
http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge219.html#dysonf
Interestingly enough, his first shot is at global warming!
But the real story is that he
.com/
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Douglas Roberts
Sent: Saturday, August 11, 2007 10:01 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
Owen,
I find it quite refreshing
Of Robert Holmes
Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 10:05 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
The Copenhagen Consensus is a Danish think-tank that gets economists and
politicians to address the question in a world of limited resources
: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
On Aug 11, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Phil Henshaw wrote:
...
Of the three main energy sources, fossil, nuclear, and
competition for
land, which would you recommend for providing exponential
increases of
energy forever, without consequences?
I'm
On Aug 12, 2007, at 12:07 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote:
On 8/12/07, David Mirly [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
2) It would be wise to attempt to minimize our impacts on such a
complex system when we don't even partially understand the
consequences.
Just to beat on the defenders of the status quo
In 1993, Paul Hawken wrote a good book on externalities titled The
Ecology of Commerce.
I imagine most of the readers of this list already know of this book,
but for those who don't it's
a decent work.
On Aug 12, 2007, at 1:26 PM, Owen Densmore wrote:
On Aug 12, 2007, at 12:07 PM, Roger
Interestingly enough, the two pernicious forms of growth are
population, and energy intensity per capita.
The only well-established way to halt population growth (that I know
of) is economic development through industrialization. Which, to
date, has meant greater energy intensity and more
This from the Edge: Freeman Dyson talking about the need for heretics
in science:
http://www.edge.org/documents/archive/edge219.html#dysonf
Interestingly enough, his first shot is at global warming!
But the real story is that he want's *young* heretics, not old ones.
Plenty of them and they
Certainly there is a need for heretics and I consider myself a minor heretic
and mystic outlaw, but to deny the reality of global warming/climate change
is just stupid. Freeman should look outside himself and look at the latest
IPCC reports and the NSIC report which Nick (and others) have
On 8/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Certainly there is a need for heretics and I consider myself a minor
heretic and mystic outlaw, but to deny the reality of global warming/climate
change is just stupid. snip
No it's not. Given the conclusion of the IPCC report that
On Aug 11, 2007, at 3:42 PM, Robert Holmes wrote:
On 8/11/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Certainly there is a need for heretics and I consider myself a minor
heretic and mystic outlaw, but to deny the reality of global
warming/climate
change is just stupid. snip
No
Indeed!
BTW: Just as a pointer:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleoclimatology
.. has an overview of Paleoclimatology
Note the quote:
Changes in the atmosphere may also exert an important influence
over climate change. The establishment of CO2-consuming (and oxygen-
producing)
On Aug 11, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Phil Henshaw wrote:
...
Of the three main energy sources, fossil, nuclear, and competition for
land, which would you recommend for providing exponential increases of
energy forever, without consequences?
I'm a (modified) nuke kinda guy.
By modified, I mean the
I am frankly mystified by the conversation. No one I know of who is
legitimately evaluating the data pretends to have any certainty as to
the anthropogenic component. The issues have to do with the
likelihood of continued warming; the effects that that trend would
have; the risks and
@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] Edge: The Need for Heretics
On Aug 11, 2007, at 8:17 PM, Phil Henshaw wrote:
...
Of the three main energy sources, fossil, nuclear, and competition for
land, which would you recommend for providing exponential increases of
energy forever, without consequences?
I'm
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