Dear Victoria I appreciate that you have contacted me directly. I emphaticially state that I have never believed that these are "infantie prattlings" and I'm sorry I've led you to believe so..
It wan't a "hypothetical / mythic Englishman" and neither were the word mine. The words were those of Swami Dayanand Saraswati (founder of Arya Samaj) referring to Max Muller (I suspect) and as extracted from the preceding link I gave to an online PDF file . Hope this clears the confusion.. PS I'm posting my reply to the FROAM list in case anybody else there misunderstood me. Once again thanks for pointing this out. Sarbajit On 2/17/12, Victoria Hughes <victo...@toryhughes.com> wrote: > Mr. Roy- > Re: > >> That is whole; this is whole; >>> From that whole this whole came; >>> From that whole, this whole removed, >> What remains is whole. >> >> The Englishman stopped his study at that point and did not go >> further! He said that the UpaniSads are the "prattlings of an >> infantile mind." >> >> Which point of view is correct? Is this verse something which is >> wondrous and profound or is it just "infantile prattlings"?" >> > Whatever your personal and intellectual beliefs, you come from a land > inestimably rich in deep spiritual traditions, traditions that in many > ways are much more humane and functional than Old Testament > Christianity. I am a student of the Vedas, and even taught myself > Sanskrit so I could attempt to read the Gita in the original and > understand better. > > When Russell's latest Friam email to you appeared, I was stunned that > you could - anyone could - for a nanosecond seriously consider these > words to be no more that "infantile prattlings". I thought of various > short responses I might make. I thought of how to add a comment. How > to condense the thousands of years of deep committed practice implicit > in the Vedas into a few witty phrases. I am just a student. The power > of these early Vedic writings lies precisely in their attempt to > define something whose nature is not definable. The Sanskrit does its > best: but even this language, known for puns, double entendres, layers > of meaning everywhere, can only point toward an experience of the > whole. Language cuts apart and wraps edges around ideas, to separate > 'cat' from 'dog', 'man' from 'woman'. How can language then accurately > express absence of edges, that whole is this whole. > > The Upanishads and the Gita strike a personal chord that none of > Christianity does. I envy you your innate connection with such power > and beauty, with the majesty of spirit. > Why not ask within yourself for this answer, rather than someone > outside of you? Do you truly think it likely that the Isha Upanishad > is nothing more than infantile prattlings? > The blind arrogant ignorance of this mythic Englishman is bad > enough. But that you, fortunate enough to be surrounded by this > tradition, would seriously inquire if he was right, when me, nominally > Lutheran, feel my heart break open at the beauty and truth in these > writings, saddens me. > > Thank you for your time- > Victoria > > > Tory Hughes > unusual objects and unique adornments > www.toryhughes.com > www.toryhughes-galleryshop.com > > > > > > > > On Feb 16, 2012, at 3:22 PM, Russell Standish wrote: > >> On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 10:22:02PM +0530, Sarbajit Roy wrote: >>> Dear Russel >>> >>> This may be somewhat Odd-Topic for this list. (apologies) >>> >>> Thanks for mentioning your book, I've located the PDF. >>> >>> Chapter 2 starts with Gospel John 1:1 >>> >>> "In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the >>> Word was God." >>> >>> I wonder if this would compare with a verse from the "Ishavasya >>> Upanishad" (its one of the deprecated Vedas) "purnamadah purnamidam >>> ... " which is a conventional entry point to the study of Vedas... >>> and >>> not mentioned in your book at ll. >>> >>> http://revolutionwithin.me/2009/11/03/the-whole-remains-whole-oneness-and-nothingness/ >>> >>> www.arshavidyacenter.org/verse/purna.pdf >>> >>> <snip> >>> "Om pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM pUrNAt pUrNamudacyate >>> PUrNasya pUrNamAdAya pUrNamEvAvashiSyate >>> >>> This is an innocuous looking verse: one noun, two pronouns, three >>> verbs and a particle for emphasis. Yet, someone once said: "Let all >>> the UpaniSads disappear from the face of the earth - I don't mind so >>> long as this one verse remains." >>> >>> Can one small verse be so profound? "Of course not. Utter >>> nonsense!" would have been the response of a certain Englishman, who >>> did not find the verse sensible at all, let alone profound. This >>> Englishman, who was something of a scholar, asked a pundit to teach >>> him the UpaniSads. The pundit, agreeing, began the course of study >>> with ISAvAsyOpaniSad, the text traditionally studied first by a new >>> student. The text begins with the SantipaTa (prayer verse): "Om >>> pUrNamadah pUrNamidaM ." The pundit carefully translated the opening >>> verse into English: >>> >>> That is whole; this is whole; >>>> From that whole this whole came; >>>> From that whole, this whole removed, >>> What remains is whole. >>> >>> The Englishman stopped his study at that point and did not go >>> further! He said that the UpaniSads are the "prattlings of an >>> infantile mind." >>> >>> Which point of view is correct? Is this verse something which is >>> wondrous and profound or is it just "infantile prattlings"?" >>> >>> >> >> John 1:1 is rather flowery and redundant text, but that could be to >> emphasise what is being said. It kind of makes sense, at least in >> comparison with what I discuss on that chapter. >> >> As I'm prone to say, the Bible is the most influential work of fiction >> in English literature, although Shakespeare must be close. It is a >> good source of quotable quotes. >> >> As for the Upanishads, the English translation doesn't immediately >> make sense to me. That could be because I don't have the requisite >> cultural background, or it could be that the translation is far from >> perfect. I wouldn't just assume that they are "infantile prattlings". >> >> Cheers >> >> -- >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> Prof Russell Standish Phone 0425 253119 (mobile) >> Principal, High Performance Coders >> Visiting Professor of Mathematics hpco...@hpcoders.com.au >> University of New South Wales http://www.hpcoders.com.au >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> ============================================================ >> FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv >> Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College >> lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org >> > > ============================================================ FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College lectures, archives, unsubscribe, maps at http://www.friam.org
