Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of glen
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 10:35 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Well, this reminds me of hidden state machines and the law of requisite
variety. If we're trying to explain why humans have persnickety preferences
du/nthompson/
From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 10:49 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
"Couldn’t this also be part of a parcel of adaptations present in mothers to
call an audible w
On 1/13/22 5:48 PM, Marcus Daniels wrote:
Anyway, the reason I noticed this article is that I posit that the
steely harm reduction approach that was discussed recently is in my
mind a form of stoicism. Can one put away their emotional responses
and make hard choices based on the greater
experience. Perhaps
offering parallax, perhaps just arbitrarily different.
From: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 11:07 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
OK. If we talked in terms that allowed
rom: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 10:35 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
OK. If the answer is "yes" at least in some special cases, then why can't the answer be
"yes" in the large intimate network sense? What'
> Marcus
>
> ________
> From: Friam on behalf of glen
>
> Sent: Friday, January 14, 2022 9:34 AM
> To: friam@redfish.com
> Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>
> Well, this reminds me of hidden state machines and the law of
ubject line, there may be some weak tendency one has to
share or not share by default depending on hormones/genetics.
From: Friam on behalf of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:12 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for
gt;
> As it relates to the subject line, there may be some weak tendency one has to
> share or not share by default depending on hormones/genetics.
>
> From: Friam on behalf of Marcus Daniels
>
> Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:12 PM
> To:
; n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:02 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Gr
not share by default depending on hormones/genetics.
From: Friam on behalf of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:12 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
< So, I'd argue against you completely. This ess
/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:02 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Frank,
Sexual orientation being associated with hormonal concentrations durin
>>
>>> You’re probably right.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Perhaps bonobo sexuality is the primitive state.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> “Bub”
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Nick Thompson
>>>
>>>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 12, 2022 8:33 PM
>> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
>> friam@redfish.com>
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>>
>>
>>
>>
tendency one has to
share or not share by default depending on hormones/genetics.
From: Friam on behalf of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:12 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
< So, I'd argue against
From: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 4:55 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
What's interesting about that essay is its appeal to character or "virtue
ethics", I think. I've tried to a
Wow! So you missed the threads where Pieter was trying to compensate for the
lack of the vaccines in South Africa? We had whole conversations about how
trustworthy Bret is w.r.t. his advocacy of ivermectin. FWIW, I think it's fine
to try ivermectin IF YOUR DOCTOR suggests such. But taking
What's interesting about that essay is its appeal to character or "virtue ethics", I
think. I've tried to address this a few times in past threads, especially when concepts like
"bad faith" arise. Rittenhouse' crying looked precisely like bad faith to me. I get
accused of it a lot because I
not
just overbearing on how men should be, but also on how women should be.
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/13/opinion/toxic-masculinity.html
From: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 7:47 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene
U , "siblings".
Nick Thompson
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-Original Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:36 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [F
fast. "Pt!"
But I love you all like brothers.
Nick
Nick Thompson
thompnicks...@gmail.com
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
-Original Message-
From: Friam On Behalf Of David Eric Smith
Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2022 5:36 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied
Excellent! Both EricS' and Marcus' answers to the "dumb", "bizarre", "boneheaded", etc.
descriptors helps explain why they have that reaction. Both answers allude to higher order operators and the (often
abusive) motivations for choosing homosexuality instead of a more tractable aspect like
would be higher
the earlier it happened in development.
Marcus
From: Friam on behalf of Frank Wimberly
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 8:21 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
What
rdpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Eric Charles
> *Sent:* Wednesday, January 12, 2022 8:33 PM
> *To:* The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homos
Charles
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 8:33 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Nick,
No, no, no... you have the pedagogical point backwards... They are starting
with some weird view that homosexuals ar
me molds.
>
> I wasn’t sure that erics #3 isn’t so much an alternative as the cultural
> level description of the consequences of the others.
>
>
>
> N
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:*
stop the pregnancies before it is too
late? Parochialism is probably a deep psychological property and not a
superficial one, like homosexuality.
From: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 3:54 PM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re:
But why would this "evolutionary explanation for X" be any more bizarre than any other question?
That's what's interesting to me. I don't see people claiming that asking about, say, a new virus variant is a
bizarre question to ask. Why does the subject of homosexuality evoke accusations of
ing Applied Complexity Coffee Group <
> friam@redfish.com>
> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>
> The framing that this question has has always felt so bizarre to me, but I
> have struggled to explain why, and what would not be bizarre. It feels
> like
Your first and last paragraphs sound like in person conversations that Nick
and I have had. Sorry, Nick.
---
Frank C. Wimberly
140 Calle Ojo Feliz,
Santa Fe, NM 87505
505 670-9918
Santa Fe, NM
On Wed, Jan 12, 2022, 2:37 PM David Eric Smith wrote:
> The framing that this question has has
Marcus
From: Friam on behalf of David Eric Smith
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 2:36 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
The framing that this question has has always felt so bizarre to me,
du/nthompson/
From: Friam On Behalf Of Eric Charles
Sent: Wednesday, January 12, 2022 12:04 PM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Re potential evolutionary explanations for homosexuality: They really don't
have to be ver
ary 12, 2022 11:04 AM
To: The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Re potential evolutionary explanations for homosexuality: They really don't
have to be very convoluted at all.
I prepared a worksheet for a class 15 or so years ago,
Re potential evolutionary explanations for homosexuality: They really don't
have to be very convoluted at all.
I prepared a worksheet for a class 15 or so years ago, after a bunch of
students starting trying use homosexuality as proof that evolution couldn't
explain (any) behavior. I'd rather
: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
I went to elementary school with a guy,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_Hamer, whose wikipedia bio describes
research in the the genetic basis of sexual orientation that he did at NIH in
the 1990's.
-- rec --
On Sun, Jan 9, 2022 at 5:15 AM Jochen
t;
> I haven’t read up on that subject for 2 decades.
>
>
>
> Anybody know any facts?
>
>
>
> n
>
>
>
> Nick Thompson
>
> thompnicks...@gmail.com
>
> https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
>
>
>
> *From:* Friam *On Behalf Of *Marcus
igh] After 60, though, it's gone for good ...
assuming I live that long.>
Soon, any hair you want? https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7508456/
From: Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 11:55 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRI
Yeah, Renee's making me keep my biologically enforced "mullet". I went 10
glorious years cutting it all off each week. It's great to use the same clipper setting
for your head that you use for your face. So I reluctantly agreed to 10 years with this
mullet. [sigh] After 60, though, it's gone
, 2022 11:48 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
I started, but didn't finish some podcast, wherein the guest claimed that
(real-life) vampires exemplify how good some strange subcultures can be. He was
arguing that the vampire he allowed to suck his
wrong and it is a delicate topic. There are many books about the sociologal and
psychological aspects of it. In the library I usually ignore them because it is not a topic
I am especially interested in. Therefore my knowledge is incomplete in this area, and
someone else here can
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 9:25 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Buddhism (mostly the Theravada branch) recognizes four sexes: male, female,
hermaphrodite, and anaphrodite. Hermaphrodite does not mandate dual sexual
apparatus and the category in
friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
To me, they seem very different. Hope is more of a feeling, like anger or love,
whereas optimism is more of a cognitive bias. I tend to be an optimist, but am
largely hopeless. It waxes and wanes, but is usually swamped by fe
---
>> *From:* Friam on behalf of glen
>>
>> *Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 8:25 AM
>> *To:* friam@redfish.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
>> One
To me, they seem very different. Hope is more of a feeling, like anger or love,
whereas optimism is more of a cognitive bias. I tend to be an optimist, but am
largely hopeless. It waxes and wanes, but is usually swamped by feelings of
overwhelming doom. And my doom helps me stay grounded, I
m:* Friam on behalf of glen
*Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 8:25 AM
*To:* friam@redfish.com
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
One of the themes I've seen talks about a slight correlation between
the presence of homosexuality in a family with female fecundity
(counter in
of glen
*Sent:* Monday, January 10, 2022 8:25 AM
*To:* friam@redfish.com
*Subject:* Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
One of the themes I've seen talks about a slight correlation between the
presence of homosexuality in a family with female fecundity (counter intuitive
to those who talk
Friam on behalf of glen
Sent: Monday, January 10, 2022 8:25 AM
To: friam@redfish.com
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
One of the themes I've seen talks about a slight correlation between the
presence of homosexuality in a family with female fecundity (counter intuitive
to tho
n this area, and someone else here can probably explain it better.
-J.
Original message
From: thompnicks...@gmail.com
Date: 1/9/22 01:39 (GMT+01:00)
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Well, first things first. I
nal message
From: thompnicks...@gmail.com
Date: 1/9/22 01:39 (GMT+01:00)
To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
Well, first things first. Is there any evidence for a genetic basis
for homosexuality. You can,
omplete in this area,
and someone else here can probably explain it better. -J.
Original message From: thompnicks...@gmail.com Date: 1/9/22
01:39 (GMT+01:00) To: 'The Friday Morning Applied Complexity Coffee Group'
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality Well,
first things
/>
https://wordpress.clarku.edu/nthompson/
From: Friam On Behalf Of Marcus Daniels
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 5:57 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: Re: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
It seems like such a dumb question to ask. Why should any preference have a
genetic basis? How about loo
and their children suffer for it.
From: Friam on behalf of ⛧ glen
Sent: Saturday, January 8, 2022 4:13 PM
To: FriAM
Subject: [FRIAM] gene complex for homosexuality
I'm in an ongoing argument with a gay friend about how tortured Darwinian
arguments
I'm in an ongoing argument with a gay friend about how tortured Darwinian
arguments are in accounting for homosexuality. He claims they're VERY
torturous. I'm inclined toward the first mentioned here:
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-26089486
But, were group selection and/or cultural
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