Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-04-01 Thread Edward Angel
That might work for a beginning computer course. I don't think it would work well in other fields. Also, a single credit is rarely of much use to a student and when students try to transfer credits, the usual process requires them to show there is an equivalent course at the college where they w

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-04-01 Thread Bruce Sherwood
Ruth Chabay makes an important comment about the credit issue, one that hasn't come up in this discussion so far. As I said before, we went all the way through Udacity's CS 101 "course", which was excellent. After Ed correctly pointed out that this and the Udacity computer graphics "course" are not

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-04-01 Thread Prof David West
Ed, Cool --- and I think we are generally in agreement in this area as well - again, with the exception of how radical a solution is required. It is my belief that graduate students at Tier One research institutions like UNM are getting a pretty solid education, a professional network, and re

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Roger Critchlow
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Edward Angel wrote: > Of course that's all true but I think you're wiggling out of the essence > of the question. Is the student who is honest and sincere about becoming a > computer scientist (but perhaps not focussed yet on some of the specific > programs at dig

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Edward Angel
Dave, Actually, I had only one very slight disagreement with you which I kind of forgot about by the end of my email. I have no problem with what you are proposing and should have pointed out how I agreed that one of the requirements of all the possible ways we can improve the system is the com

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Prof David West
Ed, I am curious where you disagree / what you disagree with. I see one thing in the post below that is inconsistent with my opinions as stated. I did not address motivations, faculty, or economics - but would agree with everything you said below in those regards. The only point of potent

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Edward Angel
Of course that's all true but I think you're wiggling out of the essence of the question. Is the student who is honest and sincere about becoming a computer scientist (but perhaps not focussed yet on some of the specific programs at digipen) better off going to digipen over UW? You can average y

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Roger Critchlow
On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 1:08 PM, Edward Angel wrote: > > Let me ask you the following question: Do you think that the student who > chooses digipen will get a better CS education that if she went to the > University of Washington which has one of the top CS programs? How does the > answer depend

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Edward Angel
There are a lot statistics for Engineering and CS salaries. I believe the major factor is that while engineering/CS professor salaries have gone up at about the same rate as those in industry, the typical teaching load has more than dropped in half. Consequently, the cost of teaching a student h

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Edward Angel
One of my best former students just left Pixar after 15 years to join Digipen. It will be interesting to talk to him at SIGGRAPH this summer. It's also interesting that he received all his college education in public universities before their costs became ridiculous. Let me ask you the followi

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Bruce Sherwood
I was so eager to correct Roger's typo that I made a typo of my own! Concerning college costs, is it perhaps the case that in the 1950s college professors were paid rather little and now are often paid fairly well? I made a brief stab at digging out the data but didn't find quite what I was lookin

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Roger Critchlow
digipen.com redirects to digipen.edu which is what I meant, digipen.orgdoesn't open at all. -- rec -- On Sun, Mar 31, 2013 at 12:44 PM, Bruce Sherwood wrote: > Roger, it's digipen.org, not digipen.com. > > Bruce > > > FRIAM Applied Co

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Gary Schiltz
http://digipen.edu, anyone? :-) On Mar 31, 2013, at 12:55 PM, Roger Critchlow wrote: > The rankings at http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings are > interesting, because I run out of non-US universities that I recognize in the > rankings long before I run out of US universities tha

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Bruce Sherwood
Roger, it's digipen.org, not digipen.com. Bruce FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mailman/listinfo/friam_redfish.com

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Roger Critchlow
The rankings at http://www.topuniversities.com/university-rankings are interesting, because I run out of non-US universities that I recognize in the rankings long before I run out of US universities that don't appear in the rankings. When I visited the site last spring they were listing tuition co

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Bruce Sherwood
Ed's post is highly cogent, and based on tons of experience. One of his points that I had missed in my own analysis is the key difference between an on-line course taken by on-campus students and remote students who lack the supporting social infrastructure and may be consumed by job and life respo

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-31 Thread Edward Angel
Dave, I don't think interesting describes my response to this post. More like disgusted. I would have said outraged but I'm getting too used to seeing nonsense on the web to respond as I used to. Although I agree with most of the points you and Bruce made, I disagree in a couple of important pl

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-28 Thread Grant Holland
David, Looks like a powerful, if complex, model to me. It even recovers some of the aspects of the apprenticeship model that have been lost - especially that of *community* - that take apprenticeship even beyond mentoring. Your model seems to imply the necessity of community in the education

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-28 Thread Arlo Barnes
So then what is a good system for learning? Self-driven research? Mentorships? Symposia? -Arlo James Barnes FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Fridays 9a-11:30 at cafe at St. John's College to unsubscribe http://redfish.com/mai

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-27 Thread Prof David West
On Wed, Mar 27, 2013, at 09:57 AM, Grant Holland wrote: > David, > > What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Do you, or are you intending to, > teach any MOOCs or other online programs? Does Highlands offer, or plan > to offer any. (I assume you are still at Highlands.) > I left Highlands in Dece

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-27 Thread Bruce Sherwood
I developed and taught an on-line introductory physics course which is still being taught by colleagues at NCSU. The course is a distance version for in-service high school physics teachers of the Matter & Interactions curriculum created by Ruth Chabay and me. The goal of the distance course is not

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-27 Thread Merle Lefkoff
Thanks, Owen, for posting something that has to do with the "real" world. "Here Comes Everybody" as Shirky would say. The advent of e-learning is the single most democratizing event in decades! I just signed a contract in Canada to write the curriculum for the Complexity module as part of a

Re: [FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-27 Thread Grant Holland
David, What is YOUR opinion on the matter? Do you, or are you intending to, teach any MOOCs or other online programs? Does Highlands offer, or plan to offer any. (I assume you are still at Highlands.) Thanks, Grant On 3/27/13 9:19 AM, Prof David West wrote: those discussing MOOCs recently,

[FRIAM] mooc for credit?

2013-03-27 Thread Prof David West
those discussing MOOCs recently, might find this interesting http://techcrunch.com/2013/03/22/72-of-professors-who-teach-online-courses-dont-think-their-students-deserve-credit/ davew FRIAM Applied Complexity Group listserv Meets Frida