Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Durant
It's an empirical fact that democracy is on the way out. In 1981, 35% of the world's population lived under "free" political systems, by 1996 the number fallen to 19%. [1] Well, with democracies only in name, such statistics doesn't make much sense. Why? Even if democracy weren't

Re: How science is really done

1999-01-26 Thread Durant
Mike H: Regarding the subject of what is science and definitions which emphasized observation and rejection of theories when counter factual data is presented, I thought the two following documents would be of interest. Scientists do not as a rule observe and then theorize. They typically

(Fwd) Doomslaying from WHO

1999-01-26 Thread Durant
Some consistent trends expected - special present for Jay...Eva *** *Fifty facts from The World Health Report 1998* *** Global health situation and trends 1955-2025 Population 1. The global population

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Eva Durant
You have the contradiction in your own paragraph: "as just as possible" vs "best possible way" I can't see contradiction. The two have large overlapping section. I think I'd be most upset if I were of your crew; they are NOT stupid, if it WERE the question of life or death, they would have

Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Eva Durant
but not a good enough point in respons the one I made; humans are motivated more for pleasure/happiness than reproduction. That's why babies have to look cute and toy-like at least in our culturaly freer society Even than quite a sizable number decide not to bother. Where is the selfish gene?

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
I agree Tom, but isn't even saying it a little like the proselytizer's answering that the problem is not with the product but the salesman? REH Tom Walker wrote: Ray Harrell wrote, The argument I have made on these lists for a number of years is that this is all related to value. What

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
I said e.g. an operatic part at the Metropolitan costs tops $19,000 per performance. While the same part in Vienna can double that. Why is it worth more in Vienna than here? It has nothing to do with its inherent value as a major part of a great work of art. It has to do with the story that the

Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Cordell, Arthur: DPP
Or, maybe, the selfish gene wants *my * DNA to go forward. Maybe we have no 'program' for the human species. Coming from a wide open world (the hunter gatherer saga) there is nothing in our internal makeup to cause us to cooperate at the level of survival of the human species. This latter

Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Eva Durant
Or, maybe, the selfish gene wants *my * DNA to go forward. Maybe we have no 'program' for the human species. Coming from a wide open world (the hunter gatherer saga) there is nothing in our internal makeup to cause us to cooperate at the level of survival of the human species. This latter

lump of labour stuff

1999-01-26 Thread Eva Durant
It is obvious, that people's life should not depend on the ambiguous ways work is defined and measured. Work is a social collaborative activity, so the products should be socially shared. Simple really... Eva

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Jay Hanson
- Original Message - From: Eva Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED] I think I'd be most upset if I were of your crew; they are NOT stupid, if it WERE the question of life or death, they would have made the same choice as you. First of all you did not know my crew. G Moreover, the reason they have

Re: lump of labour stuff

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
The Aztecs with the largest market in the world at the time, solved the problem by making the Cacoa Bean (a food) the unit of value. Can you imagine Rukeyser abandoning commodoties if they are the unit of money?Then there is the issue of work as a part of the ethos of the culture.

Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Jay Hanson
- Original Message - From: Cordell, Arthur: DPP [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or, maybe, the selfish gene wants *my * DNA to go forward. Maybe we have no 'program' for the human species. Coming from a wide open world (the hunter gatherer saga) there is nothing in our internal makeup to cause us to

HANDBOOK OF EVOLUTIONARY PSYCHOLOGY

1999-01-26 Thread Jay Hanson
- Original Message - From: Eva Durant [EMAIL PROTECTED] the suicidal tendecy of the present system?? Surely the selfish gene wants the human species to survive... No, it want's itself to survive. The selfish gene cares only about itself. Moreover, evolutionary psychology is THE science

Re: lump of labour stuff

1999-01-26 Thread Tom Walker
Eva Durant wrote, It is obvious, that people's life should not depend on the ambiguous ways work is defined and measured. Work is a social collaborative activity, so the products should be socially shared. Simple really... Yes, but. So simple really that it is no longer obvious to those who are

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
Very interesting response Tom, but there are a few problems with your marriage of the metaphors. 1. Unfortunately, the 19th Century Artists who read the 19th century economists and participated in the wars, on their side, were often better composers than the economists were theorists. The

Administrator of list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

1999-01-26 Thread Odze Andrew-EAO003
Can someone get me off this list - it's been weeks that I have been asking! -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 1999 12:01 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: The irrelevance of "the left" Another point I should add to my reply

Re: The lump-of-opera fallacy

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
That reminds me of the economist (William Baumol) who told the composer dean of Juilliard (William Schumann) that he had no complaints as a composer since he had a job as a teacher. (Of course did America have complaints as a culture since we lost so much of his talent to the supposed good of

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Bob McDaniel
Hi This issue reminds me of the difference between equitable and efficient locations. An equitable location (of say, a school) ensures that distances travelled by pupils are as alike as possible (minimizes variation); an efficient location, on the other hand, minimizes the total distance

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Ray E. Harrell
Aw shucks, I was kinda enjoying the mud. I haven't gotten down and dirty in a while and no one more fun to do it with than yourself.Interesting how the problem becomes one of how all of those stupendous talents graduating from school as "professional" actors end up on "Wings" playing

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Cordell, Arthur: DPP
I think there is also the issue of measurement. Economics as we know it comes from the era of hardware, or things, of sailing ships, smokestackes and freightcars. Things that can be observed and measured. In this new-fangled knowledge economy we are still devising ways of measuring (never mind

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Edward Weick
Jay Hanson: First of all you did not know my crew. G Moreover, the reason they have skippers on boats is because they are better trained than crew and passengers. It's a fact of life. Human society is inherently hierarchical for the simple reason that it contributes to "inclusive fitness".

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Jay Hanson
- Original Message - From: Edward Weick [EMAIL PROTECTED] and social complexity grew. While hunting and gathering societies needed only transitory hierarchies, more complex societies needed permanent ones. However, there is no reason on earth why these couldn't be democratic, allowing a

RE: double-ups of mailings

1999-01-26 Thread Cordell, Arthur: DPP
I think this has been solved. Check to see whether you are subbed under two separate email addresses. This might explain the two postings. arthur cordell -- From: vivian Hutchinson To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: double-ups of mailings Date: Wednesday, January 27, 1999 3:30AM Gidday

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Edward Weick
Ray E. Harrell: 2. Opera is truly a holistic art form that encompasses music, drama, dance, the graphic arts, film and anything else that can be used by the composer. There is nothing about Neo-Classical Economics that vaguely resembles the whole of human.

Re: lump of labour stuff

1999-01-26 Thread Mike Hollinshead
Very interesting, Ray. In fact, my reading of the history of religious revivals and awakenings in North America has taught me that it is precisely children abandoning the parents fallen gods that is one of the essences of these events. Adolescents are the primary leaders and followers of the new

Re: Samuelson's lump-of-labor, 1998

1999-01-26 Thread Mike Hollinshead
Ray, This is really important. It is something I have wrestled with in the book. The whole basis for political legitimacy in the industrial age is property - at first land and latterly machines and buildings. Economists and lawyers have tried to deal with the issue you raise by creating the

Re: lump of labour stuff

1999-01-26 Thread Mike Hollinshead
Very interesting, Ray. In fact, my reading of the history of religious revivals and awakenings in North America has taught me that it is precisely children abandoning the parents fallen gods that is one of the essences of these events. Adolescents are the primary leaders and followers of the new

Re: one's fly is unzipped

1999-01-26 Thread Victor Milne
On this thread I'll have to agree with Eva against Jay's contention that a mind is predisposed [by evolution] to reproduce the genes that created it. A human being is predisposed to get laid, which in bygone ages usually had the effect of reproducing the genes. Patriarchy, emphasizing

Re: real-life example

1999-01-26 Thread Edward Weick
Jay Hanson: Democracy makes no sense. If society is seeking a leader with the best skills, the selection should be based on merit -- testing and xperience -- not popularity. Government by popularity contest is a stupid idea. Somehow I'm not at all surprised that this is your point of view.

Re: Administrator of list!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

1999-01-26 Thread Rob Robinson
GET ME OFF THIS LIST! PLEASE! I'VE BEEN TRYING FOR THREE MONTHS. ENOUGH IS ENOUGH! MUCH LONGER, AND I WILL TALK TO MY LAWYER ABOUT DAILY HARASSMENT. Rob Robinson President, Rob Robinson Advertising,

Re: The irrelevance of the left

1999-01-26 Thread Rob Robinson
Tom Walker wrote, in part: ...the union agitator as the fiercely-independent, god-fearing, self-sacrificing hero...the corporate CEO as the conniving villain. Couldn't agree with you more, Tom rob robinson mark twain democratic club

Re: The lump-of-opera fallacy

1999-01-26 Thread Edward Weick
Ray: Being a musician is a full time job whether paid or not and angry artists are often quite destructive. Since they control the mirrors they often contain a destruction that is truly genocidal all in the name of their own view of the world winning a