Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-08-13 Thread Peter Scott
Here is yet another update, with somewhat positive results.

[I hope this information might be useful to other FVWM
afficianados.]

A summary of my original problem appears (far) below.

It turned out that the PROBLEM lay not with either FVWM or
GNOME, but (perhaps as Myles Green suggested) with Fedora 7.
The situation got worse and worse, and eventually I could not
even boot my system.  (It could be that I became infected by a
virus, but I do not really know.)  Since there were several
other rather annoying features involved with F7, and since a
friend made positive comments regarding Scientific Linux
(https://www.scientificlinux.org/) I managed to download the
ISOS for SL 5.0, back up my files onto an otherwise unused
drive, and installed SL 5.0.

SL 5.0, which is the creation of folks at C.E.R.N. and
Fermilab and is patterned after RHEL 5.0, is very nice, and
updates with yum.  It is perhaps closer to FC6 than F7, but
so far working very well for my system.
Its current kernel is 2.6.18-8.1.8.el5.x86_64,
gnome-session is 2.16.0-6.el5.x86_64, and I had no trouble at
all building FVWM 2.5.21 and installing it, where it is the WM
under GNOME.  [By the way, I used libstroke-0.5.1.tar.gz and
it works fine---I see there's a recent post re libstroke.]

---
Also by the way, here is a handy trick that could be noted on
FVWM's FAQ page:  After issuing the command fvwm --replace 
(which worked), I found it desireable to get rid of the
gnome/nautilus desktop.  I did not want the dumb gnome icons
and I wanted to be able to display FVWM menus by clicking on
the root window.  After fiddling around I found this to work
for me (following a suggestion on a mailing list):

gconftool-2 --type bool \
--set /apps/nautilus/preferences/show_desktop false
---

The only other stumbling blocks involved getting the correct
nvidia graphics driver (have to download it from the nvidia
site: NVIDIA-Linux-x86_64-1.0-9742-pkg2.run), getting the
gutenprint epson printer driver to compile so it would find
the correct lib64 libijs.so lib it needed, and enabling X11's
SHAPE extension (put 'Load extmod' in the Module section of
xorg.conf) so that xine would work correctly and my FVWM icons
would honor transparency in their images.

But all is solved now and I am swimming again downstream.

[I now have an FVWM config file that I like, with pretty
extensive comments.  I would be happy to forward it to anyone
who wants it.  I also found it helpful to create a pdf file
from the FVWM man page (using enscript to create a PostScript
file, and then ps2pdf to create the pdf).  Then one may use
acroread to view the file, whose excellent search routine can
then be used to find words or phrases---thus supplying a
useful ersatz index to the FVWM man page.]

-- Peter

==
On Jul 27, 2007 at  3:52 pm, Peter Scott wrote:
| 
| This is an update on this problem, which to summarize, is the following:
| 
| PROBLEM:
| 
| When I installed F7 about a month ago everything worked smoothly; all I
| had to do was to give the fvwm -s 0 --replace command and since I had
| created $HOME/.fvwm with my config file in it, everything worked,
| metacity was replaced by fvwm and I was swimming again.  Sessions are
| saved, and subsequent logins start the gnome-session with fvwm as the
| window manager, just as advertised.
| 
| Right now, however, the fvwm session has ceased to work; windows (like
| xterm or gnome-terminal) are sans title bars and unusable, the
| FvwmButtons panel flashes on and then disappears, the gnome panels are
| gone, and about all I can do from such a state is to hit
| CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to get back to my login screen.
| 
| UPDATE:
| 
| I did some trials, and here is what I am finding:
| 
| The system becomes inoperable (in the sense described above) whenever an
| FVWM module is killed.  The most dramatic example is Module FvwmBanner,
| which, when called (either from the FvwmConsole or from a line in a
| config file), does display the FVWM banner, but after the default 3
| seconds, when it dies, the system behaves as above, and I am reduced to
| CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to recover.
| 
| This also happens for other modules, like FvwmButtons: when invoked, my
| buttons come up, but when the module is killed, either by issueing the
| KillModule FvwmButtons command from the FvwmConsole, or by using xkill
| from an xterm, the system becomes inoperable.
| 
| Other modules yield the same behavior.
| 
| I am using Fedora 7 with kernel version 2.6.22.1-27.fc7.
| My gnome-session version is 2.18.3-1.fc7.
| 
| This behavior occurs whether or not nautilus is running.
| 
| Any suggestions as to what to try?  Probably one thing to try is to
| revert to an earlier version of GNOME, but could there be an alternative
| solution?  I would hate to see FVWM and GNOME get out of sync, since
| FVWM is far and away the best WM.
| 
| Thanks so much for any help,
| 
|

Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-08-13 Thread Thomas Adam
On Mon, Aug 13, 2007 at 04:15:37PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
 [I now have an FVWM config file that I like, with pretty
 extensive comments.  I would be happy to forward it to anyone
 who wants it.  I also found it helpful to create a pdf file
 from the FVWM man page (using enscript to create a PostScript
 file, and then ps2pdf to create the pdf).  Then one may use
 acroread to view the file, whose excellent search routine can
 then be used to find words or phrases---thus supplying a
 useful ersatz index to the FVWM man page.]

There's already a lot of GNOME information relating to FVWM on the FvwmWiki
which you're welcome to add to [1].  If you're that obsessed by your config
you can also add it to the screenshots and configs section of the FVWM
Forums [2].

-- Thomas Adam

[1]  http://fvwmwiki.bu-web.de/FrontPage
[2]  http://fvwm.lair.be

--
He wants you back, he screams into the night air, like a fireman going
through a window that has no fire. -- Mike Myers, This Poem Sucks.



Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-07-27 Thread Peter Scott

This is an update on this problem, which to summarize, is the following:

PROBLEM:

When I installed F7 about a month ago everything worked smoothly; all I
had to do was to give the fvwm -s 0 --replace command and since I had
created $HOME/.fvwm with my config file in it, everything worked,
metacity was replaced by fvwm and I was swimming again.  Sessions are
saved, and subsequent logins start the gnome-session with fvwm as the
window manager, just as advertised.

Right now, however, the fvwm session has ceased to work; windows (like
xterm or gnome-terminal) are sans title bars and unusable, the
FvwmButtons panel flashes on and then disappears, the gnome panels are
gone, and about all I can do from such a state is to hit
CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to get back to my login screen.

UPDATE:

I did some trials, and here is what I am finding:

The system becomes inoperable (in the sense described above) whenever an
FVWM module is killed.  The most dramatic example is Module FvwmBanner,
which, when called (either from the FvwmConsole or from a line in a
config file), does display the FVWM banner, but after the default 3
seconds, when it dies, the system behaves as above, and I am reduced to
CTRL-ALT-BACKSPACE to recover.

This also happens for other modules, like FvwmButtons: when invoked, my
buttons come up, but when the module is killed, either by issueing the
KillModule FvwmButtons command from the FvwmConsole, or by using xkill
from an xterm, the system becomes inoperable.

Other modules yield the same behavior.

I am using Fedora 7 with kernel version 2.6.22.1-27.fc7.
My gnome-session version is 2.18.3-1.fc7.

This behavior occurs whether or not nautilus is running.

Any suggestions as to what to try?  Probably one thing to try is to
revert to an earlier version of GNOME, but could there be an alternative
solution?  I would hate to see FVWM and GNOME get out of sync, since
FVWM is far and away the best WM.

Thanks so much for any help,

-- Peter



Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-07-25 Thread Thomas Adam
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 04:07:03PM -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
 Yes I understand that ~/.fvwm is re-created when FVWM starts; however
 since I had deleted mine (actually moved it to ~/.fvwm.save) there's no
 config file in it.  Nor is there any config file in any of the places
 in the group you list 11 to 18 lines above.  So it just reads the
 ConfigFvwmDefaults file (which is actually, on my machine,
 /usr/share/fvwm/ConfigFvwmDefaults).  OK, so I will try adding lines

Yes, that's right.  (As I said.)  And yes, often is the case that
$(fvwm-config -d) will expand to either /usr/share/fvwm or
/usr/local/share/fvwm.

 (a few lines at a time) and see when things break.  Does that sound like
 a good strategy?  (Thanks for telling me about ConfigFvwmDefaults.)

It does not sound like a good strategy, no.  What is it you're really
wanting (or _think_ you're achieving) by doing that?

 Another possible strategy might be to pull some key lines from
 ConfigFvwmDefaults  (I see, for example, sections labeled
 # Needed by the ewmh support, and # Needed by modules which use
 session management) and insert them into my own config file.
 Any idea what sections might be key?

No, don't do that -- you get all of that for free anyway unless you
explicitly and deliberately override it in your own ~/.fvwm2rc file.  Forget
I ever mentioned ConfigFvwmDefaults -- just leave it alone.

 OK, what I did was to copy system.fvwm2rc from its location in the
 source code directory to ~/.fvwm/ (renaming it config), then log on
 in the usual way for gnome (gnome session with metacity as WM), then,
 from a gnome-terminal, issue the command fvwm -s 0 --replace.  It is
 at this point that things go awry, with fvwm seeming to start correctly
 with a few flashing windows (with correct title bars) and an FvwmButtons
 panel, then both the title bars and the FvwmButtons disappear and I am
 left in the inoperable state I described earlier.

Well that's certainly one way of doing it -- and that people have reported
success with it before now.

 (I also tried the slightly longer method, involving changing metacity to
 normal in the sessions panel (+ apply) then issuing the command
 killall metacity; sleep 2; fvwm ), but neither method works.)

This isn't slightly longer, it's the more correct method.

 What I'm saying is that the above process leads to problems whenever I
 have either my own config or a sample config in ~/.fvwm, but that things
 work correctly if there is no config file to be found in the above list
 of places (and an error message appears on the screen with that list,
 saying no config file found).  So I guess ConfigFvwmDefaults works.  I
 will try putting THAT file in ~/.fvwm (renaming it config) and see if
 that works.

_NO_ -- just leave ConfigFvwmDefaults alone... please?  I suspect what's
happening is that there's something in your ~/.fvwm/config doing something
weird -- such as StartFunction issuing some command, it's hard to say.

I'd wish I'd never mentioned ConfigFvwmDefaults...

-- Thomas Adam

--
He wants you back, he screams into the night air, like a fireman going
through a window that has no fire. -- Mike Myers, This Poem Sucks.



Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-07-25 Thread Peter Scott
On Jul 26, 2007 at 12:16 am, Thomas Adam wrote:
|
|  So I guess ConfigFvwmDefaults works.  I
|  will try putting THAT file in ~/.fvwm (renaming it config) and see if
|  that works.
| 
| _NO_ -- just leave ConfigFvwmDefaults alone... please?  I suspect what's
| happening is that there's something in your ~/.fvwm/config doing something
| weird -- such as StartFunction issuing some command, it's hard to say.
| 
| I'd wish I'd never mentioned ConfigFvwmDefaults...
| 
| -- Thomas Adam
| 
OK, I had not realized that one's own config file's commands get ADDED
to those in FvwmConfigDefaults (rather than replace that entire file).
(Is that right?)  So I will just try altering my config file and see if
that works.  (I will start with just a few commands that should be
harmless.)  But I was surprised that the sample fvwm2rc file also
behaved in a way similar to my own config file, i.e., it did not work.
Maybe I should try all three sample config files.

Oh well.  I will post anything I find that might possibly be useful.  If
something related to gnome just appeared on the scene (an update) that
caused FVWM to misbehave it would be good to know about it.

And actually I'm glad you DID mention ConfigFvwmDefaults, since knowing
of its existence helps the understanding of how FVWM works.

Thanks,

-- Peter



Re: FVWM: suddenly: a gnome-fvwm conflict problem

2007-07-25 Thread Thomas Adam
On Wed, Jul 25, 2007 at 11:52:02AM -0700, Peter Scott wrote:
 1.  If I delete $HOME/.fvwm (so my config file is gone) then fvwm starts
 under the gnome-session, although it complains about not being able to
 find a config (or .fvwm2rc) file.  (What does fvwm use for a config in
 that case?  I have no idea.)  Of course then I get crummy titlebars
 (even over the gnome panels) etc., which I have no idea how to fix.

OK, here's what FVWM does.  (Why some of this isn't documented is beyond
me).  When FVWM loads it loads a *minimal* internal set of commands -- just
the barebones so that *something* happens.  Once that is done, it then goes
on to read:

$(fvwm-config -d)/ConfigFvwmDefaults

It's *this* file which defines some initial key-bindings (for things like
menus) and a few style options, as well as mouse-bindings (needed to
display buttons on the titlebar anyway).  In addition, this file also
defines some of the internal functions such as WindowListFunc.  Often is the
case that one's own ~/.fvwm2rc file overrides some aspects of this anyway.

Once it's done that, then FVWM goes on to look for *one* of the following
files in the order listed, using whichever one comes first:

$HOME/.fvwm/config
/usr/local/share/fvwm/config

$HOME/.fvwm/.fvwm2rc
$HOME/.fvwm2rc
/usr/local/share/fvwm/.fvwm2rc
/usr/local/share/fvwm/system.fvwm2rc
/etc/system.fvwm2rc

As for titlebar removals, you'd need to do that via Style lines in your
~/.fvwm/config file (since you're using FVWM 2.5.21) a la:

Style foo !Title, !Borders

etc...

Note that deleting your ~/.fvwm/ directory means nothing -- FVWM only
recreates it anyway.

 2.  I don't think my config file is at fault, however, since if I
 replace my config file with, say, system.fvwm2rc, or
 system.fvwm2rc-sample-1 (samples that are in the fvwm source distro)
 it also does NOT work.

Which means you can't be forcing FVWM to run under a session manager at all.
What steps are you undertaking to try and do this?

 (Maybe there are other ways to accomplish this, but the above works for
 me.)

A little dated now, but see:

http://linuxgazette.net/100/adam.html

-- Thomas Adam

--
He wants you back, he screams into the night air, like a fireman going
through a window that has no fire. -- Mike Myers, This Poem Sucks.