Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Howdy, My favorite way to do this is to setup a filter. I look for the from address and send it to a special folder I call Garbage. I check that folder infrequently and after I do that for a while, I have changed the filter to actually delete the email. I have just one person in my kill filter at the moment. Strictly speaking, the email would still get to your inbox, but you never see it. Good day, Ralph On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 12:40 -0500, Brian wrote: How about an on topic discussion for once? How about this: how do I block messages frm certin email addresses from reaching my inbox in Mail? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Howdy, HTML is rejected by most lists I am on. How well does this demime work? It might be friendlier than rejecting. I think a better approach to 2 is to limit the quoted text to a percentage. In a very long response, it might be reasonable to have more than 20 quoted lines. I had never heard of the List-id header. Thanks. I am going to have to check the lists I am responsible for to see that they implement it. Have a good day, Ralph On Sun, 2009-06-14 at 14:06 -0600, Doug McNutt wrote: 1: Use demime to get rid of useless HTML submitted by posters. There are reasons for HTML but list postings rarely need it. Perhaps a procedure for allowing HTML in short attachments for special cases. After a few postings get mangled users would get wise to submitting in ASCII text only. 2: Limit quoted text to, say, 20 lines and enforce it by truncating in software. ... 6: Either get rid of the [G3-5] list identifier in the subject line or make it optional for each client. Encourage list users to filter based on the List-id: header --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 2:21 AM -0500 6/17/2009, Ralph Green wrote: HTML is rejected by most lists I am on. How well does this demime work? It might be friendlier than rejecting. Not very well. The problem is that html mails tend to use indent tags, instead of the normal , to denote quoting,. So when you strip the html, the text flattens - then you can't tell who wrote what. I think a better approach to 2 is to limit the quoted text to a percentage. A hard limit doesn't always work well either. Sometimes a post is just so convoluted that even after you've removed the noise, you end up with a lot of necessary context to quote. I had never heard of the List-id header. Tell your mail client to view some messages in their raw form, so you can visually review all the headers. There are some useful / interesting things there! Mailing lists aren't consistent with header use, tho. So I tend to just filter on the To header, or sometimes any header. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Previously, at 3:14 pm -0400 6/16/09, Len Gerstel wrote: Now as Len, a regular member of the G3-5 List: If you noticed, some of the most vocal supporters of bottom posting and trimming camp are the most prolific and helpful posters on the list. Wouldn't you want to suck up to them to get their help? Wouldn't you want to make it (what they see as) the easiest way for them to read the posts and help you? Len Point well made. And the wise will take - and benefit from - it. P. -- 'Eternal Vigilance Is The Price of Liberty' used to mean we watched the government- not the other way around. -- Bill Stewart --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Previously, at 3:28 pm -0400 6/16/09, Peter wrote: You shouldn't suckup to anybody. Perhaps not the best choice of words, but the meaning was clear to me! p. -- All power corrupts, but we need the electricity. -- Unknown --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 3:13 PM, Charles Leningtonmacso...@brightok.net wrote: What I don't understand, is why this thread is being discussed on this list? There is a proper list for list issues. http://groups.google.com/group/lemlists?hl=en Oh please, that list is just where banned members go to cry into a blackhole. I can't recall the last time I've ever seen a nanny post there, it's just for appearances it would seem. -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessiofluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Talking about list rules and policies is not off topic. Except that it is, it belongs on the lemlists list but since that's simply a blackhole where all complaints fall to deaf ears no one posts there... Even the nannies would rather encourage long off topic rants on a high traffic list like this rather than have their political agenda fall on deaf ears. -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:24 AM, John Musbachjohnmusba...@gmail.com wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 6:32 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessiofluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Talking about list rules and policies is not off topic. Except that it is, it belongs on the lemlists list but since that's simply a blackhole where all complaints fall to deaf ears no one posts there... Even the nannies would rather encourage long off topic rants on a high traffic list like this rather than have their political agenda fall on deaf ears. Whatever the agenda is we all agreed to the terms of use when we joined. They are Dan's lists to run run as he pleases. There are other options on the web. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessiofluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever the agenda is we all agreed to the terms of use when we joined. They are Dan's lists to run run as he pleases. There are other options on the web. Is he running it? I haven't heard a peep from him throughout the duration of this insistent beating of a dead horse... -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:31 AM, John Musbachjohnmusba...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 2:29 AM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessiofluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Whatever the agenda is we all agreed to the terms of use when we joined. They are Dan's lists to run run as he pleases. There are other options on the web. Is he running it? I haven't heard a peep from him throughout the duration of this insistent beating of a dead horse... __ Anyone has the opportunity to write to him directly to find out. You needn't ask permission. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 2:41 am, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Anyone has the opportunity to write to him directly to find out. You needn't ask permission. I did, and he answered me. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Al Poulinalfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: I did, and he answered me. ... What'd he say? -- Best Regards, John Musbach --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 2009, at 2:59 PM, John Musbach wrote: ... What'd he say? The official word from Dan Knight, the list owner is: We've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. So there is no official requirements for posting. Len Gerstel G3-5 List Nanny End of my comment as a List Nanny. Now as Len, a regular member of the G3-5 List: If you noticed, some of the most vocal supporters of bottom posting and trimming camp are the most prolific and helpful posters on the list. Wouldn't you want to suck up to them to get their help? Wouldn't you want to make it (what they see as) the easiest way for them to read the posts and help you? Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 16, 2009, at 2:59 PM, John Musbach wrote: ... What'd he say? The official word from Dan Knight, the list owner is: We've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. So there is no official requirements for posting. Len Gerstel G3-5 List Nanny End of my comment as a List Nanny. Now as Len, a regular member of the G3-5 List: If you noticed, some of the most vocal supporters of bottom posting and trimming camp are the most prolific and helpful posters on the list. Wouldn't you want to suck up to them to get their help? Wouldn't you want to make it (what they see as) the easiest way for them to read the posts and help you? Len You shouldn't suckup to anybody. Peter M --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 3:28 PM, Peterpeter1...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 16, 2009, at 3:14 PM, Len Gerstel lgers...@gmail.com wrote: On Jun 16, 2009, at 2:59 PM, John Musbach wrote: ... What'd he say? The official word from Dan Knight, the list owner is: We've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. So there is no official requirements for posting. Len Gerstel G3-5 List Nanny End of my comment as a List Nanny. Now as Len, a regular member of the G3-5 List: If you noticed, some of the most vocal supporters of bottom posting and trimming camp are the most prolific and helpful posters on the list. Wouldn't you want to suck up to them to get their help? Wouldn't you want to make it (what they see as) the easiest way for them to read the posts and help you? Len You shouldn't suckup to anybody. __ Is it a matter of sucking up? Really? Do you think people are on this list to just generate the meager petty personal aggrandizement possible for one to glean here? Jeez! Or , is it possible that in seeking help you might want your case presented in a sequential, easy to follow format that bring little impairment to communication? The less time it takes to parse a plea or even a help response the sooner the Mac will be happily running. Did you ever think of that? These lists have always been about keeping Macs running. Yes some have tried to impose their agendas. Rather unsuccessfully so. But i know of no other list that will help you get a machine of any kind operating any where near as soon as this one will help you with your Mac. And if you doubt that, experiment with other lists. If you find one tell me about it. I am always interested in good help. Adrian --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 2:59 pm, John Musbach johnmusba...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Al Poulinalfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: I did, and he answered me. ... What'd he say? Below is what Dan said. And his Rules of List Management page carries today's date. Al Poulin *** QUOTE: On Jun 16, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Dan Knight wrote: As I posted to every list on Feb. 15, 2008: After discussion with the other list managers, we've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. There is no longer anything in the list FAQs or on the netiquette page about top vs. bottom posting. I am updating the Rules of List Management page to remove mention of it as well. Dan On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: UNQUOTE --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 4:39 pm, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com wrote: Or , is it possible that in seeking help you might want your case presented in a sequential, easy to follow format that bring little impairment to communication? The less time it takes to parse a plea or even a help response the sooner the Mac will be happily running. Did you ever think of that? These lists have always been about keeping Macs running. Yes some have tried to impose their agendas. Rather unsuccessfully so. But i know of no other list that will help you get a machine of any kind operating any where near as soon as this one will help you with your Mac. And if you doubt that, experiment with other lists. If you find one tell me about it. I am always interested in good help. I subscribed to a few of the lists at themacintoshguy.com back during the time that Dan Knight used their server. I gave them up as their effectiveness dwindled, at least for me, and their email system seemed to become less reliable. In fact, I advised one of the members of their G4 list to enrole here. She did, and I am absolutely certain, without her telling me, that she is very happy with all the help she has received in the past year or so. We can quibble about some of the peculiarities of Google Groups, but Dan Knight made an excellent move by moving over. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Please take me off this list. you are filling up my email. Esther B. Blodgett JEM Accounting Services www.estherblodgett.com i...@estherblodgett.com 508-625-2217 From: Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com To: G3-5 List g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Tuesday, June 16, 2009 5:23:01 PM Subject: Re: A polite netiquette back and forth On Jun 16, 2:59 pm, John Musbach johnmusba...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 11:34 AM, Al Poulinalfred.pou...@gmail.com wrote: I did, and he answered me. ... What'd he say? Below is what Dan said. And his Rules of List Management page carries today's date. Al Poulin *** QUOTE: On Jun 16, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Dan Knight wrote: As I posted to every list on Feb. 15, 2008: After discussion with the other list managers, we've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies.. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. There is no longer anything in the list FAQs or on the netiquette page about top vs. bottom posting. I am updating the Rules of List Management page to remove mention of it as well. Dan On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 2:22 PM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail..com wrote: UNQUOTE --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Note from another list nanny] Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 16, 2009, at 2:32 PM, Esther Blodgett wrote: Please take me off this list. you are filling up my email. On Jun 16, 2009, at 9:46 AM, Dan Knight wrote: As I posted to every list on Feb. 15, 2008: After discussion with the other list managers, we've decided to end our policy of asking that list members not top post their replies. That's the default behavior of most email clients, and just reminding people of our recommendation to bottom post or interleave your replies has become more trouble than its worth. From this point forward, top posting is no longer an issue. There is no longer anything in the list FAQs or on the netiquette page about top vs. bottom posting. I am updating the Rules of List Management page to remove mention of it as well. As a brand-new subscriber (since June 15), Esther was under moderation. I approved her above message for posting in order to show what we may be doing to the majority of our list members. Esther happened to be our 1600th member, but she wants out after one day on the list. As quoted above, once again, the List Owner declared sixteen months ago that top post vs bottom post was no longer an issue for any LEM List, and Nannies were not to hassle members any more. So why are we posting about one hundred messages in this and another thread over the non-issue? What are we doing to the other 1,590 or so members, who subscribed to discuss G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs? All of us have always been free to respond or not to others' messages, free to archive or delete others' messages, free to like or dislike other members, free to suck up or not to the few hotshots, and free to hate or love list nannies. Can we get back to discussions about G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs? Hopefully we will soon gain another 1600th member, who will like the list enough to stay for a while. Fabian Fang G3-5 List Nanny --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [Note from another list nanny] Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Tue, Jun 16, 2009 at 7:08 PM, Fabian Fangf...@mac.com wrote: All of us have always been free to respond or not to others' messages, free to archive or delete others' messages, free to like or dislike other members, free to suck up or not to the few hotshots, and free to hate or love list nannies. Can we get back to discussions about G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs? Hopefully we will soon gain another 1600th member, who will like the list enough to stay for a while. __ Who started this discussion thread anyway? Oh, right, a list Nannie started it. Now i recall . . . . --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[Note from another list nanny] Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 4:08 PM -0700 6/16/2009, Fabian Fang wrote: As quoted above, once again, the List Owner declared sixteen months ago that top post vs bottom post was no longer an issue for any LEM List, and Nannies were not to hassle members any more. So why are we posting about one hundred messages in this and another thread over the non-issue? Perhaps it just isn't a non-issue for so many of us. Perhaps the sixteen months of anti-policy anarchy have increased the noise ratio of the postings to the point that many of us are getting awfully frustrated. Perhaps it has become such a big non-issue that it needs to be properly addressed and fixed. I mean, if it didn't need fixing would it have generated so many postings feelings? All of us have always been free to respond or not to others' messages, As we shall continue to be. But is the s:n trend in the direction you'all want? Can we get back to discussions about G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs? Seems to me we are. There have been quite a few other threads today, here and on the other LEM lists. Is there a problem with having such threads AND a hot button issue on the same list? - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 4:48 am, Gary D. g.dea...@web.de wrote: Why don't we just break up the group into two groups, one for top posters and one for bottom posters and than everybody will be happy. Or maybe not. (sorry) I would be happy because I neither read nor respond to top posters anyway. The exception to the preceeding is people who are obvious newbies who have never had the opportunity to learn better. The vast majority of top posters also fail to ever trim any of their quoted text. You can argue until cows get home email access about top vs. bottom posting, but failing to trim quoted text is a lazy inconsiderate poster happily wasting the time of hundreds of readers.It may not be apparent if you read lists on the Google Groups web interface, but if you have the digests or messages emailed to you, all that quoted text is a scrolling hell. Jeff Walther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:24 AM, tragt...@io.com wrote: On Jun 14, 4:48 am, Gary D. g.dea...@web.de wrote: Why don't we just break up the group into two groups, one for top posters and one for bottom posters and than everybody will be happy. Or maybe not. (sorry) I would be happy because I neither read nor respond to top posters anyway. The exception to the preceeding is people who are obvious newbies who have never had the opportunity to learn better. The vast majority of top posters also fail to ever trim any of their quoted text. You can argue until cows get home email access about top vs. bottom posting, but failing to trim quoted text is a lazy inconsiderate poster happily wasting the time of hundreds of readers. It may not be apparent if you read lists on the Google Groups web interface, but if you have the digests or messages emailed to you, all that quoted text is a scrolling hell. -- ' With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably.' Those words were uttered by Judge Aaron Satie as wisdom and warning... The first time any man's freedom is trodden on we’re all damaged. - Jean-Luc Picard, quoting Judge Aaron Satie, Star Trek: TNG episode The Drumhead - Alex Smith (K4RNT) - Murfreesboro/Nashville, Tennessee USA --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? No, the other thread was closed. This is supposed to be the constructive discussion. Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. I'm in GMail's web interface right now. It's working exactly as expected. You press the Reply button and it presents you with a window containing the quoted text. The cursor is at the top - right where it should be. Now, starting from the TOP, begin TRIMMING then inserting your replies AFTER the context. Then continue to the bottom, TRIMMING as you go. Done. Bottom posted and trimmed, using GMail's default interface. - Dan. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Dante Armok dantear...@gmail.com wrote: Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. I'm in GMail's web interface right now. It's working exactly as expected. One of the few constructive thing's I'm getting from this thread is to learn a few additional gmail tricks ... First, as to the top vs bottom aspect of gmail, yes, gmail *does* start you out with the cursor above the quoted text. If I want to add text below the quoted text I press ctrl-End in Windows or some other (annoying to me) key combination for my MacBook. OK, this may be too much work for some people, but it's an option. Second, should you wish to, it is possible to selectively quote text in gmail. Go to the Labs tab on the Settings page and scroll to about the halfway point on that entire page to find an option called *Quote selected text* by a Ryan A. If you enable it then the text you select in a message is what is quoted when you reply to that message. Granted, I keep forgetting to use this now that I've enabled it. But if I do it's easy enough to discard the reply, go back and select text, and then reply again. Also, it's an experimental feature so I suppose you can't rely on it. Doesn't matter that much to me. If it stops working then I'll find a way to cope with the loss. Again, others may not have the necessary emotional resilience. -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 12:23 PM -0400 6/15/2009, John Martz wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 12:00 PM, Dan wrote: Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. I'm in GMail's web interface right now. It's working exactly as expected. One of the few constructive thing's I'm getting from this thread is to learn a few additional gmail tricks ... First, as to the top vs bottom aspect of gmail, yes, gmail does start you out with the cursor above the quoted text. If I want to add text below the quoted text I press ctrl-End in Windows or some other (annoying to me) key combination for my MacBook. Normal text editing shortcuts work, eg: cmd-downarrow. I strongly recommend leaving the mail client set to put you at the top tho. That way you can easily TRIM as you move down thru the message. If the client starts you at the bottom, then you probably won't take the time to go back to the top and trim. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 12:35 pm, Dan dantear...@gmail.com wrote: Normal text editing shortcuts work, eg: cmd-downarrow. I strongly recommend leaving the mail client set to put you at the top tho. That way you can easily TRIM as you move down thru the message. If the client starts you at the bottom, then you probably won't take the time to go back to the top and trim. Clearly I really didn't think much about this that much before I responded. But, in hindsight I'm now thinking that anyone who finds that using a key combination to post at the bottom of a quote is too much work is probably never going to be doing something as involved as trimming text. It's just not in their DNA. Interesting how this discussion just keeps going on and on and on and on ... The Energizer Bunny of Internet discussion posts. Sort of reminds me of that Monty Python skit on the arguments shop. Yes, it is! No it isn't! Yes, it is! and so ad infinitum. Also reminds me of what happens should I be so foolish as to try to argue with a cat about where to position a litter box in the house. I actually made that mistake. Once. Hopefully never again, but I *am* only human ... -irrational john --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Dante Armok wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com mailto:shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? No, the other thread was closed. This is supposed to be the constructive discussion. What I don't understand, is why this thread is being discussed on this list? There is a proper list for list issues. http://groups.google.com/group/lemlists?hl=en --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups G3-5 List group. To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 2009, at 12:13 PM, Charles Lenington wrote: Dante Armok wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 11:33 AM, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com mailto:shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? No, the other thread was closed. This is supposed to be the constructive discussion. What I don't understand, is why this thread is being discussed on this list? There is a proper list for list issues. http://groups.google.com/group/lemlists?hl=en Why? Because a LEM List Nanny started it here instead of on the proper list, where nobody would have seen his effort to get the top posting OK ruling by the List Mom reversed. Oh what a tangled web we weave --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 2:13 PM -0500 6/15/2009, Charles Lenington wrote: Dante Armok wrote: No, the other thread was closed. This is supposed to be the constructive discussion. What I don't understand, is why this thread is being discussed on this list? There is a proper list for list issues. http://groups.google.com/group/lemlists?hl=en Sometimes it's not location location location so much as audience audience audience. The lem list lem list is all but dead... - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 10:33 am, Alex Smith (K4RNT) shadowhun...@gmail.com wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. Sorry for the inconvenience. Thus proving my point about (many) top posters being too lazy to trim quoted test. You quoted the entire message below your brief addition. As far as I can tell, you are not sorry, you're merely hoping that someone will give you a free pass. If you were sorry, you'd learn how to use your mail client and delete excess quoted text. I guarantee you, there is no email client that forces you to leave the entire previous message quoted in your new message. Jeff Walther --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
No, the *original* thread was closed by the moderator who promptly started this thread... JT Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? Also, GMail's reply function makes top posting, however annoying it may be to some people, but it is the default action, and I have not been able to figure out how to make it run otherwise. Sorry for the inconvenience. On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 10:24 AM, tragt...@io.com wrote: On Jun 14, 4:48 am, Gary D. g.dea...@web.de wrote: Why don't we just break up the group into two groups, one for top posters and one for bottom posters and than everybody will be happy. Or maybe not. (sorry) I would be happy because I neither read nor respond to top posters anyway. The exception to the preceeding is people who are obvious newbies who have never had the opportunity to learn better. The vast majority of top posters also fail to ever trim any of their quoted text. You can argue until cows get home email access about top vs. bottom posting, but failing to trim quoted text is a lazy inconsiderate poster happily wasting the time of hundreds of readers.It may not be apparent if you read lists on the Google Groups web interface, but if you have the digests or messages emailed to you, all that quoted text is a scrolling hell. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 2009, at 1:47 PM, James E. Therrault wrote: No, the *original* thread was closed by the moderator who promptly started this thread... JT Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote: I thought that this thread was closed by the moderator? The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Jim --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Jim Scottjesco...@gmail.com wrote: The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Talking about list rules and policies is not off topic. Perhaps you would like to spend the time Kyle and other Nannies have to keep the lists civilized. It is a rather thankless job. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 2009, at 3:32 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio wrote: On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 5:52 PM, Jim Scottjesco...@gmail.com wrote: The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Talking about list rules and policies is not off topic. Well, yes and no. LEM netiquette permits talking about list rules and policies in posts to the list. So, you are right. However, this list's FAQ also says discussions like this should be taken to LEMlists: Be sure to read our guide to netiquette before posting to the list. If you wish to discuss the list rules, please join LEMlists, our 'meta- list' for discussing the lists and their rules. So it looks as if the List Mom and his Nannies have yet another conflict/issue to reconcile. Perhaps you would like to spend the time Kyle and other Nannies have to keep the lists civilized. It is a rather thankless job. No, thank you. I was responsible for letters to the editor columns on a number of regional, national and international publications for 40 years and have no need to continue trying to roll rocks back up the mountain ... or to prove to myself yet again that cats (and their ilk) cannot be herded. Ever. To paraphrase, Oh what a tangled web we weave when first we practice to control. But to stay on topic in this thread, please note how I've bottom- posted, even interleaved in this instance, as well as trimmed excess line spaces and text. Members of this list who truly are interested in following topics will follow the commonsense process for doing so. This means reading left to right, top to bottom, which is how it's done everywhere else in the English-speaking world of communications where ideas are published for public consumption -- books, magazines, online web sites, newspapers, labels on packages, etc. In private communications where two or no more than a few parties are sharing ideas or discussing a subject, such as buying/selling an item or agreeing to meet at a certain place/time, etc., untrimmed top posting works very well because it is easier and quicker and acts much like a face to face (or telephonic) conversation. The last post then serves as a complete and valuable record of the transaction/discussion/ whatever. Top posting has its place, just as does bottom posting (or variants such as interleaved posting). I generally bottom post when putting my thoughts into words on this online list and others simply because it's the best way to convey and understand thoughts, ideas and concepts in written English. I generally top post in private conversations when I don't have to be concerned about people who haven't been privy to the conversations from the beginning. -- Jim --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 2009, at 5:52 PM, Jim Scott wrote: snip The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Jim Chuckle At least it's been civil, and not strayed too far. Chuck D. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/15/09 12:32 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Sometimes it's not location location location so much as audience audience audience. The lem list lem list is all but dead... - Dan. Beat me to it again...I just got home...dangit. There are more active members here...that's why I started it here. I am Blind Ccing as to nannies as I go along on some posts. -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/15/09 2:52 PM, Jim Scott jesco...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Jim Running for my castle...the villagers are coming. -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/15/09 3:32 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Perhaps you would like to spend the time Kyle and other Nannies have to keep the lists civilized. It is a rather thankless job. OMG. Did I really see that? Thank you Wallace. We delete trolls and spamers and spend an hour a day easily, just approving of rejecting spam posts etc. You guys have no idea what we go though. -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 15, 2009, at 4:40 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/15/09 2:52 PM, Jim Scott jesco...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: The moderator is a LEM list nanny and should know better than to start an off-topic discussion on this list instead of the LEM List, except that his desire to have things his way apparently is more important than list rules, or protocol, or a previous decision by the List Mom. If I were the List Mom, I'd either banish him or at least moderate his posts for this infraction if not for his insurrection. Jim Running for my castle...the villagers are coming. ... armed with torches and pitchforks. ;-) -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/15/09 4:45 PM, Amanda Ward amanda.w...@comcast.net Broadcast into the ether: ... armed with torches and pitchforks. ;-) They always are. I try to be the nicest I can be but sometimes I come off wrong. It will all be answered by Dan Knight. But suffice it to say there is one very important advantage to bottom or interleaved posting. That benefit is that most of the people that have the answers to all your questions do not like top posting. Some may reform the message so it is readable for those that get the archive, or some may do what I do. If someone top posts I just delete the message instantly. I wish there was a top posting filter in Entourage so I could just save a step and have them land in the trash. I do the same ESAECIALLY for someone who top posts 23 messages behind their 3 words. :-) -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Mon, Jun 15, 2009 at 7:43 PM, Kyle Hansenpi...@speakeasy.net wrote: On 6/15/09 3:32 PM, Wallace Adrian D'Alessio fluxstrin...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Perhaps you would like to spend the time Kyle and other Nannies have to keep the lists civilized. It is a rather thankless job. OMG. Did I really see that? Thank you Wallace. We delete trolls and spamers and spend an hour a day easily, just approving of rejecting spam posts etc. You guys have no idea what we go though. _ I can guess having been on LEM for a decade now. What I do not have to guess about is the chaos an unmoderated list falls into. Being on several. I also do not have to guess at the chaos this list can fall into. Having seen it many times. Some take a mere moments lull in moderating as a license to mouth off. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 11:30 PM, Ralph Green sfrea...@sbcglobal.net Broadcast into the ether: So this is easier for you to read...who was I responding to? Howdy, I am pretty sure Stanton does get it, and you mis-read him Kyle. It was probably an accident, but Stanton was commenting on the notion that top-posting forces your reader to work. Top posting for short messages is easier to read and that is the big advantage. Most people could configure their email program to top or bottom post. So, posting either way is about the same effort. Reading top posted replies is much easier, because the response is right there when you open the message. You don't have to scroll down to the bottom just to see what the new message says. That is such a waste of time. For long messages, it may add clarity and be worth the effort. It is nothing but make work on short messages and I would discourage it, plain and simple. Good day from someone who will try to resist furthering this thread, Ralph On Sat, 2009-06-13 at 21:18 -0700, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/13/09 9:07 PM, Stanton Mitrany stanton...@earthlink.net Broadcast into the ether: Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . Sorry if this comment was hard to decipher. stanton You sir, obviously get it. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 3:02 AM, Peter peter1...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Ok, got that trimming part. Anything else? Peter M. Not really. -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:09 AM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/14/09 3:02 AM, Peter peter1...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Ok, got that trimming part. Anything else? Peter M. Not really. -- Are we through with this topic today? Its also 8:30am and I'm testing to see if my g3-g5 contributions are going to come back to me today ... in less than 2 hours ... Bill Connelly artsite: http://mysite.verizon.net/moonstoneartstudio myspace: http://www.myspace.com/moonstoneartstudio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Gary D. wrote: Why don't we just break up the group into two groups, one for top posters and one for bottom posters and than everybody will be happy. Or maybe not. (sorry) G. everybody is never going to be happy. :-) Tech people like bottom posting, the rest of the world top posts. I get it, I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Is there a mail client that lets you choose when, say, right clicking the reply button ? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 12:07 AM -0400 6/14/2009, Stanton Mitrany wrote: Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . __ It's been my impression that those who participate in the posts on these lists: - Usually compose Subject: lines which are a reasonably informative description of the issue within the message. yes. Folx here are pretty good with that. But we do have a lot of thread drift and hijacking, so the subject line is not the beat-all end-all. - If reading any particular post in a thread, we have usually already become familiar with the discussion thus far by reading the earlier comments on an issue. Consider your audience. YOU may have a good understanding of what's in a thread, because you're the OP or it's one of the FEW you've followed. But the people providing the detailed tech support - they follow dozens or hundreds of threads in multiple venues. No way can they keep up with all those contexts. When seeking tech support, they're your target audience. The sooner you get them in context, past the noise, the sooner you get a useful answer. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 9:04 AM -0400 6/14/2009, Mark wrote: Tech people like bottom posting, the rest of the world top posts. No, not the rest of the world. Top posting is fine for light conversational chatting, where context is relatively unimportant. All other threads should be bottom posted and trimmed. Another issue with top posting is that is *discourages* trimming. That means messages grow and grow, to contain a lot of useless headers and other unnecessary drivel. That's ok, maybe, if ALL your participants have high speed network connections. But it screws the ones that pay per minute or per KB. I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Why switch back and forth at all? Keep in mind one basic rule: Every email message should have more signal than noise. Always start at the top, then insert your new content and trim as you go down. Finish at the bottom of the message, after removing the unnecessary quoted sig lines and such. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Dan wrote: I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Why switch back and forth at all? - Dan. It confuses people. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 10:16 AM -0400 6/14/2009, Mark wrote: Dan wrote: I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Why switch back and forth at all? It confuses people. I meant why switch the settings in your email client at all? Just keep them as-is and process every email from the top down. That works for both top and bottom posting. The idea that the email client has to place your insertion point for you that's Bad. It means you're NOT going over the message. You're just adding content without trimming. Your resulting message will ALWAYS have more noise than signal. Very bad and very impolite, regardless of top or bottom posting. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 2009, at 6:04 AM, Mark wrote: Gary D. wrote: Why don't we just break up the group into two groups, one for top posters and one for bottom posters and than everybody will be happy. Or maybe not. (sorry) G. everybody is never going to be happy. :-) Tech people like bottom posting, the rest of the world top posts. I get it, I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Is there a mail client that lets you choose when, say, right clicking the reply button ? Is everyone just mindlessly shackled to their mail app defaults? In Mail it is a two-click process to bottom post: click reply click above your sig. Start typing Done. -- Bruce Johnson Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai, PhD --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 2009, at 12:07 AM, Stanton Mitrany wrote: Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . __ It's been my impression that those who participate in the posts on these lists: - Usually compose Subject: lines which are a reasonably informative description of the issue within the message. BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter,Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.¨ --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Ralph, I think that you hit the nail squarely on the head. This thread is the result of the single action of the one that started it that succeeded irrelevant comments he made in a previous thread. Regarding my experience, top posting was the practice in every commercial/industrial enviroment that I worked in. Back in those days it was generally labeled of reply with history. The practice allowed anyone who came in late on an issue to have the ability to simply scroll down in order to become familiar with the entire issue. Now, I do bottom post here simply because it is encouraged to trim history thus it does work. I agree with all that you say but resistance might be futile. G JT Ralph Green wrote: Howdy, I am pretty sure Stanton does get it, and you mis-read him Kyle. It was probably an accident, but Stanton was commenting on the notion that top-posting forces your reader to work. Top posting for short messages is easier to read and that is the big advantage. Most people could configure their email program to top or bottom post. So, posting either way is about the same effort. Reading top posted replies is much easier, because the response is right there when you open the message. You don't have to scroll down to the bottom just to see what the new message says. That is such a waste of time. For long messages, it may add clarity and be worth the effort. It is nothing but make work on short messages and I would discourage it, plain and simple. Good day from someone who will try to resist furthering this thread, Ralph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
everybody is never going to be happy. :-) Tech people like bottom posting, the rest of the world top posts. I get it, I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Is there a mail client that lets you choose when, say, right clicking the reply button ? In Eudora 6.2.4 select what you want to include in the reply and hold the Shift key down while choosing Reply Quoting Section from the Message Menu. I do not know if this feature is available in other Mail Clients. But in a perfect world it would be. HTH ErnieG --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 2009, at 12:57 PM, Ernest L. Gunerius wrote: everybody is never going to be happy. :-) Tech people like bottom posting, the rest of the world top posts. I get it, I don't mind switching back forth but in Thunderbird it is a 4 click process to switch. Is there a mail client that lets you choose when, say, right clicking the reply button ? In Eudora 6.2.4 select what you want to include in the reply and hold the Shift key down while choosing Reply Quoting Section from the Message Menu. In Apple's Mail there is a preference under Composing for Responding that gives you the options for When Quoting Text in Replies or Forwards to either: Include all the original message or Include selected text, if any, otherwise include all Len --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]A polite netiquette back and forth
I'll follow whatever type of posting the message seems to generate... top, bottom, interspersed... fine with me. Just, please folks, trim some of the older stuff out of the message when the thread goes on for days. Just my $.02... California sales tax not included! Amanda The light at the end of the tunnel... the headlight of the oncoming train! On Jun 14, 2009, at 3:09 AM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/14/09 3:02 AM, Peter peter1...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Ok, got that trimming part. Anything else? Peter M. Not really. -- Kyle H. Hansen It's Always darkest... right before it gets totally black. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Seriously, different people communicate differently. I don't whine and complain when having a verbal conversation and someone speaks to me from my left side as opposed to 20 degrees to the right facing forward from me. The intolerance here is not surprising, but never fails to disappoint, and I get really sick of weeding through this asinine debate over and over again as to why no one should be tolerant of others. Oh, but hey, so long as everyone thinks, acts and lives according to your will, right? Yes, I'm sure that someone has a perfect example as illustrated in episode 27, part 1, scene 13, line 5 n the background in the lower left corner on some filmed computer screen in Star Trek:The next Generation, but come on; WTF? You know what? If it's such a huge deal, why don't you just write your friggin senator and have them write a law to strike down this egregious and abhorrent behavior? That anyone would have so much time to to spend on such a non-issue, or have such entrenched feelings over something so asinine speaks volumes of their the life and exactly how narrow their perspective is. How about an on topic discussion for once? How about this: how do I block messages frm certin email addresses from reaching my inbox in Mail? A fanatic is someone who won't change his mind, and won't change the subject Winston Churchill. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 14, 2009, at 1:50 PM, Bill Connelly wrote: RE: Netiquette I've decided out of respect for the Gurus of this site, Much. I will bottom post after trimming what I'm not responding to ... Will do. To the best of my abilities and, sometimes, in opposition to, my current mood ... My mood is always sunny. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.¨ --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 6:54 AM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: No, not the rest of the world. Top posting is fine for light conversational chatting, where context is relatively unimportant. All other threads should be bottom posted and trimmed. True even in my workplaces. Only an emergency would be top posted. Same when I worked at Apple (the mothership). Another issue with top posting is that is *discourages* trimming. That means messages grow and grow, to contain a lot of useless headers and other unnecessary drivel. That's ok, maybe, if ALL your participants have high speed network connections. But it screws the ones that pay per minute or per KB. Perfect point. Some guy in Wyoming has to pay for all that noise you throw at them unnecessarily. These lists are to help people, not cause them to go over their bandwidth cap and leave. Why switch back and forth at all? Keep in mind one basic rule: Every email message should have more signal than noise. - Dan. Exactly. Interleaved (as above) or bottom posting is the way to go. I work closely with the North Face world HQ, Cost Plus World Market world HQ, Apple etcthey all have their preferred posting methods in the employee manuals (which I have to read and sign of on even as a contractor). And bottom posting or interleaved is what they insist upon. Your workplace may be different, but with Apple especially, and I am saying this NOT at the list members, at Apple if you top post (unless it's an emergency) they consider you an idiot. It's the younger twitterrers that are trying to change the rules. This all started with the Instant Messaging that teens use most. I will admit that I IM when I am at the store and forgot what my wife asked me to pick up as I was walking out the door with the list and have forgotten. What is killing it for us the internet users in general...not the list) is what are you doing now...? I am getting coffee, are you gona come over later ...maybe...this girl is hot...check out the pic I just sent. etc. Because this sucks bandwidth and is relatively irrelevant. Very well put Dan. And I say that not just because you agree with me...because you have valid points. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 10:40 AM, Brian hellcat...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: You know what? If it's such a huge deal, why don't you just write your friggin senator and have them write a law to strike down this egregious and abhorrent behavior? That anyone would have so much time to to spend on such a non-issue, or have such entrenched feelings over something so asinine speaks volumes of their the life and exactly how narrow their perspective is. That is happening as you typed that. And the Senator is the list Owner Dan Knight. Look at all the reasons it is bad to top post. Read. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 1:06 PM, Doug McNutt dougl...@macnauchtan.com Broadcast into the ether: In short - muck with the list software to get what you want without repetitive requests to please stop top posting. Google won't let us. They have no settings for those features. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
At 2:06 PM -0600 6/14/2009, Doug McNutt wrote: No, not the rest of the world. Top posting is fine for light conversational chatting, where context is relatively unimportant. All other threads should be bottom posted and trimmed. True even in my workplaces. Only an emergency would be top posted. Same when I worked at Apple (the mothership). There was a time - before e-mail and even before messaging to another colleague on the same computer - when mail was in the form of a piece of paper inside of an envelope which might well be one of those reusable ones with the holes to show content. The proper procedure was to write your message on a letter head, place it ON TOP of a photocopy of the letter you were responding to and then send it off. Interoffice linear discussion packets! I remember those! Only ONE person had the manilla package at a time, tho (unlike emails, where it's 1:many), so the progression was easy to follow. Comments were done as post-it notes covering the original text, or just scribbling in the margins. Sometimes in various colors... Woe to the poor schlub that sneezed and blew the post-its off. 2: Limit quoted text to, say, 20 lines and enforce it by truncating in software. Blind truncation destroys context. Some things just can't be sung well in only one verse. 3: Provide a link to the message being replied to that can be used by any reader who needs to follow the thread more closely. Time-wasting: The reader needs to see only the current context, not all of the disposed context also. Money-wasting: The bandwidth-limited reader will have to sign back on to fetch that unnecessary context. 4: Stop wrapping text to an arbitrary line length. God bless AOL and the heck it hath wrought, that lingers today. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 2:07 PM, Dan dantear...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: God bless AOL and the heck it hath wrought, that lingers today. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth Not to mention that 97% of online crime against children is through AOL. That is why I will never use any of their services...ever. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 13, 2009, at 7:21 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on mailing lists and in personal e-mail I never used top posting till I was forced to go to Outlook at work. Although I find it annoying I don't mind it so much at work since the replies are basic information. However on a discussion list I find top posting to be a real pain. Since I am not a computer expert it is almost impossible for me to make sense of some of the discussion when parts jump from top to bottom posting. So be kind to those of us you are just trying to stay in the loop and use bottom posting on discussion lists. Linda in Ohio --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Hmmm, I wonder if Dan Knight will adjust or clarify the rules for all of lowendmac? Somewhere, I read that there was a roundtable about this yesterday. Al Poulin --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/14/09 5:23 PM, Al Poulin alfred.pou...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: Hmmm, I wonder if Dan Knight will adjust or clarify the rules for all of lowendmac? Somewhere, I read that there was a roundtable about this yesterday. Al Poulin It's his call. But as I said. A lot most of us consider top posting rude. I can answer all your questions, but Bruce, Clark, Dan, Kris and a host of others with vast experience get to them first. And besides. If someone top posts I just delete it and move on. It is their option to top post and it is my option to delete. -- === Kyle H. Hansen Apple Certified Desktop Technician (ACDT) Apple Certified Portable Technician (ACPT) Apple Certified System Administrator (ACSA) MCSE Certified Technician CCIE, CCNA, CCSP Certified Technician k...@hansen-technical.com www.hansen-technical.com === --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
A polite netiquette back and forth
I will even start the new thread so that we can calmly discuss the issue. I am of the opinion that I don't need to respond to a mailing list (like this one) while at work or out for dinner or whatever. Nothing has to be answered instantly on a list like this. In fact a lot of people subscribe to this via Digest and won't get it until tomorrow anyway. So what I do is quickly scan for EMERGENCY messages that can't wait a couple of hours and then answer them. So that involves a couple more minutes of my time to format the return email. Be it a Blackberry or an iPhone bottom posting is possible...it is just not the default. Taken directly from Wikipedia: Top-posting is a natural consequence of the behavior of the reply function in most e-mail readers, such as Microsoft Outlook, Outlook Express, Gmail, and others. Partially because of Microsoft's influence, top-posting is very common on mailing lists and in personal e-mail.[7][8][9][10] Objections to top-posting on newsgroups, as a rule, seem to come from persons who first went online in the earlier days of Usenet So if we as Mac users want to adopt Microsoft's way then ok...I guess. Early internet adopters like myself do not like top posting. It makes a thread difficult to follow. Even more trimming the text to just the relevant information is of great benefit. Especially to people with mobile devices. This forces us to download the whole email and fumble through it to figure out what people are talking about. Here are a couple of links that were just googled by me and were first page hits using the words bottom posting as the search words: http://www.ubuntu.com/support/community/mailinglists/etiquette#head-d58f0bbc f56aca2802844f797a8cd4805877fab6 http://www.dearcupertino.com/2008/12/top-posting-and-bottom-posting.html Having just attended the WWDC here in SF that was a huge outrage. It will be an option if not the default on the iPhone very soon. All the people that I spoke with about things like widgets and iPhone apps etc eventually got around how they HATE the fact that the iPhone top posts by default. Because it is considered impolite, in forums like this anyway. Your workplace may prefer top posting. That's great. Whatever. We here at LEM prefer bottom posting. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? On Jun 13, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/13/09 4:21 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net Broadcast into the ether: And page 2 of why bottom posting is considered the polite way to handle things, especially in a back and forth forum: Top-posting forces your reader to work A top-posted message is easy to write; since, it doesn't require the writer to edit any of the original message. As a consequence, a top-posted message makes the message reader do the work of understanding what was said. Anyone new to a top-posted conversation has to read a message unnaturally from bottom to top. A reader may have to skip over the new top-posted comment at the top of the message and scroll down to the bottom of the message to see the context for the comment, then scroll back up, message by message, to read the added comments in an unnatural bottom-to-top reverse order. No editing has been done by the top-posting writers; so, each message contains redundant signatures and irrelevant material. And a few more links: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html http://www.mail-archive.com/bri...@coollist.com/msg00178.html Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Previously, at 8:28 pm -0500 6/13/09, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? | | | | | | | V Because some PEOPLE insist on making the same mistake over and over? -- Reaganomics proved what every farmer knows: The only thing that trickles down is fertilizer! -- unattributed --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Not a mistake On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:33 PM, Paul Stamsen wrote: Previously, at 8:28 pm -0500 6/13/09, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? | | | | | | | V Because some PEOPLE insist on making the same mistake over and over? -- Reaganomics proved what every farmer knows: The only thing that trickles down is fertilizer! -- unattributed --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter,Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. On Jun 13, 2009, at 9:28 PM, Brian wrote: OH MY GOD. WHAT THE CRAP?? Why the hell is this asinine issue being debated AGAIN? On Jun 13, 2009, at 6:32 PM, Kyle Hansen wrote: On 6/13/09 4:21 PM, Kyle Hansen pi...@speakeasy.net Broadcast into the ether: And page 2 of why bottom posting is considered the polite way to handle things, especially in a back and forth forum: Top-posting forces your reader to work A top-posted message is easy to write; since, it doesn't require the writer to edit any of the original message. As a consequence, a top-posted message makes the message reader do the work of understanding what was said. Anyone new to a top-posted conversation has to read a message unnaturally from bottom to top. A reader may have to skip over the new top-posted comment at the top of the message and scroll down to the bottom of the message to see the context for the comment, then scroll back up, message by message, to read the added comments in an unnatural bottom-to-top reverse order. No editing has been done by the top-posting writers; so, each message contains redundant signatures and irrelevant material. And a few more links: http://www.caliburn.nl/topposting.html http://mailformat.dan.info/quoting/bottom-posting.html http://www.mail-archive.com/bri...@coollist.com/msg00178.html Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com If there are no dogs in Heaven, when I die I want to go where they went.¨ --Will Rogers extreme positive = (ybya2) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 6:40 PM, John Callahan jcalla...@stny.rr.com Broadcast into the ether: BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter,Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. He he. At WWDC they say Twitter will be gone in less than a year. And the reason was that as a nanny I get blasted over and over again weekly about why people are still top posting, and some people had some questions offlist. So I guess there is no being polite allowed here either. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:40 PM, John Callahan wrote: BINGO!! Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter, Twitter. Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. Oh, that was delicious! :-) Jeff --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: [G3-5]A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 8:21 PM, Kyle Hansen at pi...@speakeasy.net wrote: Even more trimming the text to just the relevant information is of great benefit. I think trimming before replying any e-mail is a fundamental lesson. Non-trimming should be used only in special cases. I subscribe two another high-traffic mailing lists that do permit HTML, attachments and whose users are not used to trim before replying. Sometimes, mainly in long threads, I feel like in an internet hell... -- MaGioZal. http://magiozal.blogspot.com/ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 8:18 PM, MacGuy macgu...@gmail.com Broadcast into the ether: On Jun 13, 2009, at 8:13 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: Dingbat!! Plain text, plain text, plain text, plain text. Oh, that was delicious! :-) Jeff LMFAO. I was not going to say it. Kyle Hansen -- This is the way the world ends...not with a bang, but a twitter. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . __ It's been my impression that those who participate in the posts on these lists: - Usually compose Subject: lines which are a reasonably informative description of the issue within the message. - If reading any particular post in a thread, we have usually already become familiar with the discussion thus far by reading the earlier comments on an issue. Few of us, I imagine, choose to come into an intriguing subject, judged by the Subject: line, anywhere but in the beginning. Alternately, some posters may enter their reading at the first response from one of those among us who historically have seemed to be the best informed among us. These members, bless them all, usually encapsulate the subject of the discussion to that point succinctly, and trim off the balance. - Are most often surgical in removing extraneous earlier material from prior postings on the thread. Since the observations above, I believe, are generally valid, I personally find no difficulty following top postings. Since there's usually little below their addition aside from a modest encapsulation of what in the prior postings in the thread it is on which they wish to amplify, the need to read back and forth from the bottom-up to follow a top-posted addition to a conversation with which our readers are already familiar from prior postings on a thread is moot. Sorry if this comment was hard to decipher. stanton --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: A polite netiquette back and forth
On 6/13/09 9:07 PM, Stanton Mitrany stanton...@earthlink.net Broadcast into the ether: Top-posting forces your reader to work . . . Sorry if this comment was hard to decipher. stanton You sir, obviously get it. -- The authorities require that a person must be missing for more than 48 hours before filing a report. If they own a Jeep Wrangler don't bother calling. O|||O Kyle H. Hansen --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
