Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On Jul 2, 6:41 pm, Dan wrote: > Good catch, thanks! Wow, this thread caught on. Very useful overview, though kind of discouraging to think one would/will have to change all one's HDs I have four. I have other questions, but I think they'll go better in a separate thread. Thanks, Cliff -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
At 3:35 PM -0700 7/2/2011, Clark Martin wrote: > Rosetta requires apps that use use at least a G3 processor & Cocoa. Rosetta supports Carbon applications. This is an API that supports both OS9 and OS X. That is why AppleWorks still runs under Snow Leopard. Good catch, thanks! Rosetta does not support the pre-Carbon environments. And the later vers of Rosetta apparently supported some G4 and Altivec instructions (but not the G5 specific ones). - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On Jul 2, 2011, at 1:39 PM, Dan wrote: > Just to clarify a bit... > > At 3:10 PM -0500 7/2/2011, Kris Tilford wrote: >> >> Tiger 10.4 - Two separate versions: one pure PPC System, one pure Intel >> System. Some of the software is "universal" (meaning contains both PPC & >> Intel code which will work on both architectures, but is also much larger >> in size). > > The ppc-to-x86 code translator, Rosetta, is installed by default in x86 > Tiger, giving it the ability to run ppc-only (non Universal) apps. > > Rosetta requires apps that use use at least a G3 processor & Cocoa. > > Rosetta does NOT support: > * Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9 (that was Classic's job). Not exactly true. Rosetta supports Carbon applications. This is an API that supports both OS9 and OS X. That is why AppleWorks still runs under Snow Leopard. Clark Martin Redwood City, CA, USA Macintosh / Internet Consulting "I'm a designated driver on the Information Super Highway" -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
Just to clarify a bit... At 3:10 PM -0500 7/2/2011, Kris Tilford wrote: Tiger 10.4 - Two separate versions: one pure PPC System, one pure Intel System. Some of the software is "universal" (meaning contains both PPC & Intel code which will work on both architectures, but is also much larger in size). The ppc-to-x86 code translator, Rosetta, is installed by default in x86 Tiger, giving it the ability to run ppc-only (non Universal) apps. Rosetta requires apps that use use at least a G3 processor & Cocoa. Rosetta does NOT support: * Applications built for Mac OS 8 or 9 (that was Classic's job). * Code written specifically for AltiVec * Code that inserts preferences in the System Preferences pane * Applications that require a G4 or G5 processor (no processor specific code). * Applications that depend on one or more kernel extensions * Kernel extensions * Bundled Java applications or Java applications with JNI libraries. Leopard 10.5 Same Rosetta. 32-bit only. No. The x86 Leopard build includes both a 32-bit and a 64-bit kernel. It can only boot into the 64-bit kernel, however, if the hardware supports it (Core 2 or better) and all the kernel extensions are 64-bit. Above the kernel, both 64-bit and 32-bit frameworks and apps can run. "mixed mode". Snow Leopard 10.6 Snow Leopard contains many more 64-bit components, but is not yet 64-bit pure. Rosetta is now an optional install. Lion 10.7 - Intel-only 64-bit-only architecture. The kernel and all Apple-supplied kernel extensions are 64-bit. Frameworks and apps can run in either 32-bit or 64-bit mode. Rosetta won't run, so no more ppc apps. Beyond Jobs' deep seated desire to fark those of us who are no longer good Revenue Units to Apple, this does make some sense -- Lion is 64-bit and G3 is 32-bit. - Dan. -- - Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On Jul 2, 2011, at 2:48 PM, Tina K. wrote: Thank you for that tidbit of information, I was Intel-less until just this year so my knowledge regarding the Intel transition is limited. Here's the deal: Tiger 10.4 - Two separate versions: one pure PPC System, one pure Intel System. Some of the software is "universal" (meaning contains both PPC & Intel code which will work on both architectures, but is also much larger in size). Leopard 10.5 - One single universal System only under which all software runs on both PPC & Intel Macs. 32-bit only. This is the transitional System from PPC architecture to Intel architecture. A Leopard 10.5 HD with GUID partition format can boot both PPC & Intel Macs manufactured prior to Snow Leopard 10.6 release. Normally PPC Macs use Apple partition format HDs, while Intel Macs use GUID partition format HDs. GUID HDs can boot on both PPC & Intel Macs under Leopard 10.5, but normally a PPC HD would be Apple partition format. Snow Leopard 10.6 - Intel-only hybrid kernel that works with either 32- bit or 64-bit applications. This is the transitional System from 32- bit applications to 64-bit applications. Lion 10.7 - Intel-only 64-bit-only architecture. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On 2011/07/01 19:15, cubpa...@aol.com wrote: FYI, the earlier Intel Macs used a different version of Tiger than did the PPC Macs. I do not believe that Intel Macs are able to run OS9. Thank you for that tidbit of information, I was Intel-less until just this year so my knowledge regarding the Intel transition is limited. Tina -- iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11 PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8 Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
Hi Tina, FYI, the earlier Intel Macs used a different version of Tiger than did the PPC Macs. I do not believe that Intel Macs are able to run OS9. -Original Message- From: Tina K. To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com Sent: Fri, Jul 1, 2011 6:33 am Subject: Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps On 2011/06/25 13:32, Cliff Rediger wrote: > Also, what about Classic apps. ? >There's one I just can't live without, viz. INCONTROL >no ToDo/Calendar app like it anywhere that I can find. I'm pretty sure that Classic support was dropped with 10.5 Leopard so if you can't live without it you would need to get an Intel Mac that originally shipped with 10.4 Tiger. Assuming that those Intel machines were able to run Classic that is. Tina -- iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11 PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8 Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
This has been part of the genius of Apple. 68K under PPC; Classic under OS X. Sad to see this all go. I'm not too cheap to buy a new machine. Have way more invested in older ones and multiple external boot drives, which provide redundancy and a lot more functionality. Always amazes me with "typical" consumer that has one PC and only one hard-drive partition. In a pinch, I've gone back to a Powerbook 180 and was able to do word processing well Someone who went Rip Van Winkle after the Mac Quadra or LCII and woke up today to the latest Mac would understand it all. That's its appeal to many of us. On Jul 1, 2011, at 10:25 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote: ..anyone remember the happy days when Mac OS finally reached PPC code throughout, the end of the line for 68k systems? That was 8.6... -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On Jul 1, 2011, at 4:29 AM, Matevž Markovič wrote: > Rosetta (along with Apple Java) will face the same fate in Lion. Well, in the case of Java, it's more like "Finally!! We can use a stock Java stack like the rest of the world!!" Rosetta has been publicly on the chopping block pretty much since it's release...it was never intended to be anything but a transitional thing...anyone remember the happy days when Mac OS finally reached PPC code throughout, the end of the line for 68k systems? That was 8.6... -- Bruce -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
Hy! Support for the Blue Box environment (alas, classic mode in OS X) was abandoned on Intel versions of OS X. Rosetta (along with Apple Java) will face the same fate in Lion. What about having the old Mac Mini and the new one at the same time? Matevž -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On 2011/06/25 13:32, Cliff Rediger wrote: Also, what about Classic apps. ? There's one I just can't live without, viz. INCONTROL no ToDo/Calendar app like it anywhere that I can find. I'm pretty sure that Classic support was dropped with 10.5 Leopard so if you can't live without it you would need to get an Intel Mac that originally shipped with 10.4 Tiger. Assuming that those Intel machines were able to run Classic that is. Tina -- iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11 PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8 Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.6 -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Re: Intel Mac & PPC apps
On 6/25/11 3:32 PM, Cliff Rediger wrote: Well, I'm seriously considering upgrading from my Mini G4 to an Intel Mini. A quick google suggests that with Rosetta or other such utilities one can effortlessly run PPC apps in Snow Leopard on an Intel cpu. Also, what about Classic apps. ? There's one I just can't live without, viz. INCONTROL no ToDo/Calendar app like it anywhere that I can find. Comments and experience appreciated. Cliff It's looking like Lion & Rosetta aren't going to work together, however. -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
Intel Mac & PPC apps
Well, I'm seriously considering upgrading from my Mini G4 to an Intel Mini. A quick google suggests that with Rosetta or other such utilities one can effortlessly run PPC apps in Snow Leopard on an Intel cpu. Also, what about Classic apps. ? There's one I just can't live without, viz. INCONTROL no ToDo/Calendar app like it anywhere that I can find. Comments and experience appreciated. Cliff Love's Point Blog: http://4lovespoint.wordpress.com/ (new post 5/31/11) Peace-Gardens.us:http://peace-gardens.us/ (updated regularly) Not-Two-Is-Peace: http://www.ispeace723.org/ -- You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
