Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Sunday, 9th of August 2009, Dennis Myhand wrote: Mac User #330250 wrote: Gentoo is the only Linux I know of that has a 64-bit PowerPC port. I'm a bit confused as to your reason for wanting to do this. You want to run a 64 bit *nix system on a G-5. I thought that was what OS X was. I thought that was why Apple built OS X around the Mach kernel. Mac OS X 10.4 has a 64-bit kernel to allow access to more than 4 GB of RAM, Mac OS X 10.5 has some more 64-bit system software but the majority of the operating systems, especially the applications, are 32-bit. 32-bit is not a problem. The G4 was a pure 32-bit processor. The G5 is a 64-bit processor that can run 32-bit G4 code natively. So, for the G5 it doesn't matter if you through 64-bit or 32-bit code at it, it just runs it. The only problem is that a 32-bit application will always be limited to 4 GB addressable memory. So, imagine a Photoshop that has the power to use all the 16 GB RAM that the Late 2005 G5 can have. Wouldn't that be great? So, openSUSE is a Linux operating system, that has a PowerPC port with a 64-bit kernel for the G5 and a 32-bit userland. Just like Mac OS X. Gentoo Linux on the other hand leaves you with the choice to set up a system with a 64-bit kernel and either a 32-bit or a 64-bit userland. With all its advantages and disadvantages. The advantage of a 64-bit userland is clear: each program and application, like GIMP or even server stuff like MySQL and Apache, can use the whole RAM. The disadvantage: some applications are not 64-bit tested and break, or don't compile at all. I have been using 10.4.11 for about a year now, and have used Linux on Intel/AMD PCs since 1998, and the difference between Linux and OS X is that Apple pays their programmers more. A LOT MORE. Just as I said, OS X is nice. I like it. But I'm used to the Gentoo way, meaning, that you *have to* dig deep into the system, compile everything yourself and configure all the applications by hand. When you first set up a system, this is hard work, but once it's running, your lucky to have had the choice for all what there is running. It's the opposite to Mac OS X, or even Ubuntu/Kubuntu/Xubuntu, YDL and openSUSE. Their approach is: just install and be going. However, if you are truly determined to do this thing, your best hope is on a PPC Linux forum where there are people who have successfully done what you seek to do. But (and ymmv) I have run Linux, and I have run OS X, and I much prefer OS X for fit, finish, and functionality. Peace, Dennis Year. I wanted to know if one of you ever did it, or if I'm the only crazy guy around. Thanks for the answers. Cheers, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Monday, 10th of August 2009, Ralph Green wrote: I don't think this is something very many users will be interested in and I would not recommend it for many people. Definitely. Not everyone will be interested in such a procedure. OSX is prettier than any Linux setup I have seen. OSX has alway had the characteristic that the things it does well are very well done and easy to use and the things it does poorly are very hard to figure out and use. I fully agree. What Mac OS X can do it does in a very easy and intuitive way. What it can't do - well, that's much harder to manage than on a Linux system. Linux has better overall usability for me because Apple does not always fully implement utilities. For example, samba on my current Mac does not work nearly as well as Linux from the same time frame. Linux is much easier to install most utilities on. The major distros have package managers(apt-get, yum, emerge, etc) that each make it a snap to install, say Postgresql or Mysql, or many other utilities not from Apple. On OSX, if a drag and drop installer is available, it will probably work OK, but you have to go find it somewhere and sometimes they are not available. Have you tried macports and fink yet? http://www.macports.org/ http://www.finkproject.org/ The license on Linux is much better and I always feel more comfortable using software with user friendly licenses. I am always frustrated when it is time to upgrade OSX because I have to stop and read and study multiple lengthy license agreements to see what affect they will have on me. I know most people don't do that, but I am picky about the legal agreements I enter into. On Linux, software uses several license that I have studied beforehand and they are not regularly removing my rights with new versions of the license, like Apple does. And finally, running Linux is a good idea, just because it is there. I run a bunch of operating systems here at home. My main one is Linux, but I use OSX and it has it's place. Just trying and learning about them has it's own value. I didn't read Apples Mac OS X license at all. In Austria (where I am from) this license is in parts illegal, because according to the law in my country a customer has to be informed of this license in the store, before he buys the product. Since Apple doesn't print the whole license on the back of the Mac OS X DVD box it is not valid. At least in some parts, but I don't know which ones. I don't have Linux running on a current Mac. I last used it regularly on a 700 MHz iMac. I asked on my local Linux mailing list and I'll report back to Andreas what I find. I am pretty sure our Vice President runs his main machine as Linux on a dual G5, but I don't know if he uses 32 or 64 bit Linux. He uses plain old Debian. I'm sure it is a 32-bit userland. The iMac is a G4, so a 32-bit kernel. I'm unsure it Debian features a 64-bit userland for the G5... Have a good day, Ralph Thanks. I will consult the Gentoo Linux forum. I was just asking about Linux experiences in general and if anyone has had the same thought, to run a true 64-bit system on a 64-bit processor. Have also a nice day, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Aug 9, 2009, at 3:39 PM, Kris Tilford wrote: The problem with OS X on a G5 is the fact that Apple is abandoning support for the PPC Macs, so there won't be any more OS X updates. The recent lack of support for Java 1.6 for the PPC Macs is already made newer Java programming fail to run on PPC Macs. But OS X is Unix...install the latest Java in /opt/java or someplace, change your JAVA_HOME env var and you're golden. You'll have to run some java apps the hard way, via starting them in Terminal, but they'll work otherwise. -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Aug 10, 2009, at 9:25 AM, Mac User #330250 wrote: Have a good day, Ralph Thanks. I will consult the Gentoo Linux forum. I was just asking about Linux experiences in general and if anyone has had the same thought, to run a true 64-bit system on a 64-bit processor. My feelings can be summed up in this list of humorous Linux Demotivational Posters :-) http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/ -- Bruce Johnson University of Arizona College of Pharmacy Information Technology Group Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Monday, 10th of August 2009, Bruce Johnson wrote: My feelings can be summed up in this list of humorous Linux Demotivational Posters :-) http://www.arouse.net/despair-linux/ New ironic pictures for Linux geeks. Great! Thanks, Andreas aka Mac User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Linux on Power Mac G5?
Hello! I've heard someone say I'm a crazy guy. I bought myself Power Mac G5 for the sole purpose of running Linux on it. Crazy? My friend said you buy a Mac because you want to run Mac OS X! and not Linux... True, Linux runs on a new €250 PC system at the same speed it does on a Power Mac G5 Late 2005 with its Dual Core 2.0 GHz 970MP processor for €700 (on eBay, half a year ago). But, I love the idea of a PowerPC processor working inside of a beautiful alluminium case. And the way Apple made the case is the greatest I've ever seen. So, I was thinking... ANYONE HERE EVER TRIED LINUX on a Power Mac G5? Because I've tried now for some time but I don't get it right somehow. The Kernel doesn't boot. I haven't found the problem yet. Mac OS 10.4.11 works without errors. I've now upgraded to Mac OS X 10.5.8 and no problems at all. Works very smoothly. Nice OS! I've been running Linux for ages now, startet of on PC hardware (Pentium @ 90 MHz, before the Millenium) and got caught by the Gentoo way of running - well, compiling - Linux and all the open source applications. On my previous system, a Power Mac G4 MDD Dual 1GHz, Gentoo Linux didn't make any problem at all. Worked right away. Now on the G5 Dual Core, the 2008.0 LiveCD starts normal from CD-ROM, but when I compile a kernel it doesn't boot. It stops right at the start, where it detects the two cores and say something about core99_something. I'm still trying, but though someone here might know something. Cheers, Andreas aka Linux User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Sunday, 9th of August 2009, Alex Smith (K4RNT) wrote: Perhaps you can try openSUSE or Yellow Dog Linux. They both have very frequently used PowerPC ports that are very reliable and have large software repositories. www.terrasoftsolutions.com www.opensuse.org I haven't used either system on a PPC personally, but I've heard good things about all of the above. Yes, I've downloaded OpenSUSE too. YDL I've never tried before. I installed OpenSUSE (the x86 version) on my mothers laptop and she's very happy with it. I know OpenSUSE and have also tried the PowerPC version on my Power Mac G4 MDD once. I'm not happy with the fact that the PowerPC version of OpenSUSE is a 32-bit distribution. Okay, it does matter only when an application needs more than 4 GB of RAM, allright. But my G5 has 16 GB RAM inside and I'm now trying to get a working 64-bit Linux if only the kernel would run! Gentoo is the only Linux I know of that has a 64-bit PowerPC port. Thanks for the quick responce! Cheers, Andreas aka Linux User #330250 --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
Mac User #330250 wrote: Yes, I've downloaded OpenSUSE too. YDL I've never tried before. I installed OpenSUSE (the x86 version) on my mothers laptop and she's very happy with it. I know OpenSUSE and have also tried the PowerPC version on my Power Mac G4 MDD once. I'm not happy with the fact that the PowerPC version of OpenSUSE is a 32-bit distribution. Okay, it does matter only when an application needs more than 4 GB of RAM, allright. But my G5 has 16 GB RAM inside and I'm now trying to get a working 64-bit Linux if only the kernel would run! Gentoo is the only Linux I know of that has a 64-bit PowerPC port. I'm a bit confused as to your reason for wanting to do this. You want to run a 64 bit *nix system on a G-5. I thought that was what OS X was. I thought that was why Apple built OS X around the Mach kernel. I have been using 10.4.11 for about a year now, and have used Linux on Intel/AMD PCs since 1998, and the difference between Linux and OS X is that Apple pays their programmers more. A LOT MORE. However, if you are truly determined to do this thing, your best hope is on a PPC Linux forum where there are people who have successfully done what you seek to do. But (and ymmv) I have run Linux, and I have run OS X, and I much prefer OS X for fit, finish, and functionality. Peace, Dennis --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Aug 9, 2009, at 4:21 PM, Dennis Myhand wrote: I'm a bit confused as to your reason for wanting to do this. You want to run a 64 bit *nix system on a G-5. I thought that was what OS X was? I agree. I've run Ubuntu Linux on quite a few machines, and OS X is clearly superior for now, although I believe in the long run Linux or some descendent of Linux wins (unless Apple makes OS X open source freeware for all PC users). The problem with OS X on a G5 is the fact that Apple is abandoning support for the PPC Macs, so there won't be any more OS X updates. The recent lack of support for Java 1.6 for the PPC Macs is already made newer Java programming fail to run on PPC Macs. Most developers will soon abandon the universal versions of their software, meaning future OS X software won't run on PPC Macs, and a person will need to research and scrounge for whatever the final PPC version is. It's almost exactly like the old Fat days when Apple abandoned the 68k Macs. We'll be needing PPC software repositories just like the 68k Macs need. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
Kris Tilford wrote: The problem with OS X on a G5 is the fact that Apple is abandoning support for the PPC Macs One of the saddest days of my techno life was DEC selling the Alpha to Toshiba. My dearest desire was a 4 proc Alpha maxed out on RAM (Think it might have been 32 gigs or maybe 64) running hell for leather on anything I wanted to run on it. When In-smell was bragging about 450MHz single core processors, DEC was pumping out 1.4GHz processors and four socket motherboards. Oh, and the DECs were 64 bit while the intels were 32. Alas, it was not to be. (heavy sad sigh) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
Re: Linux on Power Mac G5?
On Sun, 2009-08-09 at 16:21 -0500, Dennis Myhand wrote: Mac User #330250 wrote: I'm not happy with the fact that the PowerPC version of OpenSUSE is a 32-bit distribution. Okay, it does matter only when an application needs more than 4 GB of RAM, allright. But my G5 has 16 GB RAM inside and I'm now trying to get a working 64-bit Linux if only the kernel would run! I'm a bit confused as to your reason for wanting to do this. You want to run a 64 bit *nix system on a G-5. I thought that was what OS X was. ... do. But (and ymmv) I have run Linux, and I have run OS X, and I much prefer OS X for fit, finish, and functionality. Peace, Dennis Howdy, He doesn't say why he wants to do this, but I can imagine several reasons. In fact, I plan to do this when the G5 Macs get cheap enough for me. An air cooler dual 1.6 or 1.8 GHz machine with Linux would make a nice machine for me. I don't think this is something very many users will be interested in and I would not recommend it for many people. OSX is prettier than any Linux setup I have seen. OSX has alway had the characteristic that the things it does well are very well done and easy to use and the things it does poorly are very hard to figure out and use. Linux has better overall usability for me because Apple does not always fully implement utilities. For example, samba on my current Mac does not work nearly as well as Linux from the same time frame. Linux is much easier to install most utilities on. The major distros have package managers(apt-get, yum, emerge, etc) that each make it a snap to install, say Postgresql or Mysql, or many other utilities not from Apple. On OSX, if a drag and drop installer is available, it will probably work OK, but you have to go find it somewhere and sometimes they are not available. The license on Linux is much better and I always feel more comfortable using software with user friendly licenses. I am always frustrated when it is time to upgrade OSX because I have to stop and read and study multiple lengthy license agreements to see what affect they will have on me. I know most people don't do that, but I am picky about the legal agreements I enter into. On Linux, software uses several license that I have studied beforehand and they are not regularly removing my rights with new versions of the license, like Apple does. And finally, running Linux is a good idea, just because it is there. I run a bunch of operating systems here at home. My main one is Linux, but I use OSX and it has it's place. Just trying and learning about them has it's own value. I don't have Linux running on a current Mac. I last used it regularly on a 700 MHz iMac. I asked on my local Linux mailing list and I'll report back to Andreas what I find. I am pretty sure our Vice President runs his main machine as Linux on a dual G5, but I don't know if he uses 32 or 64 bit Linux. He uses plain old Debian. Have a good day, Ralph --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ You received this message because you are subscribed Low End Mac's G3-5 List, a group for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs. The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to g3-5-list-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list?hl=en Low End Mac RSS feed at feed://lowendmac.com/feed.xml -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
