Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Jonas Lopez]

A good healthy discussion is what we all want, BUT: 

"This isn't any sort of benchmark; we're not testing the performance of the web 
browsers, we're checking, specifically, compatibility with HTML5 elements."

WE DO NOT CARE ABOUT ANY SCORE, except that I must have hit upon an item of 
interest, with some 20 replies today only. So for a score, I rate an 8 don't 
you think?

I am sad to see that not a single person added to or corrected this list -- 
which was the purpose for this post.

BROWSER    VERSION      MARKUP
Netscape
Seamonkey    2.X                 HTML 2
Opera
FireFox   2.0 HTML 3
Safari
TenFourFox
Internet Explorer 5.0                           

Also, it is very clear that we have some list members that are very 
professional and know a whole lot more than me and then there are the rest of 
us, trying to learn and understand what the future may hold for our PPCs.


"I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway"



===

--- On Sat, 5/12/12, peter  wrote:

From: peter 
Subject: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting 
content
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Date: Saturday, May 12, 2012, 7:49 AM

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've spent the last two weeks rewriting my wife's 
web site in HTML5, on my G4. I write it in text edit, and check it in safari, 
ten4fox, opera, ie5, and Firefox. Well written code will render something 
usable on any browser, and give those flashy bits of fun on the latest browsers.

Html5 and css3 could spell the death of flash, and be a serious blow to java 
script, but good ridence to bad rubbish! 

Finnaly, let's be clear, html5 is not fully implemented in any browser on any 
platform, thus the need for good coding practices, and backward compatability 
is written in to all HTML releases.

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[David W. Morris]

On May 12, 2012, at 7:49 AM, peter wrote:

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've spent the last two weeks  
rewriting my wife's web site in HTML5, on my G4. I write it in text  
edit, and check it in safari, ten4fox, opera, ie5, and Firefox. Well  
written code will render something usable on any browser, and give  
those flashy bits of fun on the latest browsers.


Good for you!  It is great to see even small (sorry for the assumption  
about your website) site administrators switching their sites to HTML5  
and getting rid of Flash and java script.  This allows many platforms  
that are not capable of playing Flash and/or having javascript  
problems to fully appreciate your site, without having Flash or  
javascript capable browsers.




Html5 and css3 could spell the death of flash, and be a serious blow  
to java script, but good ridence to bad rubbish!


I could not agree more, of say it in less words, more clearly.



Finnaly, let's be clear, html5 is not fully implemented in any  
browser on any platform, thus the need for good coding practices,  
and backward compatability is written in to all HTML releases.



That is a very BOLD statement, as there is not way you could know  
about all browsers on all platforms, but I won't argue the point with  
you.  I will agree with the second part of your statement regarding  
the need for good coding practices.  Too many bad coding practices (or  
lazy coding practices) have been promoted and learned by far too many  
people, and for far too many years, resulting in a limited few  
remaining programmers that even know how to write good, clean,  
efficient code any more.


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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > Complete Security failure 0/15
> 
> Not good, this means that you're subject to iframe hijacking, maybe. See:
> 

Two notes:

- Firefox doesn't pass this either
- This doesn't per se deal with clickjacking/hijacking. This is Mozilla's
explanation: https://wiki.mozilla.org/Features/Platform/Iframe_Sandbox

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Bruce Johnson]

On May 12, 2012, at 8:14 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

> 
> I don't mind constructive criticism, but the real Firefox doesn't have any
> of these either (except WebGL, which Mozilla does not support on 10.4 or
> 10.5), and neither do many other browsers. If people are going to evaluate
> features, comparing them against a realistic benchmark is always ideal.

This isn't any sort of benchmark; we're not testing the performance of the web 
browsers, we're checking, specifically, compatibility with HTML5 elements. As I 
said earlier, HTML5 is very much a work in progress and many things like WebGL 
are in flux as the various parties involved work out how to do this stuff. 
Also, until a standard gets mostly nailed down it's not a good idea to put too 
much effort into implementing it in production code.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Mac User #330250]

--  Original message  --
Subject: Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and 
presenting content
Date:Saturday, 12. May 2012
From:Bruce Johnson 
To:  g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> On May 12, 2012, at 5:01 AM, skinnie wrote:
> > I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to 
> > http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu
> > sometimes less!
> 
> A better way to see how compatible your browser is with HTML5 is here:
> 
> <http://html5test.com/>
> 
> It will tell you directly what features are supported and which are not. I
> did not see TenFourFox in the test list, be interesting to see how it
> fares.

Interesting: Konqueror 4.8.3 using WebKit on Linux reaches 321 plus 14 bonus 
points.

Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64) AppleWebKit/533.3 (KHTML, like Gecko) 
konqueror/4.8.3 Safari/533.3

My guess is that the newer Safari browsers, using the newer WebKit engine, 
will be about the same.

Since Safari 3 is using an older WebKit release it naturally supports less 
“features”. But looking at them, I’m not sure I really want or need all of 
them (at least I want the option of turning them off):
- Geolocation
- Video subtitle support


I think it’s better to have a secure and fast (=optimized code) engine that 
does display >99% of all web pages correctly. All the rest is optional at the 
best.


BTW and in that context, I think WebM support is very importaint, but look at 
the services supporting WebM/HTML5 and favorizing it over Flash: so far I’ve 
only found YouTube to be widely HTML5-ready, but still with Flash you get all 
of it, while with WebM you can sometimes only see the text "this video is not 
available as HTML5" (or so).
Flash is still widely used, and until this changes, WebM is a good development 
to be supported, but you can’t get very far with only it.


Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Cameron Kaiser]

> Please understand that the above was not meant as a criticism. It was  
> simply a report on the test results for TenFourFox that Bruce  
> wondered about. I did not even look at the test page results for  
> other browsers,
> 
> Looking at the test results, TenFourFox holds its' own very well,  
> even beating Safari 5.1 by a little and trouncing IE 9, which only  
> scored 138. It even scores better than the beta of IE 10.

I appreciate the context.

HTML5 is still very nebulous in many respects, certainly much less
well-defined than HTML 4.01, and many things have been "thrown" in of unclear
import.

-- 
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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Bruce Johnson]

On May 12, 2012, at 8:01 AM, Len Gerstel wrote:

> 
> On May 12, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
> 
>> 
>> On May 12, 2012, at 5:01 AM, skinnie wrote:
>> 
>>> I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to  
>>> http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu 
>>> sometimes less!
>> 
>> A better way to see how compatible your browser is with HTML5 is here:
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> It will tell you directly what features are supported and which are not. I 
>> did not see TenFourFox in the test list, be interesting to see how it fares.
> 
> I am running the latest TenFourFox, 10.0.4. Got a score of 327 plus 9 bonus 
> points. I think I have the latest Safari, 4.1.3, that will run on 10.4 and 
> that scored a 265 and 6 bonus points.
> 
> Looking at the what I think are the important stuff, TenFourFox seems to not 
> pass the following major items.

Each item name has a link to the relevant standards API document for that 
feature from W3C if you wish to see what it is and isn't failing.

Also note HTML5 is a lot farther along than it was last year, but keep in mind 
it is still a work in progress.

> Some audio codecs
> About 1/2 of the form inputs (56/108)

Yeah, the vast majority of websites don't yet use these, but use Jquery and 
such to manage these. In the future it'll be a lot easier to write these kinds 
of things in straight-up HTML instead of javascripts. It also makes styling 
these things easier, because standard css applies to it.

> No Microdata, whatever that is

Looked at the link, it's very much a work in progress by the W3C, so it's not 
surprising no one supports it yet.

> Complete Security failure 0/15

Not good, this means that you're subject to iframe hijacking, maybe. See: 



> Web GL 9/25 mostly for 3D context

Yeah this isn't widely supported.

> Files (FileSystem API failed)

>From W3C: "This specification defines an API to navigate file system 
>hierarchies, and defines a means by which a user agent may expose sandboxed 
>sections of a user's local filesystem to web applications."

I'm GLAD Safari fails that one! Great FSM on a fork! that's a Very Bad Idea.

> Local Multimedia Access the webcam failed
>I don't have one so don't know if that is the reason for  failing, 
> but isn't this a good thing to not give browsers direct access to webcams?

Again from the W3C : "This document defines a set of APIs that allow local 
media, including audio and video, to be requested from a platform."

You know when those folks in Pennsylvania (IIRC) kept turning on the webcams on 
school-issued laptops in kids bedrooms and such? Yeah, that. Another Very Bad 
Idea.

> Web Notifications failed

Looking at the specification, all I can see is fake antivirus malware as far as 
the eye can see. Yet another Very Bad Idea:



Note the mentions of 'notifications outside the web browser'.

Javascript has a perfectly usable notification mechanism already. 


-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Len Gerstel]

On May 12, 2012, at 11:14 AM, Cameron Kaiser wrote:


I am running the latest TenFourFox, 10.0.4. Got a score of 327 plus 9
bonus points. I think I have the latest Safari, 4.1.3, that will run
on 10.4 and that scored a 265 and 6 bonus points.

Looking at the what I think are the important stuff, TenFourFox seems
to not pass the following major items.

Some audio codecs
About 1/2 of the form inputs (56/108)
No Microdata, whatever that is
Complete Security failure 0/15
Web GL 9/25 mostly for 3D context
Files (FileSystem API failed)
Local Multimedia Access the webcam failed
 I don't have one so don't know if that is the reason
for  failing, but isn't this a good thing to not give browsers direct
access to webcams?
Web Notifications failed


I don't mind constructive criticism, but the real Firefox doesn't  
have any
of these either (except WebGL, which Mozilla does not support on  
10.4 or
10.5), and neither do many other browsers. If people are going to  
evaluate
features, comparing them against a realistic benchmark is always  
ideal.


Cameron,

Please understand that the above was not meant as a criticism. It was  
simply a report on the test results for TenFourFox that Bruce  
wondered about. I did not even look at the test page results for  
other browsers,


Looking at the test results, TenFourFox holds its' own very well,  
even beating Safari 5.1 by a little and trouncing IE 9, which only  
scored 138. It even scores better than the beta of IE 10.


Len

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Cameron Kaiser]

> I am running the latest TenFourFox, 10.0.4. Got a score of 327 plus 9  
> bonus points. I think I have the latest Safari, 4.1.3, that will run  
> on 10.4 and that scored a 265 and 6 bonus points.
> 
> Looking at the what I think are the important stuff, TenFourFox seems  
> to not pass the following major items.
> 
> Some audio codecs
> About 1/2 of the form inputs (56/108)
> No Microdata, whatever that is
> Complete Security failure 0/15
> Web GL 9/25 mostly for 3D context
> Files (FileSystem API failed)
> Local Multimedia Access the webcam failed
>  I don't have one so don't know if that is the reason  
> for  failing, but isn't this a good thing to not give browsers direct  
> access to webcams?
> Web Notifications failed

I don't mind constructive criticism, but the real Firefox doesn't have any
of these either (except WebGL, which Mozilla does not support on 10.4 or
10.5), and neither do many other browsers. If people are going to evaluate
features, comparing them against a realistic benchmark is always ideal.

-- 
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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Len Gerstel]

On May 12, 2012, at 9:42 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On May 12, 2012, at 5:01 AM, skinnie wrote:

I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to   
http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu  
sometimes less!


A better way to see how compatible your browser is with HTML5 is here:



It will tell you directly what features are supported and which are  
not. I did not see TenFourFox in the test list, be interesting to  
see how it fares.


I am running the latest TenFourFox, 10.0.4. Got a score of 327 plus 9  
bonus points. I think I have the latest Safari, 4.1.3, that will run  
on 10.4 and that scored a 265 and 6 bonus points.


Looking at the what I think are the important stuff, TenFourFox seems  
to not pass the following major items.


Some audio codecs
About 1/2 of the form inputs (56/108)
No Microdata, whatever that is
Complete Security failure 0/15
Web GL 9/25 mostly for 3D context
Files (FileSystem API failed)
Local Multimedia Access the webcam failed
I don't have one so don't know if that is the reason  
for  failing, but isn't this a good thing to not give browsers direct  
access to webcams?

Web Notifications failed

Len

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On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[peter]

Not to beat a dead horse, but I've spent the last two weeks rewriting my wife's 
web site in HTML5, on my G4. I write it in text edit, and check it in safari, 
ten4fox, opera, ie5, and Firefox. Well written code will render something 
usable on any browser, and give those flashy bits of fun on the latest browsers.

Html5 and css3 could spell the death of flash, and be a serious blow to java 
script, but good ridence to bad rubbish! 

Finnaly, let's be clear, html5 is not fully implemented in any browser on any 
platform, thus the need for good coding practices, and backward compatability 
is written in to all HTML releases.

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[elbert boone]

I use Tenfourfox myself.

iPad 1


On May 11, 2012, at 21:31, Jonas Lopez  wrote:

> HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content for the 
> World Wide Web, and is a core technology of the Internet originally proposed 
> by Opera Software. That having been said, what will kill us using PPCs and 
> the last browsers to run on these machines.
> 
> Attempting to put aside all the INTEL hype, if, IF a majority of the web 
> sites go to HTML5, which we can not read, is it this that will force us to 
> move on to INTEL?
> 
> CALL FOR INFORMATION - which versions of the popular browsers listed can 
> interpret which version of HTML, 1, 2, 3, 4, AND 5. Now, what browsers will 
> run on our PPCs?
> 
> Netscape
> Seamonkey VERSION 2.X / HTML 2
> Opera
> FireFox  VERSION  2.0 / HTML 3
> 
> "I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway"
> 
> ===
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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Bruce Johnson]

On May 12, 2012, at 5:01 AM, skinnie wrote:

> I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to  
> http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu sometimes 
> less!

A better way to see how compatible your browser is with HTML5 is here:



It will tell you directly what features are supported and which are not. I did 
not see TenFourFox in the test list, be interesting to see how it fares.

-- 
Bruce Johnson

"Wherever you go, there you are" B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[skinnie]

If you want to know wich browser options you have grab a read on my powerpc 
faq:
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1091765


Sábado, 12 de Maio de 2012 13:01:21 UTC+1, skinnie escreveu:
>
> As said there are a lot of options in terms of browsers for powerpc.
>
> I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to  
> http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu 
> sometimes less!
> The flash version took sometime to load, and then failed because I have a 
> flashblocker.
> This on G4 1.2Ghz,1.5Gb ram,GForce 6200,500Gb 7200rpm sata..bla bla bla
>

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[skinnie]

>
> As said there are a lot of options in terms of browsers for powerpc.

I used demeter, I don't know if supports html5, but if I go to 
 http://html5.grooveshark.com/ it plays nice and uses about 10% cpu 
sometimes less!
The flash version took sometime to load, and then failed because I have a 
flashblocker.
This on G4 1.2Ghz,1.5Gb ram,GForce 6200,500Gb 7200rpm sata..bla bla bla

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[David W. Morris]

On May 11, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dan wrote:


Why can we not read HTML5?  It's plain text, after all.  Oh - you  
mean render it?  Why not just use a browser that supports it.  There  
are several.


You might want to use Google a bit before posting alarmist-sounding  
drivel.


- Dan



You tell them Dan!

Even the tiny, almost extinct Amiga OS4.x on PPC and MorphOS2.7 also  
on PPC (MorphOS2.7 runs on many Mac G4 models), both have web browsers  
which read and render HTML5 and can also render HTML5 YouTube videos.


That was a very strange "alarmist" message that you responded to.

David W. Morris
aka AmigaDave

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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Dan]

At 6:31 PM -0700 5/11/2012, Jonas Lopez wrote:
HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content 
for the World Wide Web, and is a core technology of the Internet 
originally proposed by Opera Software.


heh.  Thought that text sounded familiar.  You really should provide 
a citation when ripping off someone else's writings.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HTML5


Attempting to put aside all the INTEL hype


What intel hype?  WTF are you talking about?

, if, IF a majority of the web sites go to HTML5, which we can not 
read, is it this that will force us to move on to INTEL?


Why can we not read HTML5?  It's plain text, after all.  Oh - you 
mean render it?  Why not just use a browser that supports it.  There 
are several.


You might want to use Google a bit before posting alarmist-sounding drivel.

- Dan.
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Re: On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 12-05-2012 3:31, Jonas Lopez ha scritto:

> Attempting to put aside all the INTEL hype, if, IF a majority of the web sites
> go to HTML5, which we can not read, is it this that will force us to move on
> to INTEL?
Perhaps you're not aware of TenFourFox (Firefox for PPC Macs):
http://www.cultofmac.com/92322/tenfourfox-is-here-to-bring-html5-to-your-ppc
-mac/

> CALL FOR INFORMATION - which versions of the popular browsers listed can
> interpret which version of HTML, 1, 2, 3, 4, AND 5. Now, what browsers will
> run on our PPCs?
Here you can find TenFourFox:
http://www.floodgap.com/software/tenfourfox/

And many, many thanks to the splendid Cameron Kaiser for his fantastic work!
:-)

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On PPCs, HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content

[Jonas Lopez]

HTML5 is a markup language for structuring and presenting content for the World 
Wide Web, and is a core technology of the Internet originally proposed by Opera 
Software. That having been said, what will kill us using PPCs and the last 
browsers to run on these machines.

Attempting to put aside all the INTEL hype, if, IF a majority of the web sites 
go to HTML5, which we can not read, is it this that will force us to move on to 
INTEL?

CALL FOR INFORMATION - which versions of the popular browsers listed can 
interpret which version of HTML, 1, 2, 3, 4, AND 5. Now, what browsers will run 
on our PPCs?

Netscape
Seamonkey VERSION 2.X / HTML 2
Opera
FireFox  VERSION  2.0 / HTML 3

"I'm a designated FREE SPIRIT HITCHHIKING on the Information Super Highway"



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