Re: HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[W.Adrian D'Alessio]

You may find the controllers and drives if you join the Low End Macs Swap
list.

Good luck


Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstrin...@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications






On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 6:51 PM, William Tomcanin 
wrote:

> I currently use the G4 to run legacy S/W -- I guess it's more of a hobby
> machine and not my primary H/W.
>
> I do have a lot of audio and photo files on it, as well as some legacy PPC
> S/W that I do not want to loose.
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:10 PM, W.Adrian D'Alessio <
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Is this a hobby computer or a machine that has been a DAW or other
>> workstation?
>> That would mean a great difference.
>> Or is it the only dire option between you and being cut off from the
>> world. Or perhaps a trusted and faithful companion you cannot part with?
>>
>> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
>> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
>> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
>> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
>> https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
>> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 3:34 PM, James Knight 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Personally I would get a sata to ide adapter and get any modern small
>>> reputable ssd. Clone it with ccc or similar.
>>>
>>> You won't have trim but with garbage collection on the drive and the
>>> bottleneck of the ide bus it should still be way faster and outlast the
>>> rest of the G4.
>>>
>>> Last time i researched this all the actual IDE ssd drives had crappy
>>> controllers.
>>> -James
>>>
>>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>>
>>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 15:09, William Tomcanin  wrote:
>>>
>>> Hello everyone,
>>>
>>> I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would
>>> appreciate receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for
>>> my "old" (original) hard drive.
>>>
>>> I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I
>>> replace and/or upgrade it?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance!
>>>
>>> --
>>> --
>>> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group
>>> for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on
>>> Power Macs.
>>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
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>>
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>> --
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Re: HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[William Tomcanin]

I currently use the G4 to run legacy S/W -- I guess it's more of a hobby
machine and not my primary H/W.

I do have a lot of audio and photo files on it, as well as some legacy PPC
S/W that I do not want to loose.

On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 4:10 PM, W.Adrian D'Alessio 
wrote:

> Is this a hobby computer or a machine that has been a DAW or other
> workstation?
> That would mean a great difference.
> Or is it the only dire option between you and being cut off from the
> world. Or perhaps a trusted and faithful companion you cannot part with?
>
> Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
> fluxstrin...@gmail.com
> http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
> http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
> https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 3:34 PM, James Knight 
> wrote:
>
>> Personally I would get a sata to ide adapter and get any modern small
>> reputable ssd. Clone it with ccc or similar.
>>
>> You won't have trim but with garbage collection on the drive and the
>> bottleneck of the ide bus it should still be way faster and outlast the
>> rest of the G4.
>>
>> Last time i researched this all the actual IDE ssd drives had crappy
>> controllers.
>> -James
>>
>> Sent from my mobile device.
>>
>> On Jan 29, 2017, at 15:09, William Tomcanin  wrote:
>>
>> Hello everyone,
>>
>> I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would appreciate
>> receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for my "old"
>> (original) hard drive.
>>
>> I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I
>> replace and/or upgrade it?
>>
>> Thanks in advance!
>>
>> --
>> --
>> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group
>> for those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on
>> Power Macs.
>> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
>> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
>> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
>> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group
>> /g3-5-list
>>
>> ---
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>>
>> --
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>
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Re: HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[Baldassare Guzzo]

I have the same machine and still use it all the time because there is so much 
good software that I use which is not available for my Macbook Pro.  I 
installed a gigabit PCI ethernet card, a sata drive with SeriTek 1S2 PCI 
controller,  an external Firewire OWC hard drive, GeForce4 Ti 4600 video card, 
1.5 GB ram, and a 4 port usb card.

My advice fwiw - Choose a sata drive with the best warranty and capacity you 
are looking for.  Back up everything you have.  Install the SeriTek 1S2 in any 
open PCI slot.  It allows you to connect up to two internal sata drives.   
Install new drive(s) (I used  Seagate 7200 rpm 500GB), connect, format, reboot, 
and reinstall software and your other data.   I had zero issues with this set 
up.  You can always hook up an external firewire drive as well.  I chose an OWC 
unit and it works well.   Again, choose something with a good warranty and just 
connect, format, and reboot.   

Note - My sata drives do not show up in the System Profiler.  I never bothered 
to find out why but maybe because they are being run through the PCI card.  
They do show up in Disk Utility.  


Barney

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 3:09 PM, William Tomcanin  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would appreciate 
> receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for my "old" 
> (original) hard drive.
> 
> I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I 
> replace and/or upgrade it?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> 
> -- 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml 
>  and our netiquette guide is at 
> http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml 
> 
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at 
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> 
> 
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Re: HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[W.Adrian D'Alessio]

Is this a hobby computer or a machine that has been a DAW or other
workstation?
That would mean a great difference.
Or is it the only dire option between you and being cut off from the world.
Or perhaps a trusted and faithful companion you cannot part with?

Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstrin...@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
http://www.facebook.com/FluxStringer
https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications






On Sun, Jan 29, 2017 at 3:34 PM, James Knight 
wrote:

> Personally I would get a sata to ide adapter and get any modern small
> reputable ssd. Clone it with ccc or similar.
>
> You won't have trim but with garbage collection on the drive and the
> bottleneck of the ide bus it should still be way faster and outlast the
> rest of the G4.
>
> Last time i researched this all the actual IDE ssd drives had crappy
> controllers.
> -James
>
> Sent from my mobile device.
>
> On Jan 29, 2017, at 15:09, William Tomcanin  wrote:
>
> Hello everyone,
>
> I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would appreciate
> receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for my "old"
> (original) hard drive.
>
> I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I
> replace and/or upgrade it?
>
> Thanks in advance!
>
> --
> --
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our
> netiquette guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/
> group/g3-5-list
>
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Re: HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[James Knight]

Personally I would get a sata to ide adapter and get any modern small reputable 
ssd. Clone it with ccc or similar.

You won't have trim but with garbage collection on the drive and the bottleneck 
of the ide bus it should still be way faster and outlast the rest of the G4.

Last time i researched this all the actual IDE ssd drives had crappy 
controllers.
-James

Sent from my mobile device.

> On Jan 29, 2017, at 15:09, William Tomcanin  wrote:
> 
> Hello everyone,
> 
> I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would appreciate 
> receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for my "old" 
> (original) hard drive.
> 
> I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I 
> replace and/or upgrade it?
> 
> Thanks in advance!
> -- 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
> those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power 
> Macs.
> The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
> guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
> To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
> For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list
> 
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HD recommendations for 2002 Quicksilver G4

[William Tomcanin]

Hello everyone,

I'm sure that this question has been asked before, but I would appreciate
receiving any information regarding replacement / upgrades for my "old"
(original) hard drive.

I'm concerned that it has been with me for over 15 years.  How should I
replace and/or upgrade it?

Thanks in advance!

-- 
-- 
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those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
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Re: Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi Bruce,

Thank you.

Op zaterdag 30 april 2016 21:57:37 UTC+2 schreef 
joh...@pharmacy.arizona.edu:
>
>
> > Does Disk utility show any SMART errors? I suspect it may be a flaky 
> drive. You can also get a utility like this <
> https://www.volitans-software.com/apps/smart-utility/> which will give 
> you better info than Disk Utility which simply tells you ‘errors have 
> occured' 
>
> That said I don’t have any experience with those drives on Macs, let alone 
> PPC macs…We’ve gotten them in a number of newer PC’s at work and haven’t 
> had issues.
>

I tried the latest SMART Utility you pointed me to but it won't start. I 
found an earlier version 2.0.0 in my app folder, a demo that still worked. 
It declared my WD 1TB green "Failing" because it has 6 reallocated bad 
blocks but declared my Seagate hybrid as fine.

As the WD is working flawlessly ever since one crash I guess I'll wait and 
see, I have a 5-year warranty and use CCC on a weekly basis. The shop where 
I bought the Seagate tests all RMAs on a PC and if they still work refuse 
to accept the warranty claim.

Everything's working fine now, keep my fingers crossed ...

Regards, Jörg.

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Re: Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Bruce Johnson]

> On Apr 30, 2016, at 10:11 AM, Jörg Duurkoop  wrote:
> 
> ut I experienced three crashes in three days after the purchase. The crash 
> happened always with three apps running, TenFourFox with about twelve 
> windows/tabs open, Vuze downloading a movie and watching a low-res video in 
> QuickTime.
> 
> I always keep two recent CCC-clones so I always can boot my Mac but I wonder 
> what causes these crashes - the only thing that moves is the beachball. One 
> time I could still open the force quit window but it wouldn't work anyway. 
> Could it be there are some issues Tiger has with hybrid disks or SSD? I like 
> the drive, it's fast, not expensive (97 €) and comes with a five year 
> warranty.

I don’t think that the Mac sees the ‘hybrid’ part of those disks; it just sees 
it as a SATA drive, the ssd part is managed by the on-board electronics. 

Does Disk utility show any SMART errors? I suspect it may be a flaky drive. You 
can also get a utility like this 
 which will give you 
better info than Disk Utility which simply tells you ‘errors have occured'

That said I don’t have any experience with those drives on Macs, let alone PPC 
macs…We’ve gotten them in a number of newer PC’s at work and haven’t had issues.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs

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Seagate hybrid HD crashes in a MDD

[Jörg Duurkoop]

Hi,

I own one of the last MDDs, a 1.25GHz dual processor machine. My system is 
10.4.11. Since my normal bootdisk, a WD 1TB SATA developed some bad blocks 
I bought a new harddisk to boot from, a Seagate SSHD ST2000DX001 2TB, a 
hybrid with 8GB of SSD memory.

It's placed alongside my old WD in the ATA 100 cage, both HDs are connected 
via SATA to ATA adapters. It is a little faster than my WD green and adapts 
"intelligently" to the user. My first startup took much longer than the 
second and the disk booted even faster the third time.

But I experienced three crashes in three days after the purchase. The crash 
happened always with three apps running, TenFourFox with about twelve 
windows/tabs open, Vuze downloading a movie and watching a low-res video in 
QuickTime.

I always keep two recent CCC-clones so I always can boot my Mac but I 
wonder what causes these crashes - the only thing that moves is the 
beachball. One time I could still open the force quit window but it 
wouldn't work anyway. Could it be there are some issues Tiger has with 
hybrid disks or SSD? I like the drive, it's fast, not expensive (97 €) and 
comes with a five year warranty.

Thanks for any comments,

Jörg.


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[Mac User #330250]

Original message from smac0031, 2015-05-31 04:34:
 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 
 running 10.1.11.

 It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data 
 drive.

 The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. 
 Starting with the optical empty
 does nothing. The computer just hangs.

 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to 
 use the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.

 Thanks
 Mark Murphy
Hello Mark!

I'm late, I know, but I just found this thread.
Maybe I missed it, but nobody mentioned block sizes. Newer drives tend
to be Advanced Format, meaning, each sector (physical block) on the
drive is not exactly 512 bytes anymore, but a multiple of that. Most
HDDs use a block size of 4096 bytes i.e. 4k.

The problem is that most older computers, firmwares and operating
systems really require this 512 bytes block size. That is why a lot of
HDDs with Advanced Format use emulation. Instead of reporting the true
block size of 4096, they will report 512, in which case you'd be safe
and could use the drive.

If, on the other hand, you purchased a drive without emulation, it will
report the native block size of 4096. This could have various effects,
including stalling the system completely.

You should read about Advanced Format on Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Format

Does your drive have an Advanced 4K Format or an Advanced 4Kn Format
logo? The later, with the letter n (4Kn versus just 4K) indicates
native mode, which will most likely cause problems.

You should get a drive with 512 byte block size emulation, i.e. one with
the Advanced 4K Format logo (without n for native – i.e. with an
invisible e for emulation ;-)).

Cheers,
Andreas  aka  Mac User #330250

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[Robert H . Baucom]

Yes, I’m having the  same problem with my 2000 Quicksilver w/2001 Processor.
Using it Offline with all my financial Data on it.
Quicken 207
On May 30, 2015, at 9:34 PM, smac0031 m.smurph...@gmail.com wrote:

I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 running 
10.1.11.

It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data drive.

The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. Starting 
with the optical empty
does nothing. The computer just hangs.

It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to use 
the button on the front. Same
for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
has some ideas.

Thanks
Mark Murphy

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[smac0031]

I've done more testing. This new drive just sits in the computer dumb and 
gives no signal that it's there. Neither my DA G4 
or my G5 register it. It's nothing.
I tried running Drive Genius and it doesn't find anything there.

I put the 1TB Seagate in my G4 again and zapped the Pram a couple of times 
before starting up. This time it came up
and I didn't get a Kernel Panic. I was able to copy 280GB of files to it. 
I'm going to put it back in the G5. This new drive
is going back.

Thanks,
Mark


On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 10:34:16 PM UTC-4, smac0031 wrote:

 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 
 running 10.1.11.

 It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data 
 drive.

 The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. 
 Starting with the optical empty
 does nothing. The computer just hangs.

 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to 
 use the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.

 Thanks
 Mark Murphy


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[Kris Tilford]

On Jun 4, 2015, at 6:16 PM, smac0031 m.smurph...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 I tried swapping 1TB seagate from my G5 into my DA G4 and the new drive into 
 the G5.
 
 The new drive would spin in the G5 and would not come up under Disk Utility.
 
 The Seagate came up in the G4 and after about a minute the G4 had a kernel 
 panic.
 
 I'm sending the new drive back. Weak link may be the sata pata adapter, but 
 that would not explain why the
 G5 couldn't see it.
 
 Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac, one that can play 
 with my iPhone 5c.
 
 Mark Murphy

Perhaps you’re not swapping hardware “correctly”?

When you’re changing hardware, you need to do two things:

1) zap the PRAM so the firmware reinitializes.

2) Safe Boot to ditch the old boot.cache and rebuild the kext.cache so the new 
kext configuration is present for the subsequent boot.

If you don’t at least Safe Boot once, you’re using the old boot.cache  
kext.cache, so it’s trying to boot with the old hardware configuration. This 
can often result in panic.

I don’t know what type of SATA adapter you’re using, but the best choice is 
usually a PCI card. Some cards have “special” firmware for some models of G4 
that have “known problems”.

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[peterhaas]

 Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac ...

A very wise choice.

Flexibility and reliability of MacOS X improved dramatically after the
switch to an Intel platform.

10.4.8 was the more-or-less first instance which supported Intel. Alas,
the underlying Intel hardware was somewhat primitive, with most of the
function provided off-chip.

10.9.5 is exceptionally reliable, with almost all function provided on-chip.





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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[smac0031]

I tried swapping 1TB seagate from my G5 into my DA G4 and the new drive 
into the G5.

The new drive would spin in the G5 and would not come up under Disk Utility.

The Seagate came up in the G4 and after about a minute the G4 had a kernel 
panic.

I'm sending the new drive back. Weak link may be the sata pata adapter, but 
that would not explain why the
G5 couldn't see it.

Thanks to everybody, I think I'm going to get an intel Mac, one that can 
play with my iPhone 5c.

Mark Murphy


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[t...@prismnet.com]

On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 9:34:16 PM UTC-5, smac0031 wrote:

 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 
 running 10.1.11.

 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to 
 use the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.


Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave?   You could 
be having Master/Slave issues.

Jeff Walther
 

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[peterhaas]

 Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave?   You could
 be having Master/Slave issues.

The SATA to PATA (IDE) converter I have does, indeed, have a Master/Slave
jumper, but, alas, no position which is explicitly Cable Select.

The drives in BW G3 and later machines support Cable Select, and this is
the optimal choice for those machines.

Alas, the Mini from the same generation DOES NOT support Cable Select ...
the caddies are Master (the built-in hard drive, only) OR Slave (the
optical drive caddy) ... however, those caddies intended to support a
second HD in the place of the optical drive are Master and no jumper is
provided for Slave. Installing the caddy, as shipped, into a Mini will
result in failure to boot as a consequence of the presence of two Masters.
Depending upon the version of hard drive caddy, either soldering a jumper
will be required, or a special metric shunt (jumper) will be required. The
shunts which were shipped with some 2.5 PATA (IDE) drives is usually the
appropriate choice.



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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[Kris Tilford]

 On Jun 1, 2015, at 1:32 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote:
 
 On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 9:34:16 PM UTC-5, smac0031 wrote:
 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 running 
 10.1.11.
 
 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to use 
 the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.
 
 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.
 
 Does the PATA/SATA adapter have a jumper to set Master/Slave?   You could be 
 having Master/Slave issues.

I’m not following this thread closely, so perhaps this isn’t right, but some of 
the early G4’s lacked LBA48 support for larger HDs in firmware. There was a 
patch to enable LBA48 support for bigger drives, but I think this was for 
models prior to the DA?

http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard-drives.html

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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[peterhaas]

 I'm not following this thread closely, so perhaps this isn't right,
 but some of the early G4's lacked LBA48 support for larger HDs in
 firmware. There was a patch to enable LBA48 support for bigger drives, but
 I think this was for models prior to the DA?

 http://4thcode.blogspot.com/2007/12/using-128-gib-or-larger-ata-hard-drives.html

That IS the correct hack for LBA48.

There was a shorter one posted elsewhere, but the above-cited hack is the
one which ALWAYS worked for me.

The 1000 MHz Quicksivers supposedly came with the LBA48 property already
in O.F.

The 800 MHz Quicksilvers DID NOT.

The determining factor is the P/N of the Quicksilver MB. -A does not
have LBA48; -B does.

Any model after an 800 MHz Quicksilver should be assumed to support LBA48
OOTB.

One reason for the hack is it is to O.F. itself, so, therefore, it is
active at boot-time.

The Speedtools alternative only works after the extension has been
successfully loaded, so it is not available at boot-time.



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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[Frank Dutra]

FWIW, I have been using giant SATA drives for the last 5-6 years 
with my 2002 G4 Mystic, which is an earlier machine than the DA. I 
currently have a Seritek 1s2 pci SATA card (2 internal ports) with a 
2tb Seagate and a 3tb Western digital mounted above the optical drive 
slot. I have also used a 4 port seritek card that I abandoned due to 
intermittent sleep issues. I believe these both were SATA I cards, 
though I have the newer SATA II and III drives, which are supposed to 
be backward compatible, and were in my case.


If I recall, certain drives had issues with the chipsets in the pci 
cards, but most were compatible. The only problem I've had was 
formatting the WD 3 tb drive, which I did with an OWC Voyager 
external firewire/usb/sata box. (Disk utility only saw 2 tb, which I 
think is the systems upper limit, thus 2tb and 1 tb partitions were 
needed). I'm stuck with a pokey 100 bus, but have still have 
experienced a noticeable improvement in performance  with these large 
capacity Sata drives, much faster than using an external firewire box 
like the Voyager.







I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA 
G4 running 10.1.11.


It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data drive.

The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. 
Starting with the optical empty

does nothing. The computer just hangs.

It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you 
have to use the button on the front. Same

for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize 
this computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody

has some ideas.

Thanks
Mark Murphy

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Voice: (508) 292-1528
FAX:   (815) 377-2407


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[peterhaas]

 Can the G4 address that much space?

Remember, the SCSI drives only have one parameter block for specifying the
LBA (but there are several parameter block formats).

Small/large IDE drives are accessed in this way:

1) Small drives have one parameter block, whereas

2) large drives use the same parameter block as small drives, for the
low-order 24 bits of the LBA, and a second parameter block for the
high-prder 24 bits of the LBA, for a total of 48 bits.

Should the drive receive just the first parameter block, then just the
first 131,072 MB will be accessed.

The drive temporarily waits for the second parameter block. If it is
received, then the two 24 bit values are concatenated into a 48 bit LBA,
and the access proceeds.

It is for this reason that large IDE drives which are connected to an
internal IDE port on a PPC Mac can only access 131,072 MB.

However, some PPC Macs can have the LBA48 property turned on, by using
certain special Open Firmware commands. This is what the Speedtools
product simulated using a plug-in extension. But such an extension was not
always required, if Open Firmware was employed to hack the LBA48 property.

See info in ...

http://www.seagate.com/staticfiles/support/disc/manuals/Interface%20manuals/100293068c.pdf

... starting at page 18.

SCSI drives, which is what ATA drives are modeled after in PCI cards for
Macs (and PCs), whenever a PCI card is employed for their access, have
several parameter blocks, with various bit counts associated with the
specification of the LBA, but only one such parameter block per access.





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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[smac0031]

I have 120 and a 300 in it right now. The 120 is the boot drive. I have a 
lot of video files that are filling up the 120. Will a 500GB pata work?

Mark Murphy


On Saturday, May 30, 2015 at 10:34:16 PM UTC-4, smac0031 wrote:

 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 
 running 10.1.11.

 It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data 
 drive.

 The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. 
 Starting with the optical empty
 does nothing. The computer just hangs.

 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to 
 use the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.

 Thanks
 Mark Murphy


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Re: Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[W.Adrian D'Alessio]

Disconnect it and fix your problem. Then get a smaller drive.
Why encumber your trusty work horse with problems?

Balance is very valuable in a system.



Adrian D'Alessio aka; Fluxstringer
fluxstrin...@gmail.com
http://www.flickr.com/photos/fluxstreamcommunication/
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https://www.youtube.com/user/fluxstringer
http://www.linkedin.com/in/fluxstreamcommunications
http://flux-influx.blogspot.com/
http://fluxdreams.designbinder.com/




On Sat, May 30, 2015 at 10:34 PM, smac0031 m.smurph...@gmail.com wrote:

 I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4
 running 10.1.11.

 It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data
 drive.

 The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing.
 Starting with the optical empty
 does nothing. The computer just hangs.

 It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to
 use the button on the front. Same
 for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

 Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this
 computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
 has some ideas.

 Thanks
 Mark Murphy

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Giant Sata HD bolluxes up my DA G4

[smac0031]

I got a 2TB sata HD and Pata Sata converter for it to use in my DA G4 
running 10.1.11.

It's hooked up to a 133ATA card. I have 120GB boot drive and 300GB data 
drive.

The computer just hangs on boot-up. The optical drive does nothing. 
Starting with the optical empty
does nothing. The computer just hangs.

It's had startup issues for some time.  It order to reboot it you have to 
use the button on the front. Same
for shutdown. I just let it run all the time.

Looks like the giant 2TB is useless for this machine and I realize this 
computer is 15 years old. Unless somebody
has some ideas.

Thanks
Mark Murphy

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Need the pinout for the power connection on the Cinema HD 22 DVI display

[faithie999]

i was given the above monitor, but no power supply.  the cheapest one i can 
find is $80 which is an amount i don't want to invest into this monitor. 
 to make sure i've identified the monitor properly, it has a ring on the 
cable from which emanates the cable into the monitor, the power cable, a 
usb cable, and the DVI connector.

i was wondering if anyone has one of these monitors who would be willing to 
use a voltmeter on the monitor's power supply to determine the pinout.  the 
power supply is 16V DC, 65 watts.  there are two larger and one smaller pin 
on the power cable going into the monitor, so i assume the larger ones are 
+16v and ground, and the smaller one is either another ground, or just a 
locating pin for the connector to be properly aligned into the power supply 
jack.

thanks in advance

ken baker

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Re: HD replacement goof

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 30, 2014, at 10:43 AM, Fred Thiel fth...@sbcglobal.net wrote:

  I got many error messages saying 'USBF:  612.769 found a transaction past 
 the completion deadline on bus 25, timing out!'
 After I realized my mistake, I re-configured the boot drive correctly and the 
 machine runs much better now. Disk Utility finds no problems, but AppleJack 
 still returns the error messages not as many as before.
 
 I don't like error messages like that from AppleJack. Does anyone know what 
 is going on?

That is a USB bus error, so it's not surprising that Disk Utility found nothing 
:-) It's kind of like checking the pressure in your tires when the 'Check 
Engine' light is on.

I'd take everything USB off the system except the keyboard, and see if 
Applejack still reports these errors.

If it doesn't, re-add USB devices one at a time, checking in System Profiler to 
see that they're recognized and functional,, until you get an error.

If it does continue to report the errors, try swapping the keyboard, or you may 
have a failing USB bus on the logic board. This is easily remedied, by adding a 
USB PCI card.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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HD replacement goof

[Fred Thiel]

Greetings all

I had to replace the hard drive on my wife's Quicksilver 733, OSX Tiger 
yesterday. There were two drives in it and the boot drive went down. I replaced 
it with a new WD and removed the secondary while I had it open, however I put 
the jumper on the new one like the old primary, having forgotten it needed to 
be configured differently since there was no slave drive anymore. Needless to 
say, there were problems. When I ran Applejack, I got many error messages 
saying 'USBF:  612.769 found a transaction past the completion deadline on bus 
25, timing out!'
After I realized my mistake, I re-configured the boot drive correctly and the 
machine runs much better now. Disk Utility finds no problems, but AppleJack 
still returns the error messages not as many as before.

I don't like error messages like that from AppleJack. Does anyone know what is 
going on?

Thanks
Fred

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Re: HD replacement goof

[peterhaas]

 I had to replace the hard drive on my wife's Quicksilver 733, OSX Tiger
 yesterday. There were two drives in it and the boot drive went down. I
 replaced it with a new WD and removed the secondary while I had it open,
 however I put the jumper on the new one like the old primary, having
 forgotten it needed to be configured differently since there was no slave
 drive anymore. Needless to say, there were problems.

This rather large family of machines uses Cable Select cables, as the
patent which Apple licensed from hp/Compaq (for Cable Select and generic
generic PC reset and startup) needs Cable Select mode in order to issue
the required Selective Reset commands to the drives.

You are probably advised to option your drives for CS, and to let the
cable do its magic.

Alternatively, CS can indeed coexist with Master- and Slave-optioned,
provided:

1) in a single drive situation, that drive is optioned for Master, and is
physically the farthest away from the host (the motherboard), OR

2) in a dual drive situation, the drives have different options, one being
Master, the other being Slave, and in this case it doesn't matter which is
Master and which is Slave, as both are really peers, IOW, there is
really no such thing as a true Master and a true Slave.



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Re: G5 HD Screws

[calbert wilson]

lok  on   the  below  the  hdd  you  see  some  hdd screw  on the  hdd  casing  
On Aug 23, 2013, at 3:44 PM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote:

 On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Macg4-steve wrote:
 
 Has anyone got four of those rubber Hard drive screws for the G5? Im after 
 putting in a second hard drive and just realised it has special Mac screws.
 
 There's a spare set located within the G5 along the wall of the HD area. Look 
 around, you should already have a set unless you bought this used, or lost 
 them.
 
 Best luck!
 
 Kris Tilford - Topeka, Kansas
 
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Re: G5 HD Screws

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 23/08/13 19.33, Macg4-steve ha scritto:

 Has anyone got four of those rubber Hard drive screws for the G5? Im after
 putting in a second hard drive and just realised it has special Mac screws.

When I got a second-hand G5, it missed both the hard-drive and those special
screws. 
Since they are pretty expensive, I just screwed four normal hard-drives
screws in the drive's sides, taking care that one of the 6 screw' side was
horizontal (they usually have hexagonal heads), and inserted the drive that
way.

The drive worked flawlessly for almost 2 years (until the G5's motherboard
had the infamous memory controller fault), thus I think you don't really
need anything more.

Of course, YMMV. The rubber screws are better for isolating the drive from
the computer vibrations but, being mine a liquid-cooled G5, vibrations (and
noise) were almost non-existing.


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Re: G5 HD Screws

[Kris Tilford]

On Aug 23, 2013, at 12:33 PM, Macg4-steve wrote:

 Has anyone got four of those rubber Hard drive screws for the G5? Im after 
 putting in a second hard drive and just realised it has special Mac screws.

There's a spare set located within the G5 along the wall of the HD area. Look 
around, you should already have a set unless you bought this used, or lost them.

Best luck!

Kris Tilford - Topeka, Kansas

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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[Al Poulin]

Also look at OWC:
http://www.macsales.com/

They have SATA and IDE/ATA drives of more modest capacities for older 
machines. Their phone sales staff provide excellent service.

Al Poulin

On Wednesday, July 31, 2013 8:17:20 PM UTC-4, Ken Daggett wrote:


 I am looking to buy one or two new HDs for a newly acquired G5 DP   
 2GHz machine. 

 Any druthers between Seagate and Western Digital? (Or any other   
 brand, for that matter.) 

 Ken 


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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[peterhaas]

 It's only the 4TB flavor which is 5900 RPM. The 3TB and lower speeds
 are, I believe, all 7200 RPM. At any rate, that's what newegg claims
 in the chart they have on their product page for these drives.

I stand corrected, sort of.

It is indeed the 4 TB which is Desktop.

The others, at least those which are 7200 rpm (there DO exist Seagate 3 TB
drives which are NOT 7200 rpm, and those are apparently also Desktop) are
called 7200.14. Most probably from the 14th incarnation of a 7200 rpm
drive family, that which was formerly known as Barracuda.

So, at this moment, there are these drives Desktop HDD.15 4 TB, 5900 rpm
and7200.14, all others from 3 TB down, and all of those are 7200 rpm.



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SATA Internal HD for G5

[Ken Daggett]

I am looking to buy one or two new HDs for a newly acquired G5 DP  
2GHz machine.


Any druthers between Seagate and Western Digital? (Or any other  
brand, for that matter.)


Ken

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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[James Knight]

You might look at a used several years old velociraptor on the popular auction 
site. Otherwise any 7200rpm drive should do just fine for you. Personally I've 
had drives from every maker except Samsung fail, but it is probably only a 
matter of time for them too.

Sent from my mobile device.

On Jul 31, 2013, at 8:17 PM, Ken Daggett kadagg...@gmail.com wrote:

 
 I am looking to buy one or two new HDs for a newly acquired G5 DP 2GHz 
 machine.
 
 Any druthers between Seagate and Western Digital? (Or any other brand, for 
 that matter.)
 
 Ken
 
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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[peterhaas]

 You might look at a used several years old velociraptor on the popular
 auction site. Otherwise any 7200rpm drive should do just fine for you.
 Personally I've had drives from every maker except Samsung fail, but it is
 probably only a matter of time for them too.

Noboby makes flawless drives, as all drives, but perhaps most particularly
WD's, are made to low price-points (exception: so-called enterprise
drives, which are built to a much higher price- and performance-point).

Samsung is now owned by Seagate.


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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[John Carmonne]

On Jul 31, 2013, at 6:45 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote:

 
 You might look at a used several years old velociraptor on the popular
 auction site. Otherwise any 7200rpm drive should do just fine for you.
 Personally I've had drives from every maker except Samsung fail, but it is
 probably only a matter of time for them too.
 
 Noboby makes flawless drives, as all drives, but perhaps most particularly
 WD's, are made to low price-points (exception: so-called enterprise
 drives, which are built to a much higher price- and performance-point).
 
 Samsung is now owned by Seagate.
 

Hitachi and Seagate are my choice in the 7200 64MB. Never had a Hitachi go yet, 
but I'm sure someday one will.
Newegg most times has the best price, look for the weekly sales:-)

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[peterhaas]

 Hitachi and Seagate are my choice in the 7200 64MB. Never had a Hitachi go
 yet, but I'm sure someday one will.
 Newegg most times has the best price, look for the weekly sales:-)

Seagate has, unfortunately, elected to abandon the justifiably famous
Barracuda trademark for its drives.

Originally a super-high performance SCSI drive, the internal technology
was subsequently extended to IDE and SATA drives.

The 3 TB 5,900 rpm drives in the former Barracuda family are now called
desktop drives.

The 2 TB 7,200 rpm and smaller capacity drives are from the same family as
the 3 TB, but with fewer platters and, obviously, higher spindle speed.

The 2 TB and smaller drives are referred to as desktop drives, formerly
called Barracuda.

A few true Barracuda drives are still available, but these are not from
the desktop drives, formerly called Barracuda family.



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Re: SATA Internal HD for G5

[irrational John]

On Wed, Jul 31, 2013 at 10:05 PM, peterh...@cruzio.com wrote:

 The 3 TB 5,900 rpm drives in the former Barracuda family are now called
 desktop drives.


It's only the 4TB flavor which is 5900 RPM. The 3TB and lower speeds
are, I believe, all 7200 RPM. At any rate, that's what newegg claims
in the chart they have on their product page for these drives.

I'm not sure what difference it makes whether they call them
Barracuda or 7200.14 or Rosebud. It's what's inside the drive
and how well Seagate supports it that matters to me. I'm more upset
about the warranty period being reduced to two years than a name
change ... but what can one do?

newegg.com is still listing (most of) Seagate's current 3.5 drives as
Seagate Barracuda, but perhaps that  is just to help customer's used
to the Seagate's previous naming convention? A different name is only
used for the 4TB drive. It is listed as Seagate Desktop HDD.15
versus Seagate Barracuda 7200.14.

FWIW, if you want to glance at their specs table for the Seage drive
below is a link to the page for
Seagate Barracuda 7200.14 ST3000DM001 3TB 7200 RPM 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16822148844

-irrational john

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Wayne Stewart]

How about a Sonnet SATA card? It'll boot OS 9. If you really want an 
external you can add an eSATA adapter. You can easily get an external case 
with eSATA and USB or FW so you could easily move data to another machine. 
New SATA drives ate cheap enough, they're almost giving away small used 
ones. 
I've used one to boot OS 9 on a 9600  via an external 1tb Lacie HD 
(partitioned of course). 

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[coverturtle]

You should also be able to use SCSI II as well.  68-pin to 50-pin 
conversion adapters will work.  I have used these successfully on a 
9600/350 with an ATTO card, but also use almost any SCSI with an adapter 
to 50pin.
I've used them with a Quadra 650 as well.  The PCI ATTO card will also 
work with some LV SCSI drives.


The important thing is that when you create the partition on the drive 
that you make sure it's bootable.  The Apple disk app will do this but 
you might want to do some reading up on it on the internet.
The one thing I have noted is that some of the older OS systems (6,7) 
aren't able to read HSF+ formatted volumes: HFS must be used.  HSF 
Volumes are limited to 2 gigs if I remember correctly.


For me, my beige G3 was problematic with USB.  I basically gave up on 
that.  But I would say that if you can boot 9.2.2 from the ZIP, you 
should be able to boot the hard drive.
I had success installing and running OS 10.4 Tiger on my G3 and using 
Classic. (Don't use the UNIX/LINUX command line executables to copy 
Classic files to OS X - they can't read the data on some files)
Also, booting back and forth from OS X and 9.1 was a pain; I could not 
always do it consistently.


BTW, I did get 9.2.2 (Old World Computing mod) successfully and 
consistently on my 9600/350 with the ATTO PCI card.  The only 
requirement was that I needed to be booted so I could select the boot
volume in the system preferences.  Pay attention to what is needed for 
the OWC 9.2.2 to work (previous posts).


ATTO PCI cards are inexpensive, $25-$35 last I looked on ebay and worth 
every penny.  For the G3 beige, you'll need an extra long ATA cable to 
hook up 2 ATA drives internally.  SCSI adapters can be had for a

reasonable price as well.

As far as the power supply goes, I've used external enclosures 
successfully for years (but not necessarily cheap).  Just need power and 
50-pin cables.  The external enclosure really needs a switch to
allow changing the SCSI ID which must be unique - different from any 
other SCSI device on the same SCSI bus.  If you don't have that switch, 
you will have to remove the drive from the enclosure
(or at least open the enclosure) in order to change the jumpers. See if 
you can determine the usual default IDs for the other SCSI devices if 
there are any.  Default SCSI boot drive SCSI ID is zero

- usually all jumpers removed.

Hope something above helps.  (a detail is below)
Jon

On 02/10/2013 03:08 PM, Click wrote:
The setup that I tried originally was an 80G drive partitioned into 7G 
and 83G on the external FW device. Since the internal ATA drive is 
only 6G, this allowed me to backup the internal ATA drive completely 
to that first partition.  My intent was that I would also be able to 
use this external 7G partition as a complete backup for the internal 
ATA drive.  Since the beige G3 won't boot from FW, then I need to 
reconsider.
HFS+ volumes have a huge limit on size, but there may be a volume size 
limit for 9.2.2.  Do the research.


So I guess it'll be a SCSI-1 device (how can I tell from the ebay 
listings) or install a second ATA drive into the beige.  Fortunately 
the beige desktop has the later ROM which allows for a slave device on 
the cable.  I was just hoping not to add any more power usage strain 
on that feeble old 150W internal power supply.


Only remaining question, then,  is how to tell if a hard drive or HD 
enclosure is compatible with the beige port?  What spec do I need to 
ask about before I purchase?  It looks like there's quite a variety of 
SCSI interfaces and protocols out there to my uneducated eye, at least.
50-pin connector is necessary but an adapter to 50-pin will work, just 
expect the drive to access at 50-pin speeds even though it's rated to be 
faster.  You will need a cable to bridge from the enclosure to the G3.
Easiest or most common (?) cable is a 50-pin male Centronics-type (with 
the wire clips) on the enclosure to a male 50-pin Apple SCSI connector. 
  Used frequently back in the day.


On Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:17:50 AM UTC-8, billycarmacs wrote:


On Feb 10, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Click wrote:

 Tnx, Kris.  That's what I was beginning to think.  Seems a
little odd given the internal ATA drive(s) boot setup. So I need
to look for a SCSI interface external drive.  What version of SCSI
would work on the beige G3 built-in port-only v1?  Does it matter
what type of drive interface is on the inside of the SCSI external
enclosure?  In other words if I could find an ATA or eSATA drive
that worked in a SCSI enclosure, do you have any idea if that
would work?

 My particular need is to have a backup drive to native boot into
OS 9 to continue using some critical apps that were dropped by the
vendor when OS X came about.  Classic on my Mac minis Tiger
doesn't fully work for one of the apps, after MUCH experimenting.


Even though the OP says Backup Drive, I think he could also use

Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 11, 2013, at 3:23 AM, Wayne Stewart wrote:

How about a Sonnet SATA card? It'll boot OS 9. If you really want an  
external you can add an eSATA adapter. You can easily get an  
external case with eSATA and USB or FW so you could easily move data  
to another machine. New SATA drives ate cheap enough, they're almost  
giving away small used ones.
I've used one to boot OS 9 on a 9600  via an external 1tb Lacie HD  
(partitioned of course).



A Sonnet SATA card would be a pricey addition to an old Mac that's  
severely limited already. For the price of the Sonnet card you could  
likely retire the Beige in favor a G4, an old Mini, or a handful of  
Mac laptops that have more capability than a stock G3.


I ran a G3 many years while booted externally from Firewire HDs  
because Firewire was cheap, fast, and easy to transfer from one Mac to  
another. I think the best use of money for upgrading a Beige G3 is CPU  
first, video card second, and in my experience I believe internal ATA  
 SATA cards are not price effective in comparison to cheap Firewire.


A fully upgraded Beige G3 MUST have a G4 CPU, a Radeon video card that  
supports Quartz Extreme, and both USB 2.0  Firewire ports. With only  
3 PCI slots available, it's really tough to justify in internal ATA or  
SATA card when likely you've filled all three slots with Radeon, USB  
2.0, and Firewire. There are combo USB  Firewire cards, which I have  
tried in conjunction with an ATA card, but the problem is that these  
combo cards never have OS 9 support are are effectively dead in OS 9.  
Better to use the internal ATA for OS 9, and Firewire for OS X in my  
opinion.


Upgrading old Beige G3s is NOT cost effective in today's world. The  
sweet spot for price vs. power is certainly migrated to used Intel PC  
hackintosh hardware capable of running current Mt. Lion software. If  
you must have pure Apple hardware, the sweet spot is likely either G5  
Macs, or early Intel Macs - look for upgradeable Intel Macs that  
support newer CPUs  video, such as early Intel iMacs. The days of PPC  
Macs are severely limited now, the migration to Intel may soon become  
the migration to ARM, after all, Apple owns ARM chipset designers, not  
Intel or PPC. Move along or be left behind, that's the choice.


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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 11, 2013, at 10:59 AM, Kris Tilford ktilfo...@cox.net wrote:

 On Feb 11, 2013, at 3:23 AM, Wayne Stewart wrote:
 
 How about a Sonnet SATA card? It'll boot OS 9. If you really want an 
 external you can add an eSATA adapter. You can easily get an external case 
 with eSATA and USB or FW so you could easily move data to another machine. 
 New SATA drives ate cheap enough, they're almost giving away small used ones.
 I've used one to boot OS 9 on a 9600  via an external 1tb Lacie HD 
 (partitioned of course).
 
 
 A Sonnet SATA card would be a pricey addition to an old Mac that's severely 
 limited already. For the price of the Sonnet card you could likely retire the 
 Beige in favor a G4, an old Mini, or a handful of Mac laptops that have more 
 capability than a stock G3.
 
 I ran a G3 many years while booted externally from Firewire HDs because 
 Firewire was cheap, fast, and easy to transfer from one Mac to another. I 
 think the best use of money for upgrading a Beige G3 is CPU first, video card 
 second, and in my experience I believe internal ATA  SATA cards are not 
 price effective in comparison to cheap Firewire.
 
 A fully upgraded Beige G3 MUST have a G4 CPU, a Radeon video card that 
 supports Quartz Extreme, and both USB 2.0  Firewire ports. With only 3 PCI 
 slots available, it's really tough to justify in internal ATA or SATA card 
 when likely you've filled all three slots with Radeon, USB 2.0, and Firewire. 
 There are combo USB  Firewire cards, which I have tried in conjunction with 
 an ATA card, but the problem is that these combo cards never have OS 9 
 support are are effectively dead in OS 9. Better to use the internal ATA for 
 OS 9, and Firewire for OS X in my opinion.
 
 Upgrading old Beige G3s is NOT cost effective in today's world. The sweet 
 spot for price vs. power is certainly migrated to used Intel PC hackintosh 
 hardware capable of running current Mt. Lion software. If you must have pure 
 Apple hardware, the sweet spot is likely either G5 Macs, or early Intel Macs 
 - look for upgradeable Intel Macs that support newer CPUs  video, such as 
 early Intel iMacs. The days of PPC Macs are severely limited now, the 
 migration to Intel may soon become the migration to ARM, after all, Apple 
 owns ARM chipset designers, not Intel or PPC. Move along or be left behind, 
 that's the choice.

What Kris said, with these caveats:

The OP requires native boot in OS 9. That means one off of this list that shows 
Boot Only or Boot/Classic:

http://www.everymac.com/systems/by_capability/macs-that-support-macos-9-classic.html

No G5 ever booted in anything but OS X.

Also, IIRC there WAS a line of MDD 1.25 systems that were released after the G5 
came out that did boot in OS 9, released in response to the demands of a lot of 
BIG customers using (IIRC) mostly Quark Express.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Cameron Kaiser]

 Also, IIRC there WAS a line of MDD 1.25 systems that were released after the
 G5 came out that did boot in OS 9, released in response to the demands of a
 lot of BIG customers using (IIRC) mostly Quark Express.

Rule of thumb: Power Mac G4 with FW400 can boot OS 9; FW800 cannot.

This doesn't apply to PowerBooks or iBooks, of course.

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Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Click]

I cannot get my Beige G3 Desktop on System 9.2.2 to boot from my external 
FW device, even though I set up an initial 7GB OS 9 System Partition using 
Apple Partition Map.  The Drive Setup on my Beige shows the FW device as 
unsupported, which I figured was true for the Drive Setup program, not 
necessarily true for the OS, since the drive and partitions mount and 
function fine on my desktop.

My goal is to be able to boot from an external HD that I can specify with 
Startup Disk or on startup via key command .  Startup Disk sees the FW 
System folder and I set the FW drive as boot, but the system reverts to 
only the ATA internal drive to boot no matter what I do. What am I missing? 
The command+option+shift+del key command on startup does not give a 
different result.  So I'm figuring that it's a hardware thing and the FW 
device just doesn't get recognized as a boot-able device even though it 
functions fine as an external HD.

What are my options to get an external HD boot device?I have an 
internal zip drive but I need more than the 250MB device storage limit for 
the System 9.2.2, folder and I have limited trust in 250 zip disks these 
days anyway.  Perhaps SCSI?...but there's not many SCSI external enclosures 
left out there.  I haven't gotten USB to work yet in this one, despite 
trying three different OHCI-compliant cards...but does USB offer a 
possibility if I can somehow get it to work?

Ideas and suggestions, please


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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Alex Sciortino]

Try booting while holding option. You should have a boot disk selection thing 
at that point. 

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Click]

In my post I mentioned that I tried the command+option+shift+del key 
command on startup without result.  That's the official command, according 
to Apple http://support.apple.com/kb/TA43845?viewlocale=en_US. The same 
non-response happens with option on startup.  I did check to see that it 
would respond with Extensions Off with shift key down at startup and that 
worked fine.  So it's not a keyboard or timing issue.  Oh, and I made sure 
that the FW device was turned on at startup.

On Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:21:39 AM UTC-8, Alex Sciortino wrote:

 Try booting while holding option. You should have a boot disk selection 
 thing at that point. 

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 10, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Click wrote:


Ideas and suggestions, please


Since the Beige G3 didn't come with either built-in Firewire or built- 
in USB, neither if these are natively bootable, and holding the Option  
key, or trying to select the HD in Startup Disk won't work.


The only natively bootable external option is the external SCSI port,  
which should be able to boot any bootable System.


It's possible to boot OS X from the external Firewire HD by using  
XPostFacto 4. In this case you'd use any internal HD as an XPF Helper  
Disk in the XPF Options, and then point the boot at the external  
Firewire HD. This will start the boot process on the internal HD, and  
then seamlessly transfer the boot to the external HD after the  
extensions that load the PCI Firewire card are loaded and the Firewire  
HD is available. This is your ONLY option to boot externally from  
unsupported PCI cards. It will also work with ATA cards that lack  
Apple Boot ROM compatibility, and may work with some USB cards  
although USB isn't officially supported by XPF because some cards were  
very problematic. You can only boot OS X using XPF Helper Disk, so a  
10.4.11 System would be optimal for the external Firewire HD.


If you decide to go this route, I can help with any problems off-list.

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Click]

Tnx, Kris.  That's what I was beginning to think.  Seems a little odd given 
the internal ATA drive(s) boot setup. So I need to look for a SCSI 
interface external drive.  What version of SCSI would work on the beige G3 
built-in port-only v1?  Does it matter what type of drive interface is on 
the inside of the SCSI external enclosure?  In other words if I could find 
an ATA or eSATA drive that worked in a SCSI enclosure, do you have any idea 
if that would work?  

My particular need is to have a backup drive to native boot into OS 9 to 
continue using some critical apps that were dropped by the vendor when OS X 
came about.  Classic on my Mac minis Tiger doesn't fully work for one of 
the apps, after MUCH experimenting.

Now off to eBay and Google for some SCSI shopping...



On Sunday, February 10, 2013 9:37:44 AM UTC-8, Kris Tilford wrote:

 On Feb 10, 2013, at 10:39 AM, Click wrote: 

  Ideas and suggestions, please 

 Since the Beige G3 didn't come with either built-in Firewire or built- 
 in USB, neither if these are natively bootable, and holding the Option   
 key, or trying to select the HD in Startup Disk won't work. 

 The only natively bootable external option is the external SCSI port,   
 which should be able to boot any bootable System. 

 It's possible to boot OS X from the external Firewire HD by using   
 XPostFacto 4. In this case you'd use any internal HD as an XPF Helper   
 Disk in the XPF Options, and then point the boot at the external   
 Firewire HD. This will start the boot process on the internal HD, and   
 then seamlessly transfer the boot to the external HD after the   
 extensions that load the PCI Firewire card are loaded and the Firewire   
 HD is available. This is your ONLY option to boot externally from   
 unsupported PCI cards. It will also work with ATA cards that lack   
 Apple Boot ROM compatibility, and may work with some USB cards   
 although USB isn't officially supported by XPF because some cards were   
 very problematic. You can only boot OS X using XPF Helper Disk, so a   
 10.4.11 System would be optimal for the external Firewire HD. 

 If you decide to go this route, I can help with any problems off-list. 



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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Bruce Johnson]

On Feb 10, 2013, at 11:27 AM, Click wrote:

 Tnx, Kris.  That's what I was beginning to think.  Seems a little odd given 
 the internal ATA drive(s) boot setup. So I need to look for a SCSI interface 
 external drive.  What version of SCSI would work on the beige G3 built-in 
 port-only v1?  Does it matter what type of drive interface is on the inside 
 of the SCSI external enclosure?  In other words if I could find an ATA or 
 eSATA drive that worked in a SCSI enclosure, do you have any idea if that 
 would work? 

Basically you need a SCSI device that can plug into the Mac's port, either 
natively or via adapters. SCSI 1 will definitely work, and any drive that has a 
50-pin interface will work via adapters. SCSI drives with 68 pin interfaces 
will not, afaik.

-- 
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Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Bill Connelly]

On Feb 10, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Click wrote:

 Tnx, Kris.  That's what I was beginning to think.  Seems a little odd given 
 the internal ATA drive(s) boot setup. So I need to look for a SCSI interface 
 external drive.  What version of SCSI would work on the beige G3 built-in 
 port-only v1?  Does it matter what type of drive interface is on the inside 
 of the SCSI external enclosure?  In other words if I could find an ATA or 
 eSATA drive that worked in a SCSI enclosure, do you have any idea if that 
 would work?  
 
 My particular need is to have a backup drive to native boot into OS 9 to 
 continue using some critical apps that were dropped by the vendor when OS X 
 came about.  Classic on my Mac minis Tiger doesn't fully work for one of the 
 apps, after MUCH experimenting.
 

Even though the OP says Backup Drive, I think he could also use an internal 
partitioned drive that has Classic OS 9.1 on one partition for his purpose, 
then use option key on Startup.

I don't think he means a drive that he can use as a external backup for his 
OSs, Apps or Docs.

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Click]

The setup that I tried originally was an 80G drive partitioned into 7G and 
83G on the external FW device. Since the internal ATA drive is only 6G, 
this allowed me to backup the internal ATA drive completely to that first 
partition.  My intent was that I would also be able to use this external 7G 
partition as a complete backup for the internal ATA drive.  Since the beige 
G3 won't boot from FW, then I need to reconsider.

So I guess it'll be a SCSI-1 device (how can I tell from the ebay listings) 
or install a second ATA drive into the beige.  Fortunately the beige 
desktop has the later ROM which allows for a slave device on the cable.  I 
was just hoping not to add any more power usage strain on that feeble old 
150W internal power supply.

Only remaining question, then,  is how to tell if a hard drive or HD 
enclosure is compatible with the beige port?  What spec do I need to ask 
about before I purchase?  It looks like there's quite a variety of SCSI 
interfaces and protocols out there to my uneducated eye, at least.

On Sunday, February 10, 2013 11:17:50 AM UTC-8, billycarmacs wrote:


 On Feb 10, 2013, at 1:27 PM, Click wrote: 

  Tnx, Kris.  That's what I was beginning to think.  Seems a little odd 
 given the internal ATA drive(s) boot setup. So I need to look for a SCSI 
 interface external drive.  What version of SCSI would work on the beige G3 
 built-in port-only v1?  Does it matter what type of drive interface is on 
 the inside of the SCSI external enclosure?  In other words if I could find 
 an ATA or eSATA drive that worked in a SCSI enclosure, do you have any idea 
 if that would work?   
  
  My particular need is to have a backup drive to native boot into OS 9 to 
 continue using some critical apps that were dropped by the vendor when OS X 
 came about.  Classic on my Mac minis Tiger doesn't fully work for one of 
 the apps, after MUCH experimenting. 
  

 Even though the OP says Backup Drive, I think he could also use an 
 internal partitioned drive that has Classic OS 9.1 on one partition for his 
 purpose, then use option key on Startup. 

 I don't think he means a drive that he can use as a external backup for 
 his OSs, Apps or Docs. 



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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Alex Sciortino]

Try a IDE SCSI adapter. I am sure that it is a standard IDE drive in a FireWire 
to IDE case. 

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Bill Connelly]

On Feb 10, 2013, at 3:08 PM, Click wrote:

 The setup that I tried originally was an 80G drive partitioned into 7G and 
 83G on the external FW device. Since the internal ATA drive is only 6G, this 
 allowed me to backup the internal ATA drive completely to that first 
 partition.  My intent was that I would also be able to use this external 7G 
 partition as a complete backup for the internal ATA drive.  Since the beige 
 G3 won't boot from FW, then I need to reconsider.
 

I would buy a larger internal ATA drive, making sure not to exceed the size for 
a beige if there is such a limitation. Replace the 6GB one. They are cheaper 
and larger capacities than SCSI.

Then partition it into 2+ partitions, one dedicated to OS 9.

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Kris Tilford]

On Feb 10, 2013, at 4:05 PM, Bill Connelly wrote:


Since the beige G3 won't boot from FW, then I need to reconsider.


You can boot OS X from the FW drive using xPostFacto.

I'd install 10.4.11 onto the 73GB partition, and then use XPF 4 (it's  
carbon and runs in both OS 9  OS X) from your OS 9 internal HD.


Alternately, remove the 80GB HD from the FW enclosure and install it  
into the Beige G3.


TMI-Sometimes booting 2nd HDs can be problematic on Beige, there is  
one ROM version (A) that doesn't support any slave drive booting,  
although XPF can boot slave drives on normally early Beige with ROM A  
by using a bootable master HD as an XPF Helper Drive. Later ROM B  C  
can boot both master  slave. You can place newer B  C ROMs into  
older Beige. It's a little complicated because there were three ROMs  
(A, B,  C) and three hardware revisions of Beige (1, 2,  3) and the  
ROMs mostly matched up with the models revisions, but if you really  
wanted the fastest possible Beige you probably wanted an early Rev.1  
model that had an overclockable System bus which was determined by the  
Grackle chip (blue colored chip on motherboard). Most Rev.1's had  
Grackle chips capable of overclocking from 66MHz System Bus to 83MHz,  
but the Rev.23 had slower Grackle chips that were not capable of  
overclocking. The fastest possible Beige would be a Rev.1 Beige w/fast  
Grackle with a version B or C ROM chip so you could boot all internal  
devices and overclock the System bus to 83MHz.


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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[Click]

OK,  Thanks so much to all for the good ideas.   You're a knowledgeable and 
resourceful bunch! I'll post back with what I decided to do.

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Re: Beige G3 Desktop External HD Device Boot

[peterhaas]

 TMI-Sometimes booting 2nd HDs can be problematic on Beige, there is
 one ROM version (A) that doesn't support any slave drive booting,
 although XPF can boot slave drives on normally early Beige with ROM A
 by using a bootable master HD as an XPF Helper Drive. Later ROM B  C
 can boot both master  slave. You can place newer B  C ROMs into
 older Beige. It's a little complicated because there were three ROMs
 (A, B,  C) and three hardware revisions of Beige (1, 2,  3) and the
 ROMs mostly matched up with the models revisions, but if you really
 wanted the fastest possible Beige you probably wanted an early Rev.1
 model that had an overclockable System bus which was determined by the
 Grackle chip (blue colored chip on motherboard). Most Rev.1's had
 Grackle chips capable of overclocking from 66MHz System Bus to 83MHz,
 but the Rev.23 had slower Grackle chips that were not capable of
 overclocking. The fastest possible Beige would be a Rev.1 Beige w/fast
 Grackle with a version B or C ROM chip so you could boot all internal
 devices and overclock the System bus to 83MHz.

Normal builds were Rev. 1A (Rev. 1 mobo and Rev. A ROM), Rev. 2B (Rev. 2
mobo and Rev. B ROM) and Rev. 3C (Rev. 3 mobo and Rev. C ROM).

B and C ROMs provide essentially the same functionality (mainly support
for slave IDE drives).

Rev. C ROMs corrected a bug in the video support which was present in Rev.
A and C ROMs.

The fastest and best configuration would be Rev. 1C.

Occasionally, Apple would respond to a customer complaint for lack of
slave support on Rev. 1A machines, which were usually 266 MHz examples, by
supplying a Rev. B ROM on an exchange basis.

Machines with Rev. A ROMs which also have a factory Zip drive will have a
SCSI Zip, which is why the Beige PSUs have BOTH a standard Molex and a
miniature Molex power connector. The SCSI Zips required the miniature
connector; the IDE Zips required the standard connector.

The early Beiges were really a perfect storm: Apple initially couldn't
figure out how to properly support slave drives, and Iomega initially
couldn't figure out how to make its Zip drives work as slaves. So, there
was some overlap between the availability of slave support from Apple, and
the necessity for SCSI Zips.

Even after slave support was available from Apple, Apple only provided
master cables for the hard drive bus.

At one point some years ago, my company manufactured combo master and
slave hard drive bus cables. Quite a number were sold. The solutions for
Mini Tower, Desktop and All-in-One combo master/slave hard drive cables
were quite different.

Every one of my cables were tested and passed at UATA/33 (33 MB/sec), even
though the Beige IDE buses were limited to 16.67 MB/sec by the host
adapter chip.


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Specs on a Borderline 23 Apple Cinema DIsplay HD

[Bill Connelly]

Can anyone tell me more (tonight hopefully), about this 23 Apple Cinema 
Display HD?
Identifiers: Aluminum - M9178LL/A - A1082

In particular, is it from the later made models that had 700:1 contrast ratio, 
as opposed to the early ones that had 400:1?

Here are some research sites:

This site: http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html/ with Serial 
number: 2A6311H8UG0 shows it was made in August 2006, Production Week 31.

This other site states Apple changed the specs on August 7, 2006: 
http://www.everymac.com/monitors/apple/studio_cinema/specs/apple_cinema_display_23.html,
 from 400:1 to 700:1 for the 23 display.

Do you know if this particular display has this improved quality?

I have seen some Apple Support Group discussion on the subject, but could not 
draw a favorable conclusion.

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Update (solution) to HD boot problem

[Don Wakefield]

We have successfully re-united my eMac 125 with its external HD and Leopard OS. 

After many emails to the manufacturers, and several purchases and returns, it 
turns out that even when the box and literature say the drive enclosure will go 
back to 10.2 and that the case claims to sport Firewire 400 capabilities, that 
is NOT enough. 

Many of the units on the shelves today have been re-programmed to enable them 
to access the larger 3 and 4 TB HDs. When this takes place, booting with 
Firewire is removed in favor of booting via USB. Since machines of similar age 
or older to my eMac cannot boot with USB, putting my bare HD into a case like 
that was suiside. I finally discovered that you could request the roms in the 
case to be re-flashed down to the old level (which OWC thankfully did it for 
free) which allowed the drive to work like a charm. 

If you are replacing a Firewire HD for a relic like I did, be sure to challenge 
the salesman to ensure that it will be bootable with Firewire and that it's 
firmware is old school. If it has the new roms, it will be fine for storage 
of data but it not boot.

Thanks for all of your input.

Don Wakefield

DTPetc! (DeskTop Productions et cetera!)

Ballwin, Missouri, USA

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Re: Update (solution) to HD boot problem

[Charles Lenington]

On 8/1/12 10:35 AM, Don Wakefield wrote:

We have successfully re-united my eMac 125 with its external HD and
Leopard OS.

After many emails to the manufacturers, and several purchases and
returns, it turns out that even when the box and literature say the


Maybe that was the problem w/ a tsstcorp DVDR DL and my MDD's and C2D 
mini. The Pioneer 219l bought in March died and 3 ups trips later they 
found another 219. TSST drives would work fine in shop but not after 
arrival at my house.


Side note: Thank you OWC for bearing with me, to resolve issue.
I'll order again soon.

Charles Lenington

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Testing HD Performance RAM In MDD Under X.4 or X.5

[gifutiger]

Greetings,

I recommend using applejack however be sure that when you do the install that 
you CHECK the box that says install memory test.

Cheers

Harry

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Testing HD Performance RAM In MDD Under X.4 or X.5

[t...@prismnet.com]

What do folks recommend to use to test RAM for defects in an MDD under
10.4 or 10.5.   I guess I could boot into 9.2 and use the old standby,
RAMometer.

Also, what do folks recommend to test hard disk performance?

I have here an MDD which has been working mostly trouble-free for
years with 1.5 GB of RAM.   I have a .5GB stick on hand I pulled from
a G4 Mini and I'd like to add it, but I'm concerned that I'll screw up
a good thing.  No reason for my suspicion, just paranoia.  So I want
to test the RAM after I add the odd stick.

Also, after a hard drive failure, I've finally installed a 6880M in
the machine, and configured it to boot off of mirrored volumes in OS9
and 10.4 and 10.5.   I'd like to compare the disk performance I'm
getting now, mirrored volumes on a 6880M, to what I was getting off of
singleton drives on the built-in bus.

If I've taken a small performance hit, it's worth it for the
redundancy.  But I had to jump through enough installation hoops to
get this working, that I want to confirm that it's not running at
something like 25% of what a drive on the built-in would run at.   I
haven't noticed any substantial performance hit, so it's probably
fine, but numbers are reassuring.

Thanks,

Jeff Walther

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Re: Testing HD Performance RAM In MDD Under X.4 or X.5

[JOHN CARMONNE]

On Jul 15, 2012, at 7:37 PM, t...@prismnet.com wrote:


What do folks recommend to use to test RAM for defects in an MDD under
10.4 or 10.5.   I guess I could boot into 9.2 and use the old standby,
RAMometer.






I have here an MDD which has been working mostly trouble-free for
years with 1.5 GB of RAM.   I have a .5GB stick on hand I pulled from
a G4 Mini and I'd like to add it, but I'm concerned that I'll screw up
a good thing.  No reason for my suspicion, just paranoia.  So I want
to test the RAM after I add the odd stick.



MemTest is free and works best for me.


Also, after a hard drive failure, I've finally installed a 6880M in
the machine, and configured it to boot off of mirrored volumes in OS9
and 10.4 and 10.5.   I'd like to compare the disk performance I'm
getting now, mirrored volumes on a 6880M, to what I was getting off of
singleton drives on the built-in bus.



Drive Genius is my favorite for this and also DiskWarrior can find  
errors.



If I've taken a small performance hit, it's worth it for the
redundancy.  But I had to jump through enough installation hoops to
get this working, that I want to confirm that it's not running at
something like 25% of what a drive on the built-in would run at.   I
haven't noticed any substantial performance hit, so it's probably
fine, but numbers are reassuring.



I use Carbon Copy Cloner's timer to check drive speeds between various  
ports.




Thanks,

Jeff Walther





John Carmonne
Placentia CA 92870
From iMac Core Duo 2.0








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Re: Testing HD Performance RAM In MDD Under X.4 or X.5

[Peter Devlin]

On 16/07/2012 03:37, t...@prismnet.com t...@prismnet.com wrote:

 What do folks recommend to use to test RAM for defects in an MDD under
 10.4 or 10.5.   I guess I could boot into 9.2 and use the old standby,
 RAMometer.

I use Memtest on my dual 1.25 MDD with 2 GB of ram and 10.5.8 - although
the 2 GB is slightly more than my Memtest can cope with it's easy to test 1
GB at a time - takes about 2 hours for a full test.

Pete


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Re: HD Boot Problem

[Dan]

At 4:07 PM -0700 7/12/2012, Don Wakefield wrote:
After a power outage, my external 500 gig Firewire Verbatim HD, 
(which functioned as my boot drive for my eMac,) refused to power 
on. I took the unit to MacHQ (a nearby Mac Repair Business) and they 
pulled the Samsung drive out of the Verbatim enclosure and installed 
it into a Macally enclosure. When I connected it to my network, the 
two 250 gig partitions appeared on the desktop as expected. 1 icon 
of my OS and 1 icon of the generic Firewire HD graphic. Since I 
wanted that unit to function again as my startup disk, I selected it 
in the startup menu.  Everything seemed correct. Unfortunately, the 
unit would not start the Mac. It clearly tried to be the startup 
disk, but at some point in the procedure the Mac reverts to its 
internal smaller, older System on the internal HD.


What did Disk Utility say when you ran a Repair Disk on the drive?

When I connected it to my network... huh?  Explain please.  Exactly 
how have you connected the drive to your Mac?


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: HD Boot Problem

[Valter Prahlad]

Il giorno 13-07-2012 1:07, Don Wakefield ha scritto:

 they pulled the Samsung drive out
 of the Verbatim enclosure and installed it into a Macally enclosure.
 [...]
 Unfortunately, the unit would not start the Mac.

I'm not a hardware expert, but I seem to remember some external enclosures
(maybe due to their different internal chips) aren't capable of booting Mac
OSX.
Maybe that Macally one is such case: working fine, but no boot.

You may want to check the Carbon Copy Cloner (CCC) help section, there are
several post mentioning hard disks (in)compatibility with Macs:
http://help.bombich.com/home
(even if you're not using CCC)

For example, Western Digital external HDs are known for having some trouble
with Macs.

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HD Boot Problem

[Don Wakefield]

After a power outage, my external 500 gig Firewire Verbatim HD, (which 
functioned as my boot drive for my eMac,) refused to power on. I took the unit 
to MacHQ (a nearby Mac Repair Business) and they pulled the Samsung drive out 
of the Verbatim enclosure and installed it into a Macally enclosure. When I 
connected it to my network, the two 250 gig partitions appeared on the desktop 
as expected. 1 icon of my OS and 1 icon of the generic Firewire HD graphic. 
Since I wanted that unit to function again as my startup disk, I selected it in 
the startup menu.  Everything seemed correct. Unfortunately, the unit would not 
start the Mac. It clearly tried to be the startup disk, but at some point in 
the procedure the Mac reverts to its internal smaller, older System on the 
internal HD. 

MacHQ suggested that the unit may have suffered some additional damage to the 
file system when the power went off and recommended that I should Archive and 
install a new System from my Leopard DVD to comb out any bugs. After doing 
that, unfortunately there was no change.  Even when selected as startup, the 
Macally external will grind a short while but the internal HD eventually wins 
out and that becomes the system of record every time. 

I am at a loss. MacHQ is not sure, but postulated that there could be some 
conflict with the new drive since it included eSATA capabilities that might 
hinder the Firewire functioning. Try as I might, I can't get my head around 
that concept. The fact is that the disk booted when it was in the other 
Verbatim enclosure, the data on the disk all seems to be intact, the system is 
spanking new,  and Disk Util sees the drive as bootable and perhaps most 
importantly, Macally itself states on the info sheet that it is compatible all 
the way back to 10.2.8 thru 10.6. 

What ideas do any of you have as to what would cause the Leopard OS external HD 
to be unable to boot the eMac like it did before? 

Don Wakefield


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Re: HD Boot Problem

[Kris Tilford]

On Jul 12, 2012, at 6:07 PM, Don Wakefield wrote:

What ideas do any of you have as to what would cause the Leopard OS  
external HD to be unable to boot the eMac like it did before?


Select the Firewire HD partition in Startup Disk, then hold the Cmd-v  
keys to initiate the verbose boot dialog and see what's going on.


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Re: HD remounts and Ipod Touch issues

[JohnV]

I think I;m starting to sort this out, if not actually SLOVE it,

the HD seems to have a bad volume header... other drives are working.

the Seagate 1T that dropped off came back with a nudge from MOUNT in  
Disk Utilities and shows up fine on reboots




one iPod Touch wouldn't  show up, while another one did

Now BOTH are working fine... maybe one was so far discharged it  
wouldn;t function until it got  restored to some level?










On 4/26/12 12:50 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:33 PM, JohnV wrote:


When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to
sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?


You've got a USB issue here. First your iPod Touch isn't  
recognized, now
you're saying your HDs are drop off the screen which isn't  
supposed to
happen ever, and both are USB related. You've got a bigger  
problem than

a HD sleep issue because your iPod is definitely wrong behavior for
certain, and it has nothing to do with software on your G5, it's  
a pure

hardware issue.

You should look in your UtilityConsole logs for error messages  
related

to USB. It's likely you'll see error messages. If your USB ports are
bad, you may need to purchase a USB PCI card.


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Re: HD remounts and Ipod Touch issues

[Bruce Johnson]

On Apr 27, 2012, at 11:04 AM, JohnV wrote:

 one iPod Touch wouldn't  show up, while another one did
 
 Now BOTH are working fine... maybe one was so far discharged it wouldn;t 
 function until it got  restored to some level?
 


That's a possibility; I know that my MacBook Pro won't boot up immediately if 
the battery's drained too much...sure gave me a scare the first time I ran into 
that one!
-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: HD remounts

[Charles Lenington]

On 4/26/12 12:50 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:33 PM, JohnV wrote:


When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to
sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?


You've got a USB issue here. First your iPod Touch isn't recognized, now
you're saying your HDs are drop off the screen which isn't supposed to
happen ever, and both are USB related. You've got a bigger problem than
a HD sleep issue because your iPod is definitely wrong behavior for
certain, and it has nothing to do with software on your G5, it's a pure
hardware issue.

You should look in your UtilityConsole logs for error messages related
to USB. It's likely you'll see error messages. If your USB ports are
bad, you may need to purchase a USB PCI card.

You might try asking on   apple-iph...@yahoogroups.com , maybe yhey have 
ideas also.


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Re: HD remounts

[mark ray]

Had a similar problem with an iMac at work and it also would go to sleep at 
very spontaneous moments, typing, drawing, whatever it didn't matter just went 
to sleep, hit any key and it would come back. When the HD icon disappeared 
off the desktop, it would cause the drive to disappear from Disk Utilities as 
well, I would wait a few minutes and it would re-mount itself. So I do a 
reinstall of the system (basically a Snow Leopard version of archive and 
install). So far that seems to have taken care of both issues.

And for those about to ask yes I checked and reset all the energy and screen 
saver settings, Dumped appropriate prefs and so on before the reinstall.


On Apr 26, 2012, at 2:20 AM, Charles Lenington wrote:

 On 4/26/12 12:50 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:
 On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:33 PM, JohnV wrote:
 
 When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to
 sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?
 
 You've got a USB issue here. First your iPod Touch isn't recognized, now
 you're saying your HDs are drop off the screen which isn't supposed to
 happen ever, and both are USB related. You've got a bigger problem than
 a HD sleep issue because your iPod is definitely wrong behavior for
 certain, and it has nothing to do with software on your G5, it's a pure
 hardware issue.
 
 You should look in your UtilityConsole logs for error messages related
 to USB. It's likely you'll see error messages. If your USB ports are
 bad, you may need to purchase a USB PCI card.
 
 You might try asking on   apple-iph...@yahoogroups.com , maybe yhey have 
 ideas also.
 
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HD remounts

[JohnV]

When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to  
sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?

John V

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Re: HD remounts

[Bruce Johnson]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 4:33 PM, JohnV wrote:

 When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to sleep) 
 how does one get it to re-mount?
 John V

There may be utilities to do this, but you can fire up Disk Utility, select it 
and select 'Mount' in the top bar.

You can also just unplug it and plug it back in if that's handy.

Sometimes using powered USB hubs keeps sleepy disks awake.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: HD remounts

[JohnV]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 8:07 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Apr 25, 2012, at 4:33 PM, JohnV wrote:

When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going  
to sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?

John V


There may be utilities to do this, but you can fire up Disk  
Utility, select it and select 'Mount' in the top bar.


Ignorance is NOT bliss.. so simple thank you

and it shows INVALID VOLUME HEADER

hmmnnn...



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Re: HD remounts

[Dan]

At 7:33 PM -0400 4/25/2012, JohnV wrote:
When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to 
sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?


When a drive goes to sleep, the volume icons DO NOT drop off the screen.

If the volume icons went away without you intentionally dismounting 
them, then you have some sort of failure occurring.


At 8:47 PM -0400 4/25/2012, JohnV wrote:

and it shows INVALID VOLUME HEADER

hmmnnn...


Ayup.  A failure.  Check your system.log for errors, to determine the 
exact fault.


Make sure the cables are properly connected, then try doing a Repair 
Disk with Disk Utility.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: HD remounts

[Kris Tilford]

On Apr 25, 2012, at 6:33 PM, JohnV wrote:

When an external HD drops off the screen (presumably after going to  
sleep) how does one get it to re-mount?


You've got a USB issue here. First your iPod Touch isn't recognized,  
now you're saying your HDs are drop off the screen which isn't  
supposed to happen ever, and both are USB related. You've got a bigger  
problem than a HD sleep issue because your iPod is definitely wrong  
behavior for certain, and it has nothing to do with software on your  
G5, it's a pure hardware issue.


You should look in your UtilityConsole logs for error messages  
related to USB. It's likely you'll see error messages. If your USB  
ports are bad, you may need to purchase a USB PCI card.


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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

On Mar 18, 2012, at 12:45 PM, gifutiger wrote:


John,

If it is your Spotlight then click on the Spy Glass in the  
upper right corner and you should see a message that Spotlight is  
indexing your system. If you have more than one drive then the  
message will say which drive is being indexed.


This is going on constantly, for days (I may have just not paid  
attention before, maybe it;s new), and when I check SPOTLIGHT it  
merely hows a blue bar with a blank white window.


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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Paul Cefola]

Does such constant HD activity happen with external HD's attached to 
Windows laptops?


Dr. Paul J. Cefola
Adjunct Professor, Dept. Of Mechanical and Aerospace Engineering, University at 
Buffalo (SUNY)
Consultant in Aerospace Systems, Spaceflight Mechanics,  Astrodynamics
508-696-1884 (Vineyard Haven MA home phone)
978-201-1393 (cell)

paulc...@buffalo.edu
paul.cef...@gmail.com


On 3/19/2012 10:23 AM, JohnV wrote:


On Mar 18, 2012, at 12:45 PM, gifutiger wrote:


John,

If it is your Spotlight then click on the Spy Glass in the upper 
right corner and you should see a message that Spotlight is 
indexing your system. If you have more than one drive then the 
message will say which drive is being indexed.


This is going on constantly, for days (I may have just not paid 
attention before, maybe it;s new), and when I check SPOTLIGHT it 
merely hows a blue bar with a blank white window.




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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Paul Cefola wrote:

Does such constant HD activity happen with external HD's attached  
to Windows laptops?


no idea. However this machine -IS- usually networked with the iMAC (I. 
83GHz INtel Core Duo   10.6.8)  and both have several HD's attached.





If it is your Spotlight then click on the Spy Glass in the  
upper right corner and you should see a message that Spotlight  
is indexing your system. If you have more than one drive then the  
message will say which drive is being indexed.


This is going on constantly, for days (I may have just not paid  
attention before, maybe it;s new), and when I check SPOTLIGHT it  
merely hows a blue bar with a blank white window.





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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 8:27 AM, JohnV wrote:

 On Mar 19, 2012, at 11:08 AM, Paul Cefola wrote:
 
 Does such constant HD activity happen with external HD's attached to Windows 
 laptops?
 
 no idea. However this machine -IS- usually networked with the iMAC (I.83GHz 
 INtel Core Duo   10.6.8)  and both have several HD's attached.

It sounds as though your spotlight indexes are corrupt. 

Here's a good site for fixing problems like that:

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html

Turning off Spotlight can be done, but then it disables the Finder's Find 
command as well.

As Dan mentioned, there;s been numerous discussions of Spotlight in this list, 
peruse the archives.

I've found that the main thing with Spotlight index rebuilding is to leave the 
computer completely alone while it does this; start the rebuild before you go 
to bed and let it run overnight. This results in a clean rebuild of the index 
and metadata database, so that it's less likely to get in your way while you're 
using the system.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:


It sounds as though your spotlight indexes are corrupt.
Turning off Spotlight can be done, but then it disables the  
Finder's Find command as well.


 I wouldn;t think I'd WANT to disable SPOTLIGHT if it can work right.



As Dan mentioned, there;s been numerous discussions of Spotlight in  
this list, peruse the archives.


Excellent, I haven;t looked before, could you point me there?



I've found that the main thing with Spotlight index rebuilding is  
to leave the computer completely alone while it does this; start  
the rebuild before you go to bed and let it run overnight. This  
results in a clean rebuild of the index and metadata database, so  
that it's less likely to get in your way while you're using the  
system.


'rebuild spotlight' ... is this in the archives, or is it something I  
can just ask the system to do under UTILITIES or somesuch?


thanks again
jv


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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 10:35 AM, JohnV wrote:

 
 On Mar 19, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote:
 
 It sounds as though your spotlight indexes are corrupt.
 Turning off Spotlight can be done, but then it disables the Finder's Find 
 command as well.
 
 I wouldn;t think I'd WANT to disable SPOTLIGHT if it can work right.
 
 
 
 As Dan mentioned, there;s been numerous discussions of Spotlight in this 
 list, peruse the archives.
 
 Excellent, I haven;t looked before, could you point me there?

Go to  groups.google.com and in the advanced search put 
http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list; in the 'group to search' box, and 
search for 'rebuild spotlight index'


 
 
 
 I've found that the main thing with Spotlight index rebuilding is to leave 
 the computer completely alone while it does this; start the rebuild before 
 you go to bed and let it run overnight. This results in a clean rebuild of 
 the index and metadata database, so that it's less likely to get in your way 
 while you're using the system.
 
 'rebuild spotlight' ... is this in the archives, or is it something I can 
 just ask the system to do under UTILITIES or somesuch?

The link I sent tells you exactly how to do it, as will the group archives.

-- 
Bruce Johnson
University of Arizona
College of Pharmacy
Information Technology Group

Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs


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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote


It sounds as though your spotlight indexes are corrupt.

Here's a good site for fixing problems like that:

http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html


this worked great... or seems to be in the process of doing so.
Inside the SPOTLIGHT preferences I 'prevented' all the attached and  
internal drives, then undid that. It is now indexing, the SPOTLIGHT  
icon is active, and when I click on that icon  it indeed tells me  
it's doing its job. My FINDER results for searching for certain files  
has been Hugely Slow and flakey. Now I think I know why.


Thanks for this.
JV



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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Dan]

At 10:26 AM -0700 3/19/2012, Bruce Johnson wrote:
I've found that the main thing with Spotlight index rebuilding is to 
leave the computer completely alone while it does this; start the 
rebuild before you go to bed and let it run overnight. This results 
in a clean rebuild of the index and metadata database, so that it's 
less likely to get in your way while you're using the system.


Yea.  What Bruce said.  Snow Leopard and newer are a bit more 
tolerant to the indexiamos interruptous.  Tiger is very intolerant. 
Set yer machine to not sleep that night, to let the index job run to 
completion.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Dan]

At 2:25 PM -0400 3/19/2012, JohnV wrote:

On Mar 19, 2012, at 1:26 PM, Bruce Johnson wrote

It sounds as though your spotlight indexes are corrupt.
Here's a good site for fixing problems like that:
http://www.thexlab.com/faqs/stopspotlightindex.html


this worked great... or seems to be in the process of doing so.
Inside the SPOTLIGHT preferences I 'prevented' all the attached and 
internal drives, then undid that. It is now indexing, the SPOTLIGHT 
icon is active, and when I click on that icon  it indeed tells me 
it's doing its job. My FINDER results for searching for certain 
files has been Hugely Slow and flakey. Now I think I know why.


Ok.  That may work, but it might not.  Dragging a volume into the 
Splotchlight system preferences creates a filter that prevents those 
items from being returned in results.  It *does not* physically erase 
a corrupted index.


So, if that doesn't work, use the mdutil directly, as described in 
that article and the various threads on this list.  (which would be 
the point of me suggesting you check our archives, in the first 
place).


- Dan.
--
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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

On Mar 19, 2012, at 5:29 PM, Dan wrote:


this worked great... or seems to be in the process of doing so.
Inside the SPOTLIGHT preferences I 'prevented' all the attached  
and internal drives, then undid that. It is now indexing, the  
SPOTLIGHT icon is active, and when I click on that icon  it indeed  
tells me it's doing its job. My FINDER results for searching for  
certain files has been Hugely Slow and flakey. Now I think I know  
why.


Ok.  That may work, but it might not.  Dragging a volume into the  
Splotchlight system preferences creates a filter that prevents  
those items from being returned in results.  It *does not*  
physically erase a corrupted index.


hmmnn...




So, if that doesn't work, use the mdutil directly, as described in  
that article and the various threads on this list.  (which would be  
the point of me suggesting you check our archives, in the first  
place).


I got right at the archives and was going through the descriptions of  
both that and other references to working this through the command- 
line approach (one that always gets my fear factor working!).  So far  
the system seems to be seriously working on doing things right. The  
same activity on the drives, but the SPOTLIGHT icon is ALWAYS showing  
that it knows what;s happening. this NEVER happened before.


Fingers Crossed.

JV



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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[gifutiger]

John,

If it is your Spotlight then click on the Spy Glass in the upper right 
corner and you should see a message that Spotlight is indexing your 
system. If you have more than one drive then the message will say which 
drive is being indexed.

Cheers

Harry
San Jose, Ca

On Saturday, March 17, 2012 8:16:08 PM UTC-7, JohnV wrote:

 When I have the system on, why would the HD be constantly quietly  
 chattering away to itself?
   It'll pause and be quiet for 10 sec or so and then start up again.


 G5 Dual 1.8 GHz
 2GB SDRAM
 10.4.11

 RUNNING APPS:
 MAIL
 CALENDAR
 TEXT EDIT
 APPLEWORKS 6
 ITUNES 8.2.1



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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Dan]

At 1:20 AM -0400 3/18/2012, JohnV wrote:

mdimport seems to be the one...


Ok.  Give it time.  Once its done the indexing, it should go away. 
If it persists for more than a few hours, then it might be stuck or 
the index might be corrupted.


Spotlight issues have been covered in quite a few threads on this 
list.  Check the archives.  You'll find directions on using mdutil to 
erase the index and restart it.


- Dan.
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G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

When I have the system on, why would the HD be constantly quietly  
chattering away to itself?

 It'll pause and be quiet for 10 sec or so and then start up again.


G5 Dual 1.8 GHz
2GB SDRAM
10.4.11

RUNNING APPS:
MAIL
CALENDAR
TEXT EDIT
APPLEWORKS 6
ITUNES 8.2.1



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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Bruce Johnson]

On Mar 17, 2012, at 8:16 PM, JohnV wrote:

 When I have the system on, why would the HD be constantly quietly chattering 
 away to itself?
 It'll pause and be quiet for 10 sec or so and then start up again.

Probably Spotlight doing it's thing. Fire up Activity monitor and watch what's 
at the top of the activity list during quiet times, nbet it's something called 
'mdworker', which is the Spotlight maintenance process.
-- 
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD

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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[Dan]

At 11:16 PM -0400 3/17/2012, JohnV wrote:

[G5 Dual 1.8 GHz 2GB SDRAM 10.4.11]

When I have the system on, why would the HD be constantly quietly 
chattering away to itself?

It'll pause and be quiet for 10 sec or so and then start up again.
RUNNING APPS: MAIL CALENDAR TEXT EDIT APPLEWORKS 6 ITUNES 8.2.1


Probably Spotlight's indexing processes.  They do their work at low 
priority, during idle times.


Launch Activity Monitor.  Set it to update less frequently.  View all 
processes.  Sort by %cpu, in descending order.  Give it about 15 secs 
to update a couple of times, and average out the numbers.  Then take 
note of the top processes.


The Spotlight processes go by names like mds and mdimport and 
mdworker etc.


- Dan.
--
- Psychoceramic Emeritus; South Jersey, USA, Earth.

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Re: G5 Constant HD activity

[JohnV]

mdimport seems to be the one...


thanks.



On Mar 18, 2012, at 12:03 AM, Bruce Johnson wrote:



On Mar 17, 2012, at 8:16 PM, JohnV wrote:

When I have the system on, why would the HD be constantly quietly  
chattering away to itself?

It'll pause and be quiet for 10 sec or so and then start up again.


Probably Spotlight doing it's thing. Fire up Activity monitor and  
watch what's at the top of the activity list during quiet times,  
nbet it's something called 'mdworker', which is the Spotlight  
maintenance process.

--
Bruce Johnson

Wherever you go, there you are B. Banzai,  PhD

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group/g3-5-list


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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:

 
 I CAN NOT DUPLICATE THIS USING:
 Portable:
   Capacity:465.76 GB
   Removable Media:Yes
   Detachable Drive:Yes
   BSD Name:disk2
   Version:1.30
   Bus Power (mA):500
   Speed:Up to 12 Mb/sec
   Manufacturer:Seagate
   OS9 Drivers:No
   Product ID:0x2300
   Serial Number:2GH23S8C
   S.M.A.R.T. status:Not Supported
   Vendor ID:0x0bc2
   Volumes:
 XHD-1 500Mb:
   Capacity:465.64 GB
   Available:430.56 GB
   Writable:Yes
   File System:Journaled HFS+
   BSD Name:disk2s3
   Mount Point:/Volumes/XHD-1 500Mb
 

If you're having trouble installing 10.5 using a G4 machine keep in mind the 
processor speed has to be minimum 867MHz I don't think I saw mention of the G4 
specs of your machine. So you can install it using any G4 867MHz and up and all 
Intel's up to and including the Core 2 Duo's  and then it will boot the slower 
G4's also the way t get it on the internal drive is with Carbon Copy Cloner. 
That is the way to get systems on machines that otherwise can't boot the 
install disc's. I have a Mac Pro that has 10.5.8, 10.6.8 and 10.7.2. I had to 
use CCC to get the 10.5.8 on it because it won't boot the 10.5 installer.

 


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacBook Pro i7






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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[JohnCarmonne]

On Mar 15, 2012, at 6:44 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:
 NOT WHAT DU SAID!
 
 
 I CAN NOT DUPLICATE THIS USING:
 Portable:
   Capacity:465.76 GB
   Removable Media:Yes
   Detachable Drive:Yes
   BSD Name:disk2
   Version:1.30
   Bus Power (mA):500
   Speed:Up to 12 Mb/sec
   Manufacturer:Seagate
   OS9 Drivers:No
   Product ID:0x2300
   Serial Number:2GH23S8C
   S.M.A.R.T. status:Not Supported
   Vendor ID:0x0bc2
   Volumes:
 XHD-1 500Mb:
   Capacity:465.64 GB
   Available:430.56 GB
   Writable:Yes
   File System:Journaled HFS+
   BSD Name:disk2s3
   Mount Point:/Volumes/XHD-1 500Mb
 

Back to the beginning, If you want to boot a PPC with OS9.2.2, Tiger 10.4.11 
and Leopard 10.5.8 Your HDD has to be formatted Apple Partition Map.
The Intel'
s will also boot with APM, Apple recommends GUID but it's not required . The 
only time you will run into the GUID requirement is running Lion, AFAIK



John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem






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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[David W. Morris]

On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:


On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:07 PM, JohnCarmonne wrote:


PPC will not boot a GUID HDD AFAIK.


You're correct, the partition map needs to be Apple Partition Map  
which CAN boot both Intel  PPC Macs.




Might this correct a WD Passport external hard drive so it could work  
on both an Intel and G4 Mac's, if I put it on the Intel Mac and  
reformat with an Apple Partition Map?


I have never been able to use my WD Passport external USB hard drive  
with any of my G4  G5 Mac's.


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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[John Carmonne]

On Mar 14, 2012, at 7:41 PM, David W. Morris wrote:

 
 On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:
 
 On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:07 PM, JohnCarmonne wrote:
 
 PPC will not boot a GUID HDD AFAIK.
 
 You're correct, the partition map needs to be Apple Partition Map which CAN 
 boot both Intel  PPC Macs.
 
 
 Might this correct a WD Passport external hard drive so it could work on both 
 an Intel and G4 Mac's, if I put it on the Intel Mac and reformat with an 
 Apple Partition Map?
 
 I have never been able to use my WD Passport external USB hard drive with any 
 of my G4  G5 Mac's.
 

The Apple Partition Map will work with PPC and Intel Macs, the restriction 
comes when you try to install Lion on the drive with APM, it requires the GUID 
format.
I even was able to boot my MBP Core i7 with a copy of Leopard on an external 
HDD and APM. This method allows different systems on one drive, handy for 
testing
purposes. I have had trouble getting the format changed on the WD external 
drives you may have to do it multiple times till it sticks. It's not the HDD, 
it's the board
in the enclosure.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacBook Pro i7






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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[Jonas Lopez]

REPLY IN CAPS BELOW

--- On Thu, 3/15/12, John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com wrote:

From: John Carmonne carmo...@aol.com
Subject: Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5
To: g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
Date: Thursday, March 15, 2012, 5:26 PM


On Mar 14, 2012, at 7:41 PM, David W. Morris wrote:
 On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:37 PM, Kris Tilford wrote:
 On Mar 14, 2012, at 12:07 PM, JohnCarmonne wrote:
 
 PPC will not boot a GUID HDD AFAIK.
 
 You're correct, the partition map needs to be Apple Partition Map which CAN 
 boot both Intel  PPC Macs.

NOT WHAT INSTALLER SAID -- GUID FOR INTEL  ---   APM FOR PPC
 
The Apple Partition Map will work with PPC and Intel Macs,  NOT WHAT DU SAID!

the restriction comes when you try to install Lion on the drive with APM, it 
requires the GUID format.

OK

I even was able to boot my MBP Core i7 with a copy of Leopard on an external 
HDD and APM. This method allows different systems on one drive, handy for 
testing purposes. 

I CAN NOT DUPLICATE THIS USING:
Portable:
  Capacity:    465.76 GB
  Removable Media:    Yes
  Detachable Drive:    Yes
  BSD Name:    disk2
  Version:    1.30
  Bus Power (mA):    500
  Speed:    Up to 12 Mb/sec
  Manufacturer:    Seagate
  OS9 Drivers:    No
  Product ID:    0x2300
  Serial Number:    2GH23S8C
  S.M.A.R.T. status:    Not Supported
  Vendor ID:    0x0bc2
  Volumes:
XHD-1 500Mb:
  Capacity:    465.64 GB
  Available:    430.56 GB
  Writable:    Yes
  File System:    Journaled HFS+
  BSD Name:    disk2s3
  Mount Point:    /Volumes/XHD-1 500Mb

JML

John Carmonne

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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[Kris Tilford]

On Mar 13, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:


G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5


Yes, this is true.

Only a very few of the USB 1.1 Macs can boot from USB, only the  
colored iMacs  iBooks, and none of the G4's can boot from USB  
AFAIK. You'll need an external enclosure with both USB 2.0  Firewire,  
and boot the G4 from Firewire. If your Intel MacBook has Firewire, you  
could get by with Firewire only, otherwise you'll need both USB2   
Firewire.


Leopard 10.5 is the only version of OS X that can boot both PPC Macs   
Intel Macs. You must format the HD as GUID, and it will boot both PPC  
 Intel Macs.


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Re: G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5

[JohnCarmonne]

On Mar 14, 2012, at 2:39 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

 On Mar 13, 2012, at 8:16 PM, Jonas Lopez wrote:
 
 G4 USB external hd will not start up 10.5
 
 Yes, this is true.
 
 Only a very few of the USB 1.1 Macs can boot from USB, only the colored 
 iMacs  iBooks, and none of the G4's can boot from USB AFAIK. You'll need an 
 external enclosure with both USB 2.0  Firewire, and boot the G4 from 
 Firewire. If your Intel MacBook has Firewire, you could get by with Firewire 
 only, otherwise you'll need both USB2  Firewire.

My experience with booting via USB is the external enclosure needs to be AC 
powered, I can boot all my machines G3, G4, and G5 with this method. These 
include G3 iMac, G3 iBook, G4 Cube, G4 MDD, G4 Titanium PB, G4 Aluminum PB. G5 
Power Mac 2.7, The machines that will boot Bus Powered USB are all my Intel's, 
MacBook,  Intel iMac, Mac Pro and Mac Book Pro Core i7.

 Leopard 10.5 is the only version of OS X that can boot both PPC Macs  Intel 
 Macs. You must format the HD as GUID, and it will boot both PPC  Intel Macs.

PPC will not boot a GUID HDD AFAIK.
I have a copy of Leopard 10.5.8 on an external drive with the Apple Partition 
Map that boots G4, G5, plus all my Intel's up to and including my Mac Pro Quad 
Nehalem. I can't boot a PPC machine with a GUID format. The only machine I have 
that seems to insist on GUID is a MacBook Pro Core i7.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
MacBook Pro i7






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