Re: non ECC RAM?

[peterhaas]

> Yes, I try before in a PPC G5 Dual 2.5(this one do not support
> ECC)...somebody from this group time ago send me some INFO about ECC can't
> be mixed with NON ECC, at that time I was wrong about the model of my Dual
> 2.5...the very last PPC Dual Core/Single Pro from 05 support ECC and NON
> ECC but still can't be mixed.

Probably cannot be "mixed" because the "key" on an ECC RAM stick is
different from the "key" on a non-ECC stick.

The "key" on a parity RAM stick is the same as the "key" on a non-parity
stick.

On Macs which support parity (PM 700, PM 950, ANS and possibly others) the
sockets are identical, and the act of plugging-in just one non-parity RAM
stick turns parity checking off for all RAM.

Parity adds one bit for each byte of RAM (IOW, four bits for each quad-byte).

ECC adds, usually, five bits for each parity-checked byte (IOW nine bits
for each quad-byte).

Using a patent issued to my former employer in an earlier lifetime, the
number of additional bits required for full-ECC detection and correction
can be reduced by incorporating the parity bits as part of the ECC
polynomial.

It is no wonder that many machines accept parity and non-parity.

It is also no wonder than ECC machines require ECC only.

It is MUCH too complicated for a machine which was built to a rather low
price-point to accept non-parity RAM, parity RAM or ECC RAM, and then to
automagically select the least common denominator of the three.



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Re: non ECC RAM?

[maggell42]

Yes, I try before in a PPC G5 Dual 2.5(this one do not support  
ECC)...somebody from this group time ago send me some INFO about ECC can't  
be mixed with NON ECC, at that time I was wrong about the model of my Dual  
2.5...the very last PPC Dual Core/Single Pro from 05 support ECC and NON  
ECC but still can't be mixed.


On , John Carmonne  wrote:
Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any problems?  
The ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to keep down the  
cost.



I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.







John Carmonne



Yorba Linda CA



92886 USA



Sent from my MBP













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Re: non ECC RAM?

[peterhaas]

> Uh. Yes. You are right, Tina. I bought the Mac Pro last summer, and
> bumped to 12GB, 3 x 4GB sticks. I was told to remove the 4th small
> stick to improve performance.
>
>> My un-educated internet research revealed that three identical sticks
>> ran faster than two, and four sticks ran inbetween two & three stick
>> speeds. Don't remember the url of the test unfortunately.
>>
>> A Google search for "triple channel ram" returns over 1,000,000 results
>> that seem to say that there is such a thing as triple channel memory, I
>> believe that is what is indicated by the DDR3 designation.

Triple-channel RAM has been available in Hacks for years and years.

The X58 series of mobos is perhaps a representative example.

This ...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813128456

... is Gigabyte's offering (one of them, anyway), and it supports two sets
of three DDR3 RAM sticks for a total of 24 GB.

Of course, an LGA 1366 processor is required.

Best performance is with three or six RAM sticks. Performance suffers with
one, two, four or five sticks.



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Re: non ECC RAM?

[JoeTaxpayer]

Uh. Yes. You are right, Tina. I bought the Mac Pro last summer, and
bumped to 12GB, 3 x 4GB sticks. I was told to remove the 4th small
stick to improve performance.

On Oct 15, 11:51 pm, "Tina K."  wrote:
> On 2011/10/15 21:11, Brielle Bruns wrote:
>
> > Sticks of ram are done in pairs if they use interleaving to improve
> > performance.  There's no such thing as triple or quad (unless its
> > something non-standard and obscure).  4 sticks is basically 2 banks of 2
> > interleaved sticks.
>
> My un-educated internet research revealed that three identical sticks
> ran faster than two, and four sticks ran inbetween two & three stick
> speeds. Don't remember the url of the test unfortunately.
>
> A Google search for "triple channel ram" returns over 1,000,000 results
> that seem to say that there is such a thing as triple channel memory, I
> believe that is what is indicated by the DDR3 designation.
>
> 
>
> Tina
>
> --
>
> HP Presario 2.8GHz Celeron D 2GB RAM Onboard graphics XP Pro
>
> iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11
>
> PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8
>
> Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.7

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

On Oct 16, 2011, at 10:14 AM, Kris Tilford wrote:

>>>> John Carmonne wrote:
>>> 
>>>> I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.
>>> 
>>> On Oct 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kris Milford wrote:
> 
>>> We may have discussed this before, but I think this is the model that you 
>>> can upgrade to the 2010 firmware and significantly increase the bus if you 
>>> get faster RAM? I think this would be worthwhile, the faster RAM is 
>>> probably cheaper than what you're using now, and you'd be ready for a CPU 
>>> upgrade if you ever felt it was necessary. See this:
>>> 
>>> <http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2011/05/firmware-hack-can-transform-a-2009-mac-pro-into-a-12-core-monster.ars>
> 
> On Oct 16, 2011, at 11:07 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>> This looks like a very interesting project and after reading the piece I'm 
>> trying to find the download for this modification but I'm not having any 
>> luck?
> 
> It's probably here, you'll need to register to see the download link:
> <http://forum.netkas.org/index.php/topic,852.0.html>
> 
>> Also is the RAM speed issue of concern to me?
> 
> Probably not.
> 
> 1066 to 1333 is a greater than 30% speed bump, BUT, it requires the CPU 
> upgrade in order to get this RAM speed bump. The CPU communicates with the 
> RAM directly, and the speed is set by the CPU, so there's no need to get 
> faster RAM until you get faster Windmere CPUs. For that matter, it's probably 
> not worth doing this firmware update unless you're going to replace both the 
> RAM & CPUs because otherwise the advantage would be very minimal (audio out 
> fix perhaps?) and the drawbacks large (your install DVDs don't work any 
> longer).
> 

Ok thanks, now as for my original question will mixing ECC with non ECC RAM 
using Final Cut Pro and CS5 particularly cause me problems?

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA 
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem







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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Tina K.]

On 2011/10/15 23:38, Brielle Bruns wrote:

DDR3 means 'double data rate type three'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

It primarily means its an evolution of DDR2 and transfers data 2x as
fast as DDR2.


Thank you for the clarification, sometimes I am a little bit dyslexic.

:-)


Tina

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Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.7

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Kris Tilford]

John Carmonne wrote:



I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.


On Oct 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kris Milford wrote:


We may have discussed this before, but I think this is the model  
that you can upgrade to the 2010 firmware and significantly  
increase the bus if you get faster RAM? I think this would be  
worthwhile, the faster RAM is probably cheaper than what you're  
using now, and you'd be ready for a CPU upgrade if you ever felt it  
was necessary. See this:





On Oct 16, 2011, at 11:07 AM, John Carmonne wrote:

This looks like a very interesting project and after reading the  
piece I'm trying to find the download for this modification but I'm  
not having any luck?


It's probably here, you'll need to register to see the download link:



Also is the RAM speed issue of concern to me?


Probably not.

1066 to 1333 is a greater than 30% speed bump, BUT, it requires the  
CPU upgrade in order to get this RAM speed bump. The CPU communicates  
with the RAM directly, and the speed is set by the CPU, so there's no  
need to get faster RAM until you get faster Windmere CPUs. For that  
matter, it's probably not worth doing this firmware update unless  
you're going to replace both the RAM & CPUs because otherwise the  
advantage would be very minimal (audio out fix perhaps?) and the  
drawbacks large (your install DVDs don't work any longer).


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Re: non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

On Oct 16, 2011, at 9:21 AM, Jeffrey Engle wrote:

> 
> On Oct 16, 2011, at 9:07 AM, John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>>  Mostly I do a lot of burning DVD's and convert to MP4's Final Cut Pro in on 
>> the list also.
> 
> 
> I think a dual MDD will do that nicely:-)
> 
> Jeff Engle
> Kamiah, ID 83536
> 

Well, as nice as a MDD is, the only problem with that is Final Cut Pro requires 
Intel and 12 Gigs of RAM is recommended.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
Sent from my MBP





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Re: non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 8:00 PM, Kris Milford wrote:

> John Carmonne wrote:
> 
>> I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.
> 
> We may have discussed this before, but I think this is the model that you can 
> upgrade to the 2010 firmware and significantly increase the bus if you get 
> faster RAM? I think this would be worthwhile, the faster RAM is probably 
> cheaper than what you're using now, and you'd be ready for a CPU upgrade if 
> you ever felt it was necessary. See this:
> 
> 
> 

This looks like a very interesting project and after reading the piece I'm 
trying to find the download for this modification but I'm not having any luck? 
Also is the RAM speed issue of concern to me? Mostly I do a lot of burning 
DVD's and convert to MP4's Final Cut Pro in on the list also.

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
Sent from my MBP





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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Jeffrey Engle]

On Oct 16, 2011, at 9:07 AM, John Carmonne wrote:

 Mostly I do a lot of burning DVD's and convert to MP4's Final Cut  
Pro in on the list also.



I think a dual MDD will do that nicely:-)

Jeff Engle
Kamiah, ID 83536

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Brielle Bruns]

On 10/15/11 10:08 PM, John Carmonne wrote:



Mixing ECC and non ECC, when its actually possible, doesn't cause
instability.It just means that the ECC stick won't use the ECC
capabilities if its on the same bank as the non-ecc.




Is there a rule here as to what type of application needs ECC RAM?





In the past, general rule of thumb was server motherboards and high end 
workstations.  These days, ECC is in alot of high end desktop/gaming 
motherboards as well as server boards.


However, in some cases, ECC ram will work fine in a non-ECC system.  Not 
guaranteed though - and in alot of cases, non-ECC in a server system 
will cause the bios to complain or just not boot.


Alot of the MCHs that the vendors use during the DDR era were...  for 
lack of a better word, a hit or miss when it came to RAM types.  A prime 
example was the Intel 8xx series that in some systems would work fine 
with PC2700, but not PC3200 even though they should be technically 
compatible.



In the end, it comes down to, are you willing to spend a few extra bucks 
and a slight slowdown on the RAM's performance for the ability to 
gracefully recover from memory errors without it bringing down the whole 
system?  If your system can use ECC, then IMHO, its worth it.  If your 
system is mission critical, then yes, you really should be using ECC.




--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Brielle Bruns]

On 10/15/11 9:51 PM, Tina K. wrote:


My un-educated internet research revealed that three identical sticks
ran faster than two, and four sticks ran inbetween two & three stick
speeds. Don't remember the url of the test unfortunately.

A Google search for "triple channel ram" returns over 1,000,000 results
that seem to say that there is such a thing as triple channel memory, I
believe that is what is indicated by the DDR3 designation.





DDR3 means 'double data rate type three'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DDR3_SDRAM

It primarily means its an evolution of DDR2 and transfers data 2x as 
fast as DDR2.


But yes, there appears to be triple channel memory, which is a newer 
technology.  I've not personally come across any boards with this 
feature, since it seems to currently be in really high end recent boards 
(core i7 et al).


So, yes, I stand corrected.  :)






--
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The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 8:11 PM, Brielle Bruns wrote:


On 10/15/11 7:44 PM, Tina K. wrote:

On 2011/10/14 18:52, John Carmonne wrote:

Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any
problems? The ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to
keep down the cost.
I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.




Sticks of ram are done in pairs if they use interleaving to improve  
performance.  There's no such thing as triple or quad (unless its  
something non-standard and obscure).  4 sticks is basically 2 banks  
of 2 interleaved sticks.



Mixing ECC and non ECC, when its actually possible, doesn't cause  
instability.  It just means that the ECC stick won't use the ECC  
capabilities if its on the same bank as the non-ecc.





Is there a rule here as to what type of application needs ECC RAM?


JOHN CARMONNE
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
From TiBook 867




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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Tina K.]

On 2011/10/15 21:11, Brielle Bruns wrote:

Sticks of ram are done in pairs if they use interleaving to improve
performance.  There's no such thing as triple or quad (unless its
something non-standard and obscure).  4 sticks is basically 2 banks of 2
interleaved sticks.


My un-educated internet research revealed that three identical sticks 
ran faster than two, and four sticks ran inbetween two & three stick 
speeds. Don't remember the url of the test unfortunately.


A Google search for "triple channel ram" returns over 1,000,000 results 
that seem to say that there is such a thing as triple channel memory, I 
believe that is what is indicated by the DDR3 designation.





Tina

--

HP Presario 2.8GHz Celeron D 2GB RAM Onboard graphics XP Pro

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11

PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8

Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.7

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Brielle Bruns]

On 10/15/11 7:44 PM, Tina K. wrote:

On 2011/10/14 18:52, John Carmonne wrote:

Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any
problems? The ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to
keep down the cost.
I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.


Whether Non-ECC memory works or not, mixing ECC & Non-ECC doesn't sound
like a stable set-up.

Keep in mind, if you put in three matching sticks it will run in
triple-channel mode; two matching sticks will run in dual-channel mode,
and four matching sticks will run at a speed inbetween dual &
triple-channel.



Sticks of ram are done in pairs if they use interleaving to improve 
performance.  There's no such thing as triple or quad (unless its 
something non-standard and obscure).  4 sticks is basically 2 banks of 2 
interleaved sticks.



Mixing ECC and non ECC, when its actually possible, doesn't cause 
instability.  It just means that the ECC stick won't use the ECC 
capabilities if its on the same bank as the non-ecc.



--
Brielle Bruns
The Summit Open Source Development Group
http://www.sosdg.org/ http://www.ahbl.org

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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Kris Tilford]

John Carmonne wrote:


I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.


We may have discussed this before, but I think this is the model that  
you can upgrade to the 2010 firmware and significantly increase the  
bus if you get faster RAM? I think this would be worthwhile, the  
faster RAM is probably cheaper than what you're using now, and you'd  
be ready for a CPU upgrade if you ever felt it was necessary. See this:





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Re: non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

On Oct 15, 2011, at 6:44 PM, Tina K. wrote:

> On 2011/10/14 18:52, John Carmonne wrote:
>> Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any problems? The 
>> ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to keep down the cost.
>> I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.
> 
> Whether Non-ECC memory works or not, mixing ECC & Non-ECC doesn't sound like 
> a stable set-up.
> 
> Keep in mind, if you put in three matching sticks it will run in 
> triple-channel mode; two matching sticks will run in dual-channel mode, and 
> four matching sticks will run at a speed inbetween dual & triple-channel.
> 
> 
> Tina
> 
> -- 
Well I have four slots with two 2GB and two 1GB sticks and I want to increase 
with two 8GB sticks to give me 20 GB RAM and the non ECC is about 40% cheaper. 
i read all I can find about the ECC vs non ECC and it's pretty vague so I was 
hoping some one is doing it:-)

John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA 
MacPro 2.66 Quad Nehalem







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Re: non ECC RAM?

[Tina K.]

On 2011/10/14 18:52, John Carmonne wrote:

Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any problems? The 
ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to keep down the cost.
I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.


Whether Non-ECC memory works or not, mixing ECC & Non-ECC doesn't sound 
like a stable set-up.


Keep in mind, if you put in three matching sticks it will run in 
triple-channel mode; two matching sticks will run in dual-channel mode, 
and four matching sticks will run at a speed inbetween dual & 
triple-channel.



Tina

--

HP Presario 2.8GHz Celeron D 2GB RAM Onboard graphics XP Pro

iMac 20" USB 2 1.25GHz G4 2GB RAM GeForceFX5200 Ultra 64MB VRAM 10.4.11

PB G4 15" HR-DLSD 1.67GHz G4 2GB RAM Radeon 9700 128MB VRAM 10.5.8

Mac Pro Mid-2010 2.8 GHz QC 6 GB RAM Radeon HD 5770 1GB VRAM 10.6.7

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non ECC RAM?

[John Carmonne]

Has anyone mixed non ECC RAM on a Mac PRO? If so was there any problems? The 
ECC RAM of coarse is more expensive and I'm trying to keep down the cost.
I have a 2009 2.66 Quad Nehalem.


John Carmonne
Yorba Linda CA
92886 USA
Sent from my MBP





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You received this message because you are a member of G-Group, a group for 
those using G3, G4, and G5 desktop Macs - with a particular focus on Power Macs.
The list FAQ is at http://lowendmac.com/lists/g-list.shtml and our netiquette 
guide is at http://www.lowendmac.com/lists/netiquette.shtml
To post to this group, send email to g3-5-list@googlegroups.com
For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/g3-5-list