I know when Aaron and I set out to design Interceptor, one item I had wanted to use was recorded speech from other fighters in your Interceptor wing and have that random chatter be something of a back ground event that would add to the realism of the game.
However, we considered our options and we ran up against several things that were brought up earlier. The legal issue was one that put us off honestly. Further, the variance in recording quality and volunteer commitment was another put off. Some of the recordings in the release copy were made by me with a very bad desk mike. This actually works to our advantage in this case because we were using static and other background noise to interfere with the recordings so that the quality issue was not bad. But it would become problematic in a different game environment. We were also trying to complete Interceptor by a personal deadline, and we were not sure we would get timely responses. In terms of Nick's suggestion of having one person to manage a volunteer team who is not primary coder, we are lucky that I could take on that role while Aaron coded, but that's not possible for every independent developer. I actually would like to use community volunteers in future, but for our first few games, we wanted more control, so we could make sure that what came out at the far end was what we had intended. Thomas touched on that, and it is a form of selfishness or pride, or at the minimum self-actualization. I think a volunteer open source type project could work very well if the developer went into it with open eyes and realized that using a large base of people to accomplish goals might not get all goals accomplished when and where and how he or she wanted. I know with us though, timing is an issue. Aaron lives on a farm, and he must help his family get in crops and do other farmy things. I work, and so I have to work around my schedule. That doesn't nix a volunteer element by any means, but it means that we have to have the right game, and the right game environment for it. Just sharing another small developer perspective. However, on the other side, both Swamp and Entombed used volunteer efforts did they not? We might learn something from that experience. Jeremy On 6/14/15, gamers-requ...@audyssey.org <gamers-requ...@audyssey.org> wrote: > Send Gamers mailing list submissions to > gamers@audyssey.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > gamers-requ...@audyssey.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > gamers-ow...@audyssey.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of Gamers digest..." > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. game engine (Marvin Hunkin) > 2. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (Thomas Ward) > 3. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (dark) > 4. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (Thomas Ward) > 5. Re: info AudioGames Game Engine (Nick Adamson) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 09:55:28 +0930 > From: "Marvin Hunkin" <startrekc...@gmail.com> > To: <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: [Audyssey] game engine > Message-ID: <001601d0a638$a0371c10$e0a55430$@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Hi. > > Well. > > Will look how to get the audio. > > A sighted friend is doing images and will record audio clips, that's the > way > to go, and also music background. > > Also how to get keyboard focus or keyboard short cuts or gestures. > > Any tips. > > Thanks. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 02:24:30 -0400 > From: Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine > Message-ID: > <caafbg10zsvkjwvav3rjcwcnmsf3zb4xb80bbq-xl3abn2+n...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Dark, > > You bring up a very good point, and to be honest I'm not quite sure > why the community hasn't been more active in supporting our developers > with sounds,music, scripts, whatever. It could be as simple as > developers haven't asked or developers have been closed to support > from outside help. > > One issue I need to bring up is while volunteer work is wonderful it > also can be a bit sticky from a legal point of view. Copyrights aren't > necessarily designed for content to freely be given away so there has > to be written contracts that turns a license or the sharing of a > license over to a developer else it can be legally entangling if the > owner of a specific sound, music, script, whatever later decides they > want exorcize their rights as the owner of said copyrighted material > and that puts the developer in a bit of a bind. So it is possible that > some developers and community designers are hesitant of collaborating > from some legal standpoint. > > That's only a guess of course, but there are reasons why things aren't > necessarily falling into place. It would be in our best interests to > find out those reasons and address them. > > Cheers! > > > On 6/13/15, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >> Hi Tom. >> >> While I'm sure your right as far as different developers go, one thing I >> will say is that games are not just made by developers. >> There are script writers, voice actors, sound designers. Even in the indi >> graphical games community a coder doesn't do all ttheir own graphics, >> music >> >> composition etc. One thing I always find a bit odd is the way that so >> many >> people in the audiogames community play around with sounds for fun, yet >> none >> >> of them put those tallents into sound design, or the way you have >> talented >> writers and actors and yet such people do not seem to be getting in touch >> with developers to assist for one reason or another. >> >> Indeed, swamp is a good example sinse I do know that while all the coding >> and large parts of the basic design are Aprones, he has had assistance >> from >> >> several people as far as creating sounds go. >> >> So, while I'm sure your right on collaboration with different developers, >> I >> >> do think there would be milage in developers handing at least some >> aspects >> of the production process over to other people. >> >> All the best, >> >> Dark. >> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >> vast >> >> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >> even >> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 12:31:47 +0100 > From: "dark" <d...@xgam.org> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine > Message-ID: <2454908AB2C44147BB47967810495F6C@ownere8ba8066c> > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > Hi Tom. > > I don't think it's a legal matter, or at least if it is most developers are > > pretty quiet about it being such. > > I suspect it's a combination of developers not asking, people not offering, > > and of course the problem that particularly with thiungs like voice acting, > > your dependent upon equipment quality, although that is less of a concern > these days than it used to be. > > I will also admit I've noticed developers are sometimes unwill to recognize > > their own short falls. > > Take paladin of the skies, the script really! could've done with a bit of a > > polish, just to remove some of the more clunky phrasing, make the characters > > appear less childish and all in all give a better experience, however I > don't think it occurred to Aaron that having a professional, or at least > volunteer script writer with some degree of writing cudos was something they > > needed. > > > All the best, > > Dark. > There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is vast > > and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than even > the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Thomas Ward" <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> > Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 7:24 AM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine > > >> Hi Dark, >> >> You bring up a very good point, and to be honest I'm not quite sure >> why the community hasn't been more active in supporting our developers >> with sounds,music, scripts, whatever. It could be as simple as >> developers haven't asked or developers have been closed to support >> from outside help. >> >> One issue I need to bring up is while volunteer work is wonderful it >> also can be a bit sticky from a legal point of view. Copyrights aren't >> necessarily designed for content to freely be given away so there has >> to be written contracts that turns a license or the sharing of a >> license over to a developer else it can be legally entangling if the >> owner of a specific sound, music, script, whatever later decides they >> want exorcize their rights as the owner of said copyrighted material >> and that puts the developer in a bit of a bind. So it is possible that >> some developers and community designers are hesitant of collaborating >> from some legal standpoint. >> >> That's only a guess of course, but there are reasons why things aren't >> necessarily falling into place. It would be in our best interests to >> find out those reasons and address them. >> >> Cheers! >> >> >> On 6/13/15, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >>> Hi Tom. >>> >>> While I'm sure your right as far as different developers go, one thing I >>> will say is that games are not just made by developers. >>> There are script writers, voice actors, sound designers. Even in the >>> indi >>> graphical games community a coder doesn't do all ttheir own graphics, >>> music >>> >>> composition etc. One thing I always find a bit odd is the way that so >>> many >>> people in the audiogames community play around with sounds for fun, yet >>> none >>> >>> of them put those tallents into sound design, or the way you have >>> talented >>> writers and actors and yet such people do not seem to be getting in >>> touch >>> with developers to assist for one reason or another. >>> >>> Indeed, swamp is a good example sinse I do know that while all the >>> coding >>> and large parts of the basic design are Aprones, he has had assistance >>> from >>> >>> several people as far as creating sounds go. >>> >>> So, while I'm sure your right on collaboration with different developers, >>> >>> I >>> >>> do think there would be milage in developers handing at least some >>> aspects >>> of the production process over to other people. >>> >>> All the best, >>> >>> Dark. >>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >>> vast >>> >>> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >>> even >>> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 08:26:50 -0400 > From: Thomas Ward <thomasward1...@gmail.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine > Message-ID: > <CAAfBG11MfAnxbaGjDxUj_yNm2Nse7nZATVcWwUimf=ojxga...@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi Dark, > > Yes, I think you have a definite point about developers perhaps not > being aware of their own shortcomings. > That would include even me at times. > > I suspect the reason is that a lot of developers get into writing > games because they have a very specific idea, dream, or concept for a > game. Something that appeals to them and they set out to create the > game as they imagine it. Unfortunately, like everyone the developer > may have shortcomings that makes the end result less than a quality > production, and because it is their dream game, their own idea, they > feel a bit embarrassed or even perhaps a bit sensitive about letting > someone else help work on it. I can confess to some of that myself. > > In short it is very easy for a developer to turn down any offers for > help out of some personal sense of wanting to do it all themselves. > Perhaps not recognizing or seeing their own shortcomings in the > process. As a result the final product is something below professional > standards just because the developer was lacking in a certain area and > was unable to foresee their own shortcomings in that regard. > > Cheers! > > > On 6/14/15, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >> Hi Tom. >> >> I don't think it's a legal matter, or at least if it is most developers >> are >> >> pretty quiet about it being such. >> >> I suspect it's a combination of developers not asking, people not >> offering, >> >> and of course the problem that particularly with thiungs like voice >> acting, >> >> your dependent upon equipment quality, although that is less of a concern >> these days than it used to be. >> >> I will also admit I've noticed developers are sometimes unwill to >> recognize >> >> their own short falls. >> >> Take paladin of the skies, the script really! could've done with a bit of >> a >> >> polish, just to remove some of the more clunky phrasing, make the >> characters >> >> appear less childish and all in all give a better experience, however I >> don't think it occurred to Aaron that having a professional, or at least >> volunteer script writer with some degree of writing cudos was something >> they >> >> needed. >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Dark. >> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >> vast >> >> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >> even >> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 14 Jun 2015 13:45:57 +0100 > From: Nick Adamson <n...@ndadamson.com> > To: Gamers Discussion list <gamers@audyssey.org> > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine > Message-ID: <45e0f9f8-b3fb-42db-88f1-1290c62ed...@ndadamson.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Hi dark. > There's a couple of factors at play. > As has already has been said, game development can take some time and > keeping volunteers interested in the medium to long term is quite difficult. > > Also following through on commitments can be an issue. As an example, when > developing Park Boss I asked for volunteers to record short bits of dialog, > a number of people contacted me and I sent scripts. That was the last I > heard from about a third of the volunteers. > Another thing that is a factor is the different recording quality that comes > back. This didn't matter too much for Park Boss but in other audio > environments could be noticeable and make the game feel disjointed > There are a number of things that make managing a team of volunteers harder > than employees. Things like wide spread locations, egos and commitment that > probably puts developers off. In the end the developers like my self are > very much code focussed and managing people takes away from coding time. > That's why I think a large scale, volunteer developed game would need > someone to act as a project manager who is not the main coder. > Just some thoughts. > Nick. > > > > >> On 14 Jun 2015, at 12:31, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >> >> Hi Tom. >> >> I don't think it's a legal matter, or at least if it is most developers >> are pretty quiet about it being such. >> >> I suspect it's a combination of developers not asking, people not >> offering, and of course the problem that particularly with thiungs like >> voice acting, your dependent upon equipment quality, although that is less >> of a concern these days than it used to be. >> >> I will also admit I've noticed developers are sometimes unwill to >> recognize their own short falls. >> >> Take paladin of the skies, the script really! could've done with a bit of >> a polish, just to remove some of the more clunky phrasing, make the >> characters appear less childish and all in all give a better experience, >> however I don't think it occurred to Aaron that having a professional, or >> at least volunteer script writer with some degree of writing cudos was >> something they needed. >> >> >> All the best, >> >> Dark. >> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >> vast and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >> even the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Thomas Ward" >> <thomasward1...@gmail.com> >> To: "Gamers Discussion list" <gamers@audyssey.org> >> Sent: Sunday, June 14, 2015 7:24 AM >> Subject: Re: [Audyssey] info AudioGames Game Engine >> >> >>> Hi Dark, >>> >>> You bring up a very good point, and to be honest I'm not quite sure >>> why the community hasn't been more active in supporting our developers >>> with sounds,music, scripts, whatever. It could be as simple as >>> developers haven't asked or developers have been closed to support >>> from outside help. >>> >>> One issue I need to bring up is while volunteer work is wonderful it >>> also can be a bit sticky from a legal point of view. Copyrights aren't >>> necessarily designed for content to freely be given away so there has >>> to be written contracts that turns a license or the sharing of a >>> license over to a developer else it can be legally entangling if the >>> owner of a specific sound, music, script, whatever later decides they >>> want exorcize their rights as the owner of said copyrighted material >>> and that puts the developer in a bit of a bind. So it is possible that >>> some developers and community designers are hesitant of collaborating >>> from some legal standpoint. >>> >>> That's only a guess of course, but there are reasons why things aren't >>> necessarily falling into place. It would be in our best interests to >>> find out those reasons and address them. >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >>> >>>> On 6/13/15, dark <d...@xgam.org> wrote: >>>> Hi Tom. >>>> >>>> While I'm sure your right as far as different developers go, one thing >>>> I >>>> will say is that games are not just made by developers. >>>> There are script writers, voice actors, sound designers. Even in the >>>> indi >>>> graphical games community a coder doesn't do all ttheir own graphics, >>>> music >>>> >>>> composition etc. One thing I always find a bit odd is the way that so >>>> many >>>> people in the audiogames community play around with sounds for fun, yet >>>> none >>>> >>>> of them put those tallents into sound design, or the way you have >>>> talented >>>> writers and actors and yet such people do not seem to be getting in >>>> touch >>>> with developers to assist for one reason or another. >>>> >>>> Indeed, swamp is a good example sinse I do know that while all the >>>> coding >>>> and large parts of the basic design are Aprones, he has had assistance >>>> from >>>> >>>> several people as far as creating sounds go. >>>> >>>> So, while I'm sure your right on collaboration with different >>>> developers, I >>>> >>>> do think there would be milage in developers handing at least some >>>> aspects >>>> of the production process over to other people. >>>> >>>> All the best, >>>> >>>> Dark. >>>> There is always more to know, more to see, more to learn. The world is >>>> vast >>>> >>>> and wondrous strange and there are more things benieth the stars than >>>> even >>>> the archmaesters of the citadel can dream. >>> >>> --- >>> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >>> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >>> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >>> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >>> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >>> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >>> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >>> list, >>> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the >> list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > ------------------------------ > > End of Gamers Digest, Vol 112, Issue 23 > *************************************** > -- In the fight between you and the world--back the world! Frank Zapa --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
