Re: [Audyssey] MOTA's second public beta
hmm just for the heck of it would it be possible even for a limited time to have the change log from beta 2 to reflect all the alphas/betas that came before just for history viewing? At 07:42 p.m. 1/03/2009, you wrote: Hi Charles and all, Yes, I have. I basically took down notes on every suggestion, bug report, and compiled them in a master list ranked as critical, suggestion, ideas, whatever. Obviously critical comes first, then good suggestions, and the future ideas are whenever I can or feel like getting to them. As far as private vs public this one will be a public release since most of the issues are patches, upgrades, and requests for Beta 1. If beta 2 resolves most of the issues with beta 1 private testers will then be able to test the new levels I am working on in the background plus the not so stable mouse input support. Charles Rivard wrote: Just out of curiosity, have you compiled the list of what changes you want to make in the second public beta, then work on them, one by one, seeing that the change doesn't screw something else farther down the lines of code, until the list has been finished? Also, will the beta testing team be working on the beta before it goes public? Thanks. --- If guns cause crime, pencils cause misspelled words. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] correction to last message
The game is called syrnia not syrbia and the website address is www.syrnia.com. Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] correction to last message
Hi Lindsay. It is unfortunately true that some online games are simply not accessible. For instance the other day I investigated a set of games made by the same company. the trouble was, all used flash panes to display grid maps of the game areas, and these used coloured hot spots rather than buttons so utterly screen reader inaccessible. It might be the case that this game you mention is one such. On the other hand, it might be simply a matter of unlabled images or the like which could be fixed comparatively easily with a litle help from the webmaster, as some of the Warriors 2 images were recently. The first thing to do is examine the game page. Does it containe unlabled images? how muc information in the game, --- eg statistics is actually labled? then, look at the players' guide, help faqs or the like. if it's mentioning arrows and viewing of images, or reference to huge amounts of info which is not screen reader accessible, then you might be on to a non-starter, ie, to make the game screen reader friendly would take so much rewriting that it would be practically unreasonable to ask. If on the other hand it is a simple problem of for instance unlabled images on the inventory screen, then you can contact the game developers and see how open they are to discussion. This is the methodology I've followed with investigating online games and it has tended to work at least some of the time. Good luck. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message From: Lindsay Cowell lind...@lindsaycowell.freeserve.co.uk To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: [Audyssey] correction to last message The game is called syrnia not syrbia and the website address is www.syrnia.com. Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] correction to last message
Hi. a quick glance over the instructions and requirements indicates that this is a heavily flash based, real time counter style game with many hot spots and images, so probably not screen reader accessible. sorry. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Lindsay Cowell lind...@lindsaycowell.freeserve.co.uk To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:10 AM Subject: [Audyssey] correction to last message The game is called syrnia not syrbia and the website address is www.syrnia.com. Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] possibly broadcasting a clip of MOTA on the BBC
Hey Tom, All makes sense. Unfortunately mine and Mani's schedules totally clash and he's only got a day left to get the feature done, so it doesn't look like I'll be demoing. Still looking fairly likely we can fit in a phone interview though so I'll be sure to plug mota, it's the perfect thing to talk about seeing as beta 2 will have dropped the day before the show goes out, it makes people aware that the accessible scene has a bit of hype and excitement approaching a release of a title. I'm trying to get a mate of mine to take the demoing spot to make sure it's done well, mota will be shown if he can fit it in. Scott On 3/1/09, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Scott, I think putting Mysteries of the Ancients on the air would be some great advertising. My only stipulation would be sure to let me know in advance when you go on so I can send you the latest available stable build to use on the broadcast. Beta 2 is coming out on Monday and it has several bug fixes, new features, etc that I want to get out to the public as soon as possible. Also while I am thinking about it if you go on the air with Mysteries of the Ancients to be sure to mention that this is currently a test release only and the final product will go on sale sometime in late spring or early summer of 2009. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] regarding accessible mainstream games
Michael... I have to agree that most attempts to gbreak the news of blind gamers to sighted people or blind people have ran me into blank walls. Ironically, the most success I've ever had came from the boards on the message board for the game which is probably the game that is the most widely-believed impossible to play. Rock band. I think the inclusion of colors would lead most sighted people to say no, go smack yourself... for lack of a better word, I don't want to play online with you over psn. But amazingly enough, I have found people from the boards who want to play rock band over the PSN online, and people who seriously and honestly admire me and the blind friends who play rock band. So, sometimes, results can be good. And the harmonix development team seems to be aware as well. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hello, Michael Said: Let's start off with advertising and awareness. To be blunt, it has proved extremely hard to get the word out. I tried all the time while I was editor of Audyssey and I have no doubt Ron has as well. Even when I took opportunities to approach people who you'd think would be predisposed to be receptive, I met largely with a blank wall. Tom Says: That has been my experience as well. There are places right here in Ohio such as the Cleveland Sight Center, the Ohio Vision Center, etc and one problem is they generally do training for business oriented applications such as Jaws, Window Eyes, Openbook, Microsoft Office, etc. While they like the idea of accessible games they aren't interested in stepping out of the bounds of business only education and introducing perspective blind computer users to accessible games. Not sure why the polacies are that way, but it is clear they don't want to mix business with entertainment. That leaves us without a very large contributer who is in the best position to spread the word. The problem isn't just with games either. I've offered to help train there instructers in Mac and Linux accessibility in case a perspective client should need that for work or school. Again I met with resistance, and all they seam interested in is the same training courses they've been doing for years. So communicating and introducing new things to these organizations can pose challenging for developers as well as quite frustrating to us who know about other alternatives and technologies that are not getting exposed to the blind community at large. Michael Said: Also, where are most of us going to find the money for widespread advertising? That in itself is a tremendous barrier. Tom Says: That is definitely the major problem. Whenever a major company like Activision, Edos, EA Games, etc comes out with a new game they can sspend thousands of dollars to get some television, radio, and news paper adds. The average one man operation doesn't have that kind of money to do it. Mass market add campaigns such as television, radio, and some major news papers are way out of the price range for most one man operations. As a result we have to think up cheaper alternatives to advertising, but if we don't get backing from blind organizations we are just stuck tredding water. Michael Said: Look at it another way. Even if I produced a stupendously good game which sold a thousand copies, I'd barely make what an average sighted programmer would consider to be a living. The economics of producing games are very tight. Even a majorly successful developer like Dave Greenwood can't make producing games accessible to blind people a fulltime job. Tom Says: I'd like to add that even big name game companies lose money on games too. They have a larger customer base which helps them make enough to carve out a living, but not every game they create is a big name seller, does well, or make the cut. Sometimes a game expected to do well turns out being labeled a flop when it reaches the mainstream public as has happened many times. For example, Edos Interactive flagshipproduct line, Tomb Raider, has been losing money as well as a customer base over the passed 5 years or so. Tomb Raider was a huge hit the first two, three, and possably the first four games, but now it is not the big name seller it once was. In fact, the latest installment, Tomb Raider Underworld, is being called a flop by game reviewers. Everyone agrees the graphics are stunning, the sound effects are extremely good, the music scoring is the best of all the games, but the lack of a good story line as well as technical details has ranked it much lower than the previous Tomb Raider games. Not to mention the U.S. econemy isn't in good shape so game sales aren't doing well right now to begin with. That kind of disappointing sales, low reviews, hurts the game company who tried to release a big selling title, and in Edos case recapture the glory they had 10 years ago when Tomb Raider was the rave. Point being is that even if you create a game, mass market it, there is no assurance it will do well. If Edos can't do it with a flagship product based on there number one game series how can we small timers hope to do better? Michael Said: You need to bring sighted people into the equasion. While they might find the idea of a sound-based game a novelty worth paying for, that interest just doesn't seem to last very long. I've found it pretty nearly impossible to interest sighted people in playing an audio game for very long at all. They simply need things to look at. Tom Says: That also has been my experience. I've tried getting my wife, mother, dad, etc interested playing this or that audio game with me and they have no desire to play it. My wife says, it is boring. That is really too bad as games like Jim Kitchen's Monopoly is a great time waister, but no graphics and my
Re: [Audyssey] ENTOMBED
Hello, I'm glad you like it. I still have a fair bit more to add for my next release. Please let me know any suggestions or bugs you find. Thanks! Jason On Sun, Mar 1, 2009 at 5:49 PM, Kellie and my lovable Lady J. pebbles...@sbcglobal.net wrote: Ok, I have got entombed working and I must say that so far I am liking where this is going. smiles Kellie and my lovable Lady J. Canine Welfare Technician/Resident adviser Guide Dogs for the Blind, Oregon campus www.guidedogs.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
No. I'm over here in Canada. Both Ron and I live in what's known as the Greater Toronto Area. Glad you found my remarks to be of assistance. If I can help in any other way, just ask. Michael Feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 www.blind-planet.com/content/personal-power A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://www.blind-planet.com/content/life-word-and-sound Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: Mani Djazmi i_am_a_s...@hotmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Hi Michael, many thanks for such a comprehensive reply. Do you live in England by any chance? Cheers Mani From: michael.f...@gmail.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Date: Fri, 27 Feb 2009 21:39:32 -0500 Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Hello Mani. I've been an intermittant listener of In Touch for years. A very well-done show indeed. Your arrival on this list is most timely. Tom Ward has just galvanised things with the release of his first public beta level of Mysteries of the Ancients. That's woken the list up for certain. Che Martin is another developer you'll definitely want to chat with. Quite a few of the people currently developing accessible games either had sight or have it. All of our developers have their own interesting stories. As the creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine, I got to know several of them over the years. People get into this for the passion and interest in what they do. We've certainly come a long way together since I published the first issue in 96. Ron Schamerhorn's the current editor and has a somewhat better grasp on the state of things these days. Life has pulled me in some different directions but I still keep an ear on things and try to help where I can. I'd be happy to answer any questions you might have about past developments. You'll find quite a range of oppinion here concerning what constitutes an accessible game. I'm happy to see that you've already gotten a few responses. There are plenty more to be had as the debate is one of long standing in this community. There is a stronger sense among sighted game developers these days regarding the use of sound as more than window dressing. That's going to eventually pay off for us but I don't believe we're anywhere near that point yet. Personally, I'm from the old school which says that a game can only be counted as accessible if blind people can truly play it as it was intended to be played and have access to all information. They shouldn't be handycapped in any way in terms of how far they can get with a game due to being blind. Sight brings an incredible amount of information very rapidly to a person. To be accessible, a great deal of thought must go into the sound of a game as well as the interface. That means I don't view arcade games designed for sighted people as technically accessible. We're just not privy to all the information. Playing something via shere memorisation and luck just doesn't count for me. Other people have fun doing that sort of thing. There was a fellow who is now world famous due to his skill in playing Mortal Combat.As a child, I used to be more in the if I can have fun with it, then it's accessible camp. My father would take me to arcades and we'd try to play the videogames together. He'd desperately try to describe things as fast as possible and I'd be in charge of the controls. It was certainly fun at the time and there was a good degree of cameradery. However, when you take all the bells and whistles away, I was just following my father's instructions as quickly as possible. I eventually tried a game on my own and found out just how much of the experience I was missing as I got obliterated due to having no idea of the game situation. When you reduce a game to purely responding to sound cues and memorization, it stops being at all the same kind of fun that sighted people enjoy. There are a number of tragic cases of games which are almost accessible and could easily have been made so to the benefit of all players whether sighted or blind. The most disappointing one during my editorship of Audyssey was the North American version of Who Wants to Be a Millionaire. The questions were printed onto the screen rather than read out loud as they are in the show and apparently in the UK version of the computer game. A very disappointingly inaccessible Christmas present for our family. Other games like the You Don't Know Jack series are again very close to being accessible. In fact, for the earlier games in that series, nearly all of the game was. There were some visual questions making reference to pictures though. Also, there were the jack attacks which flashed up printed clues and information
Re: [Audyssey] correction to last message
Yeah, its flash based, would need a complete remake to become accessible, which I pretty much garuntee the devs won't be willing to do. -- From: Lindsay Cowell lind...@lindsaycowell.freeserve.co.uk Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 1:10 AM To: gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] correction to last message The game is called syrnia not syrbia and the website address is www.syrnia.com. Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Audyssey babble report for February 2009
113 people posted 1176 messages. 187 From, Thomas Ward. 84 From, shaun everiss. 56 From, Charles Rivard. 53 From, Clement Chou. 48 From, Constantine. 48 From, Shadow Dragon. 43 From, Matheus. 34 From, Scott Chesworth. 31 From, dark. 31 From, william lomas. 26 From, Ron Schamerhorn. 24 From, Ken. 24 From, Yohandy. 23 From, Phil Vlasak. 20 From, Che. 20 From, Jim Kitchen. 20 From, Liam Erven. 19 From, Bryan Peterson. 17 From, Valiant8086. 14 From, michael maslo. 14 From, Orin. 12 From, Allan Thompson. 12 From, Lukás Hosnedl. 11 From, Hayri Tulumcu. 10 From, important. 10 From, rrhopkins2. 9 From, Michael Feir. 8 From, Gamers Chat Robot. 8 From, James Dietz. 8 From, Jason Allen. 8 From, Kai. 8 From, Kellie and my lovable Lady J.. 8 From, Pranav Lal. 8 From, Zachary Kline. 7 From, Jimmy Odin Kristoffersen. 7 From, oriol711. 6 From, Chris Hallsworth. 6 From, Darren Harris. 6 From, Draconis Entertainment. 6 From, James Howard. 6 From, John Bannick. 6 From, johnny tai. 6 From, lelia. 6 From, Ryan Conroy. 5 From, AudioGames.net. 5 From, Glenna Burgess. 5 From, Lindsay Cowell. 5 From, Mich. 5 From, Milos Przic. 4 From, alex wallis. 4 From, Allen. 4 From, Angellko21. 4 From, Casey Mathews. 4 From, Cory. 4 From, Greg. 4 From, James Homuth. 4 From, Kevin Weispfennig. 4 From, The Kolesar Brothers. 4 From, Wil James. 4 From, Yvonne Neubert. 4 From, Zachary Kline. 3 From, jicjaws12. 3 From, Raul A. Gallegos. 3 From, Robert Montowski. 3 From, Steady Goh. 3 From, Trenton Matthews. 3 From, Trouble. 2 From, Aiden Gardiner. 2 From, Andy. 2 From, Chris Hallsworth. 2 From, Dakotah Rickard. 2 From, Daniel Villalon. 2 From, dennis. 2 From, djc. 2 From, jaliya skye. 2 From, Jerry. 2 From, kelby carlson. 2 From, kerry. 2 From, louis. 2 From, Mani Djazmi. 2 From, Marsha. 2 From, Mauricio peixoto de Mattos Almeida. 2 From, Mike Reiser. 2 From, Nick Helms. 2 From, Ryan Smith. 2 From, Ryan Strunk. 2 From, Sylvester Thomas III. 2 From, will. 1 From, Blind Treasures. 1 From, Cary. 1 From, Casey D. Weeks. 1 From, christopher huby. 1 From, Cory Ballard. 1 From, daniel Miller. 1 From, Dean Masters. 1 From, Dennis Zwicker. 1 From, Gamers List Guidelines Robot. 1 From, Hannah. 1 From, Jose Lomeli. 1 From, Kelly Sapergia. 1 From, Kelvin Tan. 1 From, kev lyon. 1 From, Mike Maslo. 1 From, mmaslo1964. 1 From, Orhan Deniz. 1 From, Parham Doustdar. 1 From, Reinhard Stebner. 1 From, Richard. 1 From, Ryan Chou. 1 From, Stephen. 1 From, Terrence van Ettinger AKA Angus MacLaren. 1 From, The Dealing Bandet. 1 From, Willem. Archive file size 3734030 bytes Jim Check my web site for my free blind accessible pc dos and windows games. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Audyssey thread report for February 2009
There were 246 thread titles. Here are the top 50. mota demo 61. issue when using the view command in mota 40. New MOTA Trailer Released 37. Accessible Mainstream Games 29. MOTA 26. Soul Caliber 4 25. work around for realtech hd cards 24. about torches - Re: mota demo 21. Tomb Hunter Beta 1 released! 19. anyone played SFIV yet,and if so what did you think of it? 18. Avoiding attacks was: Mota demo, my thoughts 18. potential programmers, was : idea fora new game 18. modern mud 17. a game for pc, based on guitar hero and rock band. 16. Bingo 15. DirectX for Mac? 15. GMA Games unresponsive to licence requests 15. Street Fighter IV VS. MK versus DC universe 15. blue lacuna 14. tomb/vista and direct x 14. Mota Question 13. MOTA starting over when you die 13. Using braille displays with accessible games 12. any RPG Games? 11. frets on fire 11. Installing DirectX Updates 11. mota 11. podcast on the Wii 11. pokemon online RPG? 11. Score Servers reset 11. Super Egg Hunt V 1.2 11. mota potential glitch? 10. what's involved in making a game? 10. [MOTA] Weapons Firing Glitch 9. Calling all game designers 9. Entombed Error Message... 9. VIP scripting and roundtime for the beginner 9. Game Chat Reminder 8. If it ain't broke 8. new link 8. Safe online games 8. Would you pay $50 for a killer controller? 8. =?iso-8859-1?q?pokemon_online_RPG=3F?= 7. audyssey magazine 7. game recording of Mysteries of the Ancients 7. gamepads 7. question about torches in mota and getting overchasms 7. Rail Racing for speed junkies. was:Re: Would youpay$50for a killer controller? 7. samples of me playing guitar rage 7. stuck in vip mud 7. Jim Check my web site for my free blind accessible pc dos and windows games. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi Darren, I know that different people like different types of games, but so if someone had not done the card games, well then we wouldn't have them. And they may not be for you, but I do not believe that there are any other games like my last two titles, Homer on a Harley and Puppy 1. I hear from and am friends with many rehap counselors. I don't know of any better place to get the word out to about my games as they tell me that they turn their clients onto my games. BFN Jim Check my web site for my free blind accessible pc dos and windows games. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] possibly broadcasting a clip of MOTA on the BBC
Hi Scott, Well, if your friend will be doing the demoing I can send him a zip file of the latest build if he wants it. It seams fairly stable now,and I don't expect many changes between now and Monday. Main thing I am working on presently is the user's guide as well as fixing the setup so it will detect .NET and install if missing. Scott Chesworth wrote: Hey Tom, All makes sense. Unfortunately mine and Mani's schedules totally clash and he's only got a day left to get the feature done, so it doesn't look like I'll be demoing. Still looking fairly likely we can fit in a phone interview though so I'll be sure to plug mota, it's the perfect thing to talk about seeing as beta 2 will have dropped the day before the show goes out, it makes people aware that the accessible scene has a bit of hype and excitement approaching a release of a title. I'm trying to get a mate of mine to take the demoing spot to make sure it's done well, mota will be shown if he can fit it in. Scott --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Totally inaccessible game!
Um. If it's innaccessible, why post about it? On Mar 1, 2009, at 2:47 AM, Lindsay Cowell wrote: I have found a totally inaccessible online role playing game, it is at www.syrbia.com. The registration is accessible, but the rest of the game doesn't seem to be. For example there is no way for a blind person to find their inventory. Lindsay Cowell --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org . You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x
Well I'll hold off for the Beta 2, hey Tom would the November update to directx affect anything? thanks - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x Hi, Well, I think you might want to hold off for Beta 2 to come out. Various Vista compatibility issues have been resolveed in Beta 2 and assuming your .NET Framework and DirectX is current I don't foresee any more issues on Vista. HTH important wrote: Hello, I have now placed the direct X, in that Temp folder, after this I was requested to overide different files to run the direct x, june 2008; finally trying to run the game wasn't accomplished, I get the same message Tomb has stopped running, check online for a solution and close the program, and a close button.. What do you think? Thanks --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x
It's crazy, I just sent a message to you Tom about the november update, thanks for clearing up the directx issue, I was just reading what my performance link said I was running; 3D graphics only matter to the sighted world, 3D audio means more to me!! Here's my thing, I think the game is well done the trailer was great, I'd like to see how I make out in those Tombs. Thanks - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 12:05 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x Hi, The fact you have DirectX 10 is a bit misleading I am afraid. DirectX 10 only referes to the 3D graphics components of DirectX. The Audio, input, and other components for DirectX are still at 9.0C. To further complicate the issue for you there is a difference between DirectX and Managed DirectX. DirectX is the libraries for C++ based programs where Managed DirectX is the libraries now used for C-Sharp and Visual Basic .NET based programs. So just looking and saying I have DirectX 10 or directX 11 does not mean your DirectX is up to date or compatible with our games. If you want to get a compatible version which is up to date install the November DirectX 9 release. HTH important wrote: Indeed I do have 64 bit, interesting enough it also stated under performance that I have the directx 10 installed, so I'm thinking that the game should work just fine, I also checked with MS and there is a November directx I can install, didn't do it yet cause its 400 something MB; but the adventure continues.. Thanks --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x
Is your name Important? ? and why do you have all that nonsense behind your message? Try this; For issues concerning being a hater, go to www.I'mahater.com Regards, The National watch for Haters Alliance of America - Original Message - From: Orhan Deniz orhan.deni...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, February 28, 2009 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x Hi, dude, why is your name important? Best regards, Orhan Deniz E-mail: orhan.deni...@gmail.com MSN: orhan1...@hotmail.co.uk AIM and skype: kvp2008 Twitter: http://www.twitter.com/kvp2008 Blog: http://worldandother.wordpress.com last.fm profile! http://last.fm/user/orhandeniz1993 on Saturday, 28 February 2009, at 5:02:32 PM, important wrote: Gotcha, will re-install and give it a try.. Thanks - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, February 27, 2009 8:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] tomb/vista and direct x Hi, Any temperary directory will do. If you don't know the path to one just enter something like c:\temp into the edit box and you will b fine. Curse Microsoft for there setup installer as this is the number one complaint with installing DirectX. Smile. important wrote: Thanks, temp directory? like what? there is a browse button to choose from a list, can you explain a bit more Tom? Thanks --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Darren, You raise a good point: How many people outside of this little community actually know about audyssey and said games? We're 7-128 Software, a small company (more a small orchestra than a one-man band) that makes mainstream casual games that are accessible. We've just published our third annual Top 25 Web Sites for Gamers who are Blind. Audyssey.org is number 2 on that list. A number of Audyssey folks also have sites on that list. For three years we've been sending this list to a range of blind-related institutions (for example Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired), organizations, forums, blogs, and other media. And we offer free demos. And our ALERT project offers free help to educators using accessible games. And our detective games, puzzle games, and word games are (for the most part) not rehashes And guess what: we have the same problem that Thomas, Che, Liam, Jim, and the others do in making ourselves known. I'll bet you never heard of us. Publicity (which means advertising with minimal cost) is tough, really really tough. This year we're being much more aggressive with our publicity. Hopefully, this will make more people aware of Audyssey.org as well as ourselves. Oh. BTW. Not to critisize at all; but some of those rehashes are very popular in the blind gaming community. I suspect because guys like the above really know how to add their own gameness to their products. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software www.7128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hmmm an idea has been floating round my brain for days now. It seems that the mainstream games devs don't want to do accessible stuff for the blind because no cash in that market. I wander if its possible, that we can do it the other way. Ie get the games mod them or make them accessible, or whatever we need to do to interface if its at all possible. Then tell the companies about it. Then they can pay us for making the mod and not do it themselves or something. This came around mainly because in nz there is a law which although not probably inforcable states that anyone that pirates stuff gets disconnected, movies, mp3s, etc. In nz we don't have discribed movies, I have wandered what would happen if someone here broadcast described movies, downloaded from the net on tv. And then the origional previders of those movies could charge a small ammount for the use of those movies rather than they having to do it all. Its probable impossible and I am just talking through a hole in my backside but feel free to comment. At 04:21 a.m. 2/03/2009, you wrote: Darren, You raise a good point: How many people outside of this little community actually know about audyssey and said games? We're 7-128 Software, a small company (more a small orchestra than a one-man band) that makes mainstream casual games that are accessible. We've just published our third annual Top 25 Web Sites for Gamers who are Blind. Audyssey.org is number 2 on that list. A number of Audyssey folks also have sites on that list. For three years we've been sending this list to a range of blind-related institutions (for example Texas School for the Blind and Visually Impaired), organizations, forums, blogs, and other media. And we offer free demos. And our ALERT project offers free help to educators using accessible games. And our detective games, puzzle games, and word games are (for the most part) not rehashes And guess what: we have the same problem that Thomas, Che, Liam, Jim, and the others do in making ourselves known. I'll bet you never heard of us. Publicity (which means advertising with minimal cost) is tough, really really tough. This year we're being much more aggressive with our publicity. Hopefully, this will make more people aware of Audyssey.org as well as ourselves. Oh. BTW. Not to critisize at all; but some of those rehashes are very popular in the blind gaming community. I suspect because guys like the above really know how to add their own gameness to their products. John Bannick CTO 7-128 Software www.7128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Folks, Having now read the plethora of posts, its again obvious why Audyssey is a good place for developers to hang out. Lotsa good information and ideas. Here are some responses: 1. IGDA Thomas Weston, developer of Terraformers and co-founder of the Game Accessibility SIG, is taking a DVD full of accessible games and related stuff to GDC 2009. To my knowledge, he, Eleanor, and I are the only developers of blind accessible games who are members of GA SIG. Why couldnt Tom Ward, Jim, Liam, Che, and other developers join the IGDA, contribute their ideas to the GA SIG, and get their stuff on next years DVD? 2. Sighted Gamers find Purely Audio Games Boring If Michael Feirs own sighted fiancee cant get into audio only games, then there is a big clue there. I suspect that for a sighted gamer, not having eye candy is like having food without taste. 3. Getting Mainstream Companies to Make their Games Accessible Dark and I have had at least a positive response from one small European developer. I wrote a technical analysis of their user interface and Dark and I made suggestions as to how it could be made more accessible. They at least did not blow him off. Dark would have to respond as to whether they made the changes or to what extent he thinks it affected their later games. The point being that some smaller developers might be responsive to specific suggestions. Larger developers might be responsive via their own Modding features. In the Serious Games industry, Dooms been modded to teach firefighters how to work in burning buildings. Could someone ask a big company if they could make their modding capability such that it works with sound and can add the sound elements that would make a game accessible. BTW. That Doom exercise was done by Darks own university, Durham. 4. Market Size and Money The one segment of the blind community thats most likely to spend money on accessible games is parents of blind children. Note that children these days can be in their 20s or even 30s. Parents spend money on their kids. Some parents of blind kids are sighted and have decent incomes. Try the Yahoo Groups and similar venues. Weve seen posts where parents have asked where they can get accessible games for their kids. Obviously, this applies to free games too (Jim gets mentioned there.) 5. Publicity Why cant Audyssey developers write articles for AbleGamers, GameForward, GameCritics, The Accessible Friends Network, the IGDA GA SIG blog, and other media that are eager for accessibility material? 6. Final Words Having just surveyed the deaf and the motion-impaired gaming communities, it is clear that the blind-accessible gaming community is far more developed. There are more media that discuss blind issues. There are more organizations and institutions that publicize blind accessible games. All that being said, thanks for a lot of good information and insight. Now I gotta get back to coding. John Bannick www.7128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi John To my knowledge, he, Eleanor, and I are the only developers of blind accessible games who are members of GA SIG. Sander and I have been GA-SIG / IGDA members since almost the beginning of the SIG and we've been into audio game development since 2000. I suspect that for a sighted gamer, not having eye candy is like having food without taste. Several years ago a Dutch MA student did a survey of how audio games are received by a sighted audience. One of the outcomes was that the platform on which the audio game is played is a key factor in the perception of the gamer. Many gamers found that, on a PC, they were missing visual feedback - it simply felt like half a game. But they also indicated that if they were to play audio games on devices like, say, mobile phones, they wouldn't feel they were missing feedback. Of course this was in a time when the iPhone was not yet released. Interesting detail is that there are already commercial interactive audio adventures for iPhone available (http://www.rtaudioadventures.com/Soultrapper.html), although not yet accessible due to a visual game input interface. More later, Richard - Original Message - From: John Bannick jbann...@7128.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 7:50 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Folks, Having now read the plethora of posts, it's again obvious why Audyssey is a good place for developers to hang out. Lotsa good information and ideas. Here are some responses: 1. IGDA Thomas Weston, developer of Terraformers and co-founder of the Game Accessibility SIG, is taking a DVD full of accessible games and related stuff to GDC 2009. To my knowledge, he, Eleanor, and I are the only developers of blind accessible games who are members of GA SIG. Why couldn't Tom Ward, Jim, Liam, Che, and other developers join the IGDA, contribute their ideas to the GA SIG, and get their stuff on next year's DVD? 2. Sighted Gamers find Purely Audio Games Boring If Michael Feir's own sighted fiancee can't get into audio only games, then there is a big clue there. I suspect that for a sighted gamer, not having eye candy is like having food without taste. 3. Getting Mainstream Companies to Make their Games Accessible Dark and I have had at least a positive response from one small European developer. I wrote a technical analysis of their user interface and Dark and I made suggestions as to how it could be made more accessible. They at least did not blow him off. Dark would have to respond as to whether they made the changes or to what extent he thinks it affected their later games. The point being that some smaller developers might be responsive to specific suggestions. Larger developers might be responsive via their own Modding features. In the Serious Games industry, Doom's been modded to teach firefighters how to work in burning buildings. Could someone ask a big company if they could make their modding capability such that it works with sound and can add the sound elements that would make a game accessible. BTW. That Doom exercise was done by Dark's own university, Durham. 4. Market Size and Money The one segment of the blind community that's most likely to spend money on accessible games is parents of blind children. Note that children these days can be in their 20's or even 30's. Parents spend money on their kids. Some parents of blind kids are sighted and have decent incomes. Try the Yahoo Groups and similar venues. We've seen posts where parents have asked where they can get accessible games for their kids. Obviously, this applies to free games too (Jim gets mentioned there.) 5. Publicity Why can't Audyssey developers write articles for AbleGamers, GameForward, GameCritics, The Accessible Friends Network, the IGDA GA SIG blog, and other media that are eager for accessibility material? 6. Final Words Having just surveyed the deaf and the motion-impaired gaming communities, it is clear that the blind-accessible gaming community is far more developed. There are more media that discuss blind issues. There are more organizations and institutions that publicize blind accessible games. All that being said, thanks for a lot of good information and insight. Now I gotta get back to coding. John Bannick www.7128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
As I've said before, I see independent game developers as very much the future of game access. they are small enough both to have a dialogue with, and that the sales of games to Vi gamers can actually make a difference to them. While it would be fantastic if the likes of midway, Capcom or nintendo were to include access features, I'm not certain with their high turn over of produced games, and their need to sell literally millions of copies that it would be from a purely capitalistic point of view worth their while. Of course this isn't to say that I think the efforts of Igda etc shouldn't be directed at those companies just that I'd be more surprised if something came of it. From the independent games point of view, while I appreciate the findings of 7-128 on the number of website actually devoted to gaming for the motion or hearing impared, it does seem that the issues involved are much more well known, sinse independent games like retroremakes and the indi games showcase have accessibility guidelines and sections which focus exclusively upon those areas but have litle to no mention of sound access at all. While I don't doubt the findings of the servay, it appears from the experience i've had that Vi access is less known about in general by the vast majority of independent games developers than other forms of access, - which probably explains the larger amount of specialized resources available. Obviously as with most of these sorts of findings though it's dependent upon where you look, and it might just be I've stumbled upon the few handy resources available in this area. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: John Bannick jbann...@7128.com To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 6:50 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Folks, Having now read the plethora of posts, it's again obvious why Audyssey is a good place for developers to hang out. Lotsa good information and ideas. Here are some responses: 1. IGDA Thomas Weston, developer of Terraformers and co-founder of the Game Accessibility SIG, is taking a DVD full of accessible games and related stuff to GDC 2009. To my knowledge, he, Eleanor, and I are the only developers of blind accessible games who are members of GA SIG. Why couldn't Tom Ward, Jim, Liam, Che, and other developers join the IGDA, contribute their ideas to the GA SIG, and get their stuff on next year's DVD? 2. Sighted Gamers find Purely Audio Games Boring If Michael Feir's own sighted fiancee can't get into audio only games, then there is a big clue there. I suspect that for a sighted gamer, not having eye candy is like having food without taste. 3. Getting Mainstream Companies to Make their Games Accessible Dark and I have had at least a positive response from one small European developer. I wrote a technical analysis of their user interface and Dark and I made suggestions as to how it could be made more accessible. They at least did not blow him off. Dark would have to respond as to whether they made the changes or to what extent he thinks it affected their later games. The point being that some smaller developers might be responsive to specific suggestions. Larger developers might be responsive via their own Modding features. In the Serious Games industry, Doom's been modded to teach firefighters how to work in burning buildings. Could someone ask a big company if they could make their modding capability such that it works with sound and can add the sound elements that would make a game accessible. BTW. That Doom exercise was done by Dark's own university, Durham. 4. Market Size and Money The one segment of the blind community that's most likely to spend money on accessible games is parents of blind children. Note that children these days can be in their 20's or even 30's. Parents spend money on their kids. Some parents of blind kids are sighted and have decent incomes. Try the Yahoo Groups and similar venues. We've seen posts where parents have asked where they can get accessible games for their kids. Obviously, this applies to free games too (Jim gets mentioned there.) 5. Publicity Why can't Audyssey developers write articles for AbleGamers, GameForward, GameCritics, The Accessible Friends Network, the IGDA GA SIG blog, and other media that are eager for accessibility material? 6. Final Words Having just surveyed the deaf and the motion-impaired gaming communities, it is clear that the blind-accessible gaming community is far more developed. There are more media that discuss blind issues. There are more organizations and institutions that publicize blind accessible games. All that being said, thanks for a lot of good information and insight. Now I gotta get back to coding. John Bannick www.7128.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your
[Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Richard, Oops! You are so right. You and Sander have been doing audio games a lot longer than I have. It's probably because I associate you both with academia rather than industry. And, being as myopic as anyone, I think only of industry when I think developer. My bad. Your comment on the medium being the message is enlightening. At our recent Boston Visually Impaired and Blind Users Group meeting, some device was demonstrated that, among other things, spoke stories. It had no screen. I didn't feel any lack of visuals in that context. So maybe if an audio game were played on such a device, then a sighted person could play along with a blind person and not feel such a lack. Dark, Count me among those who know very little about VI specific issues. Velu and you have provided some good information, but I just haven't had the time yet to even begin there. You said you've stumbled upon the few handy resources available in this area Speak, pal. If you know of any resources I haven't mentioned somewhere in our discourses, please let me know. BTW. One disadvantage the motion-impaired community has is that it seems very fragmented among the various specific disabilities: MS, MD, CP, spinal injuries, etc. As opposed to the blind community, which seems much more concentrated. With respect to the influence of the IGDA or individuals on larger companies. Mark Barlet, who's a member and runs AbleGamers, seems to have had some positive affect on one or more of the larger developers in their deafness and motion-impaired access. I do believe that persistence can pay off. John --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] possible solution for the directx issues people are having.
Just wondering if any of you have tried using the directx installer found on Microsoft's sight? It's a tiny file that's supposed to download and update your directx components automatically. I've tried it in the past but I haven't tried it recently. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Installing DirectX Updates
-Thomas, See the programme edsharp from www.empowermentzone.com/edsetup.exe. This programme uses a free installer, is open source and does chec for updates. Is this the kind of functionality you are looking for? Pranav --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Installing DirectX Updates
Hi, Thanks. Actually, I did manage to get some help from the Inno Setup guys and it now detects the .NET Framework version and downloads the setup file from my server if needed. Still working on the DirectX angle, but I am getting the installer upgraded to do what I need it to do. Smile. Pranav Lal wrote: -Thomas, See the programme edsharp from www.empowermentzone.com/edsetup.exe. This programme uses a free installer, is open source and does chec for updates. Is this the kind of functionality you are looking for? Pranav --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] possible solution for the directx issues people are having.
Hi Yohandy, Actually, we have already switched over to the DirectX bootstrapper program you mentioned. It is small enough to ship with our games and link an icon to it for upgrades. We May ven intigrate it into a future install. Yohandy wrote: Just wondering if any of you have tried using the directx installer found on Microsoft's sight? It's a tiny file that's supposed to download and update your directx components automatically. I've tried it in the past but I haven't tried it recently. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi Dark, Yeah, I have to agree it will begin with indipendant markets first. Smaller developers are more open to new ideas and suggestions then the mainstream big larger corperations. I can remember last year me and another person contacted Sony about possably adding voice output to the menus and various other access improvements for the platform. Unfortunately, we never got passed the low level guys in the customer service department. All we got for our multiple e-mails is thank you for your suggestion, we can not disclose future plans for the Playstation, they don't allow their developers to speak to the public about new feature ideas, and basically get lost. Really quite sad because we can't even have a reasonable discussion with these people about access issues because they have lots of middlemen who act important, talk important, and have 0 power at all. When you ask them to send you up the chain of command they give you the sorry, I am not alloud to do that, speal. So we are really screwed by there internal polacies as muchas anything else. I suppose if someone got on talk radio, a television show, put an article in the paper about the waySony was treating accessibility they might crawl out of the woodwork claiming total ignorance. In a since they'd be telling the truth since they put the middlemen there to deflect you and I from talking to them one on one so nothing we say ever gets braught to their attention. I'm sorry to say I know of no other way to get there attention than by sticking there face in it by making it a public media issue, or taking them to court and performing a class action law suit. Neither way will make them any more willing to talk, and will make them angry if nothing else. One reason I support Sryth is I can have a one on one dialog with the developer. Get to know him, and he listens when I have an idea, comment, or suggestion. Even if he never takes my input at least I feel better knowing I was heard. Not so with Sony or the other big companies. they blow you off without a backwards glance. As if you were a pesky fly or something. dark wrote: As I've said before, I see independent game developers as very much the future of game access. they are small enough both to have a dialogue with, and that the sales of games to Vi gamers can actually make a difference to them. While it would be fantastic if the likes of midway, Capcom or nintendo were to include access features, I'm not certain with their high turn over of produced games, and their need to sell literally millions of copies that it would be from a purely capitalistic point of view worth their while. Of course this isn't to say that I think the efforts of Igda etc shouldn't be directed at those companies just that I'd be more surprised if something came of it. From the independent games point of view, while I appreciate the findings of 7-128 on the number of website actually devoted to gaming for the motion or hearing impared, it does seem that the issues involved are much more well known, sinse independent games like retroremakes and the indi games showcase have accessibility guidelines and sections which focus exclusively upon those areas but have litle to no mention of sound access at all. While I don't doubt the findings of the servay, it appears from the experience i've had that Vi access is less known about in general by the vast majority of independent games developers than other forms of access, - which probably explains the larger amount of specialized resources available. Obviously as with most of these sorts of findings though it's dependent upon where you look, and it might just be I've stumbled upon the few handy resources available in this area. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
This is the corporate world. To me, the phrase, corporate logic is a total oxymoron. You cannot even get to a middle man because of the corporation's ridiculous policies, and nobody can explain the reasons those policies exist. You cannot ask those who might actually know the reasoning because the policies that are being followed prevent that. The people you can actually talk to can only say, I don't know. I only work here., or, even worse, as was in the case at the major credit card company I worked for for 8 years, I was not allowed, by corporate policy, to ever say that I didn't know. I was supposed to say stuff like, That's a good question. I'll look into it, and have someone call you back on it., knowing full well that I was not going to have someone else call them back. The company lost a lot of business because customers were not called back on a very regular basis, and they did not understand why, even though the phone reps told the managers exactly why. --- If guns cause crime, pencils cause misspelled words. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Hi Dark, Yeah, I have to agree it will begin with indipendant markets first. Smaller developers are more open to new ideas and suggestions then the mainstream big larger corperations. I can remember last year me and another person contacted Sony about possably adding voice output to the menus and various other access improvements for the platform. Unfortunately, we never got passed the low level guys in the customer service department. All we got for our multiple e-mails is thank you for your suggestion, we can not disclose future plans for the Playstation, they don't allow their developers to speak to the public about new feature ideas, and basically get lost. Really quite sad because we can't even have a reasonable discussion with these people about access issues because they have lots of middlemen who act important, talk important, and have 0 power at all. When you ask them to send you up the chain of command they give you the sorry, I am not alloud to do that, speal. So we are really screwed by there internal polacies as muchas anything else. I suppose if someone got on talk radio, a television show, put an article in the paper about the waySony was treating accessibility they might crawl out of the woodwork claiming total ignorance. In a since they'd be telling the truth since they put the middlemen there to deflect you and I from talking to them one on one so nothing we say ever gets braught to their attention. I'm sorry to say I know of no other way to get there attention than by sticking there face in it by making it a public media issue, or taking them to court and performing a class action law suit. Neither way will make them any more willing to talk, and will make them angry if nothing else. One reason I support Sryth is I can have a one on one dialog with the developer. Get to know him, and he listens when I have an idea, comment, or suggestion. Even if he never takes my input at least I feel better knowing I was heard. Not so with Sony or the other big companies. they blow you off without a backwards glance. As if you were a pesky fly or something. dark wrote: As I've said before, I see independent game developers as very much the future of game access. they are small enough both to have a dialogue with, and that the sales of games to Vi gamers can actually make a difference to them. While it would be fantastic if the likes of midway, Capcom or nintendo were to include access features, I'm not certain with their high turn over of produced games, and their need to sell literally millions of copies that it would be from a purely capitalistic point of view worth their while. Of course this isn't to say that I think the efforts of Igda etc shouldn't be directed at those companies just that I'd be more surprised if something came of it. From the independent games point of view, while I appreciate the findings of 7-128 on the number of website actually devoted to gaming for the motion or hearing impared, it does seem that the issues involved are much more well known, sinse independent games like retroremakes and the indi games showcase have accessibility guidelines and sections which focus exclusively upon those areas but have litle to no mention of sound access at all. While I don't doubt the findings of the servay, it appears from the experience i've had that Vi access is less known about in general by the vast majority of independent games developers than other forms of access, - which probably explains the larger amount of specialized resources available. Obviously as with most of these sorts of findings though it's dependent upon where you look, and it might just be I've stumbled
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
to bad we can't just hack the stuff to be usefull, and really get their attention though its probably not going to get us closer. Truth is Unless we can get on the same tech level as them we will never win. Because we are blind we currently are not able to get there. I have friends interested in playing some games well 1 but no programmers. and nothing really big enough to make a difference. Hmm wander if the same thing would happen if we approached ms, maybe we could get somewhere, xna is free so we could make games, even if ms marketed those with access features we did or something. However I remember there was a major cost for that. At 05:33 p.m. 2/03/2009, you wrote: Hi Dark, Yeah, I have to agree it will begin with indipendant markets first. Smaller developers are more open to new ideas and suggestions then the mainstream big larger corperations. I can remember last year me and another person contacted Sony about possably adding voice output to the menus and various other access improvements for the platform. Unfortunately, we never got passed the low level guys in the customer service department. All we got for our multiple e-mails is thank you for your suggestion, we can not disclose future plans for the Playstation, they don't allow their developers to speak to the public about new feature ideas, and basically get lost. Really quite sad because we can't even have a reasonable discussion with these people about access issues because they have lots of middlemen who act important, talk important, and have 0 power at all. When you ask them to send you up the chain of command they give you the sorry, I am not alloud to do that, speal. So we are really screwed by there internal polacies as muchas anything else. I suppose if someone got on talk radio, a television show, put an article in the paper about the waySony was treating accessibility they might crawl out of the woodwork claiming total ignorance. In a since they'd be telling the truth since they put the middlemen there to deflect you and I from talking to them one on one so nothing we say ever gets braught to their attention. I'm sorry to say I know of no other way to get there attention than by sticking there face in it by making it a public media issue, or taking them to court and performing a class action law suit. Neither way will make the m any more willing to talk, and will make them angry if nothing else. One reason I support Sryth is I can have a one on one dialog with the developer. Get to know him, and he listens when I have an idea, comment, or suggestion. Even if he never takes my input at least I feel better knowing I was heard. Not so with Sony or the other big companies. they blow you off without a backwards glance. As if you were a pesky fly or something. dark wrote: As I've said before, I see independent game developers as very much the future of game access. they are small enough both to have a dialogue with, and that the sales of games to Vi gamers can actually make a difference to them. While it would be fantastic if the likes of midway, Capcom or nintendo were to include access features, I'm not certain with their high turn over of produced games, and their need to sell literally millions of copies that it would be from a purely capitalistic point of view worth their while. Of course this isn't to say that I think the efforts of Igda etc shouldn't be directed at those companies just that I'd be more surprised if something came of it. From the independent games point of view, while I appreciate the findings of 7-128 on the number of website actually devoted to gaming for the motion or hearing impared, it does seem that the issues involved are much more well known, sinse independent games like retroremakes and the indi games showcase have accessibility guidelines and sections which focus exclusively upon those areas but have litle to no mention of sound access at all. While I don't doubt the findings of the servay, it appears from the experience i've had that Vi access is less known about in general by the vast majority of independent games developers than other forms of access, - which probably explains the larger amount of specialized resources available. Obviously as with most of these sorts of findings though it's dependent upon where you look, and it might just be I've stumbled upon the few handy resources available in this area. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi Tom. Agreed on all counts, certainly my attempt contacting Capcom over low vision access issues and their huge amounts of 3D games (this was in the days before I discovered audio games existed), failed horribly. Nintendo were much more sympathetic when i spoke to them on the phone reguarding Wii menue access, however their organization was such that even though the chap I spoke to at Nintendo Uk would've liked to put things forward, there was no way even for him to get in touch with the main developement centers in the Us or Japan to progress the issue any further. I'd agree about Sryth, having had chats with the Gm over the last four years. I admit that these days I'm slightly less happy on some of the directions Sryth is taking, automating many processes such as travel and finding adventures which in the passed were freely explorable, and focusing heavily on stat based competitions betwene players, in fact the day Sryth goes full pvp is the day that Ekitrina hangs up her sword, but it is good that the game is both accessible and that the Gm is open to discussion. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, March 02, 2009 4:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Hi Dark, Yeah, I have to agree it will begin with indipendant markets first. Smaller developers are more open to new ideas and suggestions then the mainstream big larger corperations. I can remember last year me and another person contacted Sony about possably adding voice output to the menus and various other access improvements for the platform. Unfortunately, we never got passed the low level guys in the customer service department. All we got for our multiple e-mails is thank you for your suggestion, we can not disclose future plans for the Playstation, they don't allow their developers to speak to the public about new feature ideas, and basically get lost. Really quite sad because we can't even have a reasonable discussion with these people about access issues because they have lots of middlemen who act important, talk important, and have 0 power at all. When you ask them to send you up the chain of command they give you the sorry, I am not alloud to do that, speal. So we are really screwed by there internal polacies as muchas anything else. I suppose if someone got on talk radio, a television show, put an article in the paper about the waySony was treating accessibility they might crawl out of the woodwork claiming total ignorance. In a since they'd be telling the truth since they put the middlemen there to deflect you and I from talking to them one on one so nothing we say ever gets braught to their attention. I'm sorry to say I know of no other way to get there attention than by sticking there face in it by making it a public media issue, or taking them to court and performing a class action law suit. Neither way will make them any more willing to talk, and will make them angry if nothing else. One reason I support Sryth is I can have a one on one dialog with the developer. Get to know him, and he listens when I have an idea, comment, or suggestion. Even if he never takes my input at least I feel better knowing I was heard. Not so with Sony or the other big companies. they blow you off without a backwards glance. As if you were a pesky fly or something. dark wrote: As I've said before, I see independent game developers as very much the future of game access. they are small enough both to have a dialogue with, and that the sales of games to Vi gamers can actually make a difference to them. While it would be fantastic if the likes of midway, Capcom or nintendo were to include access features, I'm not certain with their high turn over of produced games, and their need to sell literally millions of copies that it would be from a purely capitalistic point of view worth their while. Of course this isn't to say that I think the efforts of Igda etc shouldn't be directed at those companies just that I'd be more surprised if something came of it. From the independent games point of view, while I appreciate the findings of 7-128 on the number of website actually devoted to gaming for the motion or hearing impared, it does seem that the issues involved are much more well known, sinse independent games like retroremakes and the indi games showcase have accessibility guidelines and sections which focus exclusively upon those areas but have litle to no mention of sound access at all. While I don't doubt the findings of the servay, it appears from the experience i've had that Vi access is less known about in general by the vast majority of independent games developers than other forms of access, - which probably explains the larger amount of specialized resources available. Obviously as with most of these sorts of
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi John, It is my belief that good accessibility always begins at the academic level. One thing we blind computer users face is young developers are just not taught how to create accessible software from day one. In the passed when i was enrolled at Wright State University they ran you through the basics, and out the door you go. There was no discussion how this or that application could be made accessible or a list of guidelines that should be met in order to insure a high level of accessibility. As a result most Windows applications are released and then adapted for our needs down the road through scripting, communication with the developers, etc. In other words fixing the problem after the fact. I am glad to say however that this is beginning to change. As you well know after Sun introduced the Java Swing toolkit accessibility has become a much higher priority for Java developers, and there is lots more documentation on access considerations than there were 10 years ago at this time. Apple has totally redesigned there Cocoa API for Mac OS so that accessibility is not an after thought but a core component of there user interface. That will pay off in the end because the Cocoa books I have read do at least cover accessibility considerations at some point. It also helps that voice over comes with Mac OS allowing developers to test the user interface before shipping said product. Ubuntu Linux also has adopted this design approach to accessibility and it is slowly but surely paying off. More and more Linux developers are becoming aware of access issues and are beginning to meet some level of accessibility out of the box now. It isn't perfect, but making access a core component brings it immediately to a developers attention. This idea of access first has been something Windows has lacked, and for that reason we have suffered for far too long. With games we find ourselves in the same boat. You can pick up any game programming book, and i can tell you at least 2/3 of the book is on graphics design and how to get the coolest eye candy. Very little is actually discussed about input and sound. You May get one possably two chapters on each. The rest is devoted to graphics, graphics, and more graphics. Perhaps if we want to really be successful we need to go to the source, the authors, teachers, and the people who influence a programmers early education. Contact the author who is writing the next Killer Games in C# and give him pointers about including Sapi 5 in his/her game examples to speak scores, maybe add more 3D audio, something to get him/her thinking about access issues. Then, a new game programmer will read and get ideas how he/she can help. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Things are getting better, gradually. This is encouraging. Thanks. --- If guns cause crime, pencils cause misspelled words. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: jbann...@7128.com; Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 9:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games Hi John, It is my belief that good accessibility always begins at the academic level. One thing we blind computer users face is young developers are just not taught how to create accessible software from day one. In the passed when i was enrolled at Wright State University they ran you through the basics, and out the door you go. There was no discussion how this or that application could be made accessible or a list of guidelines that should be met in order to insure a high level of accessibility. As a result most Windows applications are released and then adapted for our needs down the road through scripting, communication with the developers, etc. In other words fixing the problem after the fact. I am glad to say however that this is beginning to change. As you well know after Sun introduced the Java Swing toolkit accessibility has become a much higher priority for Java developers, and there is lots more documentation on access considerations than there were 10 years ago at this time. Apple has totally redesigned there Cocoa API for Mac OS so that accessibility is not an after thought but a core component of there user interface. That will pay off in the end because the Cocoa books I have read do at least cover accessibility considerations at some point. It also helps that voice over comes with Mac OS allowing developers to test the user interface before shipping said product. Ubuntu Linux also has adopted this design approach to accessibility and it is slowly but surely paying off. More and more Linux developers are becoming aware of access issues and are beginning to meet some level of accessibility out of the box now. It isn't perfect, but making access a core component brings it immediately to a developers attention. This idea of access first has been something Windows has lacked, and for that reason we have suffered for far too long. With games we find ourselves in the same boat. You can pick up any game programming book, and i can tell you at least 2/3 of the book is on graphics design and how to get the coolest eye candy. Very little is actually discussed about input and sound. You May get one possably two chapters on each. The rest is devoted to graphics, graphics, and more graphics. Perhaps if we want to really be successful we need to go to the source, the authors, teachers, and the people who influence a programmers early education. Contact the author who is writing the next Killer Games in C# and give him pointers about including Sapi 5 in his/her game examples to speak scores, maybe add more 3D audio, something to get him/her thinking about access issues. Then, a new game programmer will read and get ideas how he/she can help. HTH --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
That's sadly true. Another issue (much more in my end of research), does also seem to be that sinse the majority of Vi people are over the age of 65, the majority do not have that much interest in playing games. I personally tend to think this is the reason why there is an intigrated forum and discussion of access for motion impared or hereing impared, allbeit in a probably over generalized mana in places like retroremakes, and litle to no discussion of Vi access. There are proportionally more younger people with motor or hereing imparements than Vi. I one discussion on retroremakes about the Wii, where I stated that the mouse pointer Wii mote accessed menues both from a low vision and blind perspective were incredibly unhelpful when compared to the standard curser driven menues of the 16 and 32 bit consoles, where I was verbally told off rather sternly sinse people with Motor imparements were apparently finding the Wii mote accessed menues much more helpful, and that (in the minds of some members of that community), trumped low vision access. Of course this isn't to say that motor access isn't a highly important concern, and one which should distinctly be addressed, but I do wonder if this is why Vi access appears slightly more specialized when compared to other access issues, and whether This is also why more of a community has developed around Vi access issues than other forms of game access as your own survey showed. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Moderator Warning was tomb/vista and direct x
Hello, The below message is uncalled for. Please, consider this your first warning. Second time you will be placed on moderated status. important wrote: Is your name Important? ? and why do you have all that nonsense behind your message? Try this; For issues concerning being a hater, go to www.I'mahater.com Regards, The National watch for Haters Alliance of America --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi Shaun, The problem with that approach is the software developer still has to get the proper licensing from the company as well as pay out royalties for his or her version of the game. The only time i've seen anything remotely like this was Loki Game Studios. What Loki did is they would sublicense games like Quake, Half Life, Civilization, etc and then port them to Linux. Loki took in a certain percentage of the sales and the rest would go back into the company who owns the copyrights for that title. It was a great idea, but apparently they didn't make enough off the games to stay in business. Loki lasted for a couple of years and went belly up after porting 10 or 12 very popular games to linux. Point being if a game company couldn't do it for Linux users, which is a much larger base than the blind community, then an accessible game developer is starting off with some fairly poor odds of success. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] guitar rage tips and tricks
I want to give yall some tips and tricks on Guitar rage. I love this game! First, you CAN use it with JAWS. To read the screen, turn jaws cursor on like always and go through it. To move, do insert f3 then the up or down arrow. Second, you can't hear what Jaws is telling you, so go into the base folder, then to temas, then rock band, then media, and turn down the menu songs (menu_thetrees and one other one.) If your program says the wave files are the wrong length, just make sure you have the zip file for the game, just in case, then feel free to modify them anyway--no harm done... Also turn the livin' on a prayer song down 75%. Now if you've noticed, it sounds as if songs are being skipped when you arrow up and down--it plays a tune for a second, then a different one. These are just songs that play while the highlighting of the menu adjusts itself, not a glitch in the game. Second, go to musicas and turn the preview songs down to about a quarter of their present volume. Now, I don't know about the highlight features but I expect that the currently highlighted menu item is a different color, so you should be able to set Jaws up to pick out the right item. Now, I know that the program is in Portuguese, but with a little thought most of these things can be figured out--temas is teams, practicar is practice, and so on... so the top is online, then offline, (translated literally as not online,) then training, then exit I believe. Then the folder option comes up, just press enter unless you're using multiple folders for some strange reason. Then the difficulty level comes up, the topmost being easy, the bottom the hardest. Then, after you press enter there, you can choose from guitar, bass and drum in that order. Press enter. If you don't like a selection, or want to do something else, you can always hit escape. (JAWS users press insert f3 first.) Then you're in a new menu: resume, new song, and main menu from top to bottom. Finally, you can configure the program using the config.ini file in the base directory. Not clear on all the options, but the main things I want to point out here are full screen mode and the game keystrokes. Please do not use fullscreen mode! If you do, and need to get to something else, the game will not pause the song when you tab through the windows, so JAWS will get drowned out, so leave that at 0. Next, the keystrokes: these are ASCII values, so the first button (bt1,) is set to 65 which is the a key. My keys are mapped a s d f and g for the the guitar and bass keys, and z x c v b for the drum keys. L key is set to BtPower, and the space bar (32,) is set for the whammy. I leave the strum feature on, and use ascii 13, the enter key, for it. HTH Ken --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
hmmm. I suppose thats not good odds. oh well hopefully we will catch up soon. At 06:30 p.m. 2/03/2009, you wrote: Hi Shaun, The problem with that approach is the software developer still has to get the proper licensing from the company as well as pay out royalties for his or her version of the game. The only time i've seen anything remotely like this was Loki Game Studios. What Loki did is they would sublicense games like Quake, Half Life, Civilization, etc and then port them to Linux. Loki took in a certain percentage of the sales and the rest would go back into the company who owns the copyrights for that title. It was a great idea, but apparently they didn't make enough off the games to stay in business. Loki lasted for a couple of years and went belly up after porting 10 or 12 very popular games to linux. Point being if a game company couldn't do it for Linux users, which is a much larger base than the blind community, then an accessible game developer is starting off with some fairly poor odds of success. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
Hi Dark, Interesting. Well, for my own research I think it is also sometimes easier to adapt a game for certain access issues than others. Were I hearing impaired rather than blind I still could play all of my Atari 2600 games without any problems. I could not hear what is going on, butI could see the game and be able to play them without many access issues. In games like Elite Force where there is lots of dialog involved all the developer needs to do is have a dialog baloon pop up that displays the words the characters are saying. This is infinitely easier to put into a game than all of the things a blind gamer requires. Then, there is the perception of blindness in general. While in college I mixed with people with all kinds of disabilities. The hearing impared students thought being blind was infinitely worse than not being able to hear. The students in wheel chairs thought motor disabilities was better than being blind. When you come down to it the universal opinion was because I was blind I was more disabled than them. On the other hand I saw it as being better as i could hear things, touch things, smell things, and don't require ramps, special toilets, wide doorways, etc to get on with my life. However, if public opinion sees blindness being the worst then they will address other issues like motor and hearing disabilities first. dark wrote: That's sadly true. Another issue (much more in my end of research), does also seem to be that sinse the majority of Vi people are over the age of 65, the majority do not have that much interest in playing games. I personally tend to think this is the reason why there is an intigrated forum and discussion of access for motion impared or hereing impared, allbeit in a probably over generalized mana in places like retroremakes, and litle to no discussion of Vi access. There are proportionally more younger people with motor or hereing imparements than Vi. I one discussion on retroremakes about the Wii, where I stated that the mouse pointer Wii mote accessed menues both from a low vision and blind perspective were incredibly unhelpful when compared to the standard curser driven menues of the 16 and 32 bit consoles, where I was verbally told off rather sternly sinse people with Motor imparements were apparently finding the Wii mote accessed menues much more helpful, and that (in the minds of some members of that community), trumped low vision access. Of course this isn't to say that motor access isn't a highly important concern, and one which should distinctly be addressed, but I do wonder if this is why Vi access appears slightly more specialized when compared to other access issues, and whether This is also why more of a community has developed around Vi access issues than other forms of game access as your own survey showed. Beware the Grue! Dark. - --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games
If you want these games to be more accessible, you have to put up a front. The talking calculators we had in the 80s were horrible because they were for the blind until Sharp somehow got the idea that the sighted folks would really like to be able to punch buttons and hear the numbers so they didn't have to look up from their books or whatever when they were calculating--so if the games talked more, that would be less reading for a sighted community for whom reading would take away somewhat from the enwrapping qualities of the game. I especially wish that the WII had text to speech, because the Miis always move around, and in Wii sports, the only way to play the big boys is to become one yourself--get a lot of points. That's why in boxing, you can punch three or four times and knock the computer out in those first games. Get to pro though, and it's harder--but then, someone else in the family comes along, plays with a different character and then, you can't find which is your midi--especially with ten or twenty of them on the screen! I'd love it if Nintendo would think about these things, but they won't unless someone puts it in terms they can get--make it easier for the sighted to hear their scores--all those Wiis in nursing homes, who wants to have to put on glasses just to read the dang score! So that's how it has to be done--otherwise it'll never happen. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates-- $40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Sunday, March 01, 2009 11:48 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Accessible Mainstream Games to bad we can't just hack the stuff to be usefull, and really get their attention though its probably not going to get us closer. Truth is Unless we can get on the same tech level as them we will never win. Because we are blind we currently are not able to get there. I have friends interested in playing some games well 1 but no programmers. and nothing really big enough to make a difference. Hmm wander if the same thing would happen if we approached ms, maybe we could get somewhere, xna is free so we could make games, even if ms marketed those with access features we did or something. However I remember there was a major cost for that. At 05:33 p.m. 2/03/2009, you wrote: Hi Dark, Yeah, I have to agree it will begin with indipendant markets first. Smaller developers are more open to new ideas and suggestions then the mainstream big larger corperations. I can remember last year me and another person contacted Sony about possably adding voice output to the menus and various other access improvements for the platform. Unfortunately, we never got passed the low level guys in the customer service department. All we got for our multiple e-mails is thank you for your suggestion, we can not disclose future plans for the Playstation, they don't allow their developers to speak to the public about new feature ideas, and basically get lost. Really quite sad because we can't even have a reasonable discussion with these people about access issues because they have lots of middlemen who act important, talk important, and have 0 power at all. When you ask them to send you up the chain of command they give you the sorry, I am not alloud to do that, speal. So we are really screwed by there internal polacies as muchas anything else. I suppose if someone got on talk radio, a television show, put an article in the paper about the waySony was treating accessibility they might crawl out of the woodwork claiming total ignorance. In a since they'd be telling the truth since they put the middlemen there to deflect you and I from talking to them one on one so nothing we say ever gets braught to their attention. I'm sorry to say I know of no other way to get there attention than by sticking there face in it by making it a public media issue, or taking them to court and performing a class action law suit. Neither way will make the m any more willing to talk, and will make them angry if nothing else. One reason I support Sryth is I can have a one on one dialog with the developer. Get to know him, and he listens when I have an idea, comment, or suggestion. Even if he never takes my input at least I feel better knowing I was heard. Not so with Sony or the other big companies. they blow you off without a backwards glance. As if you were a pesky fly or something. dark wrote: As I've said before, I see
